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Hello, and welcome to the show
on Martin willis your host, and we

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have an excellent guest for you this
evening. I'm excited to have doctor Robert

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Gross. We met out in Phoenix
last February and he's a great guy.

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Before our guest this evening, we
have of course Alejandro Rojas with the UFO

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updates, and we are live now. For those of you on YouTube,

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you know that we changed our time
and we are also on kg r A

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Radio. I'm really excited about all
the listeners over there. I hope you

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enjoy the show. We're bringing you
different guests every week. Last week was

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a humdinger with three different guests.
We generally have one guest, but we

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may add some as we go along. You know, it just depends on

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the circumstances, but anyway that may
happen. I want to thank everyone that

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supports the show. Anyone can do
that and you can find that information over

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on podcast ufo dot com. So
we are live on Tuesday evenings at six

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to eight Eastern Standard time on KGr
A Radio, as I mentioned, and

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also on YouTube. You can also
watch that right on the website podcast UFO

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dot Com. Over there, we
have some blogs. We also have a

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UFO Sightings page. People can post
sightings anonymous. We have quite a few

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of them over there, very interesting
ones. So check that out when you

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get a chance. And so that's
enough babbling for me right now, Alejandro,

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How you doing. I'm doing pretty
well, doing a lot better today

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than that. Yeah. I just
remembered I owe the KGr station and apology

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because I was sick yesterday. So
I woke up like in the middle of

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the night thinking, but yeah,
and uh, doing well. Bit really

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busy, um but u. And
we'll be at alien Con anybody who's going

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to be there in Pasadena this weekend. We're gonna be just promoting the conference

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and selling some T shirts and stuff. So, oh great, that's gonna

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be fun. Pasadena is always a
great place. I go to a great

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the Rose Bowl flea market there when
I'm out there. It's really Yeah.

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I haven't been there and I've heard
it's gorgeous, so I'm really looking forward

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to it. We're seeing at a
really cool airbnb. Oh oh wow,

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great, awesome. So what's going
on for UFO news? UFO news,

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there's not a whole lot. I
mean, there's still that news that we've

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been talking about the last couple of
weeks about the Nimitsu foen count. Also

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that information about you know, George
Knapp shared about the government organization that did

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all of that and kind of how
they were looking into Skinwalker and everything.

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So there's a lot of that going
on still and otherwise not a whole lot

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of new stuff. A couple new
things that have been posted out there.

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One Cheryl Costa did a story for
the Syracuse New Times talking about how sightings

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are are deteriorating. There's less and
less sightings at least that move On is

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getting. It's always difficult with those
numbers because those numbers are very high level.

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Doesn't those are cases before they're investigated. And in my you know,

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examination of these where I watched these
numbers on a monthly basis as well,

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and I'd love to hear your opinion
on it. Often it's due to awareness.

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So the more UFO television shows there
are out there, especially One's feature

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during groups like move On, then
the more UFO sightings that happen. And

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really we haven't had a lot of
UFO programs going on now, I know

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and Bob may know this. There
are a lot of production companies out there

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looking to do something right, and
I know History Channels working on a couple

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of things, but nobody's pulled the
trigger on anything, so we'll see what

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happens. I think the hard part
it is is everything's been done when it

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comes to UFOs, so it's hard
to look at to figure out a new

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angle. But yeah, what do
you think of the numbers? Yeah,

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you know, I just I haven't
really been paying a lot of times.

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I do look at them, but
I haven't noticed just lately, so I

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guess I guess I haven't really paid
that much attention to the actual numbers.

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But they are down, and like
blanket, like a blanket number is down.

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Yeah, kind of, the overall
number of sighting report worts is down.

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But it's really difficult. So to
qualify does that mean? You know?

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I think people then think, oh, the phenomena has subsided. But

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that's really hard to say. And
you know, Bob, your guests can

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speak to this. We both belong
to this group called the Scientific Coalition for

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Ecology, and it's hard to you
know, it takes a lot of work

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to qualify something as an unknown,
and until you do that, you have

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a strong number of unknowns, you're
not really going to be able to gauge

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the phenomena, you know, the
mystery itself where the unknowns are strange.

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Otherwise you're just kind of dealing with
how the public deals with the situation.

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And with these numbers, you often
see that where there's more people, there's

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more reports, which makes sense.
Where there's more sunshine and better whether you

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see more reports because people are outside
and can see the sky more so.

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I mean, so the way populations
move have a lot to do with how

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things are reported, but don't necessarily
reflect on the phenomena itself, I think.

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But there's sort of like a it's
sort of in a way pop culture

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influenced right very much, so it
really is. I mean, when Hangar

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one was out, you know,
that Move On television show, they had

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a huge increase in sighting reports.
Now, let me ask you something.

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Do you know if a part of
me, do you know if Peter Davenport

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was getting a lot of sighting reports
as well? So was it just move

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On? He has those trends.
His trends are a little different, but

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because he's not always featured. You
know, they're featured on shows sometimes they're

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featured on the same shows. Sometimes
they are not, but yeah, you

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can see that trend and if you
ask him, he'll he'll he'll tell you

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that as well. He gets different
media attention, but he does get media

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attention. So whenever he gets a
story, let's say, in a large

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media outlet, then he'll have an
increase himself. So it's heavily influenced by

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the media attention that these which makes
sense, you know, the marketing,

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the the awareness that people get that
they exist. And you know when someone

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watches a TV show and you know, someone like new work or move on

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as mentioned, then they think,
you know what, I had a sighting

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a couple of years ago or five
years ago or ten years ago or or

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it even happens, you know what, I was there in that roswell thing.

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So I'm going to report. I
mean, that's how Kurt Russell,

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h if you remember last year,
reported and said, yeah he was a

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part of the Phoenix Lights was from
a television show. So that often produces

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Yeah, a lot of reports.
Now you mentioned earlier to some more on

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the nimits, and I did see
there's a lot going on. I know

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there was some news. Let's see
Fox News ran some thing with Nick Pope

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and I forget the Yeah, yeah, so a lot is happening. Of

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course, that started with the I
team in George Napp that, you know,

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getting Harry Reid to help out to
find the documents, and I know

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you've done a lot of work on
that on the what's the name of the

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website, the geek what is it? I have den of Geek. I

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talk a story coming out this week
at there. It's taking a long time

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for them to get it out,
just because you know, I take second

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billing to the Sci Fi Industries Entertainment
Industries News. So I have a story

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on the nimets coming out, and
then I have another longer story on the

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program and its relation to Skinwalker Ranch
and Bob Bigelow and that history which will

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be coming out to probably in their
magazine. But one interesting part to this

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is that the SSE, the Society
for Scientific Exploration, they've gotten some news,

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especially by George Knapp recently, because
last weekend they had their big conference

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and part of their conference was John
Alexander, who lives in Las Vegas and

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was kind of the local host of
the event. And then how put up

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and help put up as a physicist
who was involved with the big low organization,

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the BASS and this a tip and
a swap, these these different names

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at the Pentagon project had so that
was featured heavily at the conference. Or

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John Alexander kind of took the higher
level of view and then how put off

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having you know, very intimate knowledge
of the more recent investigations discussed that and

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the Pentagon and that sort of stuff. I wish I could have been there

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because I'm sure he shared information that
he hasn't shared before. And I should

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note that John Alexander, who is
a retired Army intelligence he's worked in the

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defense industry. He did work with
Bigelow and skin Walker, and he was

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instrumental in helping organize the whole thing
early on years ago in the nineties.

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Right, wow, I did.
I did have a little back and forth

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with George Knapp, try to get
him to just drop in for a few

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minutes, but he said, get
back to me in the fall. He's

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busy. He's so busy all the
time. He is busy all the time.

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I mean, there's sweeps. I
spoke to him, I speak to

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him periodically, and yeah, and
his messages will be really short during sweeps

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and stuff. But from what I
understand, he's going he is going to

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want to help to promote the Skinwalker
documentary that Jeremy Corbell has just finished and

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will be out on ituned soon and
so and and a lot of it has

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to do with him, because he
wanted to make a documentary of all of

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this early on, but he couldn't. He was asked not to, but

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he had videotape. He had had
gotten a lot of footage. So this

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footage is now going to be part
of Corbell's documentary and George Knapp is a

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big part of that. So he's
very excited that this footage is finally going

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to get out, and so he's
going to be promoting it. Yeah,

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come the fall. Now, I
know, I know that you had Jeremy

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on recently. We had him on
I don't know, several months ago.

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But do you know exactly when that's
going to be released in Is it only

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on iTunes or other other venues?
I don't know exactly when. All I've

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heard is summer, and I believe
that means very soon, in the next

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month or two, it will be
on iTunes. But from what I understand,

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they haven't confirmed other distribution outlets,
but they've gotten a lot of interest,

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and essentially they're in a position where
they get to pick and choose,

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so there will be some other very
large distribution outlets that they'll be that they'll

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be coming through. I see.
Okay, anything else going on. I

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think that's about it. Well,
I do appreciate as always, all hundred,

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thanks so much, and we'll be
back with you next week, right,

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my pleasure, my friend. Yeah, we'll talk to you next week.

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All right, okay, everyone,
So our guest tonight is doctor Bob

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Wenzel Gross. He's a semi retired
I like that semi retired. I'm sort

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of semi retired myself, but I
work way too much, so I don't

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know if I qualify for that.
He's also a researcher, a writer,

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presenter, an educator with He has
two non fiction books out Connecting the Phenomena

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is one, and I know he
has also some white paper reports out there

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as well. We're gonna be talking
about all that, and welcome to the

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show, Bob, Doctor Bob.
I should say thank you Martin. It's

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great to see you again, great
to be here. Yeah, oh yeah,

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yeah, we met in uh in
February. And that was a lot

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of fun, wasn't it. Yes, it was a terrific group, terrific

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conference. Yeah, absolutely absolutely.
So we're gonna can you kind of for

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the person hearing you for the first
time, can you give them your your

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your basic background, and you know, actually what made you interested in this

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topic overall? Well, be my
professional involvement in the whole UFO phenomenon.

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I can, I can go back
forward, but I'll just start there because

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I'm pretty old and and we don't
have that much time. But if I'll

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go back to nineteen eighty four,
how does that sound? And good round

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number? Yeah, Yes, that's
not when I was born though, But

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in nineteen eighty four, that's when
I received my doc rip from Penn State.

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And my major was in music education
and my minor was in general studies.

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And because my doctoral dissertation involved electronic
music, I was actually doing a

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lot of full blown scientific experiments back
then, working on turning analog sound into

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digital sound, which there really wasn't
much as far as digital sound went back

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in nineteen eighty four, and since
I had a doctorate in music education,

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I thought I'd put that into good
use So in nineteen eighty five, I

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decided I was going to write a
children's musical, and I wanted to be

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musical to be about something that was
popular, and back in eighty five,

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things like Battles and Out of Space
and Terrestrials and Star Wars and the movies

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ET and Star Track and Star Wars
were popular. So I decided I was

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going to write a musical about UFOs, and I thought that would really be

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popular for young kids. So I
looked around the Pennsylvania area and I located

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a group from Pennsylvania. It was
a clearinghouse known as the Pennsylvania Association for

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the Study of the Unexplained, and
I joined that organization I think it was

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in April of nineteen eighty five,
to learn as much as I could about

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UFOs for my children's musical that I
was writing. And that's what kind of

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really kicked off my formal studies in
you know, studying about the whole UFO

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phenomena. Wow, And so did
you really enjoy the organization? And I'm

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trying to think, is that the
one I'm trying to think of who the

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the main person who send the study. He's been on the show, so

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many times I was Stan Gordon.
Yeah, that's him. Yeah, is

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he part of that is he was
at that time, back in nineteen eighty

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four eighty five. Yes, And
so that was the group I worked with

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and started That's why I started learning
and became a field investigator. And I

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was with that group for a few
years. And in nineteen eighty seven they

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had a national it was a national
UFO Information Week that PASSA as well as

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moved on from Seguin, Texas.
They sponsored it and they held this event

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at the Greensburg Mall, which is
in Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania. So I

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attended that event, and to make
a long story short, it was very

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well attended. I'd say over a
thousand, you know, maybe a couple

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of thousand people attended this mall.
And I actually when I was there and

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the event was at the I think
it was like the west end of the

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mall, and I was walking around
around the north end of the mall listening

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in on people's conversations, and there
was this group that was gathering at the

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north end of the mall, far
away from where the displays were, and

205
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I kind of worked my way in
to hear what was going on and what

206
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it was where there were two witnesses
describing what happened at the Kesburg case back

207
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:45.839
in nineteen sixty five, And that
was the first time that I think witnesses

208
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:52.559
came forward. This was an eighty
seven, so twenty two years later with

209
00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:57.799
testimony about the Kexburg case. So
I was like thrilled to hear all that.

210
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.799
Back in eighty five. I did
happen to hear the Kexburg case on

211
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:10.519
Foldy on KATIEK radio. That's why
I became kind of obsessed with the whole

212
00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:17.559
Kexburg case. So really really got
my heart popping to hear witnesses give testimony

213
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:22.200
about what happened that night on December
ninth back in nineteen sixty five, the

214
00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:30.079
Kexberg. So I was kind of
hooked in the whole UFO phenomenon field at

215
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.319
that point. Wow. Now I
know Stan Gordon that it's kind of like

216
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:38.200
his baby in a way, you
know Kesburg. You know, I actually

217
00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:45.720
had him on debating John Ventry along
with someone else when it came to one

218
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:49.000
of the satellites. But you have
a different you came up with a different

219
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:56.160
satellite that you think this could have
been right am I getting that right?

220
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.799
You know? I see the Skype
screen is frozen, and it looks like

221
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:07.680
our guest is frozen. So hanging
everyone. I'm not sure I might have

222
00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:15.079
to ring him back. Just hang
in there if you would. Um let's

223
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:23.200
see all right, and let's see
I'll add him to the call and see

224
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:33.599
what happened. Okay, So we
did a test ahead of time. Everything

225
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:41.759
was good. Um, so we
will just have to continue on. So

226
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:48.079
live listeners, thank you for hanging
in here. And he is not picking

227
00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:56.680
up in Skype, so not as
of yet. He may he may call

228
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:03.359
back, so at this point.
So the Kexburg case nineteen sixty five,

229
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:08.200
there were several witnesses. It's really, you know, quite amazing. This

230
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:15.079
thing shot across the sky and then
it did some type of angle turn and

231
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:21.599
it was very bright and very low, and people were saying that appeared to

232
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:29.039
be moving along rather slowly with like
a stream of fire behind it. So

233
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it landed in the woods and I
remember I think Stan Gordon, who were

234
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:42.759
mentioning earlier, was actually listening to
the radio live. I'm hearing strange noises

235
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:48.160
there, doctor Bob, can you
hear me on the side. We're gonna

236
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:56.880
have to hang up you sound.
You're sounding very much like Alvin and the

237
00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.559
Chipmunks. So we're going to hang
up on your and try again. I'm

238
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:03.000
going to get you to start singing
some Christmas songs here, all right,

239
00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:11.279
so we'll try him again. He
did come across visually, but that was

240
00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:15.599
I'm going to keep that recording in. I like that. It's a very

241
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:22.720
alien sounding. So this thing crashes
in a wooded area and there were some

242
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:27.920
eyewitnesses just coming back again. Let's
see how he stuns. Doctor Bob,

243
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.119
can you hear me? I can
hear you? Do you know what happened

244
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:37.000
on your end? Everything just went
black? Yeah, it's definitely the government.

245
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:41.000
They always do that. That happened
in the future. All right,

246
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:45.000
Well whatever, if you didn't do
anything, I can't tell you not to

247
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.440
do it again. So yeah,
it just everything just went totally black.

248
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.920
Wow. All right, So you're
not up visually yet. So when things

249
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.920
like this happened, you know,
I can't. It seems to me that

250
00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.839
I asked you a question. Of
course you didn't hear it. So we

251
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:07.079
were talking about you were getting interested
in Kexburg, and also I started telling

252
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:12.480
the listening audience. Basically what happened
there. I didn't really get into anything

253
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:17.640
much further than the thing doing is
zig zag in the sky and crashing in

254
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:22.400
the woods. But do you want
to just go over what you know about

255
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:27.759
that that story in particular, but
the Kexburg incident started. Now I can

256
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:33.319
see myself by the way in the
corner of the video, which I couldn't

257
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:37.599
before, So I don't know what
that means. But yeah, you're not

258
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:42.559
un visual right now, which is
fine. So this was in nineteen sixty

259
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:48.160
five and in Kexburg, Pennsylvania.
What happened. It was around four forty

260
00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:55.440
seven pm on December ninth, nineteen
sixty five, and there were hundreds of

261
00:22:55.480 --> 00:23:02.960
witnesses in several different states and including
Canada. It basically saw this fireball coming

262
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:08.759
in in a southeasterly direction, and
when the fireball got to about Ohio,

263
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:17.240
it slowed and it made a turn
left and started heading towards Pennsylvania. And

264
00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:25.400
when this fireball got between I think
it was La Trollo, Pennsylvania and another

265
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:30.480
a little community, it made a
right and started heading south and then when

266
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.559
it got south, it made a
U turn and headed up. It landed

267
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:38.880
in Kesburg, and it made a
semisoft landing in the woods in Kecksburg,

268
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:47.839
and right before it landed, it
kind of morphed from a fireball into a

269
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:53.119
four pointed fiery star. And at
that point when it was reported on the

270
00:23:53.200 --> 00:24:00.119
kati Ka radio and Katika television,
a lot of people started hearing about it,

271
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:06.000
and they started traveling out to Kesburg. Now, my parents wouldn't letting

272
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.599
me go out. It was only
seventeen years old at the time and not

273
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:12.119
a very good driver, and they
would not really travel fifty three miles in

274
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:18.039
their relatively new car out to Kesburg. But I thought the whole thing ended

275
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:23.039
right then and there. But so
later on that evening there were quite a

276
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:27.880
few people who got there, some
of the witnesses like that I heard in

277
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:33.920
nineteen eighty seven Gid testimony, there
were groups of people that got into the

278
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:41.240
woods before the police and the army
arrived, and they sought this object lying

279
00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:49.960
in this in the woods in kind
of a shallow riverbed or creek bed,

280
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:57.200
and it was an object that was
a large acorn shaped object. It was

281
00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:03.720
shiny gold and and it had a
protubers on the front that some people reported

282
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:10.759
look like a burnt orange colored trash
can. And also the object was giving

283
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:15.279
off really bright flashes. Well,
it was there on the earth groud.

284
00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:22.279
My guest is doctor Bob Gross,
very excited to talk to him tonight and

285
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:30.119
the crash and what people were seeing. Now, Bob, So there were

286
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.799
people that actually ventured into deep into
the woods where the sin crash right,

287
00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:41.559
Yes, And the witnesses you spoke
to or you heard speak at the mall

288
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.480
that evening, were any of them
people that actually went into the woods.

289
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.720
Yes, according to what these two
witnesses, and they were both gentlemen.

290
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:56.400
According to what I overheard that day
at the mall, both of them actually

291
00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:02.920
wandered into the woods right after the
eject landed. But it appeared like they

292
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:08.720
were on opposite sides of the object. One the one male individual was by

293
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:15.440
himself and the other individual was with
a group of friends. And they allegedly

294
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:22.119
had flash cameras with them. H
I'd never heard that part, So did

295
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:29.319
they did? Were pictures taken now
at that event in nineteen eighty seven?

296
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:34.359
Yes, the witness claimed that they
were taking pictures of the object that fell,

297
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:45.799
And that witness claimed that the bright
flashes that the first witness saw were

298
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:52.519
possibly coming from the flashbulbs on the
cameras that he and his friends were using

299
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.119
that night. But as you know, like later on when I was doing

300
00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:03.920
my research, their indications that there
was a strobe light on the device on

301
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:08.240
the film bucket that was actually in
the woods that night, so that also

302
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:14.960
would have been causing those bright arcing
lights to appear. But one witness did

303
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.640
claim that he and his friends had
snuck into the woods before the police and

304
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:22.200
the military got there, and they
did have cameras with them, and they

305
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:27.920
took pictures of them. And this
was probably again eighty seven might have been

306
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:34.319
this might have been the very first
witnesses to ever testify about seeing something at

307
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:42.559
Kexburg that night. When these people
were in there, there was the military

308
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:48.119
came right, yes, they now
the military got there. It's a there's

309
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:53.680
a discrepancy is how quickly they got
there. They got there pretty quickly after

310
00:27:53.759 --> 00:28:02.559
the object that a semi soft landing
in the woods, and allegedly they haulted

311
00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:10.319
away, the military haulted away.
So if this thing can be explained as

312
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:14.319
the satellite, you know, we're
going to get more into that. Why

313
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:21.160
all the secrecy can you explain why
that was the way, yes handled the

314
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:26.319
way it was. I can from
my research in a couple of different ways.

315
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:34.119
The one thing is that there was
a satellite program known as the Corona

316
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:41.400
satellite program that existed that time.
At that time, it was top secret,

317
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.440
so no one knew anything about it. And that program existed from about

318
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:53.960
nineteen fifty nine to nineteen seventy two. And that program was a spy satellite

319
00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:02.119
program where the satellites were launched mostly
from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California,

320
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:08.000
and then they took photographs of places
in Russia and China and so forth that

321
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:14.960
the United States was interested in.
And that was a top secret program,

322
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:22.200
and that's one reason that they wouldn't
they wouldn't tell anyone because these top secret

323
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:32.279
programs didn't become declassified until nineteen ninety
six. I think it was not the

324
00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:34.039
same go ahead, you have a
question, no, no, no,

325
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:40.960
go ahead. At the same time
I found out that they were the Air

326
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:47.359
Force and the CIA were co producers
of the Corona program. At the same

327
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:52.880
time, I found out that Corona, some Corona satellites were being used to

328
00:29:52.920 --> 00:30:00.240
test the radioactivity in the atmosphere because
Russia, the United States, and China

329
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:06.480
we're exploding essentially atomic bombs in the
atmosphere, and they were trying to keep

330
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:15.079
track of how heavy the radioactivity was
getting. Now that's on two reasons they

331
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:19.519
could have been using that. Okay, now I think I heard you say

332
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:23.720
just a few minutes ago, the
film bucket. I know that they used

333
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:29.799
to, you know, take the
images vas satellite and drop the film.

334
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:36.559
This is not what you're thinking.
This particular case was just a film bucket,

335
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:40.079
is it? Or is it?
It was a film bucket, but

336
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:48.319
it was also the film buckets inside
of a recovery vehicle. The recovery vehicle

337
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:52.359
was almost looks like a nose code. It's also a type of a capsule.

338
00:30:52.039 --> 00:31:00.200
And the recovery vehicles have not only
retro rockets, but they also have

339
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:11.400
stabilization jets and they can be steered. Okay, so that explains the case

340
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:22.079
of it taking a zig zag in
the sky exactly. And so how how

341
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:25.680
did it come down though, and
in such a you know, um,

342
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:29.279
you know, an auroral area,
but still somewhere where it could have caused

343
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:37.039
a damage. Did something fail?
I don't know that something failed there.

344
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:45.759
They did have a double parachute system, and uh, witnesses that heard the

345
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:52.400
recovery vehicle passing overhead about two hundred
feet could hear it hissing, so it

346
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:59.519
was using its stabilization, that was
using bottled type gas to power it as

347
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:02.920
well. Witnesses could hear it hissing, so that could have slowed it up.

348
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:07.640
And it also had a double parachute
system which it would have deployed.

349
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:19.039
And that double parachute system had four
like they were like explosives that were tied

350
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:24.839
to these devices that would have ejected
the parachute out of the recovery vehicle.

351
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:30.400
So you had those two things going
for it that could have slowed it down.

352
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:34.960
And also the trees that were the
trees. Some of the trees were

353
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:39.200
damaged, but it could have gotten
to that speed where it could have landed

354
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:45.160
without too much damage. So some
of just posted in the message board,

355
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:49.559
which I think is a good question. So obviously, if the military showed

356
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:52.680
up there, they were tracking,
they were tracking. What was going on

357
00:32:53.839 --> 00:33:00.319
obviously is that so yes, sir, they had the bucket also had a

358
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:06.759
type of tracking device on it.
It had an antenna and a tracking device

359
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.640
that was part of the film bucket
itself, so that's how they could have

360
00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:15.519
tracked it the whole time. Well, this is you know, so it

361
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:21.559
was definitely a UFO for the people
that watched it because it was unidentified to

362
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:27.279
them. Yeah, and what about
now, are there some people that are

363
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:35.000
just hanging on tightly to the scene
being you know, either extraterrestrial or you

364
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:40.119
know, just a plane UFO unknown, or are people more or less coming

365
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:49.119
around to the idea that this was
some type of satellite funny You should say

366
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:59.720
that because after I did my presentation
at the International UFO Congress, I thought

367
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:02.240
there was going to be quite a
few people bothered by the fact that I,

368
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:07.039
you know, and I had all
the evidence because I had over four

369
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:14.159
hundred slides and so forth of the
research that I did, and not one

370
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:19.480
person complained. In fact, several
people thanked me, came up afterwards and

371
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:27.360
thanked me for solving that riddle so
great, And even I had attorneys and

372
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:31.480
law professors coming up that day or
the day after I presented, and everyone

373
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:37.960
said, you know, thank you
for solving that that mystery. And you

374
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:43.599
know, up until a few years
ago, I was always tossed between it

375
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:50.639
was some type of deep space probe
or possibly a UFO from another planet of

376
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:54.639
some sort. But actually I just
by chance, for some other research I

377
00:34:54.679 --> 00:35:01.079
was doing for another presentation in Texas, I started running across us the information

378
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:07.599
that was declassified and it fit like
a t It just kept coming at me.

379
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:15.960
I have like thousands of pages of
documentation that shows that that's probably what

380
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:21.000
it was. All right. So
there's there's some people that have written books

381
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:25.920
on you know, the Kexburg as
a UFO. Um, do you know

382
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:32.519
if they're actually still hanging onto the
idea or do you think that uh?

383
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:37.360
You know, I know how people
get, uh, they get vested in

384
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:39.239
like a story and they don't want
to give up that idea. Have you

385
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:46.480
had any backlash from anyone? None? In fact, right before there was

386
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:52.440
there was an article that I put
together that was published in the UFO Chronicle

387
00:35:54.119 --> 00:36:00.159
that explained, you know, what
I found in my research, and I

388
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:05.079
let everybody know that I was going
to have this article published. They gave

389
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:10.840
them a heads up and just to
you out of a professional courtesy, and

390
00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:20.760
not one person complained. I even
contacted the tom the Kesburg the fire department

391
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:24.880
there that has a number posted and
I let them know that Hey, you

392
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:28.960
know, I mean before this goes
out, I want to let you know.

393
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:31.360
And here's a you know, here's
what I'm going to be saying in

394
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:37.159
my report, and no way even
got back to me. Now they have

395
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:40.480
a monument there there. Someone spent
some money on a monument. Yes,

396
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:47.559
yeah, so wow. And I
think it's great that when a case,

397
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:52.079
even though you know this is going
back some some years. Have you heard

398
00:36:52.119 --> 00:37:01.599
from any of the witnesses you have
the Kexburg events, Yeah, not that

399
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:07.760
I can recall. No, I
have not heard back. I would think

400
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:13.360
that those people, if anyone at
all, would really like to know about,

401
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.119
you know, the decoding of what
actually happened, and you know,

402
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:22.400
just to kind of put it behind
them. Well, there there is one

403
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:31.360
witness and I don't want to mention
his name that I spoke with because I

404
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:42.599
also let him know about what my
report and he agreed with me. Oh

405
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:49.320
well that's good. That's good.
Now what about you their stories? Of

406
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:54.079
course, And there's one of the
stories that you hear about Kecksburg as this

407
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:58.679
thing going to right field. I
think it was called I don't know if

408
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:01.400
it's right Patterson, And yes,
it was okay, so it goes there

409
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:09.039
supposedly, Um, someone talks about
a hanger being guarded and walking in and

410
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:15.559
seeing an alien arm hanging off of
a table. Now this is all from

411
00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:20.639
memory from talking to other people.
I may have some things wrong about this

412
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:23.880
case, and so forgive me if
that's so. But have you looked at

413
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:35.840
any part of that Yes, and
the let's call it the film pocket.

414
00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:46.239
The it was actually it was a
gold plated egcorn shaped device that was transported

415
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:52.639
to Wright Patterson Air Force Base.
So I did some research and that's this

416
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:59.000
is what really turned the case for
me. As I think I mentioned earlier,

417
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:02.519
I did my doctor work at Penn
State. Yes, and Penn's State

418
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:13.559
has a nuclear reactor there not most
universities don't have one. And I when

419
00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:16.000
I was doing my doctor work,
I had to put three terms on that

420
00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:22.559
main campus, so I, you
know, hung around the nuclear reactor quite

421
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:30.840
a bit. That's why I have
such a glowing personality. But the whole

422
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:42.159
idea was that the Penn State was
the leader in nuclear waste control at that

423
00:39:42.199 --> 00:39:49.320
time, and the doctor Eric Walker
was heading that up. And during the

424
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.679
time of the Kexburg incident, doctor
Walker was also president of Penn State,

425
00:39:55.719 --> 00:40:04.039
and he was actually cited at the
Kesburg landing site that night in December nineteen

426
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:13.320
sixty five, and he was supervising
the removal of anything that would have been

427
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:17.920
contained in that film bucket. And
there were also witnesses to claim that they

428
00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:23.400
saw people in what they called moon
suits, which were radiation protection suits,

429
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:30.519
walking around in the woods of Caxberg
that evening, and they were also carrying

430
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:35.119
large boxes, and I during my
research, I found out that those large

431
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:42.000
boxes were used to put radioactive materials
in just in case they were doing radioactive

432
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:52.719
or nuclear or nuclear eman experiments on
those in those film buckets, which they

433
00:40:52.760 --> 00:41:00.079
were. So they actually then transported
that recovery view called the film bucket to

434
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:07.800
right Patterson Air Force Base, and
somebody did see it there and a hangar,

435
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:15.320
and it was the device was sitting
in such a way that there was

436
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:20.800
like a parachute device, you know, it was it was underneath a parachute

437
00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:28.480
device. So I found photographs of
another film bucket on display at a science

438
00:41:28.519 --> 00:41:34.360
conference and it was on display under
a parachute. The parachute was above it

439
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:38.920
and the film bucket was beneath it. So you're thinking when that person peered

440
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:44.239
into the hangar, they were seeing
basically the film bucket with a parachute over

441
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:49.760
it. Yes, but no arm
dangling. I guess that No, No,

442
00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:53.519
I didn't the arm. The only
thing that the arm could have been.

443
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:59.880
Ok. I went through this as
a possibility because there could have been

444
00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:07.000
a variety of different nuclear experiments on
board that film bucket, because the NASA

445
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:15.440
and the government did not describe that
experiment like other experiments. I looked at

446
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:22.159
every single that launch of a Coronas
satellite that I could get a hold of,

447
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:27.519
and most of them had the nuclear
experiments that were inside. They had

448
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:31.840
them described. This is the only
flight that I found, the only mission

449
00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:38.519
I found that did not have the
nuclear experiment described. So I went through

450
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:44.559
a whole scenario of I found out
the kind of nuclear experiments that could have

451
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:47.760
been on board that satellite, and
one of them was they were doing experiments

452
00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:53.199
with monkeys. Oh no, yeah, they weren't going to drive him or

453
00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:59.920
anything like that, but they were
putting monkeys in these types of bucket.

454
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:07.960
It's along with some type of radioactive
material to see how radiation and the cosmic

455
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:13.960
radiation would affect a monkey. And
I found pictures of these monkeys while they

456
00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:19.960
were still at home, and they
were wearing a type of suit that looked

457
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:22.880
like it was made on a chain
nail. But I guess protect the monkey

458
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:29.320
in case the capsule caught on fire. And so the only thing I could

459
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:31.079
think of is that maybe they trained
the monkey that you know, there could

460
00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:36.519
have been a monkey in one of
those experiments that they trained to open up

461
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:42.840
the capsule somehow. But you know, I don't know that for sure,

462
00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:45.840
but that's the only way I could
think of that kind of an arm sticking

463
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:52.239
up. Wow, So that's a
possibility. And now, how many of

464
00:43:52.280 --> 00:44:00.000
these Corona satellites in particular did you
find out that were launched? Oh,

465
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:05.440
they were like, I don't have
my numbers in him, but it was

466
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:08.159
like one hundred and forty two hundred
I think they were close to It was

467
00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:14.280
somewhere around two hundred that were launched
from fifty nine to seventy two, and

468
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:20.440
there were quite a few that didn't
return. Oh. I was going to

469
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:27.199
ask you that. The second question
is were there any other incidents that you

470
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:31.280
know you're aware of that were similar
to Kecksburg or did things go into the

471
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:36.199
ocean? I mean, you're seventy
percent water. Well, someone into the

472
00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:42.400
ocean. But there was one that
went into Venezuela. Oh, and the

473
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:49.440
farmers found it and returned it.
It wasn't recovered. It was returned,

474
00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:53.519
and I have photographs of that.
Oh my god. So did they were

475
00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:58.239
they you know, checked out for
radiation poisoning or anything? Do you know?

476
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:04.280
Probably not by the time they found
it. I was reading some reports

477
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:13.079
that one of the farmers that found
it, they took the silk parachute chords

478
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:22.039
and they made suspenders out of it. Wow. So I haven't heard what

479
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:24.800
happened to him. Yeah, but
there were there. It was. It

480
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:30.199
was totally. It was funny because
like after that event, they started putting

481
00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:37.280
signs on the film buckets in eight
different languages saying that there would be a

482
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:42.960
reward if you return this to the
United States. Ah. Now, people

483
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.960
did report that they saw, but
I thought it was like hieroglyphics or something.

484
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:54.400
Well, they reported there was reporting
of seeing symbols around the base of

485
00:45:54.400 --> 00:46:02.119
that acorn. Now I did him
for the research, and the people reported

486
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:07.039
that there were circles and stars,
were dots in the center, and straight

487
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:14.360
lines and broken lines that were making
up those symbols. Well, the Phillips

488
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:22.880
Laboratory was in charge of the nuclear
experiment that was on board that recovery vehicle,

489
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:29.360
and their symbols were they used what's
called you know, you're familiar with

490
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:34.880
the Z a symbol from being in
the you know, the Southwest and also

491
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:39.199
that, so that could have been
their their symbol and their their company.

492
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:45.239
The Phillips Laboratory symbol used the ZA
symbol and stars with circles in the center.

493
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:49.800
So they could have been those symbols
that were etched onto the base of

494
00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:59.719
the film bucket. Because I did
find reports of the satellite preparers writing on

495
00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:04.920
the film buckets labeling them to let
anybody who recover the film bucket know what

496
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:09.719
was inside of that film bucket.
I see it wasn't unusual to have some

497
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:15.719
kind of symbols on in the buckets. Okay, So someone mentioned there's a

498
00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:20.559
couple of things coming up in the
chat. We're going to break in about

499
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:25.079
four minutes. So I do want
to just ask someone did mention that there

500
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:30.719
are reports of the eyewitnesses saying that
there were no seams, They saw no

501
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:34.679
seams, no rivets or anything like
that. Do you think it's just the

502
00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:37.559
angle they were looking at, or
where did you think when you came across

503
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:43.679
that part of it? The film
buckets themselves were layers of like a synthetic

504
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:46.440
plastic and gold. It was actually
gold plated. It was smooth. There

505
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:52.199
were no rivets, nothing like that
on it. So it was a perfectly

506
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:59.000
shiny, smooth gold a corn shaped
object. Okay, so we have we

507
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:02.440
have Bobby regular listener in our chat
room, and he's making a pretty good

508
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:07.559
point. And I think so anyway, and that is he says he's not

509
00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:12.679
buying the theory, and I'm not
saying that I'm not buying it, but

510
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.119
this part I do agree with him. The government would have come out long

511
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:20.679
ago and said sorry, this was
ours, had nothing, you know,

512
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:23.719
nothing to do with the UFO.
How come the government? You know,

513
00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:28.320
it's been what fifty three years now, So why did the government come out

514
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:31.920
and say, hey, look this
was ours. It's declassified now all that

515
00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:40.079
stuff. The NR National Inconnaissance Office, they're kind of in charge of that,

516
00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:45.039
and I checked with them back in
two thousand and seven and they said

517
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:51.199
they a lot of their projects are
still classified. Really, Oh yes,

518
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:57.400
if and I have the evidence that
shows that. Also, here's another thing

519
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:00.639
to think about. Let's say that
one of the experiments they were doing nuclear

520
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:09.000
experiments at that time, they were
putting small atomic bombs inside those film buckets,

521
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:16.840
not big ones, but small one
and those if they were using atomic

522
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:23.400
bombs for that experiment, which was
not described, they still cannot release that

523
00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:30.719
information. That's crazy that they would
do something like that. They did it

524
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:39.320
all the time. What's what's out
about Tchsberg is the Chinese exploded an atomic

525
00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:45.559
bomb larger than the one that was
used in Japan on May fourteenth of nineteen

526
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:54.199
sixty five. They dropped it and
dropped it where in Japan, but it

527
00:49:54.519 --> 00:50:01.400
was still air dropped, and they
would have caused the fact that because paulverised

528
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:07.840
platonium to go into the atmosphere.
Wow. So that's my thinking is that

529
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:12.800
they could have been trying to measure
how much damage that bomb did just a

530
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:17.320
few months before the Kecksberg its gonna
happened. I see, Wow, and

531
00:50:17.559 --> 00:50:22.079
those things were still a secret.
Wow. Okay, So we're coming up

532
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:28.400
on the break here in a minute, and we I do want to talk

533
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:31.639
about Kecksburg a little bit longer.
But also I know that you were saying

534
00:50:31.719 --> 00:50:37.320
that there's some type of relationship between
Kesburg and Roswell. So when we get

535
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:42.599
into that in the second hour.
So all right, so we're coming up

536
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:46.679
on the break and you're listening to
podcast UFO on kg R A Radio.

537
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:54.320
All right, I think it's interesting
and you're fairly you're fairly convinced that you

538
00:50:54.400 --> 00:51:00.480
figured out that this is what fits. Now let me ask you about this.

539
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:06.039
Um, I think it was I
know it was John Ventry together with

540
00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:08.559
someone else, and I'm sorry they
were both on the show. They had

541
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:14.400
a different satellite, a GE satellite, right, I mean that they were

542
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:20.599
thinking was something what's that Mark two
ge? Right? And this had nothing

543
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:29.800
to do with that in your opinion. I had some lengthy discussions with one

544
00:51:29.840 --> 00:51:35.599
of those two gentlemen, and at
the end of what we were comparing notes

545
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:43.119
and they agreed that my solution fit
better. Oh isn't that That's so nice

546
00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:47.000
to hear? And I have it
in writing. You're a smart man.

547
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:54.000
Wow, So you release it.
Yeah. Now, they were actually on

548
00:51:54.320 --> 00:52:00.119
my show and they debated Stan Gordon. Now I heard that show. Now

549
00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:02.119
you listened to the show, So
yeah, and what do you think?

550
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:07.239
What is Stan Gordon thinking these days, what's his what's his stand on it?

551
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:09.320
Now? As far as you know, can you answer that, I

552
00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:17.280
have no idea. I I had
talked to Stand a couple of years ago

553
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:22.960
and emailed him when I was living
in Texas because I was thinking about starting

554
00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:35.519
a collaborative where of people who were
basically individuals who use the scientific method to

555
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:40.519
solve phenomena. And I started collaborating
with him when I was living in Texas,

556
00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:45.840
and back then we were he was
asking me if I had any new

557
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:52.760
ideas about the Kesburg incident, and
I mentioned to him. I think I

558
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:58.119
mentioned to him about, you know, the doctor Eric Walker being there,

559
00:52:58.639 --> 00:53:04.159
but I hadn't pursued that yet,
so I know he was still looking at

560
00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:08.599
the Kecksburg case. And this would
have been around two thousand and thirteen.

561
00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:16.920
I had some email communications with them
and uh but I and I like I

562
00:53:17.679 --> 00:53:24.199
when I was ready to release that
article, I did contact the fire There

563
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:30.559
was a there was a number on
Stand Gordon's website and it said to call

564
00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:34.440
that number if you had any other
information. And I called him and said,

565
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:39.039
hey, get ready, I'm getting
to release this and they said they

566
00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:45.440
get backed me. And they never
did so, I would stand stands a

567
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:50.320
very thorough and reasonable guy. So
as far you know, every time I've

568
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:52.800
talked to him, which he's been
on the show, I think four or

569
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:59.920
five times, very reasonable, intelligent, Um. I think that he would

570
00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:02.599
be happy, you know, next
time I talked to him. I don't

571
00:54:02.599 --> 00:54:06.480
ask him, but I think that
he'd be happy that it's solved. I

572
00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:08.719
don't think that he would be one
of these people that tries to hang on

573
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:15.199
to, you know, older thoughts. He never he always had that it

574
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:21.199
could have been a mad made object
in his possible solutions. As far as

575
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:24.079
I've known him, I'll be honest
with you, I was a little disappointed

576
00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:30.400
in his approach to John Ventry that
show that you had, because there's some

577
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:36.039
things that I know the stand doesn't
know that should have not been you know,

578
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:39.559
included in the mix. And I
don't want to talk about those,

579
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:46.239
but there are some things that I
felt bad for John Ventry a bit because

580
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:52.440
there's some there's some other things that
I've found out that go deeper into what

581
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:57.039
they were talking about. I see, well, we're going to be talking

582
00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:02.400
about of course kex Berg as it
as as we go along here, when

583
00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:07.519
it comes to the Roswell case.
But let's let's jump into that. UM.

584
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:12.079
I don't think that there's any reason
at all we have to explain what

585
00:55:12.199 --> 00:55:15.800
happened or what supposedly happened at Roswell. I think, you know, as

586
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:22.840
far as the United States goes,
there's no other case so well known.

587
00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:28.639
So I guess, well, this
happened up you know, around in July

588
00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:34.480
early July nineteen forty seven, just
a few weeks after the Kenneth Arnold sighting,

589
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:38.519
there was kind of UFO mania going
on. People were seeing saucers everywhere,

590
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:44.880
and I do believe people were seeing
something. And you know, there's

591
00:55:44.920 --> 00:55:52.159
people that have theories about how the
modern so called modern ufoh I don't want

592
00:55:52.199 --> 00:55:54.880
to say flap or movement or whatever, but you know, modern UFOs starting

593
00:55:54.920 --> 00:56:00.480
in nineteen forty seven. I know, spoken to Stan Freedman. He thinks

594
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:05.800
it's very possible that if it is
extraterrestrial, and he does think that some

595
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:13.679
UFOs. He always says, some
UFOs that they saw, you know,

596
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.360
our nuclear explosions, and you know
they came to see you know, the

597
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:22.119
kids found the matches, so they
came, you know, to explore us.

598
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:25.960
So that's one of the reasons.
Stan says, Um, he thinks,

599
00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:30.199
you know, the activity started in
nineteen forty seven. And by the

600
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:34.719
way, for those people that don't
know, Stan Freeman is going he's up

601
00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:37.480
eighty one. I think, um, he's going to be retiring very soon,

602
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:44.400
and I'm attempting to get him on
as a retirement show on this on

603
00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:50.679
podcast UFO upcoming. However, I
spoke to Kathy Marden. She says he

604
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:53.519
is going to retire. He doesn't
have you know, a retirement date,

605
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:59.920
you know, so to speak out
there as of yet. But so now

606
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:07.519
eighteen forty seven something happened, and
let's hear your side of it. You

607
00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:10.679
know, I wasn't born in the
nineteen forty eight, so I had nothing

608
00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:16.880
to do with it. Okay,
you're clear, just barely, yeah someone,

609
00:57:17.239 --> 00:57:22.599
yeah, but yeah, it's kind
of This whole thing is very interesting

610
00:57:22.719 --> 00:57:29.800
to me. You know this.
I love doing research and I've been it's

611
00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:35.159
it's on how I ran into the
whole idea of the Roswelt case because I

612
00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:38.760
never knew about Roswell. I knew
about Texpert because I saw it or heard

613
00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:44.280
it unfold on the car radio when
I was a kid. And how I

614
00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:46.920
found out about the Rosvelt case.
In the first place, I was doing

615
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:52.800
research for my doctoral degree at Penn
State at Petit Library, the main library.

616
00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:57.400
You may have these huge stacks of
books. This was before the Internet

617
00:57:57.559 --> 00:58:02.360
or anything. And I was looking
for some research about music and there was

618
00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:07.960
these these were such huge stacks of
books that the actually rumor was that someone

619
00:58:07.159 --> 00:58:12.840
was murdered in there. And you
know, I've got excuses. I wasn't

620
00:58:13.119 --> 00:58:16.400
the one, you know, and
they had. It was these huge stacks

621
00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:20.559
of books in the middle of nowhere, and I was doing research and I

622
00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:25.400
turned around behind me and there was
that Roswell book, I think, the

623
00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:31.599
one that was published around seventy eight
or so, I think William Moore and

624
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:37.280
yes, San Freeman and and so
I saw that it was like someone put

625
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:40.880
a spotlight in on it. So
I picked it up and I forgot all

626
00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:45.079
about what I was doing, and
I took that book over to one of

627
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:49.599
the little tables at the library,
read the whole book and didn't do what

628
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:52.320
I was supposed to do. Okay, So I was like nineteen eighty two,

629
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:59.880
but what so I've been researching that
and when I started doing the check

630
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:06.519
Spird case. I started noticing that
a pattern was starting to show up in

631
00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:10.199
the Kesburg case, so I wrote
down these points. Do you mind if

632
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:14.800
I read them to you? Go
ahead? Yeah, okay, So this

633
00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:16.920
is now, this is what I
found with the Kesburg case. These are

634
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:22.880
commonalities and elements from a pattern that
I found in the Kesburg case. And

635
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:28.519
I wasn't really looking for pattern,
but it showed up. But the first

636
00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:35.480
point was debris including unfamiliar space age
metallic materials was observed, was observed and

637
00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:42.800
recovered near the crash site. Another
characteristic the US government was involved. Third

638
00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:50.199
characteristic of the pattern. I found
at least two contemporary covert projects that collected

639
00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:57.559
secret data were entangled. Fourth,
at least one of those covert projects had

640
00:59:57.639 --> 01:00:04.519
a lengthy, multiple year research and
development cycle. Next, the government,

641
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:15.039
ufologists, skeptics and others contributed to
disseminating a rare combination of unreliable and conflicting

642
01:00:15.159 --> 01:00:24.559
information. And I think six extra
terrestrial hypotheses were proffered. And the seventh

643
01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:35.159
point, I think that seven a
failure of imagination seemed to permeate the initial

644
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:40.280
and subsequent investigations. Now that's only
part of the pattern. I found I

645
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:46.679
found other components to this pattern,
and I'm not releasing the get until the

646
01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:52.599
book comes out. But I found
those seven components in the Kexburg case.

647
01:00:52.840 --> 01:01:00.440
When I started looking at the Roswell
case, then since it was one of

648
01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:07.800
the one of my favorites, those
same seven points plus showed up plus.

649
01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:15.719
So we'll talk about the plus two. Um Uh Okay, so um here

650
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:22.840
here's here's the blanket argument that I
always have about um Roswell when it comes

651
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:30.039
to the fact of, you know, people arguing that Roswell was say,

652
01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:34.480
um, something military, you know, the mogul Uh, that's one of

653
01:01:34.519 --> 01:01:37.440
the explanations of the weather balloon or
and all that. Um. So,

654
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:44.519
my my blanket argument is that why
on earth, um will pull over the

655
01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:50.239
h the headline to the newspaper.
Um, So, why on earth would

656
01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:57.840
the R A A. F UM
even admit that they captured a flying saucer

657
01:01:58.519 --> 01:02:00.440
on the ranch? I mean,
and I'm gonna say, why would they

658
01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:06.320
admit it rather than say nothing at
all? Because they clearly didn't have to

659
01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:14.440
say anything at all. They Okay, this is about me. I've got

660
01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:16.719
to go to a little bit more
background about what I found, so I

661
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:22.639
can explain that there is a logical
I mean, there's a logical explanation that

662
01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:30.840
and the Roswell Army Airfield. Okay, that's that was located in Roswell.

663
01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:42.519
One thing that helps put the whole
Roswell let's call it incident in perspective,

664
01:02:43.480 --> 01:02:47.480
is New Mexico. And I don't
know how familiar you are with New New

665
01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:53.800
Mexico, but familiar and I lived
My first exposure to New Mexico was in

666
01:02:53.880 --> 01:03:00.480
two thousand and one, right after
the nine to eleven incident. That kind

667
01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:05.880
of shook me up quite a bit. So I joined. Since I never

668
01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:12.840
was in the armed forces officially,
I joined AmeriCorps. I quit basically put

669
01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:19.199
what I was doing as a professional
administrator on hold, and I joined Americorp,

670
01:03:19.239 --> 01:03:22.440
which is like the domestic Peace Corps. And that's where it took me

671
01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:28.199
to Los Cruces, New Mexico,
which is in the southern part of New

672
01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:32.400
Mexico, to work with AmeriCorps.
And I was in New Mexico from about

673
01:03:32.440 --> 01:03:36.960
two thousand and one to about two
thousand and ten, and I got to

674
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:40.599
travel all over that state working for
the government and other projects, and I

675
01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:46.039
talked with a lot of people and
met a lot of very interesting people.

676
01:03:46.599 --> 01:03:54.239
And New Mexico itself has a pretty
unique cowboy culture and you've got to figure

677
01:03:54.320 --> 01:04:03.239
that into the mix. That that's
an important part. And so the whole

678
01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:14.880
idea that in nineteen forty seven that
they were working on Project Mogul okay,

679
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:21.719
and actually Project Mogul was started in
nine around nineteen forty six, and Mogul

680
01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:31.159
was used to test to see if
the Russians or whomever were exploding atomic bombs

681
01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:36.400
in the atmosphere because it was like
kind of tracing, you know, in

682
01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:41.880
the ocean. Allegedly there's like an
acoustic channel that travels And there was one

683
01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:45.519
scientist that I believe his name was
Ewing. He came up with a concept

684
01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:47.880
and don't trust me on that name. I'm just don't winning my notes in

685
01:04:47.960 --> 01:04:51.400
front of me, but he came
up with the same idea that that kind

686
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:55.400
of thing could have been happening in
the air. So they were using this

687
01:04:55.599 --> 01:05:02.000
Project Mogul back then to see if
there were other explosions going on, atomic

688
01:05:02.079 --> 01:05:10.199
explosions in the atmosphere. Now I'm
saying that when I think crashed at Roswell

689
01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:15.199
was not Project Mogul, and it
was not a weather buller, but it

690
01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:23.679
was another secret project that they were
working on on that had to do with

691
01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:33.719
passive communications satellites. And that's what
fits the description of what was found on

692
01:05:33.880 --> 01:05:43.239
the ranch near Roswell. They didn't
there was I can't find anyone that actually

693
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:53.079
saw a flying saucer land and there
was no flying in Roswell and there was

694
01:05:53.159 --> 01:06:00.000
no flying saucer. Found that there
were parts of a metal substance that was

695
01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:04.880
kind of it was unique. It
was like a memory medal that was found

696
01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:11.360
there. And this was in nineteen
forty seven. Now, other things that

697
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:15.079
don't come up too often that I
can remember at all in any of the

698
01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:20.280
Roosevelt discussions is that there was another
person by a name of a doctor Robert

699
01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:25.800
H. Goddard to lived in New
Mexico, and he lived he had a

700
01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:32.840
ranch in Roswell, and he was
a rocket scientist. And to make a

701
01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:41.519
long story short, these since nineteen
forty five United States government was interested in

702
01:06:42.039 --> 01:06:48.880
these passive communications satellites and with those
passive communications satellites were referred to as satelloons.

703
01:06:49.599 --> 01:07:05.320
They were Paul ethylene high altitude balloons
that work with metal HM and that's

704
01:07:05.360 --> 01:07:11.960
what the Project Echo. If you
wear a Project Echo those satellites, that's

705
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:18.079
what Project Echo was. And according
to my research, they were experimenting on

706
01:07:18.519 --> 01:07:28.840
those Project Echo type prototypes back then. So I'm sorry, Okay, Well,

707
01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:31.239
a couple of things. First of
all, they're about I think it

708
01:07:31.400 --> 01:07:38.360
was something like sixty miles. Further, there was there's reports of you know,

709
01:07:38.559 --> 01:07:46.559
people possibly seeing some type of Voltwagen
sized object separate, h you know

710
01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:51.119
from all this, and you know, some people reported bodies and h you

711
01:07:51.199 --> 01:07:58.280
know, possibly one still alive,
and the thing we'll talk about as we

712
01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:04.079
go along here. But the government, of course lied. I'm sure you

713
01:08:04.159 --> 01:08:10.599
know about this at least I think
four or five times in different occasions.

714
01:08:11.119 --> 01:08:15.239
And so that's you know, I
want to kind of unravel why do you

715
01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:20.119
think they lied, even back in
the nineteen nineties. But before we get

716
01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:23.439
into that part of it, though, let's keep going. I want to

717
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:30.239
hear more about the materials of this
particular I guess you wouldn't call it a

718
01:08:30.279 --> 01:08:35.760
satellite or it's high altitude balloons and
go ahead, Yeah, yeah, it

719
01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:44.960
was technically back then, there was
a science fiction writer in nineteen forty five.

720
01:08:45.039 --> 01:08:50.520
I think his name was Clark,
and he came up with a concept

721
01:08:50.840 --> 01:09:01.680
of these They were considered to be
passive communications satellites. What they would do

722
01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:11.079
is basically there were these huge satellites
eventually that they would bounce microwave signals off

723
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:16.399
of or whatever. And again I
found government reports that reported that in nineteen

724
01:09:16.479 --> 01:09:20.199
forty five, this was written about
it, and they already had the idea

725
01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:27.439
proposed. But even in nineteen forty
two there were people that were talking about

726
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:32.640
taking signals and bouncing them off of
I think it was Venus and back as

727
01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:39.199
communications satellites, because it was much
cheaper to do that than to run a

728
01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:46.000
what's it called a subatlantic cable or
whatever. And so I again I found

729
01:09:46.119 --> 01:09:50.960
all these many thousands of pages of
reports this I'm basing this all on my

730
01:09:51.119 --> 01:09:56.720
reports, not making any of this
up, and it's all documented. So

731
01:09:57.640 --> 01:10:01.399
in nineteen forty five, that whole
idea was in the mix, and the

732
01:10:01.640 --> 01:10:09.319
United States government made that a top
priority because one thing, there weren't any

733
01:10:09.479 --> 01:10:15.119
The United States hadn't launched any satellites
yet in nineteen forty five, right,

734
01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:19.279
and there were there were studies that
came out. It might have been from

735
01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:24.479
the Rand Corporation, but I'm not
sure that said. If the United States

736
01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:29.439
would launch a satellite of some sort, that would be a real feather in

737
01:10:29.560 --> 01:10:35.279
our cap and also it would be
for the whole idea of world peace.

738
01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:44.560
The ability of the world communicating with
each other could be completed with these I

739
01:10:44.840 --> 01:10:51.439
believe three passive communications satellites. And
what these satellites were, they were just

740
01:10:51.640 --> 01:11:00.880
gay basically big balloons that were coated
with metal, and that's that's what that's

741
01:11:00.960 --> 01:11:05.439
all. Really. The Project Echo
was and you know, in fifties,

742
01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:14.239
so and there were proposals and there
were committees and panels that had to approve

743
01:11:14.600 --> 01:11:20.880
these let's call them sataloons and how
they were designed. So they were they

744
01:11:20.960 --> 01:11:29.079
were already in the works at that
time. And in my opinion, going

745
01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:33.359
back to Project Mogul, which they
didn't explain until I think it was nineteen

746
01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:41.000
ninety five or ninety six, that
that didn't come forward as a possible solution

747
01:11:41.119 --> 01:11:45.479
to what landed it was were crashed
it as well until nineteen ninety six,

748
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:49.159
So it was all that time they
let people think what it was, you

749
01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:51.680
know, they just tried to come
up with what it was. They didn't

750
01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:58.560
tell anyone that I can figure out. So the whole idea was that they

751
01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:04.760
were already experiment manning with a type
of what we would call today Myler m

752
01:12:05.880 --> 01:12:12.159
that and Myler really didn't wasn't perfected
totally until the sixties. But before that,

753
01:12:12.279 --> 01:12:15.239
in the fifties day I had something
called bo PET, and before in

754
01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:18.479
the fifth before the fifties, in
the forties, they had something called pet

755
01:12:19.199 --> 01:12:26.159
was which was a type of polyethelene
material. I can't pronounce the second part

756
01:12:26.199 --> 01:12:30.239
of it, so it's it's called
PET balloons, and they were they were

757
01:12:30.279 --> 01:12:35.640
in place, and since nineteen forty
one the product PET. Now, to

758
01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:42.119
make get a long story short,
you know when the regular weather balloons they

759
01:12:42.199 --> 01:12:45.119
try to claim it was first they
pred to claim that Roswell was first a

760
01:12:45.159 --> 01:12:49.600
weather balloon. Well, first,
getting back to the point I made.

761
01:12:49.680 --> 01:12:54.880
First, they said it was a
flying saucer. And that's I want to

762
01:12:54.960 --> 01:12:59.319
know why they would say that.
I mean, what's your thoughts are You're

763
01:12:59.359 --> 01:13:01.840
getting there? Okay, oh yeah, I'll do this. I'll do that

764
01:13:01.960 --> 01:13:08.880
now so you won't be in suspense. Okay, no, okay, here's

765
01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:13.039
why I was getting there. But
I was taking the longer round on the

766
01:13:13.119 --> 01:13:27.560
long whil What yeah, yeah,
but what okay? So these passive communications

767
01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:31.600
satellites, they needed to be made
out of a material like miler. These

768
01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:41.199
are precursors to miler. And those
technically balloons were made out of a flat,

769
01:13:42.920 --> 01:13:51.520
flexible, non expansive material called pet
back then that was they they learned

770
01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:58.600
how to coat with aluminum. Okay, And they couldn't make them into a

771
01:13:58.840 --> 01:14:05.880
sphere at first. They made them
by taking two pieces of round material and

772
01:14:05.960 --> 01:14:11.800
then some outwelding those two pieces together. So when you blow that up with

773
01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:17.079
air or whatever, it doesn't have
a sphere. It looks like a disc.

774
01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:20.279
If you see, you know,
if you look at today's even Myer

775
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:26.159
balloons, they don't look perfectly round
like a rubber boy. If you take

776
01:14:26.159 --> 01:14:28.800
a look at them, those kind
they look a little bit like a disc.

777
01:14:30.439 --> 01:14:35.399
So those early balloons, I got
some kind of symbols that right in

778
01:14:35.479 --> 01:14:44.159
front of me. So I don't
they're agreeing or those early balloons up until

779
01:14:44.319 --> 01:14:54.239
nineteen oh fifty something, Okay,
we're disc shaped. So even and then

780
01:14:54.319 --> 01:15:00.399
the article that the science fiction writer
Clark wrote in the nineteen forty five and

781
01:15:00.520 --> 01:15:08.880
that's published and it's out there.
His article is titled extra Terrestrial Relays,

782
01:15:11.239 --> 01:15:15.600
so they were actually referring to it. And what those relays were were these

783
01:15:15.720 --> 01:15:24.720
big disc shaped satellons and he wrote
them up. So technically, if you

784
01:15:25.479 --> 01:15:29.079
once you've got one of those,
let's call them, for lack of better

785
01:15:29.119 --> 01:15:33.439
words, a minor balloon, and
it was coated with aluminium and it was

786
01:15:33.560 --> 01:15:42.760
flying, it technically was an extra
terrestrial flying disc. And that's what they

787
01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:49.000
were described as back in the nineteen
forties, So someone could have they wouldn't

788
01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:55.439
have been lying, but it would
have been an extra terrestrial meaning it was

789
01:15:55.720 --> 01:16:00.359
they were designed to be off of
the Earth and the whole I think Clark's

790
01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:06.720
original concepts would have three of those, and that would serve for communication systems

791
01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:17.520
for the entire world. So these
balloons, these saloons would have been extra

792
01:16:17.800 --> 01:16:27.159
terrestrial flying discs that were aluminium coated
polyethylene to some extent. Now, were

793
01:16:27.199 --> 01:16:33.239
there supposedly ropes tom to a balloon
or was this all was the actually was

794
01:16:33.319 --> 01:16:38.840
the helium or whatever gas they were
using at the time, Was that actually

795
01:16:38.920 --> 01:16:44.119
in that disc shape object they're talking
about. Whatever they were, they would

796
01:16:44.119 --> 01:16:51.079
have been experimenting with things inside that
flying extraterrestrial flying disc there would they would

797
01:16:51.079 --> 01:16:57.239
have been something to cause it to
go up. Okay, in our atmosphere,

798
01:16:57.319 --> 01:17:01.119
they wouldn't have needed that same stuff
was in a high altitude. So

799
01:17:01.319 --> 01:17:09.800
they were testing some of those polyethylene
balloons, plated metal plated, metalized balloons.

800
01:17:10.359 --> 01:17:14.319
They were testing them to see how
high they could go, would happen

801
01:17:14.479 --> 01:17:16.680
with air pressure inside, and so
forth, because this was a whole new

802
01:17:17.199 --> 01:17:23.960
ball game for the people working with
those and they had a person that they

803
01:17:24.079 --> 01:17:30.960
brought in to work on making those
balloons. Now you obviously found all this

804
01:17:31.119 --> 01:17:38.560
information I'm assuming online it's just through
government or how did you? Where did

805
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:43.079
you find all this information? I
can't tell you that. I'm just kidding.

806
01:17:45.199 --> 01:17:49.960
Your screen's going to go black again, yeah again. But all these

807
01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:58.199
were government reports that I found that
were I think they were declassified. Plus

808
01:17:59.439 --> 01:18:01.920
I lived in Roswell, you know, not not I didn't live in Roswell,

809
01:18:02.000 --> 01:18:06.800
but I was on an anti gang
task force that met in Roswell.

810
01:18:08.840 --> 01:18:14.359
So when I and I had been
to Roswell quite a few times, and

811
01:18:14.520 --> 01:18:18.560
I talked to people in Roswell who
were connected to you know, whole New

812
01:18:18.640 --> 01:18:25.239
Mexico is connected to the whole space
program. I mean, it's it's a

813
01:18:25.359 --> 01:18:28.960
big that the New Mexico, that
a lot of things were done there,

814
01:18:29.640 --> 01:18:35.680
and I actually spoke with people that
confirmed what I was talking about was true.

815
01:18:36.680 --> 01:18:43.159
And on top of that, they
would have needed Now Robert Goddard who

816
01:18:43.359 --> 01:18:47.560
lived on a ranch in Roswell that
I hardly ever hear anyone talk about now,

817
01:18:47.720 --> 01:18:56.159
even though he died in nineteen forty
five, he was working on rockets,

818
01:18:58.079 --> 01:19:02.720
and he was working with a team
of individuals on rockets. The way

819
01:19:02.880 --> 01:19:13.159
the passive communications satellite system was designed, they would have had to launch those

820
01:19:13.279 --> 01:19:23.239
into a high altitude space in those
rockets. And around nineteen fifty nine they

821
01:19:23.319 --> 01:19:33.439
were experimenting with that and one of
the satelloons exploded because it didn't unfold properly.

822
01:19:35.079 --> 01:19:38.960
Got you gotta fold this great,
big, hundred foot balloon into like

823
01:19:39.119 --> 01:19:46.399
the size of a oatmeal can.
And what it exploded, The same kind

824
01:19:46.439 --> 01:19:54.079
of material was disseminated around the East
Coast that they found on that ranch in

825
01:19:54.279 --> 01:20:00.159
Rosville. All Right, well,
you know, I'm I'm listening. I'm

826
01:20:00.199 --> 01:20:06.960
not you know, I'm I'm being
open minded about this, and uh,

827
01:20:08.119 --> 01:20:12.640
you know, it really would be
interesting after all these years if you actually

828
01:20:12.760 --> 01:20:16.439
had an idea what's going on?
You know, Uh, there's a lot

829
01:20:16.520 --> 01:20:21.079
of witnesses that have you know,
firsthand witnesses. There's not too many left

830
01:20:21.159 --> 01:20:32.399
right now. But so this h
Jesse Marcel was stating someone who put this

831
01:20:32.520 --> 01:20:35.479
in chat He was stating, there
was no way that you know, he

832
01:20:35.520 --> 01:20:40.000
could hit it with a hammer,
He couldn't dent it, but it would

833
01:20:40.039 --> 01:20:44.479
fold and then fold back. Are
you saying that these are the properties of

834
01:20:44.640 --> 01:20:46.680
this uh? I forget what you
called it, like pet or whatever it

835
01:20:46.840 --> 01:20:53.479
was, uh pre milar the prototype
that they would have been working on would

836
01:20:53.560 --> 01:20:57.279
be able to do that. In
fact, I have testimonies of other witnesses.

837
01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:01.920
There's only a handful of whist that
actually handled those materials that day.

838
01:21:02.479 --> 01:21:08.680
And technically, when you go back
to the whole Rosbo incident, that's all

839
01:21:08.800 --> 01:21:15.960
they had were the people sating that
that that odd mettle must have come from

840
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:20.199
a flying saucer. But at least
one of the witnesses that handled that material

841
01:21:20.479 --> 01:21:27.560
that day said that it was not
extra terrestrial in nature, that it was

842
01:21:28.079 --> 01:21:31.479
you know, something from Earth,
and that they were you know, there's

843
01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:36.960
evidence that they were experimenting with those
kind of materials back then. No one

844
01:21:38.079 --> 01:21:45.800
just knew it. I even have
photographs of discs that are aluminum coded inflatable

845
01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:51.239
discs from you know, back when
they were doing the prototypes and working on

846
01:21:51.319 --> 01:21:55.920
them, and they were different sizes
you know, before they got to the

847
01:21:56.000 --> 01:22:00.720
real big ones. But they they
really didn't get into a spherical shape totally

848
01:22:00.840 --> 01:22:05.079
until like the nineteen fifty So they
were there were discs for a while,

849
01:22:05.840 --> 01:22:12.000
and they kept on getting the metal
kept on getting more and more rigid.

850
01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:17.359
So they they had to have been
experimenting with that kind of a metal that

851
01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:23.079
was memory shape and they had to
have it do that. Uh you know

852
01:22:23.600 --> 01:22:28.119
at the time the Roswal incident happened, they would have had been experimenting with

853
01:22:28.399 --> 01:22:33.199
that for that project to have gone
on. Well, I understand, you

854
01:22:33.279 --> 01:22:40.680
know, the secrecy, but um, they supposedly like combed the field to

855
01:22:40.720 --> 01:22:45.680
get every single scrap of material up
um, and they went out of their

856
01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:50.560
way, according to some witnesses,
to confiscate anything that you know, people

857
01:22:50.680 --> 01:22:57.520
were squirreling away um. And that
just uh, it's kind of curious why

858
01:22:58.479 --> 01:23:02.479
material I know, it's experimental,
but nothing that it doesn't seem like it

859
01:23:02.520 --> 01:23:09.640
would be of top secret nature.
Why they would be so involved in making

860
01:23:09.640 --> 01:23:14.159
sure they got every last tiny little
scrap up of that. Do you think

861
01:23:14.199 --> 01:23:23.079
that it was that important? Yes, because again the research I've done,

862
01:23:23.399 --> 01:23:30.239
the fact of having those kind of
communications satellites would have been a world priority

863
01:23:30.319 --> 01:23:34.720
and would have put the United States
in front of any other country as far

864
01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:43.640
as the space race would go.
Plus one account put that at least one

865
01:23:43.640 --> 01:23:53.800
account stated that Marcel and Ramie when
when those materials, those materials were allegedly

866
01:23:53.880 --> 01:24:00.239
recovered from Roswell by Marcel and some
people, and then they were four owned

867
01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:09.199
to Fort Worth, Texas, where
it was examined by Raymie and h another

868
01:24:10.199 --> 01:24:16.640
officer. And the officers knew that
they what they were looking at were not

869
01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:23.880
from a weather balloon. And they
knew it really, you know, they

870
01:24:23.960 --> 01:24:28.920
didn't they didn't want to say that
it was from Project Mogul, But I've

871
01:24:29.119 --> 01:24:34.199
I've seen witnesses testimonies that what they
saw was, you know, they it

872
01:24:34.399 --> 01:24:39.039
was not a weather balloon. That
they actually stated that one photograph that was

873
01:24:39.079 --> 01:24:45.439
out there, and there's some pretty
reliable sources that claimed that and they really

874
01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:49.000
didn't you know, that was in
forty seven, and they really didn't even

875
01:24:49.039 --> 01:24:55.760
come forward and say it was Project
Mogul until ninety five or ninety six,

876
01:24:56.359 --> 01:25:02.439
and there were some witnesses that came
forward from a unit was a school in

877
01:25:03.560 --> 01:25:14.359
New Mexico that were launched that Project
Mogul balloon that day from New Mexico.

878
01:25:15.479 --> 01:25:20.680
And my way of thinking what they
were possibly doing was they were since these

879
01:25:20.760 --> 01:25:26.840
Project Mogul were like balloon trains with
large balloons in them, they were probably

880
01:25:27.680 --> 01:25:35.439
testing the miler coded balloons by putting
them in as part of those balloon trains.

881
01:25:35.960 --> 01:25:41.560
Since they were already high altitude balloon
trains, they could have been testing

882
01:25:42.239 --> 01:25:47.159
those miler coded ones with devices on
them to see about the pressure and so

883
01:25:47.319 --> 01:25:54.359
forth. That's one way they could
sneak those in without people seeing flying discs

884
01:25:54.840 --> 01:26:00.079
flying around. So still getting back
to the headline just one time, Um,

885
01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:05.920
you think that the they made an
honest mistake thinking that at first they

886
01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:11.439
had a flying disc, you know, because they called it in one you

887
01:26:11.520 --> 01:26:15.000
know, one press release they called
it a flying saucer, another one they

888
01:26:15.039 --> 01:26:18.680
called it a flying disc. But
they were alluding to the fact that they

889
01:26:18.760 --> 01:26:23.399
had something extraterrestrial when they first came
out. Of course, you know,

890
01:26:23.479 --> 01:26:28.960
they recanted the following day and fort
Worth like you said, but but so

891
01:26:29.319 --> 01:26:32.960
so, what are your thoughts on
that in general? If if they if

892
01:26:33.039 --> 01:26:42.640
it was one of those UH prototype
sadaloons, it would have been a metal

893
01:26:42.760 --> 01:26:46.199
coated flying disc if they saw it
in if anyone saw it air. From

894
01:26:46.239 --> 01:26:54.319
the research that I saw, no
one saw it in the air. They

895
01:26:54.359 --> 01:26:59.720
always saw the pieces on the ground
that if someone saw a saw one of

896
01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:04.600
those balloons, either as part of
a project Mogal train or you know,

897
01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:12.359
in addition to that Mughal train,
it would have technically looked like an extra

898
01:27:12.479 --> 01:27:19.920
terrestrial flying disc that was made out
of a polyester coated with metal. And

899
01:27:20.039 --> 01:27:26.520
the descriptions that I've read in a
couple of cases of that metal, the

900
01:27:26.640 --> 01:27:32.680
people of people that actually handled it
described it as like an aluminium coated pliable

901
01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:42.760
but flexible yet not you know,
stretchable material. So are you saying basically

902
01:27:42.880 --> 01:27:46.039
that one hand doesn't know what the
other is doing. In other words,

903
01:27:46.560 --> 01:27:53.439
the Army Air Force at Roswell had
no idea what these that these crafts were

904
01:27:53.680 --> 01:27:57.840
up in the air and being tested. Is that what your thoughts? All?

905
01:27:57.920 --> 01:28:01.199
Right, yes, but here's here's
what that that one of those other

906
01:28:01.319 --> 01:28:08.479
points that I made, Here's what
I'm finding out that what's happening back then

907
01:28:08.720 --> 01:28:14.600
and even now, you know they
talk about disclosure and cover up, it

908
01:28:15.039 --> 01:28:19.760
wasn't just the government that was covering
it up. You know, there were

909
01:28:20.560 --> 01:28:30.279
there's there were um ufologists that were
making statements that they thought were true that

910
01:28:30.439 --> 01:28:35.720
weren't. So what there were also
scientists in the government were making statements that

911
01:28:35.800 --> 01:28:40.439
they thought were true that weren't.
There were some people making true statements.

912
01:28:41.880 --> 01:28:47.039
And what was was this like this
perfect storm of conflicting information that creates a

913
01:28:47.159 --> 01:28:53.159
situation where you have all this conflicting
information, some of it's reliable, some

914
01:28:53.319 --> 01:28:57.159
of it's not reliable. And when
you get that kind of a perfect storm

915
01:28:57.239 --> 01:29:02.239
with all kinds of information, and
I've documented that from all all those different

916
01:29:02.279 --> 01:29:12.319
sources, you can't solve a problem, especially a problem as big as UFO

917
01:29:12.560 --> 01:29:16.279
phenomena. So what was happening is
that there was so much information on him

918
01:29:16.319 --> 01:29:21.760
there coming out, some of the
disinformation, some of the misinformation, some

919
01:29:21.960 --> 01:29:30.159
of the accurate information that it was
causing it to be covered up without having

920
01:29:30.319 --> 01:29:36.319
to try to cover with up very
convoluted. So yeah, and I found

921
01:29:36.399 --> 01:29:48.479
evidence of that. So, um, if the if the government actually didn't

922
01:29:48.520 --> 01:29:54.199
come clean in nineteen ninety six,
I think you mentioned earlier. I know,

923
01:29:54.800 --> 01:29:57.840
um, there was a senator that
you know, brought there was a

924
01:29:57.960 --> 01:30:02.439
hearing with the Air Force. Why
wouldn't they finally just come clean, you

925
01:30:02.560 --> 01:30:09.199
know, with with the whole situation
and just just say what they were doing.

926
01:30:09.319 --> 01:30:14.319
I mean, after all this time, it shouldn't matter. Well they're

927
01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:19.800
again depending on what they were really
doing with that. Now let's let's and

928
01:30:19.920 --> 01:30:25.439
again I'm just throwing this out as
an example. Let's say what I think

929
01:30:25.479 --> 01:30:30.279
would happen was that there were one
of those uh metal coded sataloons, was

930
01:30:30.359 --> 01:30:33.560
either part of one of those balloon
trains or it was on its own being

931
01:30:33.600 --> 01:30:41.920
tested. Oh if lightning would have
hit that. And there are some indicators

932
01:30:41.960 --> 01:30:45.920
that there was a storm that night, and that's what supposedly caused this crash,

933
01:30:45.199 --> 01:30:50.680
A saucer to crash, and that's
technically what happened. If let's say

934
01:30:50.720 --> 01:30:58.239
someone was trying to bring that sadaloon
down or it was connected somehow. I've

935
01:30:58.359 --> 01:31:08.239
seen videos of lightning or electricity hitting
a miler balloon and it just blows up

936
01:31:09.560 --> 01:31:15.039
and it would tear the clothing and
the skin and the hair or everything possibly

937
01:31:15.479 --> 01:31:19.760
off of anyone that was near it. Wow. So if if I'm not

938
01:31:19.960 --> 01:31:27.439
saying that that happened, if that
happened, that could possibly still be covered

939
01:31:27.560 --> 01:31:30.880
up. I mean there there could
be reasons. Like I said, when

940
01:31:30.880 --> 01:31:34.119
I was doing research with the kexper
against them, I found out that there

941
01:31:34.640 --> 01:31:44.439
even though things were supposed to have
been declassified, that they weren't. So

942
01:31:44.600 --> 01:31:48.439
if there was some kind of disaster
connected to it, and I and again

943
01:31:48.479 --> 01:31:54.279
I don't know, and I'm not
convinced that there was that where people were

944
01:31:54.359 --> 01:31:57.079
killed. But if that, if
that happened or something like that happened,

945
01:31:58.920 --> 01:32:03.000
they wouldn't let me go. Now
I know myself and having to deal with

946
01:32:04.680 --> 01:32:14.600
a secret and top secret material in
some cases, I can't tell about that

947
01:32:14.760 --> 01:32:20.159
for the rest of my life.
M and I had talked with an attorney

948
01:32:20.199 --> 01:32:26.560
about this, and for example,
if I write a book that had top

949
01:32:26.600 --> 01:32:31.079
secret material in it, the government
could go and remove the book off of

950
01:32:31.159 --> 01:32:38.239
the shelves. You do realize that
if you actually have solved this, that

951
01:32:38.399 --> 01:32:41.199
you're going to have if you're going
to have a heck of a lot of

952
01:32:41.239 --> 01:32:46.960
pushback because it's like the number one
American UFO, possibly the number one UFO

953
01:32:47.079 --> 01:32:53.520
case of all time. Right,
you think you're gonna get a lot of

954
01:32:53.560 --> 01:32:57.279
pushback out. Some of it's coming
through the chat room. Yeah. Here

955
01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:04.760
here, I'm gonna change my name. Yeah I would. What would I

956
01:33:04.920 --> 01:33:09.159
changed it to? It's already is
now. But I did you know there

957
01:33:09.279 --> 01:33:13.720
wasn't there wasn't. I won't.
I won't mention where women there was an

958
01:33:13.840 --> 01:33:19.760
article about this, my article published
about just the Roswell case, not the

959
01:33:19.880 --> 01:33:29.720
Cacksburg and Roswell comparison, and nobody
pushed back, Uh, well, it

960
01:33:29.840 --> 01:33:31.840
will happen, of course, you
know. I mean they have diners,

961
01:33:31.880 --> 01:33:35.399
they have the Roswell Museum. You
know, you're gonna be very unpopular.

962
01:33:36.680 --> 01:33:42.640
You'll just have to live with it. Um. So uh and it's interesting,

963
01:33:42.880 --> 01:33:45.439
Um, you know a number of
people in the chat room they're not

964
01:33:45.239 --> 01:33:48.319
they're they're saying, well, where's
the evidence. I think that's kind of

965
01:33:48.399 --> 01:33:53.960
what we've wanted to get, uh, you know, from the flying Sars,

966
01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:58.039
so to speak, as we have
no evidence of that either. Um,

967
01:33:58.880 --> 01:34:05.520
now what do you say that you
have is closest to evidence testimonies of

968
01:34:05.640 --> 01:34:15.000
people that handle the material and possible
material, I don't have it. What

969
01:34:15.159 --> 01:34:20.800
about the the little I beams?
Jesse Marcel Junior talked about these little I

970
01:34:21.000 --> 01:34:29.680
beams that had uh sort of purple
and hieroglyphics on them. What about that?

971
01:34:30.119 --> 01:34:32.359
Is that part of something you looked
into it? All that? Yes,

972
01:34:33.640 --> 01:34:44.039
one of the scientists, Now,
these these UH project mobibles, they

973
01:34:44.079 --> 01:34:47.039
were launched from Ala mcgordon, New
Mexico, some of them, which is

974
01:34:47.119 --> 01:34:55.880
right about that far away from Roswell, and they the team that launched that,

975
01:34:56.720 --> 01:35:00.640
and I happen to know because there
were let's say a scientist still living

976
01:35:00.680 --> 01:35:08.319
in New Mexico that were part of
that launch team. They claimed that those

977
01:35:08.560 --> 01:35:15.760
types of materials were part of the
Project Mogul. What I'm saying is that

978
01:35:16.199 --> 01:35:20.199
I think that that you know that
they were the scuy they were testing those

979
01:35:21.039 --> 01:35:26.920
sataloons as part of the Project Mogul, because they would have both been high

980
01:35:27.760 --> 01:35:35.800
altitude balloons, so you think they
were they were incorporated into those the Moguls

981
01:35:36.439 --> 01:35:43.399
and somehow, but why would have
hieroglyphics on it? Anyway? I mean

982
01:35:43.479 --> 01:35:46.279
did you do well. I don't
know if there were any hieroglyphics on the

983
01:35:46.319 --> 01:35:55.399
balloon. There were hieroglyphics on the
little ibeams, right, those ibeams.

984
01:35:56.039 --> 01:35:59.199
Uh. Again, I don't want
to get into my sources, but the

985
01:35:59.800 --> 01:36:05.880
the companies of those ibams were,
apart from had those designs on them.

986
01:36:08.800 --> 01:36:15.800
So uh okay. Interesting. So
getting back to the nineteen ninety six and

987
01:36:15.960 --> 01:36:21.760
again I don't have the exact year
when that happened. When yeah, um

988
01:36:23.119 --> 01:36:29.960
so the part the subject of the
bodies came up and at the time the

989
01:36:30.239 --> 01:36:34.960
government, the Air Force claimed that
it was crash test dummies, which of

990
01:36:35.000 --> 01:36:40.760
course didn't come out until five years
after the Roswell incident. But they,

991
01:36:41.119 --> 01:36:45.880
you know, instead of um looking
or saying something logical, they said that

992
01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:51.119
they were crash test dummies. Again
adding more uh more, lies to the

993
01:36:53.079 --> 01:36:58.800
whatever type of cover up it was. Um what about that part of it

994
01:36:59.079 --> 01:37:02.760
when people were talking about bodies and
that other like I mentioned earlier, the

995
01:37:02.880 --> 01:37:10.039
Volkswagen size Uh you know, a
vehicle that was found and I forget exactly

996
01:37:10.119 --> 01:37:14.680
how many miles away forty miles away
or sixty or something like that. Yeah,

997
01:37:15.600 --> 01:37:19.920
and there's there's a couple of things. I've never found any evidence that

998
01:37:20.039 --> 01:37:30.039
satisfies me that that there were actual
uh bodies discovered to the original Roswell crash.

999
01:37:30.760 --> 01:37:36.760
Now, uh so, I'm I'm
I'm really not convinced that those bodies

1000
01:37:39.640 --> 01:37:45.720
who were linked to what was found
on that ranch. But I didn't talk

1001
01:37:45.800 --> 01:37:49.600
And again, I lived in New
Mexico and I worked and I talked to

1002
01:37:49.680 --> 01:37:58.479
people. There were a lot of
space junk things lying around New Mexico,

1003
01:38:00.239 --> 01:38:03.159
and that could have been anything.
There was. I mean, there were

1004
01:38:03.239 --> 01:38:06.840
people because of that called cowboy culture. That's what you have to take into

1005
01:38:06.880 --> 01:38:14.239
consideration. People were shooting off rockets
all the time and just for you know,

1006
01:38:14.479 --> 01:38:18.800
fun. And you know, when
I worked in Truth or Consequences for

1007
01:38:18.880 --> 01:38:24.239
a while, they were they had
that you know, that that space station

1008
01:38:24.359 --> 01:38:29.640
or whatever was built down there,
and a lot of the experimental things that

1009
01:38:29.760 --> 01:38:32.800
they launched from there didn't make it. And I mean I had friends that

1010
01:38:32.880 --> 01:38:35.560
would shoot stuff up in the air
just for fun, you know, and

1011
01:38:36.159 --> 01:38:42.800
uh Fourth of July or whatever.
So there were quite a bit of rocket

1012
01:38:42.920 --> 01:38:48.119
pieces all of scattered throughout New Mexico. Wow, could have been anything.

1013
01:38:49.199 --> 01:38:56.560
Yeah, yeah, Um, So
the only part I guess the I mean,

1014
01:38:56.720 --> 01:39:00.720
I think this is really fascinating.
And the only part I find it

1015
01:39:01.319 --> 01:39:08.520
a little tough to understand is why, after all this time, why didn't

1016
01:39:08.560 --> 01:39:14.560
the government just plane admit that this
was an experimental situation? I mean,

1017
01:39:14.680 --> 01:39:16.840
it's it's kind of silly now.
I mean, there's the Roswell Festival.

1018
01:39:17.439 --> 01:39:23.960
There's so many people, um,
you know, involved in you know,

1019
01:39:24.079 --> 01:39:29.760
the celebration and the mystery and books
and all that, and so why wouldn't

1020
01:39:29.760 --> 01:39:31.840
the government just plane come out and
say, hey, look, this was

1021
01:39:33.039 --> 01:39:40.199
an odd shaped, you know,
aluminum coded mylar type experimental thing that happened.

1022
01:39:40.239 --> 01:39:43.399
And that's the end of story,
that's it. Why wouldn't they just

1023
01:39:43.560 --> 01:39:46.640
admit it and get it over with
and stop all this? Well it's a

1024
01:39:46.800 --> 01:39:53.439
it's a multifaceted situation now, just
like you were saying, so I'm not

1025
01:39:53.640 --> 01:39:58.920
thinking in mind, well, if
they really come forward and show all this,

1026
01:39:59.720 --> 01:40:03.399
there goes the whole Roswell ceremony,
you know, in that whole whole

1027
01:40:04.239 --> 01:40:12.680
event and this if, like I'm
saying, and this cover up that I'm

1028
01:40:12.680 --> 01:40:16.520
again, it's bigger than just a
government. Okay, that's keeping stuff quiet.

1029
01:40:18.960 --> 01:40:21.640
They don't want it to go away. They want to keep using it.

1030
01:40:21.760 --> 01:40:28.039
They want the UFO component to be
part of the cover up mix.

1031
01:40:28.800 --> 01:40:33.520
So it will take forever for anyone
to really figure out what's going on with

1032
01:40:33.680 --> 01:40:43.359
the whole UFO phenomenon. It has
to be a big confused mix for the

1033
01:40:43.479 --> 01:40:49.840
whole cover up to work. Well, there's certainly I don't agree with one

1034
01:40:49.960 --> 01:40:54.920
part of that statement, and you're
saying the whole UFOU, you know,

1035
01:40:55.159 --> 01:40:59.880
cover up or the whole UFO,
because there are definitely things that are seeing

1036
01:41:00.600 --> 01:41:05.840
that are unexplainable, you know,
constantly and ever since. So you're not

1037
01:41:06.119 --> 01:41:13.600
thinking that everything that's happening is something
to do with the government or uh no.

1038
01:41:14.039 --> 01:41:17.119
I mean, but I'm talking about
UFO in the sense of being from

1039
01:41:17.159 --> 01:41:24.319
another plant. I'm saying that there
are there are things that I think what's

1040
01:41:24.359 --> 01:41:30.560
happening is that there are things out
there that are from private industry that are

1041
01:41:30.600 --> 01:41:34.439
putting them up there, you know, like SpaceX or whatever whatever, And

1042
01:41:34.640 --> 01:41:39.840
that's part of the mix too.
In fact, one thing I found fascinating

1043
01:41:40.039 --> 01:41:46.039
in researching the Roswell event is that
there were private companies at that time that

1044
01:41:46.319 --> 01:41:53.439
had more money than the government did, and they were funding the you know,

1045
01:41:53.560 --> 01:42:00.520
the passive communications satellites programs, whereby
the government couldn't fund them. So

1046
01:42:00.800 --> 01:42:02.920
there were definitely, at least one
point, and I don't know that whole

1047
01:42:03.439 --> 01:42:10.800
corporate cronyism mixed, but there are
definitely private people out there that are,

1048
01:42:11.159 --> 01:42:14.800
you know, funding things. And
I know when I worked for the government,

1049
01:42:15.119 --> 01:42:20.199
a part of my job was to
look at technological innovations that were going

1050
01:42:20.319 --> 01:42:27.840
on, and I had to sign
non disclosure programs or agreements. Anything I

1051
01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:32.560
signed in a private lab was anywhere
from fifteen to fifty years ahead of what

1052
01:42:32.720 --> 01:42:38.800
was out there on the market.
They weren't most of them weren't government projects.

1053
01:42:40.600 --> 01:42:44.960
Okay, So basically, are you
let me just I just want some

1054
01:42:45.039 --> 01:42:49.000
clarity here in your thoughts if I
could. Are you thinking that there is

1055
01:42:50.199 --> 01:42:56.920
that every UFO that scene is explained
away or could be explained away as a

1056
01:42:57.039 --> 01:43:05.319
government or private contractor experimental type of
craft or something that people are seeing,

1057
01:43:05.840 --> 01:43:12.159
or do you think there's a possibility
of just we don't know, We don't

1058
01:43:12.359 --> 01:43:18.319
know. That's where I'm coming from, because for examples, you've got other

1059
01:43:18.520 --> 01:43:23.640
mentions to look into. And since
I think it was two thousand and one.

1060
01:43:24.880 --> 01:43:29.720
I believe it was nassauf on a
cold spot in the microwave background that

1061
01:43:29.840 --> 01:43:36.079
they feel was kind of like a
gateway to a multiverse approach. Also,

1062
01:43:41.039 --> 01:43:46.039
if there I feel right now that
you know there is extraterrestrial life out there,

1063
01:43:46.119 --> 01:43:53.239
I believe that, you know,
especially working with projects SETI or whatever.

1064
01:43:54.079 --> 01:43:59.760
And my prediction is within ten years, give or take three years,

1065
01:44:01.479 --> 01:44:08.920
we will have some kind of physical
communication. But it's highly likely that we're

1066
01:44:09.000 --> 01:44:15.439
looking at hollow grahams in some cases, wow, instead of physical ships.

1067
01:44:16.520 --> 01:44:20.000
Interesting, Well, it sounds like
you're having a little bit of trouble there.

1068
01:44:20.279 --> 01:44:26.000
Again, it's it's probably the you
know, um, it's probably the

1069
01:44:26.079 --> 01:44:29.640
government. After you. Your screen
hasn't gone black. But we have just

1070
01:44:29.760 --> 01:44:33.079
a couple of minutes left. Um, you have a website right, Yes,

1071
01:44:35.880 --> 01:44:50.079
it's uh Bob Wenzel gross dot calm
Bob www www dot Bob Wenzel grows

1072
01:44:50.159 --> 01:44:56.840
all one word dot com. Okay, And and and like I said,

1073
01:44:56.840 --> 01:45:01.079
we just have a few minutes left
here. You're you're book, your book

1074
01:45:02.439 --> 01:45:06.159
that's coming out. What do you
have a working title for that? Well,

1075
01:45:06.800 --> 01:45:13.079
I just completed a most my most
recent newest book that I just had

1076
01:45:13.159 --> 01:45:16.760
a I have it's it's drafted,
and I have a proposal that I have.

1077
01:45:17.439 --> 01:45:20.239
The title of that one is and
this is a single book, it's

1078
01:45:20.279 --> 01:45:27.600
not a series. The title is
the True Nature and Value of phenomena known

1079
01:45:27.680 --> 01:45:30.960
as UFOs. Okay, hey,
hey Bob, I'm gonna have to cut

1080
01:45:31.039 --> 01:45:33.760
this short. We are we are
done. So I want to thank you

1081
01:45:33.880 --> 01:45:36.520
so much for being on the show. And good look with that, stay

1082
01:45:36.640 --> 01:45:43.359
healthy and stay safe after you release
all that information. Thank you. All

1083
01:45:43.439 --> 01:45:45.399
right, I'll try to close this
down here, all right, you take

1084
01:45:45.439 --> 01:45:48.159
care, Thank you so much.
All right, you bet? All right?

1085
01:45:48.239 --> 01:45:51.680
Everyone, So that's it for our
show tonight. Thanks so much.

1086
01:45:51.760 --> 01:45:57.119
We have MJ. Ben Yes here
coming up next week. I want to

1087
01:45:57.159 --> 01:46:01.039
thank everyone that helps out with the
show. We have, We have Evan

1088
01:46:01.119 --> 01:46:04.880
in the background, we have our
guests Dr Bob Gross, Alejanda Rojas and

1089
01:46:05.039 --> 01:46:11.560
Peggy Shunning for running the peg of
the Facebook page. And thank you kg

1090
01:46:11.840 --> 01:46:15.800
R A Radio. And we'll be
back the same time next week. And

1091
01:46:15.000 --> 01:46:17.960
that's it. Remember to keep your
eyes to the sky.