Hello, and welcome to the show on Martin willis your host, and we
have an excellent guest for you this evening. I'm excited to have doctor Robert
Gross. We met out in Phoenix last February and he's a great guy.
Before our guest this evening, we have of course Alejandro Rojas with the UFO
updates, and we are live now. For those of you on YouTube,
you know that we changed our time and we are also on kg r A
Radio. I'm really excited about all the listeners over there. I hope you
enjoy the show. We're bringing you different guests every week. Last week was
a humdinger with three different guests. We generally have one guest, but we
may add some as we go along. You know, it just depends on
the circumstances, but anyway that may happen. I want to thank everyone that
supports the show. Anyone can do that and you can find that information over
on podcast ufo dot com. So we are live on Tuesday evenings at six
to eight Eastern Standard time on KGr A Radio, as I mentioned, and
also on YouTube. You can also watch that right on the website podcast UFO
dot Com. Over there, we have some blogs. We also have a
UFO Sightings page. People can post sightings anonymous. We have quite a few
of them over there, very interesting ones. So check that out when you
get a chance. And so that's enough babbling for me right now, Alejandro,
How you doing. I'm doing pretty well, doing a lot better today
than that. Yeah. I just remembered I owe the KGr station and apology
because I was sick yesterday. So I woke up like in the middle of
the night thinking, but yeah, and uh, doing well. Bit really
busy, um but u. And we'll be at alien Con anybody who's going
to be there in Pasadena this weekend. We're gonna be just promoting the conference
and selling some T shirts and stuff. So, oh great, that's gonna
be fun. Pasadena is always a great place. I go to a great
the Rose Bowl flea market there when I'm out there. It's really Yeah.
I haven't been there and I've heard it's gorgeous, so I'm really looking forward
to it. We're seeing at a really cool airbnb. Oh oh wow,
great, awesome. So what's going on for UFO news? UFO news,
there's not a whole lot. I mean, there's still that news that we've
been talking about the last couple of weeks about the Nimitsu foen count. Also
that information about you know, George Knapp shared about the government organization that did
all of that and kind of how they were looking into Skinwalker and everything.
So there's a lot of that going on still and otherwise not a whole lot
of new stuff. A couple new things that have been posted out there.
One Cheryl Costa did a story for the Syracuse New Times talking about how sightings
are are deteriorating. There's less and less sightings at least that move On is
getting. It's always difficult with those numbers because those numbers are very high level.
Doesn't those are cases before they're investigated. And in my you know,
examination of these where I watched these numbers on a monthly basis as well,
and I'd love to hear your opinion on it. Often it's due to awareness.
So the more UFO television shows there are out there, especially One's feature
during groups like move On, then the more UFO sightings that happen. And
really we haven't had a lot of UFO programs going on now, I know
and Bob may know this. There are a lot of production companies out there
looking to do something right, and I know History Channels working on a couple
of things, but nobody's pulled the trigger on anything, so we'll see what
happens. I think the hard part it is is everything's been done when it
comes to UFOs, so it's hard to look at to figure out a new
angle. But yeah, what do you think of the numbers? Yeah,
you know, I just I haven't really been paying a lot of times.
I do look at them, but I haven't noticed just lately, so I
guess I guess I haven't really paid that much attention to the actual numbers.
But they are down, and like blanket, like a blanket number is down.
Yeah, kind of, the overall number of sighting report worts is down.
But it's really difficult. So to qualify does that mean? You know?
I think people then think, oh, the phenomena has subsided. But
that's really hard to say. And you know, Bob, your guests can
speak to this. We both belong to this group called the Scientific Coalition for
Ecology, and it's hard to you know, it takes a lot of work
to qualify something as an unknown, and until you do that, you have
a strong number of unknowns, you're not really going to be able to gauge
the phenomena, you know, the mystery itself where the unknowns are strange.
Otherwise you're just kind of dealing with how the public deals with the situation.
And with these numbers, you often see that where there's more people, there's
more reports, which makes sense. Where there's more sunshine and better whether you
see more reports because people are outside and can see the sky more so.
I mean, so the way populations move have a lot to do with how
things are reported, but don't necessarily reflect on the phenomena itself, I think.
But there's sort of like a it's sort of in a way pop culture
influenced right very much, so it really is. I mean, when Hangar
one was out, you know, that Move On television show, they had
a huge increase in sighting reports. Now, let me ask you something.
Do you know if a part of me, do you know if Peter Davenport
was getting a lot of sighting reports as well? So was it just move
On? He has those trends. His trends are a little different, but
because he's not always featured. You know, they're featured on shows sometimes they're
featured on the same shows. Sometimes they are not, but yeah, you
can see that trend and if you ask him, he'll he'll he'll tell you
that as well. He gets different media attention, but he does get media
attention. So whenever he gets a story, let's say, in a large
media outlet, then he'll have an increase himself. So it's heavily influenced by
the media attention that these which makes sense, you know, the marketing,
the the awareness that people get that they exist. And you know when someone
watches a TV show and you know, someone like new work or move on
as mentioned, then they think, you know what, I had a sighting
a couple of years ago or five years ago or ten years ago or or
it even happens, you know what, I was there in that roswell thing.
So I'm going to report. I mean, that's how Kurt Russell,
h if you remember last year, reported and said, yeah he was a
part of the Phoenix Lights was from a television show. So that often produces
Yeah, a lot of reports. Now you mentioned earlier to some more on
the nimits, and I did see there's a lot going on. I know
there was some news. Let's see Fox News ran some thing with Nick Pope
and I forget the Yeah, yeah, so a lot is happening. Of
course, that started with the I team in George Napp that, you know,
getting Harry Reid to help out to find the documents, and I know
you've done a lot of work on that on the what's the name of the
website, the geek what is it? I have den of Geek. I
talk a story coming out this week at there. It's taking a long time
for them to get it out, just because you know, I take second
billing to the Sci Fi Industries Entertainment Industries News. So I have a story
on the nimets coming out, and then I have another longer story on the
program and its relation to Skinwalker Ranch and Bob Bigelow and that history which will
be coming out to probably in their magazine. But one interesting part to this
is that the SSE, the Society for Scientific Exploration, they've gotten some news,
especially by George Knapp recently, because last weekend they had their big conference
and part of their conference was John Alexander, who lives in Las Vegas and
was kind of the local host of the event. And then how put up
and help put up as a physicist who was involved with the big low organization,
the BASS and this a tip and a swap, these these different names
at the Pentagon project had so that was featured heavily at the conference. Or
John Alexander kind of took the higher level of view and then how put off
having you know, very intimate knowledge of the more recent investigations discussed that and
the Pentagon and that sort of stuff. I wish I could have been there
because I'm sure he shared information that he hasn't shared before. And I should
note that John Alexander, who is a retired Army intelligence he's worked in the
defense industry. He did work with Bigelow and skin Walker, and he was
instrumental in helping organize the whole thing early on years ago in the nineties.
Right, wow, I did. I did have a little back and forth
with George Knapp, try to get him to just drop in for a few
minutes, but he said, get back to me in the fall. He's
busy. He's so busy all the time. He is busy all the time.
I mean, there's sweeps. I spoke to him, I speak to
him periodically, and yeah, and his messages will be really short during sweeps
and stuff. But from what I understand, he's going he is going to
want to help to promote the Skinwalker documentary that Jeremy Corbell has just finished and
will be out on ituned soon and so and and a lot of it has
to do with him, because he wanted to make a documentary of all of
this early on, but he couldn't. He was asked not to, but
he had videotape. He had had gotten a lot of footage. So this
footage is now going to be part of Corbell's documentary and George Knapp is a
big part of that. So he's very excited that this footage is finally going
to get out, and so he's going to be promoting it. Yeah,
come the fall. Now, I know, I know that you had Jeremy
on recently. We had him on I don't know, several months ago.
But do you know exactly when that's going to be released in Is it only
on iTunes or other other venues? I don't know exactly when. All I've
heard is summer, and I believe that means very soon, in the next
month or two, it will be on iTunes. But from what I understand,
they haven't confirmed other distribution outlets, but they've gotten a lot of interest,
and essentially they're in a position where they get to pick and choose,
so there will be some other very large distribution outlets that they'll be that they'll
be coming through. I see. Okay, anything else going on. I
think that's about it. Well, I do appreciate as always, all hundred,
thanks so much, and we'll be back with you next week, right,
my pleasure, my friend. Yeah, we'll talk to you next week.
All right, okay, everyone, So our guest tonight is doctor Bob
Wenzel Gross. He's a semi retired I like that semi retired. I'm sort
of semi retired myself, but I work way too much, so I don't
know if I qualify for that. He's also a researcher, a writer,
presenter, an educator with He has two non fiction books out Connecting the Phenomena
is one, and I know he has also some white paper reports out there
as well. We're gonna be talking about all that, and welcome to the
show, Bob, Doctor Bob. I should say thank you Martin. It's
great to see you again, great to be here. Yeah, oh yeah,
yeah, we met in uh in February. And that was a lot
of fun, wasn't it. Yes, it was a terrific group, terrific
conference. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. So we're gonna can you kind of for
the person hearing you for the first time, can you give them your your
your basic background, and you know, actually what made you interested in this
topic overall? Well, be my professional involvement in the whole UFO phenomenon.
I can, I can go back forward, but I'll just start there because
I'm pretty old and and we don't have that much time. But if I'll
go back to nineteen eighty four, how does that sound? And good round
number? Yeah, Yes, that's not when I was born though, But
in nineteen eighty four, that's when I received my doc rip from Penn State.
And my major was in music education and my minor was in general studies.
And because my doctoral dissertation involved electronic music, I was actually doing a
lot of full blown scientific experiments back then, working on turning analog sound into
digital sound, which there really wasn't much as far as digital sound went back
in nineteen eighty four, and since I had a doctorate in music education,
I thought I'd put that into good use So in nineteen eighty five, I
decided I was going to write a children's musical, and I wanted to be
musical to be about something that was popular, and back in eighty five,
things like Battles and Out of Space and Terrestrials and Star Wars and the movies
ET and Star Track and Star Wars were popular. So I decided I was
going to write a musical about UFOs, and I thought that would really be
popular for young kids. So I looked around the Pennsylvania area and I located
a group from Pennsylvania. It was a clearinghouse known as the Pennsylvania Association for
the Study of the Unexplained, and I joined that organization I think it was
in April of nineteen eighty five, to learn as much as I could about
UFOs for my children's musical that I was writing. And that's what kind of
really kicked off my formal studies in you know, studying about the whole UFO
phenomena. Wow, And so did you really enjoy the organization? And I'm
trying to think, is that the one I'm trying to think of who the
the main person who send the study. He's been on the show, so
many times I was Stan Gordon. Yeah, that's him. Yeah, is
he part of that is he was at that time, back in nineteen eighty
four eighty five. Yes, And so that was the group I worked with
and started That's why I started learning and became a field investigator. And I
was with that group for a few years. And in nineteen eighty seven they
had a national it was a national UFO Information Week that PASSA as well as
moved on from Seguin, Texas. They sponsored it and they held this event
at the Greensburg Mall, which is in Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania. So I
attended that event, and to make a long story short, it was very
well attended. I'd say over a thousand, you know, maybe a couple
of thousand people attended this mall. And I actually when I was there and
the event was at the I think it was like the west end of the
mall, and I was walking around around the north end of the mall listening
in on people's conversations, and there was this group that was gathering at the
north end of the mall, far away from where the displays were, and
I kind of worked my way in to hear what was going on and what
it was where there were two witnesses describing what happened at the Kesburg case back
in nineteen sixty five, And that was the first time that I think witnesses
came forward. This was an eighty seven, so twenty two years later with
testimony about the Kexburg case. So I was like thrilled to hear all that.
Back in eighty five. I did happen to hear the Kexburg case on
Foldy on KATIEK radio. That's why I became kind of obsessed with the whole
Kexburg case. So really really got my heart popping to hear witnesses give testimony
about what happened that night on December ninth back in nineteen sixty five, the
Kexberg. So I was kind of hooked in the whole UFO phenomenon field at
that point. Wow. Now I know Stan Gordon that it's kind of like
his baby in a way, you know Kesburg. You know, I actually
had him on debating John Ventry along with someone else when it came to one
of the satellites. But you have a different you came up with a different
satellite that you think this could have been right am I getting that right?
You know? I see the Skype screen is frozen, and it looks like
our guest is frozen. So hanging everyone. I'm not sure I might have
to ring him back. Just hang in there if you would. Um let's
see all right, and let's see I'll add him to the call and see
what happened. Okay, So we did a test ahead of time. Everything
was good. Um, so we will just have to continue on. So
live listeners, thank you for hanging in here. And he is not picking
up in Skype, so not as of yet. He may he may call
back, so at this point. So the Kexburg case nineteen sixty five,
there were several witnesses. It's really, you know, quite amazing. This
thing shot across the sky and then it did some type of angle turn and
it was very bright and very low, and people were saying that appeared to
be moving along rather slowly with like a stream of fire behind it. So
it landed in the woods and I remember I think Stan Gordon, who were
mentioning earlier, was actually listening to the radio live. I'm hearing strange noises
there, doctor Bob, can you hear me on the side. We're gonna
have to hang up you sound. You're sounding very much like Alvin and the
Chipmunks. So we're going to hang up on your and try again. I'm
going to get you to start singing some Christmas songs here, all right,
so we'll try him again. He did come across visually, but that was
I'm going to keep that recording in. I like that. It's a very
alien sounding. So this thing crashes in a wooded area and there were some
eyewitnesses just coming back again. Let's see how he stuns. Doctor Bob,
can you hear me? I can hear you? Do you know what happened
on your end? Everything just went black? Yeah, it's definitely the government.
They always do that. That happened in the future. All right,
Well whatever, if you didn't do anything, I can't tell you not to
do it again. So yeah, it just everything just went totally black.
Wow. All right, So you're not up visually yet. So when things
like this happened, you know, I can't. It seems to me that
I asked you a question. Of course you didn't hear it. So we
were talking about you were getting interested in Kexburg, and also I started telling
the listening audience. Basically what happened there. I didn't really get into anything
much further than the thing doing is zig zag in the sky and crashing in
the woods. But do you want to just go over what you know about
that that story in particular, but the Kexburg incident started. Now I can
see myself by the way in the corner of the video, which I couldn't
before, So I don't know what that means. But yeah, you're not
un visual right now, which is fine. So this was in nineteen sixty
five and in Kexburg, Pennsylvania. What happened. It was around four forty
seven pm on December ninth, nineteen sixty five, and there were hundreds of
witnesses in several different states and including Canada. It basically saw this fireball coming
in in a southeasterly direction, and when the fireball got to about Ohio,
it slowed and it made a turn left and started heading towards Pennsylvania. And
when this fireball got between I think it was La Trollo, Pennsylvania and another
a little community, it made a right and started heading south and then when
it got south, it made a U turn and headed up. It landed
in Kesburg, and it made a semisoft landing in the woods in Kecksburg,
and right before it landed, it kind of morphed from a fireball into a
four pointed fiery star. And at that point when it was reported on the
kati Ka radio and Katika television, a lot of people started hearing about it,
and they started traveling out to Kesburg. Now, my parents wouldn't letting
me go out. It was only seventeen years old at the time and not
a very good driver, and they would not really travel fifty three miles in
their relatively new car out to Kesburg. But I thought the whole thing ended
right then and there. But so later on that evening there were quite a
few people who got there, some of the witnesses like that I heard in
nineteen eighty seven Gid testimony, there were groups of people that got into the
woods before the police and the army arrived, and they sought this object lying
in this in the woods in kind of a shallow riverbed or creek bed,
and it was an object that was a large acorn shaped object. It was
shiny gold and and it had a protubers on the front that some people reported
look like a burnt orange colored trash can. And also the object was giving
off really bright flashes. Well, it was there on the earth groud.
My guest is doctor Bob Gross, very excited to talk to him tonight and
the crash and what people were seeing. Now, Bob, So there were
people that actually ventured into deep into the woods where the sin crash right,
Yes, And the witnesses you spoke to or you heard speak at the mall
that evening, were any of them people that actually went into the woods.
Yes, according to what these two witnesses, and they were both gentlemen.
According to what I overheard that day at the mall, both of them actually
wandered into the woods right after the eject landed. But it appeared like they
were on opposite sides of the object. One the one male individual was by
himself and the other individual was with a group of friends. And they allegedly
had flash cameras with them. H I'd never heard that part, So did
they did? Were pictures taken now at that event in nineteen eighty seven?
Yes, the witness claimed that they were taking pictures of the object that fell,
And that witness claimed that the bright flashes that the first witness saw were
possibly coming from the flashbulbs on the cameras that he and his friends were using
that night. But as you know, like later on when I was doing
my research, their indications that there was a strobe light on the device on
the film bucket that was actually in the woods that night, so that also
would have been causing those bright arcing lights to appear. But one witness did
claim that he and his friends had snuck into the woods before the police and
the military got there, and they did have cameras with them, and they
took pictures of them. And this was probably again eighty seven might have been
this might have been the very first witnesses to ever testify about seeing something at
Kexburg that night. When these people were in there, there was the military
came right, yes, they now the military got there. It's a there's
a discrepancy is how quickly they got there. They got there pretty quickly after
the object that a semi soft landing in the woods, and allegedly they haulted
away, the military haulted away. So if this thing can be explained as
the satellite, you know, we're going to get more into that. Why
all the secrecy can you explain why that was the way, yes handled the
way it was. I can from my research in a couple of different ways.
The one thing is that there was a satellite program known as the Corona
satellite program that existed that time. At that time, it was top secret,
so no one knew anything about it. And that program existed from about
nineteen fifty nine to nineteen seventy two. And that program was a spy satellite
program where the satellites were launched mostly from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California,
and then they took photographs of places in Russia and China and so forth that
the United States was interested in. And that was a top secret program,
and that's one reason that they wouldn't they wouldn't tell anyone because these top secret
programs didn't become declassified until nineteen ninety six. I think it was not the
same go ahead, you have a question, no, no, no,
go ahead. At the same time I found out that they were the Air
Force and the CIA were co producers of the Corona program. At the same
time, I found out that Corona, some Corona satellites were being used to
test the radioactivity in the atmosphere because Russia, the United States, and China
we're exploding essentially atomic bombs in the atmosphere, and they were trying to keep
track of how heavy the radioactivity was getting. Now that's on two reasons they
could have been using that. Okay, now I think I heard you say
just a few minutes ago, the film bucket. I know that they used
to, you know, take the images vas satellite and drop the film.
This is not what you're thinking. This particular case was just a film bucket,
is it? Or is it? It was a film bucket, but
it was also the film buckets inside of a recovery vehicle. The recovery vehicle
was almost looks like a nose code. It's also a type of a capsule.
And the recovery vehicles have not only retro rockets, but they also have
stabilization jets and they can be steered. Okay, so that explains the case
of it taking a zig zag in the sky exactly. And so how how
did it come down though, and in such a you know, um,
you know, an auroral area, but still somewhere where it could have caused
a damage. Did something fail? I don't know that something failed there.
They did have a double parachute system, and uh, witnesses that heard the
recovery vehicle passing overhead about two hundred feet could hear it hissing, so it
was using its stabilization, that was using bottled type gas to power it as
well. Witnesses could hear it hissing, so that could have slowed it up.
And it also had a double parachute system which it would have deployed.
And that double parachute system had four like they were like explosives that were tied
to these devices that would have ejected the parachute out of the recovery vehicle.
So you had those two things going for it that could have slowed it down.
And also the trees that were the trees. Some of the trees were
damaged, but it could have gotten to that speed where it could have landed
without too much damage. So some of just posted in the message board,
which I think is a good question. So obviously, if the military showed
up there, they were tracking, they were tracking. What was going on
obviously is that so yes, sir, they had the bucket also had a
type of tracking device on it. It had an antenna and a tracking device
that was part of the film bucket itself, so that's how they could have
tracked it the whole time. Well, this is you know, so it
was definitely a UFO for the people that watched it because it was unidentified to
them. Yeah, and what about now, are there some people that are
just hanging on tightly to the scene being you know, either extraterrestrial or you
know, just a plane UFO unknown, or are people more or less coming
around to the idea that this was some type of satellite funny You should say
that because after I did my presentation at the International UFO Congress, I thought
there was going to be quite a few people bothered by the fact that I,
you know, and I had all the evidence because I had over four
hundred slides and so forth of the research that I did, and not one
person complained. In fact, several people thanked me, came up afterwards and
thanked me for solving that riddle so great, And even I had attorneys and
law professors coming up that day or the day after I presented, and everyone
said, you know, thank you for solving that that mystery. And you
know, up until a few years ago, I was always tossed between it
was some type of deep space probe or possibly a UFO from another planet of
some sort. But actually I just by chance, for some other research I
was doing for another presentation in Texas, I started running across us the information
that was declassified and it fit like a t It just kept coming at me.
I have like thousands of pages of documentation that shows that that's probably what
it was. All right. So there's there's some people that have written books
on you know, the Kexburg as a UFO. Um, do you know
if they're actually still hanging onto the idea or do you think that uh?
You know, I know how people get, uh, they get vested in
like a story and they don't want to give up that idea. Have you
had any backlash from anyone? None? In fact, right before there was
there was an article that I put together that was published in the UFO Chronicle
that explained, you know, what I found in my research, and I
let everybody know that I was going to have this article published. They gave
them a heads up and just to you out of a professional courtesy, and
not one person complained. I even contacted the tom the Kesburg the fire department
there that has a number posted and I let them know that Hey, you
know, I mean before this goes out, I want to let you know.
And here's a you know, here's what I'm going to be saying in
my report, and no way even got back to me. Now they have
a monument there there. Someone spent some money on a monument. Yes,
yeah, so wow. And I think it's great that when a case,
even though you know this is going back some some years. Have you heard
from any of the witnesses you have the Kexburg events, Yeah, not that
I can recall. No, I have not heard back. I would think
that those people, if anyone at all, would really like to know about,
you know, the decoding of what actually happened, and you know,
just to kind of put it behind them. Well, there there is one
witness and I don't want to mention his name that I spoke with because I
also let him know about what my report and he agreed with me. Oh
well that's good. That's good. Now what about you their stories? Of
course, And there's one of the stories that you hear about Kecksburg as this
thing going to right field. I think it was called I don't know if
it's right Patterson, And yes, it was okay, so it goes there
supposedly, Um, someone talks about a hanger being guarded and walking in and
seeing an alien arm hanging off of a table. Now this is all from
memory from talking to other people. I may have some things wrong about this
case, and so forgive me if that's so. But have you looked at
any part of that Yes, and the let's call it the film pocket.
The it was actually it was a gold plated egcorn shaped device that was transported
to Wright Patterson Air Force Base. So I did some research and that's this
is what really turned the case for me. As I think I mentioned earlier,
I did my doctor work at Penn State. Yes, and Penn's State
has a nuclear reactor there not most universities don't have one. And I when
I was doing my doctor work, I had to put three terms on that
main campus, so I, you know, hung around the nuclear reactor quite
a bit. That's why I have such a glowing personality. But the whole
idea was that the Penn State was the leader in nuclear waste control at that
time, and the doctor Eric Walker was heading that up. And during the
time of the Kexburg incident, doctor Walker was also president of Penn State,
and he was actually cited at the Kesburg landing site that night in December nineteen
sixty five, and he was supervising the removal of anything that would have been
contained in that film bucket. And there were also witnesses to claim that they
saw people in what they called moon suits, which were radiation protection suits,
walking around in the woods of Caxberg that evening, and they were also carrying
large boxes, and I during my research, I found out that those large
boxes were used to put radioactive materials in just in case they were doing radioactive
or nuclear or nuclear eman experiments on those in those film buckets, which they
were. So they actually then transported that recovery view called the film bucket to
right Patterson Air Force Base, and somebody did see it there and a hangar,
and it was the device was sitting in such a way that there was
like a parachute device, you know, it was it was underneath a parachute
device. So I found photographs of another film bucket on display at a science
conference and it was on display under a parachute. The parachute was above it
and the film bucket was beneath it. So you're thinking when that person peered
into the hangar, they were seeing basically the film bucket with a parachute over
it. Yes, but no arm dangling. I guess that No, No,
I didn't the arm. The only thing that the arm could have been.
Ok. I went through this as a possibility because there could have been
a variety of different nuclear experiments on board that film bucket, because the NASA
and the government did not describe that experiment like other experiments. I looked at
every single that launch of a Coronas satellite that I could get a hold of,
and most of them had the nuclear experiments that were inside. They had
them described. This is the only flight that I found, the only mission
I found that did not have the nuclear experiment described. So I went through
a whole scenario of I found out the kind of nuclear experiments that could have
been on board that satellite, and one of them was they were doing experiments
with monkeys. Oh no, yeah, they weren't going to drive him or
anything like that, but they were putting monkeys in these types of bucket.
It's along with some type of radioactive material to see how radiation and the cosmic
radiation would affect a monkey. And I found pictures of these monkeys while they
were still at home, and they were wearing a type of suit that looked
like it was made on a chain nail. But I guess protect the monkey
in case the capsule caught on fire. And so the only thing I could
think of is that maybe they trained the monkey that you know, there could
have been a monkey in one of those experiments that they trained to open up
the capsule somehow. But you know, I don't know that for sure,
but that's the only way I could think of that kind of an arm sticking
up. Wow, So that's a possibility. And now, how many of
these Corona satellites in particular did you find out that were launched? Oh,
they were like, I don't have my numbers in him, but it was
like one hundred and forty two hundred I think they were close to It was
somewhere around two hundred that were launched from fifty nine to seventy two, and
there were quite a few that didn't return. Oh. I was going to
ask you that. The second question is were there any other incidents that you
know you're aware of that were similar to Kecksburg or did things go into the
ocean? I mean, you're seventy percent water. Well, someone into the
ocean. But there was one that went into Venezuela. Oh, and the
farmers found it and returned it. It wasn't recovered. It was returned,
and I have photographs of that. Oh my god. So did they were
they you know, checked out for radiation poisoning or anything? Do you know?
Probably not by the time they found it. I was reading some reports
that one of the farmers that found it, they took the silk parachute chords
and they made suspenders out of it. Wow. So I haven't heard what
happened to him. Yeah, but there were there. It was. It
was totally. It was funny because like after that event, they started putting
signs on the film buckets in eight different languages saying that there would be a
reward if you return this to the United States. Ah. Now, people
did report that they saw, but I thought it was like hieroglyphics or something.
Well, they reported there was reporting of seeing symbols around the base of
that acorn. Now I did him for the research, and the people reported
that there were circles and stars, were dots in the center, and straight
lines and broken lines that were making up those symbols. Well, the Phillips
Laboratory was in charge of the nuclear experiment that was on board that recovery vehicle,
and their symbols were they used what's called you know, you're familiar with
the Z a symbol from being in the you know, the Southwest and also
that, so that could have been their their symbol and their their company.
The Phillips Laboratory symbol used the ZA symbol and stars with circles in the center.
So they could have been those symbols that were etched onto the base of
the film bucket. Because I did find reports of the satellite preparers writing on
the film buckets labeling them to let anybody who recover the film bucket know what
was inside of that film bucket. I see it wasn't unusual to have some
kind of symbols on in the buckets. Okay, So someone mentioned there's a
couple of things coming up in the chat. We're going to break in about
four minutes. So I do want to just ask someone did mention that there
are reports of the eyewitnesses saying that there were no seams, They saw no
seams, no rivets or anything like that. Do you think it's just the
angle they were looking at, or where did you think when you came across
that part of it? The film buckets themselves were layers of like a synthetic
plastic and gold. It was actually gold plated. It was smooth. There
were no rivets, nothing like that on it. So it was a perfectly
shiny, smooth gold a corn shaped object. Okay, so we have we
have Bobby regular listener in our chat room, and he's making a pretty good
point. And I think so anyway, and that is he says he's not
buying the theory, and I'm not saying that I'm not buying it, but
this part I do agree with him. The government would have come out long
ago and said sorry, this was ours, had nothing, you know,
nothing to do with the UFO. How come the government? You know,
it's been what fifty three years now, So why did the government come out
and say, hey, look this was ours. It's declassified now all that
stuff. The NR National Inconnaissance Office, they're kind of in charge of that,
and I checked with them back in two thousand and seven and they said
they a lot of their projects are still classified. Really, Oh yes,
if and I have the evidence that shows that. Also, here's another thing
to think about. Let's say that one of the experiments they were doing nuclear
experiments at that time, they were putting small atomic bombs inside those film buckets,
not big ones, but small one and those if they were using atomic
bombs for that experiment, which was not described, they still cannot release that
information. That's crazy that they would do something like that. They did it
all the time. What's what's out about Tchsberg is the Chinese exploded an atomic
bomb larger than the one that was used in Japan on May fourteenth of nineteen
sixty five. They dropped it and dropped it where in Japan, but it
was still air dropped, and they would have caused the fact that because paulverised
platonium to go into the atmosphere. Wow. So that's my thinking is that
they could have been trying to measure how much damage that bomb did just a
few months before the Kecksberg its gonna happened. I see, Wow, and
those things were still a secret. Wow. Okay, So we're coming up
on the break here in a minute, and we I do want to talk
about Kecksburg a little bit longer. But also I know that you were saying
that there's some type of relationship between Kesburg and Roswell. So when we get
into that in the second hour. So all right, so we're coming up
on the break and you're listening to podcast UFO on kg R A Radio.
All right, I think it's interesting and you're fairly you're fairly convinced that you
figured out that this is what fits. Now let me ask you about this.
Um, I think it was I know it was John Ventry together with
someone else, and I'm sorry they were both on the show. They had
a different satellite, a GE satellite, right, I mean that they were
thinking was something what's that Mark two ge? Right? And this had nothing
to do with that in your opinion. I had some lengthy discussions with one
of those two gentlemen, and at the end of what we were comparing notes
and they agreed that my solution fit better. Oh isn't that That's so nice
to hear? And I have it in writing. You're a smart man.
Wow, So you release it. Yeah. Now, they were actually on
my show and they debated Stan Gordon. Now I heard that show. Now
you listened to the show, So yeah, and what do you think?
What is Stan Gordon thinking these days, what's his what's his stand on it?
Now? As far as you know, can you answer that, I
have no idea. I I had talked to Stand a couple of years ago
and emailed him when I was living in Texas because I was thinking about starting
a collaborative where of people who were basically individuals who use the scientific method to
solve phenomena. And I started collaborating with him when I was living in Texas,
and back then we were he was asking me if I had any new
ideas about the Kesburg incident, and I mentioned to him. I think I
mentioned to him about, you know, the doctor Eric Walker being there,
but I hadn't pursued that yet, so I know he was still looking at
the Kecksburg case. And this would have been around two thousand and thirteen.
I had some email communications with them and uh but I and I like I
when I was ready to release that article, I did contact the fire There
was a there was a number on Stand Gordon's website and it said to call
that number if you had any other information. And I called him and said,
hey, get ready, I'm getting to release this and they said they
get backed me. And they never did so, I would stand stands a
very thorough and reasonable guy. So as far you know, every time I've
talked to him, which he's been on the show, I think four or
five times, very reasonable, intelligent, Um. I think that he would
be happy, you know, next time I talked to him. I don't
ask him, but I think that he'd be happy that it's solved. I
don't think that he would be one of these people that tries to hang on
to, you know, older thoughts. He never he always had that it
could have been a mad made object in his possible solutions. As far as
I've known him, I'll be honest with you, I was a little disappointed
in his approach to John Ventry that show that you had, because there's some
things that I know the stand doesn't know that should have not been you know,
included in the mix. And I don't want to talk about those,
but there are some things that I felt bad for John Ventry a bit because
there's some there's some other things that I've found out that go deeper into what
they were talking about. I see, well, we're going to be talking
about of course kex Berg as it as as we go along here, when
it comes to the Roswell case. But let's let's jump into that. UM.
I don't think that there's any reason at all we have to explain what
happened or what supposedly happened at Roswell. I think, you know, as
far as the United States goes, there's no other case so well known.
So I guess, well, this happened up you know, around in July
early July nineteen forty seven, just a few weeks after the Kenneth Arnold sighting,
there was kind of UFO mania going on. People were seeing saucers everywhere,
and I do believe people were seeing something. And you know, there's
people that have theories about how the modern so called modern ufoh I don't want
to say flap or movement or whatever, but you know, modern UFOs starting
in nineteen forty seven. I know, spoken to Stan Freedman. He thinks
it's very possible that if it is extraterrestrial, and he does think that some
UFOs. He always says, some UFOs that they saw, you know,
our nuclear explosions, and you know they came to see you know, the
kids found the matches, so they came, you know, to explore us.
So that's one of the reasons. Stan says, Um, he thinks,
you know, the activity started in nineteen forty seven. And by the
way, for those people that don't know, Stan Freeman is going he's up
eighty one. I think, um, he's going to be retiring very soon,
and I'm attempting to get him on as a retirement show on this on
podcast UFO upcoming. However, I spoke to Kathy Marden. She says he
is going to retire. He doesn't have you know, a retirement date,
you know, so to speak out there as of yet. But so now
eighteen forty seven something happened, and let's hear your side of it. You
know, I wasn't born in the nineteen forty eight, so I had nothing
to do with it. Okay, you're clear, just barely, yeah someone,
yeah, but yeah, it's kind of This whole thing is very interesting
to me. You know this. I love doing research and I've been it's
it's on how I ran into the whole idea of the Roswelt case because I
never knew about Roswell. I knew about Texpert because I saw it or heard
it unfold on the car radio when I was a kid. And how I
found out about the Rosvelt case. In the first place, I was doing
research for my doctoral degree at Penn State at Petit Library, the main library.
You may have these huge stacks of books. This was before the Internet
or anything. And I was looking for some research about music and there was
these these were such huge stacks of books that the actually rumor was that someone
was murdered in there. And you know, I've got excuses. I wasn't
the one, you know, and they had. It was these huge stacks
of books in the middle of nowhere, and I was doing research and I
turned around behind me and there was that Roswell book, I think, the
one that was published around seventy eight or so, I think William Moore and
yes, San Freeman and and so I saw that it was like someone put
a spotlight in on it. So I picked it up and I forgot all
about what I was doing, and I took that book over to one of
the little tables at the library, read the whole book and didn't do what
I was supposed to do. Okay, So I was like nineteen eighty two,
but what so I've been researching that and when I started doing the check
Spird case. I started noticing that a pattern was starting to show up in
the Kesburg case, so I wrote down these points. Do you mind if
I read them to you? Go ahead? Yeah, okay, So this
is now, this is what I found with the Kesburg case. These are
commonalities and elements from a pattern that I found in the Kesburg case. And
I wasn't really looking for pattern, but it showed up. But the first
point was debris including unfamiliar space age metallic materials was observed, was observed and
recovered near the crash site. Another characteristic the US government was involved. Third
characteristic of the pattern. I found at least two contemporary covert projects that collected
secret data were entangled. Fourth, at least one of those covert projects had
a lengthy, multiple year research and development cycle. Next, the government,
ufologists, skeptics and others contributed to disseminating a rare combination of unreliable and conflicting
information. And I think six extra terrestrial hypotheses were proffered. And the seventh
point, I think that seven a failure of imagination seemed to permeate the initial
and subsequent investigations. Now that's only part of the pattern. I found I
found other components to this pattern, and I'm not releasing the get until the
book comes out. But I found those seven components in the Kexburg case.
When I started looking at the Roswell case, then since it was one of
the one of my favorites, those same seven points plus showed up plus.
So we'll talk about the plus two. Um Uh Okay, so um here
here's here's the blanket argument that I always have about um Roswell when it comes
to the fact of, you know, people arguing that Roswell was say,
um, something military, you know, the mogul Uh, that's one of
the explanations of the weather balloon or and all that. Um. So,
my my blanket argument is that why on earth, um will pull over the
h the headline to the newspaper. Um, So, why on earth would
the R A A. F UM even admit that they captured a flying saucer
on the ranch? I mean, and I'm gonna say, why would they
admit it rather than say nothing at all? Because they clearly didn't have to
say anything at all. They Okay, this is about me. I've got
to go to a little bit more background about what I found, so I
can explain that there is a logical I mean, there's a logical explanation that
and the Roswell Army Airfield. Okay, that's that was located in Roswell.
One thing that helps put the whole Roswell let's call it incident in perspective,
is New Mexico. And I don't know how familiar you are with New New
Mexico, but familiar and I lived My first exposure to New Mexico was in
two thousand and one, right after the nine to eleven incident. That kind
of shook me up quite a bit. So I joined. Since I never
was in the armed forces officially, I joined AmeriCorps. I quit basically put
what I was doing as a professional administrator on hold, and I joined Americorp,
which is like the domestic Peace Corps. And that's where it took me
to Los Cruces, New Mexico, which is in the southern part of New
Mexico, to work with AmeriCorps. And I was in New Mexico from about
two thousand and one to about two thousand and ten, and I got to
travel all over that state working for the government and other projects, and I
talked with a lot of people and met a lot of very interesting people.
And New Mexico itself has a pretty unique cowboy culture and you've got to figure
that into the mix. That that's an important part. And so the whole
idea that in nineteen forty seven that they were working on Project Mogul okay,
and actually Project Mogul was started in nine around nineteen forty six, and Mogul
was used to test to see if the Russians or whomever were exploding atomic bombs
in the atmosphere because it was like kind of tracing, you know, in
the ocean. Allegedly there's like an acoustic channel that travels And there was one
scientist that I believe his name was Ewing. He came up with a concept
and don't trust me on that name. I'm just don't winning my notes in
front of me, but he came up with the same idea that that kind
of thing could have been happening in the air. So they were using this
Project Mogul back then to see if there were other explosions going on, atomic
explosions in the atmosphere. Now I'm saying that when I think crashed at Roswell
was not Project Mogul, and it was not a weather buller, but it
was another secret project that they were working on on that had to do with
passive communications satellites. And that's what fits the description of what was found on
the ranch near Roswell. They didn't there was I can't find anyone that actually
saw a flying saucer land and there was no flying in Roswell and there was
no flying saucer. Found that there were parts of a metal substance that was
kind of it was unique. It was like a memory medal that was found
there. And this was in nineteen forty seven. Now, other things that
don't come up too often that I can remember at all in any of the
Roosevelt discussions is that there was another person by a name of a doctor Robert
H. Goddard to lived in New Mexico, and he lived he had a
ranch in Roswell, and he was a rocket scientist. And to make a
long story short, these since nineteen forty five United States government was interested in
these passive communications satellites and with those passive communications satellites were referred to as satelloons.
They were Paul ethylene high altitude balloons that work with metal HM and that's
what the Project Echo. If you wear a Project Echo those satellites, that's
what Project Echo was. And according to my research, they were experimenting on
those Project Echo type prototypes back then. So I'm sorry, Okay, Well,
a couple of things. First of all, they're about I think it
was something like sixty miles. Further, there was there's reports of you know,
people possibly seeing some type of Voltwagen sized object separate, h you know
from all this, and you know, some people reported bodies and h you
know, possibly one still alive, and the thing we'll talk about as we
go along here. But the government, of course lied. I'm sure you
know about this at least I think four or five times in different occasions.
And so that's you know, I want to kind of unravel why do you
think they lied, even back in the nineteen nineties. But before we get
into that part of it, though, let's keep going. I want to
hear more about the materials of this particular I guess you wouldn't call it a
satellite or it's high altitude balloons and go ahead, Yeah, yeah, it
was technically back then, there was a science fiction writer in nineteen forty five.
I think his name was Clark, and he came up with a concept
of these They were considered to be passive communications satellites. What they would do
is basically there were these huge satellites eventually that they would bounce microwave signals off
of or whatever. And again I found government reports that reported that in nineteen
forty five, this was written about it, and they already had the idea
proposed. But even in nineteen forty two there were people that were talking about
taking signals and bouncing them off of I think it was Venus and back as
communications satellites, because it was much cheaper to do that than to run a
what's it called a subatlantic cable or whatever. And so I again I found
all these many thousands of pages of reports this I'm basing this all on my
reports, not making any of this up, and it's all documented. So
in nineteen forty five, that whole idea was in the mix, and the
United States government made that a top priority because one thing, there weren't any
The United States hadn't launched any satellites yet in nineteen forty five, right,
and there were there were studies that came out. It might have been from
the Rand Corporation, but I'm not sure that said. If the United States
would launch a satellite of some sort, that would be a real feather in
our cap and also it would be for the whole idea of world peace.
The ability of the world communicating with each other could be completed with these I
believe three passive communications satellites. And what these satellites were, they were just
gay basically big balloons that were coated with metal, and that's that's what that's
all. Really. The Project Echo was and you know, in fifties,
so and there were proposals and there were committees and panels that had to approve
these let's call them sataloons and how they were designed. So they were they
were already in the works at that time. And in my opinion, going
back to Project Mogul, which they didn't explain until I think it was nineteen
ninety five or ninety six, that that didn't come forward as a possible solution
to what landed it was were crashed it as well until nineteen ninety six,
So it was all that time they let people think what it was, you
know, they just tried to come up with what it was. They didn't
tell anyone that I can figure out. So the whole idea was that they
were already experiment manning with a type of what we would call today Myler m
that and Myler really didn't wasn't perfected totally until the sixties. But before that,
in the fifties day I had something called bo PET, and before in
the fifth before the fifties, in the forties, they had something called pet
was which was a type of polyethelene material. I can't pronounce the second part
of it, so it's it's called PET balloons, and they were they were
in place, and since nineteen forty one the product PET. Now, to
make get a long story short, you know when the regular weather balloons they
try to claim it was first they pred to claim that Roswell was first a
weather balloon. Well, first, getting back to the point I made.
First, they said it was a flying saucer. And that's I want to
know why they would say that. I mean, what's your thoughts are You're
getting there? Okay, oh yeah, I'll do this. I'll do that
now so you won't be in suspense. Okay, no, okay, here's
why I was getting there. But I was taking the longer round on the
long whil What yeah, yeah, but what okay? So these passive communications
satellites, they needed to be made out of a material like miler. These
are precursors to miler. And those technically balloons were made out of a flat,
flexible, non expansive material called pet back then that was they they learned
how to coat with aluminum. Okay, And they couldn't make them into a
sphere at first. They made them by taking two pieces of round material and
then some outwelding those two pieces together. So when you blow that up with
air or whatever, it doesn't have a sphere. It looks like a disc.
If you see, you know, if you look at today's even Myer
balloons, they don't look perfectly round like a rubber boy. If you take
a look at them, those kind they look a little bit like a disc.
So those early balloons, I got some kind of symbols that right in
front of me. So I don't they're agreeing or those early balloons up until
nineteen oh fifty something, Okay, we're disc shaped. So even and then
the article that the science fiction writer Clark wrote in the nineteen forty five and
that's published and it's out there. His article is titled extra Terrestrial Relays,
so they were actually referring to it. And what those relays were were these
big disc shaped satellons and he wrote them up. So technically, if you
once you've got one of those, let's call them, for lack of better
words, a minor balloon, and it was coated with aluminium and it was
flying, it technically was an extra terrestrial flying disc. And that's what they
were described as back in the nineteen forties, So someone could have they wouldn't
have been lying, but it would have been an extra terrestrial meaning it was
they were designed to be off of the Earth and the whole I think Clark's
original concepts would have three of those, and that would serve for communication systems
for the entire world. So these balloons, these saloons would have been extra
terrestrial flying discs that were aluminium coated polyethylene to some extent. Now, were
there supposedly ropes tom to a balloon or was this all was the actually was
the helium or whatever gas they were using at the time, Was that actually
in that disc shape object they're talking about. Whatever they were, they would
have been experimenting with things inside that flying extraterrestrial flying disc there would they would
have been something to cause it to go up. Okay, in our atmosphere,
they wouldn't have needed that same stuff was in a high altitude. So
they were testing some of those polyethylene balloons, plated metal plated, metalized balloons.
They were testing them to see how high they could go, would happen
with air pressure inside, and so forth, because this was a whole new
ball game for the people working with those and they had a person that they
brought in to work on making those balloons. Now you obviously found all this
information I'm assuming online it's just through government or how did you? Where did
you find all this information? I can't tell you that. I'm just kidding.
Your screen's going to go black again, yeah again. But all these
were government reports that I found that were I think they were declassified. Plus
I lived in Roswell, you know, not not I didn't live in Roswell,
but I was on an anti gang task force that met in Roswell.
So when I and I had been to Roswell quite a few times, and
I talked to people in Roswell who were connected to you know, whole New
Mexico is connected to the whole space program. I mean, it's it's a
big that the New Mexico, that a lot of things were done there,
and I actually spoke with people that confirmed what I was talking about was true.
And on top of that, they would have needed Now Robert Goddard who
lived on a ranch in Roswell that I hardly ever hear anyone talk about now,
even though he died in nineteen forty five, he was working on rockets,
and he was working with a team of individuals on rockets. The way
the passive communications satellite system was designed, they would have had to launch those
into a high altitude space in those rockets. And around nineteen fifty nine they
were experimenting with that and one of the satelloons exploded because it didn't unfold properly.
Got you gotta fold this great, big, hundred foot balloon into like
the size of a oatmeal can. And what it exploded, The same kind
of material was disseminated around the East Coast that they found on that ranch in
Rosville. All Right, well, you know, I'm I'm listening. I'm
not you know, I'm I'm being open minded about this, and uh,
you know, it really would be interesting after all these years if you actually
had an idea what's going on? You know, Uh, there's a lot
of witnesses that have you know, firsthand witnesses. There's not too many left
right now. But so this h Jesse Marcel was stating someone who put this
in chat He was stating, there was no way that you know, he
could hit it with a hammer, He couldn't dent it, but it would
fold and then fold back. Are you saying that these are the properties of
this uh? I forget what you called it, like pet or whatever it
was, uh pre milar the prototype that they would have been working on would
be able to do that. In fact, I have testimonies of other witnesses.
There's only a handful of whist that actually handled those materials that day.
And technically, when you go back to the whole Rosbo incident, that's all
they had were the people sating that that that odd mettle must have come from
a flying saucer. But at least one of the witnesses that handled that material
that day said that it was not extra terrestrial in nature, that it was
you know, something from Earth, and that they were you know, there's
evidence that they were experimenting with those kind of materials back then. No one
just knew it. I even have photographs of discs that are aluminum coded inflatable
discs from you know, back when they were doing the prototypes and working on
them, and they were different sizes you know, before they got to the
real big ones. But they they really didn't get into a spherical shape totally
until like the nineteen fifty So they were there were discs for a while,
and they kept on getting the metal kept on getting more and more rigid.
So they they had to have been experimenting with that kind of a metal that
was memory shape and they had to have it do that. Uh you know
at the time the Roswal incident happened, they would have had been experimenting with
that for that project to have gone on. Well, I understand, you
know, the secrecy, but um, they supposedly like combed the field to
get every single scrap of material up um, and they went out of their
way, according to some witnesses, to confiscate anything that you know, people
were squirreling away um. And that just uh, it's kind of curious why
material I know, it's experimental, but nothing that it doesn't seem like it
would be of top secret nature. Why they would be so involved in making
sure they got every last tiny little scrap up of that. Do you think
that it was that important? Yes, because again the research I've done,
the fact of having those kind of communications satellites would have been a world priority
and would have put the United States in front of any other country as far
as the space race would go. Plus one account put that at least one
account stated that Marcel and Ramie when when those materials, those materials were allegedly
recovered from Roswell by Marcel and some people, and then they were four owned
to Fort Worth, Texas, where it was examined by Raymie and h another
officer. And the officers knew that they what they were looking at were not
from a weather balloon. And they knew it really, you know, they
didn't they didn't want to say that it was from Project Mogul, But I've
I've seen witnesses testimonies that what they saw was, you know, they it
was not a weather balloon. That they actually stated that one photograph that was
out there, and there's some pretty reliable sources that claimed that and they really
didn't you know, that was in forty seven, and they really didn't even
come forward and say it was Project Mogul until ninety five or ninety six,
and there were some witnesses that came forward from a unit was a school in
New Mexico that were launched that Project Mogul balloon that day from New Mexico.
And my way of thinking what they were possibly doing was they were since these
Project Mogul were like balloon trains with large balloons in them, they were probably
testing the miler coded balloons by putting them in as part of those balloon trains.
Since they were already high altitude balloon trains, they could have been testing
those miler coded ones with devices on them to see about the pressure and so
forth. That's one way they could sneak those in without people seeing flying discs
flying around. So still getting back to the headline just one time, Um,
you think that the they made an honest mistake thinking that at first they
had a flying disc, you know, because they called it in one you
know, one press release they called it a flying saucer, another one they
called it a flying disc. But they were alluding to the fact that they
had something extraterrestrial when they first came out. Of course, you know,
they recanted the following day and fort Worth like you said, but but so
so, what are your thoughts on that in general? If if they if
it was one of those UH prototype sadaloons, it would have been a metal
coated flying disc if they saw it in if anyone saw it air. From
the research that I saw, no one saw it in the air. They
always saw the pieces on the ground that if someone saw a saw one of
those balloons, either as part of a project Mogal train or you know,
in addition to that Mughal train, it would have technically looked like an extra
terrestrial flying disc that was made out of a polyester coated with metal. And
the descriptions that I've read in a couple of cases of that metal, the
people of people that actually handled it described it as like an aluminium coated pliable
but flexible yet not you know, stretchable material. So are you saying basically
that one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. In other words,
the Army Air Force at Roswell had no idea what these that these crafts were
up in the air and being tested. Is that what your thoughts? All?
Right, yes, but here's here's what that that one of those other
points that I made, Here's what I'm finding out that what's happening back then
and even now, you know they talk about disclosure and cover up, it
wasn't just the government that was covering it up. You know, there were
there's there were um ufologists that were making statements that they thought were true that
weren't. So what there were also scientists in the government were making statements that
they thought were true that weren't. There were some people making true statements.
And what was was this like this perfect storm of conflicting information that creates a
situation where you have all this conflicting information, some of it's reliable, some
of it's not reliable. And when you get that kind of a perfect storm
with all kinds of information, and I've documented that from all all those different
sources, you can't solve a problem, especially a problem as big as UFO
phenomena. So what was happening is that there was so much information on him
there coming out, some of the disinformation, some of the misinformation, some
of the accurate information that it was causing it to be covered up without having
to try to cover with up very convoluted. So yeah, and I found
evidence of that. So, um, if the if the government actually didn't
come clean in nineteen ninety six, I think you mentioned earlier. I know,
um, there was a senator that you know, brought there was a
hearing with the Air Force. Why wouldn't they finally just come clean, you
know, with with the whole situation and just just say what they were doing.
I mean, after all this time, it shouldn't matter. Well they're
again depending on what they were really doing with that. Now let's let's and
again I'm just throwing this out as an example. Let's say what I think
would happen was that there were one of those uh metal coded sataloons, was
either part of one of those balloon trains or it was on its own being
tested. Oh if lightning would have hit that. And there are some indicators
that there was a storm that night, and that's what supposedly caused this crash,
A saucer to crash, and that's technically what happened. If let's say
someone was trying to bring that sadaloon down or it was connected somehow. I've
seen videos of lightning or electricity hitting a miler balloon and it just blows up
and it would tear the clothing and the skin and the hair or everything possibly
off of anyone that was near it. Wow. So if if I'm not
saying that that happened, if that happened, that could possibly still be covered
up. I mean there there could be reasons. Like I said, when
I was doing research with the kexper against them, I found out that there
even though things were supposed to have been declassified, that they weren't. So
if there was some kind of disaster connected to it, and I and again
I don't know, and I'm not convinced that there was that where people were
killed. But if that, if that happened or something like that happened,
they wouldn't let me go. Now I know myself and having to deal with
a secret and top secret material in some cases, I can't tell about that
for the rest of my life. M and I had talked with an attorney
about this, and for example, if I write a book that had top
secret material in it, the government could go and remove the book off of
the shelves. You do realize that if you actually have solved this, that
you're going to have if you're going to have a heck of a lot of
pushback because it's like the number one American UFO, possibly the number one UFO
case of all time. Right, you think you're gonna get a lot of
pushback out. Some of it's coming through the chat room. Yeah. Here
here, I'm gonna change my name. Yeah I would. What would I
changed it to? It's already is now. But I did you know there
wasn't there wasn't. I won't. I won't mention where women there was an
article about this, my article published about just the Roswell case, not the
Cacksburg and Roswell comparison, and nobody pushed back, Uh, well, it
will happen, of course, you know. I mean they have diners,
they have the Roswell Museum. You know, you're gonna be very unpopular.
You'll just have to live with it. Um. So uh and it's interesting,
Um, you know a number of people in the chat room they're not
they're they're saying, well, where's the evidence. I think that's kind of
what we've wanted to get, uh, you know, from the flying Sars,
so to speak, as we have no evidence of that either. Um,
now what do you say that you have is closest to evidence testimonies of
people that handle the material and possible material, I don't have it. What
about the the little I beams? Jesse Marcel Junior talked about these little I
beams that had uh sort of purple and hieroglyphics on them. What about that?
Is that part of something you looked into it? All that? Yes,
one of the scientists, Now, these these UH project mobibles, they
were launched from Ala mcgordon, New Mexico, some of them, which is
right about that far away from Roswell, and they the team that launched that,
and I happen to know because there were let's say a scientist still living
in New Mexico that were part of that launch team. They claimed that those
types of materials were part of the Project Mogul. What I'm saying is that
I think that that you know that they were the scuy they were testing those
sataloons as part of the Project Mogul, because they would have both been high
altitude balloons, so you think they were they were incorporated into those the Moguls
and somehow, but why would have hieroglyphics on it? Anyway? I mean
did you do well. I don't know if there were any hieroglyphics on the
balloon. There were hieroglyphics on the little ibeams, right, those ibeams.
Uh. Again, I don't want to get into my sources, but the
the companies of those ibams were, apart from had those designs on them.
So uh okay. Interesting. So getting back to the nineteen ninety six and
again I don't have the exact year when that happened. When yeah, um
so the part the subject of the bodies came up and at the time the
government, the Air Force claimed that it was crash test dummies, which of
course didn't come out until five years after the Roswell incident. But they,
you know, instead of um looking or saying something logical, they said that
they were crash test dummies. Again adding more uh more, lies to the
whatever type of cover up it was. Um what about that part of it
when people were talking about bodies and that other like I mentioned earlier, the
Volkswagen size Uh you know, a vehicle that was found and I forget exactly
how many miles away forty miles away or sixty or something like that. Yeah,
and there's there's a couple of things. I've never found any evidence that
satisfies me that that there were actual uh bodies discovered to the original Roswell crash.
Now, uh so, I'm I'm I'm really not convinced that those bodies
who were linked to what was found on that ranch. But I didn't talk
And again, I lived in New Mexico and I worked and I talked to
people. There were a lot of space junk things lying around New Mexico,
and that could have been anything. There was. I mean, there were
people because of that called cowboy culture. That's what you have to take into
consideration. People were shooting off rockets all the time and just for you know,
fun. And you know, when I worked in Truth or Consequences for
a while, they were they had that you know, that that space station
or whatever was built down there, and a lot of the experimental things that
they launched from there didn't make it. And I mean I had friends that
would shoot stuff up in the air just for fun, you know, and
uh Fourth of July or whatever. So there were quite a bit of rocket
pieces all of scattered throughout New Mexico. Wow, could have been anything.
Yeah, yeah, Um, So the only part I guess the I mean,
I think this is really fascinating. And the only part I find it
a little tough to understand is why, after all this time, why didn't
the government just plane admit that this was an experimental situation? I mean,
it's it's kind of silly now. I mean, there's the Roswell Festival.
There's so many people, um, you know, involved in you know,
the celebration and the mystery and books and all that, and so why wouldn't
the government just plane come out and say, hey, look, this was
an odd shaped, you know, aluminum coded mylar type experimental thing that happened.
And that's the end of story, that's it. Why wouldn't they just
admit it and get it over with and stop all this? Well it's a
it's a multifaceted situation now, just like you were saying, so I'm not
thinking in mind, well, if they really come forward and show all this,
there goes the whole Roswell ceremony, you know, in that whole whole
event and this if, like I'm saying, and this cover up that I'm
again, it's bigger than just a government. Okay, that's keeping stuff quiet.
They don't want it to go away. They want to keep using it.
They want the UFO component to be part of the cover up mix.
So it will take forever for anyone to really figure out what's going on with
the whole UFO phenomenon. It has to be a big confused mix for the
whole cover up to work. Well, there's certainly I don't agree with one
part of that statement, and you're saying the whole UFOU, you know,
cover up or the whole UFO, because there are definitely things that are seeing
that are unexplainable, you know, constantly and ever since. So you're not
thinking that everything that's happening is something to do with the government or uh no.
I mean, but I'm talking about UFO in the sense of being from
another plant. I'm saying that there are there are things that I think what's
happening is that there are things out there that are from private industry that are
putting them up there, you know, like SpaceX or whatever whatever, And
that's part of the mix too. In fact, one thing I found fascinating
in researching the Roswell event is that there were private companies at that time that
had more money than the government did, and they were funding the you know,
the passive communications satellites programs, whereby the government couldn't fund them. So
there were definitely, at least one point, and I don't know that whole
corporate cronyism mixed, but there are definitely private people out there that are,
you know, funding things. And I know when I worked for the government,
a part of my job was to look at technological innovations that were going
on, and I had to sign non disclosure programs or agreements. Anything I
signed in a private lab was anywhere from fifteen to fifty years ahead of what
was out there on the market. They weren't most of them weren't government projects.
Okay, So basically, are you let me just I just want some
clarity here in your thoughts if I could. Are you thinking that there is
that every UFO that scene is explained away or could be explained away as a
government or private contractor experimental type of craft or something that people are seeing,
or do you think there's a possibility of just we don't know, We don't
know. That's where I'm coming from, because for examples, you've got other
mentions to look into. And since I think it was two thousand and one.
I believe it was nassauf on a cold spot in the microwave background that
they feel was kind of like a gateway to a multiverse approach. Also,
if there I feel right now that you know there is extraterrestrial life out there,
I believe that, you know, especially working with projects SETI or whatever.
And my prediction is within ten years, give or take three years,
we will have some kind of physical communication. But it's highly likely that we're
looking at hollow grahams in some cases, wow, instead of physical ships.
Interesting, Well, it sounds like you're having a little bit of trouble there.
Again, it's it's probably the you know, um, it's probably the
government. After you. Your screen hasn't gone black. But we have just
a couple of minutes left. Um, you have a website right, Yes,
it's uh Bob Wenzel gross dot calm Bob www www dot Bob Wenzel grows
all one word dot com. Okay, And and and like I said,
we just have a few minutes left here. You're you're book, your book
that's coming out. What do you have a working title for that? Well,
I just completed a most my most recent newest book that I just had
a I have it's it's drafted, and I have a proposal that I have.
The title of that one is and this is a single book, it's
not a series. The title is the True Nature and Value of phenomena known
as UFOs. Okay, hey, hey Bob, I'm gonna have to cut
this short. We are we are done. So I want to thank you
so much for being on the show. And good look with that, stay
healthy and stay safe after you release all that information. Thank you. All
right, I'll try to close this down here, all right, you take
care, Thank you so much. All right, you bet? All right?
Everyone, So that's it for our show tonight. Thanks so much.
We have MJ. Ben Yes here coming up next week. I want to
thank everyone that helps out with the show. We have, We have Evan
in the background, we have our guests Dr Bob Gross, Alejanda Rojas and
Peggy Shunning for running the peg of the Facebook page. And thank you kg
R A Radio. And we'll be back the same time next week. And
that's it. Remember to keep your eyes to the sky.