Good afternoon. You're listening to Gambling with an Edge. Now here are your
host Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin. Good afternoon, Welcome to Gambling with an
Edge. I'm Bob Dancer and I'm Richard Munchkin, and today's guest is Michael
Shackelford. Shack was a co host of this podcast for more than a year,
came back and visited a number of times, including some Super Bowl prop
bets, uh somewhat better than others, and so he Shack is a part
of the history of Gambling with an Edge and deserves a chance to say goodbye
to our audience for the last time. So, Michael Shackelford, welcome back
to Gambling with an Edge. Thank you very much for having me. And
I'm honored to be the guests on one of your last and we actually don't
know how last it's going to be. We as a when we take the
show yesterday, we thought this was going to be the penultimate show, and
so rich and I we're going to have a mailbag show for afterwards, and
then overnight I was you know, Richard, it would be pretty cool if
I interviewed you and you interviewed me for another last show. So the one
you hear next week is going to say it's the last show, and it
wouldn't surprise me if there's one after that, so but who knows. We
thank our audience, all right. So the media impetus for the interview with
Shack is a new version of Gambling one O two. So this is like
the fourteenth version of that, and it keeps coming out, keeps changing a
little bit. So why is it still Gambling one oh two, Version three,
version four rather than ahead another name it is. This is the third
printing of the book. Every time there's a new printing, I updated a
little bit. I had some new games, take out some dead games,
and with this third edition, the main new material is going to be on
slot machines, especially vulturable or accumulator slots, and I talk about some particular
games and how to tell if it's in a state with a player advantage.
And when does the book due out? I wish I knew. I turned
it in in December of twenty two, so it's I've been waiting four months,
and in my experience with Huntington Press, it's out when it's out,
And so I really hate to give out a time frame. Yeah, we
all have experience with that. Okay, So you lift eight featable slot machines.
Nine actually nine actually all right, so one of the one of them
is cash Mango. Now, there are at least two versions of cash Man
Bingo, So do you treat them the same? What is the difference between
the two versions? Oh, in the older version, when you look down
at the panel, it will show you how it will have a dot on
each Bingo square that is full, so you can look out and see if
there are three or four, it's almost never a play, and if there's
like twenty, it's always a play, and so you can kind of glance
to see if there's a lot of them, in which case you want to
look at it further. In the newer version, you actually have to put
ticket or money into the machine and then can't then scroll from screen to screen
to screen to see what the current state of the game is. So the
advice that I give in my book and my website applies to both games.
It's my understanding that it's just a presentation difference, but the math of the
game is basically the same, and I welcome correction on that. If I'm
wrong, I create them the same on your and figuring out these games.
Were you able to have part sheets from the manufacturer or a personal experience of
go out and count cycle, or you have a number of friends on your
Wizard of Vegas site among other places who do this and maybe you've got some
information from them. It's most Yeah, it's mostly the latter. It is
friends that do vulture slots that give me advice, and I kind of take
an amalgamation of all their opinions, and most of them, in fact,
all of them wished to remain nameless. However, with Cashman Mingo, that
was the first one I got really serious about, and I I videoed myself
playing, and I did a lot of analysis, and I dug pretty deeply
into that one, and I created my own strategy that other people say sounded
reasonable. But with the rest of the games, I got kind of lazy
and I played them a little bit just to make sure the advice I was
getting seemed reasonable. But it's mostly other sources that helped me out. Are
you out there? Are you out there playing the games not just for research
but to make money? Do you actually play? Not very much? Yesterday
I was talking about this topic with a friend at the Suncoast, and I
happened again. Coming back to Cashman Mingo. I saw a game that was
cased in like five different places, so of course I jumped in and played
that. But I I only if I'm in a casino for another reason,
I will look at the machines and try to find a play. But I
never go to a casino specifically for this topic. And I live in Las
Vegas, and everyone seems to sing the blues that it's tough to find good
games in Vegas because there's just so much competition from other vultures. That's that's
true. There are a lot of other players. But for those of you
who are interested in the book includes a strategy for cash Maingo, Rich Little
Piggies, Scarab Golden Juggle, Grand Hex Breaker three, Magic of the Nile
Ocean, Magic Golden Egypt, Regal Riches, which is also called Prosperity Pearl.
Thank you if you. If you want to learn a reasonable for these
games, you a head start to see if advantaged slots is right for you.
Um the new version of Gambling one O two uh and you will be
when it comes out, which we don't know when that will be. Well,
you bug Anthony Curtis on that and so uh sorry, Anthony, here's
your goodbye. So actually Anthony uh sometimes doesn't know. He's like he's he
sent it off to the printer x number of weeks ago and he was thinking
it was going to be back there. Hold up, it's beyond his control.
And I don't know what the situation is, but um but it's coming
all right now. In addition to those kind of slots, there are also
some must hit bys, which is a type of advantage slot machine where if
you there are numbers, So example, if it's must hit by five hundred,
it might start at two fifty and go up and then when it gets
to be a level, it's positive expectation to play it until it gets to
two thousand, gets to five hundred, or you give strategy on when to
get on must hit bys. So some of these are completely random, and
some of these are weight at random. So what do you what do you
have to say about that? Michael? Yes, I wrote about this on
my website a long time ago. And as you correctly describe, there will
be a nater and it will say that we are just going to award this
jackpot randomly, and a good example is between two hundred and fifty and five
hundred dollars, So it starts at two fifty, and it grows by either
a certain percentage of money bet or money one and again to guarantee that it
will hit by five hundred and this example, and the way most makers do
this is it could be hit anywhere in that range with equal probability. However,
some makers, especially ags, always delay or almost always delay it until
the very end of the range, which I frankly think is unethical because I
think it's reasonable to assume that it could hit anywhere in the range with equal
probability. So if you see a game at say four hundred and eighty,
it would be tempting to play it thinking it's just got twenty more dollars to
go. But if the game never hits until it gets to say four ninety
five, then I think that's a tease, and it's again I think it's
unethical, and I don't think the Gaming Control Board should allow it unless it's
stayed in the rules somewhere that they do tend to delay hitting these jackpots until
the end, then I would be okay with it, but they do not
they do not disclose any such information in the rule screens. Yeah, a
whole theory of those machines are have the word deluxe on the end, like
money Storm Deluxe or Coyote Deluxe, where it almost always waits intellison. It's
a dollar or two before the end before it hits and so but it does
happen, and even when it does, even when it is that way,
it can be good to get on it at a particular number because the amount
of money that you are putting in it's going to be less than the amount
of money that you're taking out on average. So learning when these numbers are
is part of the game, and it takes a lot of data. It's
but also isn't that going to change in different casinos they may be holding a
different amount. They may have the machine set to hold more or less than
the number you're from filiar with. And so what if you go to another
state and you know, let's say that you know in Las Vegas most places,
you know you're going to get on at this number. But now you
go over to New Jersey and maybe they're holding a lot more, so you
would be losing money if you got on at the same number. How do
you deal with that? In my opinion, the way these machines are programmed
is, yes, they're dent manufacturer may allow different return percentages, but I
think it the random the mystery jackpot feature is the same from game to game
for any given type of game. So I think the advice that works in
Nevada would also work in Mississippi. For example, Well, wait a minute,
when you calculate that your number for getting on, Let's say you decide
I'm just going to pick a number out of my ass here that this five
hundred, you should get on at four eighty. And that's based on the
idea that the machine is holding let's say ten percent, and you're going to
lose x amount before the jackpot hits. But if you go to another state
and that machine is holding fifteen percent, you're going to lose a lot more
before the jackpot hits and you may no longer be playing with an inch.
That's a good point. And on my website I indicate a formula for when
when the meter is high enough that you should play, And this formula does
depend upon the return of the game. And so if you were you were
playing in a more generous casino, you would would have a different entry point
than a stingy one. But I think that a ninety percent return is shall
we say, fair to assume as a general average. And it's But by
the way, it's not that the mechanism that determines the mystery jackpot is different
from casino to casino, but it's the expense of playing the game waiting for
that jack pot to hit. Right, you should have a high tree point
at a stingier casino because you're going to lose more money along the way.
Right, But how do you know? You know? I mean, you
can kind of know in Las Vegas, for example, that the strip is
way stingier than the than the locals joints. But you know, when you
go to a new state. You know, if you if you go to
Iowa and you've never been there, you don't really have a clue. My
advice there is the greater the competition in the local market, the user the
games are probably going to be, and the nicer, the nicer the casino,
the stingier the slots. Just some general advice to go on. And
yes, I'm sure there are many exceptions. Yeah, sure, yeah,
okay, let let um, let's talk about the difference between Like, video
poker and slots are both in the slot department, but they're very, very
very different games. M No, I have some ideas on this, but
um, have you played them both enough to to be able to have video
poker and slots are different? Sure, I can speak to that topic.
I've played a lot more video poker than video slots, But so go ahead.
How are they different? Oh? Well, m video poker is very
mathematical, it's quantifiable. They tell you what the rules are, so it
could be analyzed to death as I have done, including you know, very
complicated strategies if you want to really really get close to the maximum optimal strategy
return, and video poker tends to have a very thin advantage, as you
know. So this is the type of thing that if you're a video poker
player, you're probably going to be putting in a lot of hours at the
machine, where as slots is something kind of like hunting. You have to
hunt around the casino, probably looking at one hundred games to find one or
two good ones, and when you find them, you're probably gonna in most
cases just played for a short time until that bonus hits, and then off
you go looking for the next game. So it's a totally different experience for
the player. Sounds like online dating. I like that, well, except
hopefully in online dating you're not done and in a minute and a half after
you start. But I suppose some people are good for me the all right.
Yeah. The other other differences isn't on video poker, you largely can
know what you're going to be playing when you get to the casino, unless
you're specializing in progressives and you haven't scouted it recently. You know that they
have a particular double double bonus game that is that returns such and such an
amount, and you know what the slot club is, and you know what
the promotion is and so so you can predict it. In slot machines,
any individual slot machine could be an eighty five or one hundred twenty percent game
or more depending on the level of various progressives or other features on the machine,
and these vary by the player, so you usually so you don't know.
It depends on how many people who don't know how to play the game
have played since the jack potts hit. Another difference is in video poker on
multi games, and you know that it's say quarter fifty cent dollars, and
you know, twelve games on on this machine, and it's going to be
the same twelve games every day. But in slot machines there could easily be
also three or five denominations and can be three or five or ten, well
three or five different numbers of coins per bet, and so any of which
could be positive because you don't know who left in what condition. So you
come up to us advantage slot machine, and sometimes you have to check twenty
to thirty different conditions to know whether or not there's one or more plays on
it, and that takes time. It's also very obvious what you're doing,
whereas video poker, you know, if the this is wild game had loosest
pace schedule a week ago on this machine, well it probably still does.
Whereas in a slot machine you have to check and you know you need to
do. Is this is really analogous to counting cards versus playing whole cards or
some other kind of advanced strategy at blackjack. And the rap that you hear
from people who don't play these strategies is, oh, well, you can
spend all your time scouting and never find anything. But if I'm counting,
I can just walk in and sit down and play. So yeah, it's
it's very much the same thing that when you're playing more advanced forms of blackjack
or other table games. Yes, a lot of it is the scouting and
you never know what you're going to find, but when you do find it,
it's worth way more than that video poker game that you could have just
walked in and sat down and started playing. Yeah, to that, I
would add that video hooker is extremely quantifiable and the math is known and the
strategies are known, whereas everything with slot machines is no one's exactly sure.
Like you can bring up any of these games that can have a player advantage
and no two people will probably agree on exactly when to play. It's these
strategies are mostly based on personal experience, and so it's it's it's a new
advantage play. And that's why I think that, um, how shall I
put it? That that that there's not that much known about it and you
have to get information generally through other players. And in my book I do
touch on nine of them, but there's a lot more than nine out there,
and I would also like to go back to something that that Bob said,
is that about the range is I believe you said eighty five percent to
one hundred and twenty percent. So I totally agree that game can have a
twenty percent player advantage if it's in a good state, but it can also
be way lower than eighty five percent. If it's in a horrible state.
It might get as low as, say fifty percent. So for that reason,
if someone is a recreational slot player and has no interest in learning about
when to play, I would say, don't play an accumulator slot at all,
because most of them are left at a very low state, and you
will probably when you start to play, you'll be playing into a very bad
state most likely. So if you are a slot player and I can't talk
you out of playing slots, I say avoid accumulator slots and just play something
where the odds are the same every single spin. Let's goind other things in
your book. What else is new in your Gambling one O two version three?
So I do have new chapters on Crapless Craps and Face Up Pagat Poker.
Previously, in the second addition, those games were touched on briefly,
but because they've become much more popular, I dig into them a little bit
deeper. I mean, well, with face up pigut poker, I can
see that, But crap less craps, I mean what, how how deep
can you dig? I mean what? What? What? What's new there?
Yeah? I mean you there. I don't think that. Previously I
went into such things as the odds on place bets on the two, three,
eleven, and twelve, um. But yeah, again, there's there's
not not much to say about crapless craps. But I would like to say,
just real briefly, that the odds are better and conventional craps and crapless
craps. And I can't imagine that you thoroughly cover face up pigut poker,
because that could take a whole book in and of itself, couldn't it.
Well, it's it's easy to play because it's obvious how to set your cards,
and I've run simulations on the game, so I think that I do
cover everything that really needs to be said about it. Huh, Well,
I guess the dealer has a fixed strategy, right, And as long as
you know that, then yeah, I guess you're right. I guess it
would be obvious. Yep. I mean, well that you don't even need
to know the house way because the dealer will sit there and arrange their hand,
so you know exactly what you're facing against. Oh they arrange there's before
you do. So oh yeah, okay, thus the game face up.
Yeah, okay. You've also been working on Ultimate X Bonus Streak. Is
this in your book or on your website or is this attitude? Yep,
this is very fresh on my website. I started discussing it in my forum
about a month ago, but I finally put together a page on my website
on Fulturing Ultimate X Bonus Streaks, So I'm pretty proud of that. It
was not an easy thing to analyze. Okay, in the past on bonus
streak I have you can look at the screen and count up the number of
multipliers, and if it's more than the game called for, then you have
an advantage. So if it's a ten play game, so you're playing ten
coins a line, if the multiplier is at least twenty, then it's a
positive play for at least one hand. Now that was so that you could
get one or two hands out of that. It didn't yield many long term
plays, and so although it could, so it's largely a one and done
situation, and so I stopped looking at that. So on your strategy is
that how often do you get plays? So my strategy looks more than just
one hand in the future. You're absolutely right that let's look at ten play
double double bonus. For example, with the eight five pay table, if
you have twenty one or more multipliers on the very next hand, it's obvious
that you should play it. However, if you look at the next two
hands, if you have thirty four or more, then my strategy says to
play. And if you look at the next three hands and you see forty
three or more multipliers, then you should play. And the reason that you
should play with numbers that are less than say forty and sixty, respectively,
is because these multipliers have a chance to grow and you may get multipliers on
hands that had only a one x multiplier right now. So it's again the
multipliers. You can either earn new ones or old ones can grow up to
a twelve. Now your strategy on this, So so you're talking about now
the strategy get one when to jump in, which is an important part.
But regular Ultimate X vulturing you you're betting five coins, so which is a
half bet, and so you play basic strategy for that paid table, having
nothing to do with Ultimate X strategy, but on bonus streak since um you
still are earning bonuses, and so your strategy needs to be somewhat um bonus
based rather than just based game based. Do you agree with that? Oh?
I absolutely agree. Agree that for the long term player, you follow
a much different strategy than conventional video poker. However, for the vulture,
it's they're not sitting there and playing it for a long period of time.
They want to hit those immediate wins and then lead once the game doesn't have
enough multipliers anymore. So under that hit and run strategy, I think that
the correct strategy is very similar to conventional video poker because you don't really care
that much about earning future multipliers. You want to get the ones that are
there right now, and cut and cut and run. All right. One
other thing I want to mention with Shack that and the idea of it's all
your fault. Bonnie reminded me last night when Bonnie and I are just about
to celebrate our ninth anniversary, and approximately nine and a half years ago,
we were taping the show, and so Bonnie came to see what taping the
show was all about. This is when it was actually a radio podcast,
so it was in a studio and Michael was the host at that time.
So apparently one time when I went to the restroom while Bonnie and Shack we're
in the studio before the taping, he said, if you hook up with
Bob, you're going to go on a lot of cruises. And so Bonnie
remembered that and she told me. She says she thinks she's been on twenty
four cruises in the last nine years, and she didn't believe it was true
when Shack told her that, but she wanted to. So I don't know
how much that affected Bonnie's decision to finally say yes. But it's so if
if Shaq actually had anything to do with her saying yes, and I owe
him big time because my life was working very well being hooked up with Bonnie.
So with all of that, see, so it's all your fault,
Mike. Well, all that, let's do some commercials and then when you
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for you. All right, so you have been Michael Sacho heard the Wizard
of Odds for a sizable number of years. How long do you plan to
day Wizard of Odds? Thanks for the question. I am almost fifty eight
as I as we do this interview, and I am thinking about hanging up
the Wizard hat when I turn six feet in May of twenty twenty five,
and I'm already gradually entering into retirement as I cut back on my Wizard duties
and private consulting. However, that may be change if there's, say a
big downturn in the economy. So do you expect the Wizard of Odds website
and all the information on there too to last there indefinitely and not being updated.
But if I wants to use one of your tools or information. It
will stay there after you're no longer the wizard or exact and disappeared too.
So as most people know, I sold the site in twenty fourteen and it
is owned by my boss, and I am sure that he is going to
keep it around. It makes, as far as I know, a lot
of money, and I'm sure that he wants to keep that going. It
may be that somebody else takes over, shall we say the role is of
the wizard that I don't know. That's up to him, but I'm absolutely
sure that the site will remain there. Do you have a wizard hat,
our caper or one that you are going to turn over to whoever is next
in line, perhaps in a figurative way of speaking, Absolutely, I would
like to see somebody who I respect fill my shoes, and I would absolutely
welcome a transition period where I enter this person. Still don't know what the
future holds with that, but I would very much like to see the sight
still have the same standards that it has now. Actually, I know somebody
who who might be an appropriate wizard. I will talk to him and if
somebody, um uh, he might be, I'm not sure. I don't
know. How how if he looks good in black? But we'll have to
find out. So when you fade into retirement, do you have plants?
I mean, you're gonna travel the world, are you? He's gonna go
out play slot machines? No, I really am gichy to travel the world,
espen, especially doing adventurous things like I'd like to hike lots of climb
lots of mountains, bicycle all over the country and the world, and river
rafting, kayaking. HI really have a lot, a long list of ideas
of things that I'd like to do, and I'd like to do as many
as possible before I get too old to do them. Yeah, some people
would say sixty is already too old, but what do they know. I
am you chase eclipses, Mike, right, You're going to wake o for
the eclipse? Um, are you going to start chasing tornadoes as well?
I never thought about the tornadoes. I would actually like to see a tornado
once in my life. You don't see very many here in Las Vegas.
But but you're a But I love total eclipses. And for those who don't
know that there's going to be a total eclipse of the Sun running through from
through Mexico, cutting into Texas and then going northeast up to Maine and then
into Canada. In April eight, twenty twenty four is the date, and
I already booked Airbnb as well as some hotel rooms in Waco, Texas.
Why Waco exactly because the totality path goes right over Waco, so they're going
to get I believe, four minutes and fifteen seconds of totality, which is
almost as much as you can get anywhere. And other big cities that are
going to be in the totality path are Austin, Dallas, I believe,
Indianapolis, and Cleveland and Buffalo, but they may not necessarily be right in
the middle of the path like Waco is. So there's a very lively discussion
about the eclipse in my forum at Wizard of Vegas. But I highly recommend
anybody who can see it to see it and plan in advance because the hotel
rooms I have already booked up along the path. Traffic can be terrible on
the day of the eclipse, So try to be someplace. Try to stay
someplace that already in the path if you can, yeah there and if you're
comparing Waco and Buffalo. Waco is more likely to be sunny and clear than
Buffalo is now I forgot to say that. And although you could charter an
airplane and be above clouds, so that so the weather it wo't matter for
the most part. But that's a it's a more expensive option than most people
are probably interested in enduring. We spoke earlier about face up Pie out poker.
So there was a big jackpot got over six million dollars not so long
ago. Did you, uh, did you analyze that at the time or
how did that go? Oh? Absolutely, there was a very lively discussion
about that on my website, and I gave updates about the jackpot all the
time, and it hit at six point four million, and it's and it
was a big player advantage at the time that it got hit. In fact,
I think it was about about one hundred dollars an hour play, even
assuming a twenty five or fifty dollars required base bet, and even if you
assumed paying say thirty seven percent taxes on the jackpot, it was still mathematically
speaking, a very strong play. But if you didn't hit a jackpot,
you'd probably be losing about one hundred dollars an hour chasing after it. So
it was a very high volatility play that was not right for everybody. I
did play it a little bit, but I didn't feel it was worth it
for me to give up other things to play it. Yeah, a game
like that, people learned the difference between the main and the median. Yep,
all right, did you have any you were a host for over a
year, do you have any specific memories of gambling with an edge that favorite
memories? I think the most memorable show for me was when we had Cocktail
Doll was really Dolly Wong as our guest, and she was I wanted to
do shows when I was a co host that weren't necessarily about becoming a better
gambler, but more about the culture of Las Vegas and getting to know some
regular What about just regular jobs and you know, the pros and cons of
these different occupations. So I was friends with a cocktail waitress at the New
York New York, and she already had a website and a blog about her
profession, and I just found her fascinating and I loved her articles and her
stuff. So we had her as a guest and Bob, I'll let you
talk about that experience, but it was it was a very I thought,
a very fun show that was interesting not just doing anything happen but I but
Michael enjoyed her and was if he could have talked her and going out and
having a drink and chatting for a little bit afterwards, he would have been
amenable to that. And she comes in with a new boyfriend and neither one
of them could keep their hands off of the other during the taping of the
show, and so her hormones were just going crazy. And so I suspect
that was that part was disappointing to Shaq because she was obviously going to be
busy after the show, had no time for a drink with him, whether
they had another one some other time or not. But that that was kind
of interesting to watch our guest on the show. Basically we're ready to tell
him you get a room. That just seems so weird that they would be
doing that in the studio while she's talking on the air. That's just bizarre
to me. Yeah, and back then we had a producer because it was
a radio show. His name was Leonard, if I remember right, and
he was not happy with some of the language that Dolly was using. Oh,
he probably had to be bleeping. I was AM radio, so he
had to be bleeping it. Yeah. May I quote one of the things
that I'm sure he did bleep by all means Okay, so I don't remember
the exact word edge, But Dolly said something to the effect of I'm a
very successful cocktail waitress. And I think I said something like, why do
you think you may do better than other ones? And she said something like,
I think it's because I'm hot and have big tits. I think you
can say that on the radio nowadays. But but yeah, it's things have
changed now. She is she still writing or do you know? Or no,
she is. I don't think she's very active at it anymore. Sad
to say, do you know if she's still a cocktail address? I think
she is. She. I do follow her Facebook account and she very rarely
posed to it, but once in a while she does. And I'm she's
she's still they're at the New York, New York and is still looking good
and she seems to not age at all. Yeah, that was that was
I don't know, eight or nine years ago, ten years ago, something
in that range. And uh, and you can't. You can find the
episode at Gambling with an Edge dot com. Uh, they're all there.
So all right. One of one of my favorite shows that we haven't really
talked about, and this one chap wasn't. There was m Kelly's son and
along with Lori Chang as an interpreter talking about the Phil kelly Son was with
Phil Ivey and Bargato and Crawford on the whole cardinging. It was a delight
Yeah, edge sorting and um so there was that was really interesting. I
do remember one of them, actually, I guess what I remember was one
of my one liners. I lived for one liners that I do, and
often my one liners don't land as well as they're supposed to. They sound
really good in my head and then when I say, am I going oh
dear? I didn't really mean to say that, but on this one they
were. She was saying why she likes uh back raw and the idea was
you can get really big bets down because like in Blackjack, she said,
you can. They rarely ever let you bet more than twenty five thousand a
hand, and so my comment was only twenty five thousand, man, you
can't make any money that way so I was. I was proud of that
line, such as it was. But um, each of us live for
different things. Do you have a favorite show that you liked, Richard,
Well, that one that was definitely a really good show. Um, you
know, my favorite shows are the ones with the Vegas old timers. So,
uh, like the Mike Sexton Show. You know, I love these
old stories about Vegas back in the day and the crazy betting and the So
the Mike Sexton Show was one U two shows with Billy Baxter. Um,
yeah, those those are my favorites, those guys from from way back telling
stories about what it was like. Dewey Tomko was another one. Yeah,
and then when you get Stanford Wong or Ed Thorpe as, these are legends
in our in our industry. It's like Philip, Well, that's pretty cool.
Another one I liked was during the Jeopardy right after James Holtzhauer had his
multi million dollars run, he came on the show and said he had a
choice between coming onto our show. He was also invited to go to Good
Morning America and be on that show, and he chose Gambling with an Edge,
in which case I lived off of that comment for months, I thought
that was pretty cool. So, Michael Schackoper, do you have any final
words or thoughts to our listeners about your involvement with the show? Well,
thank you for asking. I believe that between being a co host for a
while and lots of appearances on the show, I think I've been on about
eighty and I it's been I'm very proud to have been a part of this
show. I think it's a great show. There's nothing else, in my
opinion, that compares to it. So thank you very much for having me
for every single show. Thank you and thank you. And each co host
is different, and so each one adds something that the other ones don't.
And so I learned from both of you two and the guests that you selected,
and thank you both and Frank neilin. Oh you know what, while
we're thanking people, I just want to say I want to thank I guess
I don't want it. Well, So first of all, I want to
thank a guy we will call Nick, who designed our logo. About ten
years ago. We went through two or three or four different logos and he
designed the one that finally stuck and out of the blue a couple of years
ago, he emailed me a sharper one. He was saying, you know,
it was looking kind of shoddy. I guess maybe the technology was a
little better, so he sent me a crisper one. So we want to
thank him. I want to thank the person. And I didn't realize I
was going to do this until just now, so I didn't look up his
name, but the guy who did the current opening music for the show,
who is an avid listener, so I want to thank him, And most
importantly, I also want to thank mister Doppy, who has been doing our
show notes for the last five years, which is a thankless job, and
he has never missed an episode in that five years that he's been doing it.
So I really want to thank all of them. Yeah, and when
we started out, we had a musical logo using money as a song and
want the announced rover at KLIS, which is the AM station, whose voice
is very low and he's actually in a in a fifties rock band. It's
just great the way he would say welcome to gambling with an edge. But
we had to use that. We had to close that after a while because
we didn't have license to use that particular song. But but I enjoyed his
way. He would say, welcome to gambling, so that was cool,
all right. Thank you Michael for today. Thank you for your support over
the years on the Gambling with an Edge. Thank you Richard Grunt and had
lots of royal flushes. Everybody, good day,