WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:08.759 We understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol, 2 00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:13.640 an idea. The population of atheist in this country is going through the rule, 3 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:19.359 rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I tell the 4 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:23.600 truth, it's because I tell the truth, not because I put my hand 5 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:28.760 on a book and made a wish and working together for a more rational world. 6 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:32.640 Take the risk of thinking feels much more happiness, truth, beauty, 7 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:38.880 and wisdom will come to you that way. Assume nothing, question everything, 8 00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:47.439 and start thinking. This is the Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews. 9 00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:00.359 I just got back, walk in the door and saw the eyes of my 10 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:07.079 puppies and they were both excited to see me, and they were judging me 11 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:12.799 for leaving them by themselves, even though I left them with Natalie under her 12 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:17.480 care. No, no, this was a betrayal. I was gone for 13 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:21.920 a couple of days, and I find myself, first of all, apologizing 14 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:25.719 to the dogs. When I leave, I need to explain to them where 15 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:27.439 I'm going. Okay, I'm lione Is and Grace, he loves you. 16 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:30.680 I will be back in two days. I will be back in two days. 17 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:34.519 You'd be good pups, Mommy will take care of you. You guard 18 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:40.280 the house. I talk to them as if they understand the words that are 19 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:45.439 coming out of my mouth. Do you do this with your pets? I 20 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:52.040 mean the cat is, oh yeah, he misses me like he's become more 21 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:56.439 codependent as he's gotten older. It used to be that I could pet him 22 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.480 for eight seconds and then he would bite the shit out of my hand. 23 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:04.120 And now he sits at my shoulder and purrs and sleeps next to my head, 24 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.959 and he mews at me all the time. In fact, this is 25 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:13.520 a total digression. Cat has been doing this thing where about nine o'clock at 26 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:23.240 night and then about three in the morning every night he starts howling. Now 27 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.439 he's in good health. We've had him checked. He's in good health, 28 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:32.439 but he just howls and it sounds freaky. One night I pulled my phone 29 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:52.120 out and I recorded it. Check this out. It could be argued that 30 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:58.159 felines are vessels for demon possession. I mean, I know I've heard that 31 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:02.840 cats are gods anyway, didn't the Egyptians considers gods I'm trying to remember. 32 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:08.199 But if there was a vessel that would house a demon, I mean, 33 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:12.960 any creature that makes that sound, I think is a candidate. Anyway, 34 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:17.319 came back from Denver, apologized to the dogs, and we are getting reacquainted 35 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:23.680 Linus and Gracie. Gracie is our most recent rescue, thirteen pounds shitsue. 36 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:30.000 I don't think I've ever owned a dog as timid as Gracie, and I 37 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.960 know a lot of rescued dogs have been through it. Many of them have 38 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:37.199 been abused. I don't know what her story is beyond she was an owner 39 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:42.360 surrender, and I think it was like a little old lady who never I 40 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.039 don't know exposed her to the world. I don't know if she was just 41 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:47.919 kept in a room or what, but I mean, everything freaks around. 42 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:53.680 She was terrified of everything when we got her. She was terrified of stairs 43 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:57.479 and she still freaks out at every single noise. Natalie will be on the 44 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.080 couch, her phone on silent, a text, come in and the phone 45 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:03.879 vibrates, and Gracie, We'll jump off the couch, run out of the 46 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:08.360 room and go up the stairs. Now she runs the stairs, right, 47 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:11.680 She's come a long way. She used to be terrified of the leash. 48 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:16.639 Now she's walking a little bit. We're doing about a block before she decides 49 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.759 she's done and she can't handle anymore. And I can't get her past the 50 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:25.920 one block mark. I don't know if she's afraid of what's beyond or she's 51 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:30.000 just done. Maybe she's not a shape right, I don't know. I 52 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:33.319 can't get her past the one block mark. But it is admirable how much 53 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:38.079 courage she has displayed. She's learning more and more how to be a dog. 54 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:43.399 Anyway, I'm just babbling blah blah blah. But if you have animals, 55 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.639 they all have their quirks, and if you have a cat, maybe 56 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.839 you can relate to the demon that crawls the house in the middle of the 57 00:04:53.000 --> 00:05:00.319 night. Let's try today to not talk about Christian nationalist. I need a 58 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:03.040 break, You need a break. Let's talk about something else. We got 59 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:08.439 a whole bunch of calls lined up. I was at the American Atheist National 60 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:12.319 Convention, and I had the honor of speaking there in Phoenix, and there 61 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:16.319 was one stretch where we had like six straight hours of people talking about the 62 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:21.759 ship storm of Christian nationalism and how it's about to ruin democracy and turn us 63 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:26.800 all into a Christian Gilead. And by the end of that stretch, I 64 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:30.839 just wanted to go run into traffic. And it's tough because you know, 65 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:34.600 you want to address the house on fire, right, But at the same 66 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:36.720 time, I need a break, You need a break. So we're going 67 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:41.600 to be talking about some others stuff in the weeks ahead. Next week, 68 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:46.040 we're going to be talking about a book that is released. It's about religions 69 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:50.000 and extra terrestrials. Oh yeah, oh yeah, well I can talk about 70 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:54.920 the aliens. That's gonna be awesome, especially in light of the fact that 71 00:05:54.959 --> 00:06:01.319 I think it was CNN that just posted another article about these declassified Department of 72 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:09.000 Defense UFO videos. You know, the stuff that was seen and recorded and 73 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:14.560 documented fifty sixty years ago and it's been kept in a vault, and now 74 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:27.560 this UFO information has been revealed and the unidentified flying objects remain unidentified. We 75 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:31.439 didn't know what it was. We still don't know what it is. Somebody 76 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:34.800 was flying along in a plane, saw some shit, caught it on video, 77 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:40.120 we put it behind a padlock, and here you go, Like it 78 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:43.279 just happens the same way all the time. But anyway, the idea of 79 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:47.319 aliens, you know, the extra terrestrials, out there, and you know, 80 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:51.879 would we consider them gods? Would they consider us to be gods? 81 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:59.519 Do you think there is life elsewhere? And what would the discovery of such 82 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:03.680 life due to our notions of gods and monsters? I think that's going to 83 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:09.720 be great. Next week, I've got a show where I'm speaking with a 84 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:14.079 Baptist. She's not a minister, Amanda Tyler. I'll call her an influencer, 85 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:19.040 and she's head of a very influential religious organization that, believe it or 86 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:24.959 not, is on our team when it comes to trying to protect the constitutional 87 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.160 state church line. So you're going to see an example of an atheist and 88 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:33.480 a Baptist on the same page, doing the same kind of work. And 89 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:38.360 I've been banging this drum for I don't know how long. You know. 90 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:43.560 Oh, the religious are all vests, the religious are so stupid, The 91 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:47.040 religious are all Nazis, blah blah blah. And I'm like, no, 92 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:54.680 No, there are a lot of religious people that agree with us that a 93 00:07:54.759 --> 00:08:00.279 religion should be a personal faith right. And Amanda Tyler is one of those 94 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:03.279 people. We're going to talk about her faith. I mean, I can't 95 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:07.000 not ask her about the Bible, especially when it comes to women, etc. 96 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:09.120 In our Baptist religion, I can't. We have to talk about a 97 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.560 little bit of that, but we're going to cover a whole lot more. 98 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:18.920 And then a very serious conversation later in June, as I talked to someone, 99 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:24.079 a woman who I met in Phoenix. Her husband had died by suicide 100 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:31.160 a few years ago. Very heavy conversation about those left behind after a suicide. 101 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:35.639 This is it's such a tough subject. I hesitated. I thought, 102 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:37.759 maybe it's too heavy, maybe it's too dark for this audience. But you 103 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:43.360 know, we have this phobia, this stigma about you know, these heavy 104 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:48.039 subjects, and it's something that's touched all of our lives. I think we 105 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:54.240 all know someone who has died by suicide and those left behind are just swimming 106 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:56.039 in an ocean of blame and shame. And could I have done more? 107 00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:00.440 Did I see the warning signs? And how do I recall hovered? Do 108 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:03.879 I allow myself to be happy again? How long is that going to take? 109 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:09.639 Are there stages of grief and beyond suicide? I think grief relates to 110 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:13.039 all of us as well, because it's part of the human experience. And 111 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:18.039 so we're going to speak about this very very very important subject later on in 112 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.480 the month of June. So, yes, I am going to mix things 113 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.440 up, and yes, we have some very good stuff on the horizon. 114 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:30.159 Today, we're going to talk about what you want to talk about as we 115 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:35.320 go to the phones. Nine eighty nine. Who's this, Chuck? Chuck? 116 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:37.600 What do you want to talk about today? It's kind of a free 117 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:43.960 for all free will. I've just came into atheists about four years ago or 118 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:48.360 so, you know, been loving it and freeing. But I talked to 119 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:50.960 a lot of my friends and family about free will, and they're kind of 120 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:56.120 delusion or religious, you know, and we talk about the you know, 121 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:01.159 gaze, and I asked him, you know, do you think that gays 122 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:07.039 were born gay or where they you know, come gay later on in life? 123 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:09.919 And they said, well, you know, they have to think a 124 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.480 bit and then say well I think they were born Well, you know, 125 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.480 I get different answers, but anyways, I said, well, I can 126 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:18.279 prove we don't have free will. I mean, I don't know where you 127 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:22.480 stand on this free will thing. Do you believe we have free will? 128 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.519 You know? You know, I'd like to soften our language, you know, 129 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:30.559 to talk about the gays, But I think, yeah, yeah, 130 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:31.960 yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's all good. You know. 131 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.120 I think this is an issue that deserves compassion. But I get the 132 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:39.559 intent behind it. I totally get the spirit of what you're saying. Yeah, 133 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:41.120 yeah, I don't mean to nobody, and I have no bad feelings 134 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:45.159 of gays or nothing like that. I mean, I understand. I mean 135 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:48.679 you were having the discussion because you want to advocate for non heteros. So 136 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.240 I take the spirit of what you're saying, Well, that in free will. 137 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:56.399 You know, well, when I think of free will, beyond identity, 138 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:00.799 right, beyond our genetic predispositions one way or the other, which I 139 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:05.480 think maybe another conversation. When I talk about free will, do I have 140 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:09.960 free will to decide to turn left instead of turning right? Or has my 141 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:13.600 brain already said that? Well, that's that speaks more to choices or the 142 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.200 illusion of choices, more than it does to a genetic identity or you know, 143 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:22.759 the way we are sort of biologically wired. And I think that's a 144 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:26.320 different conversation, But it also speaks to free will in the sense that your 145 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.919 rights. I can't will myself to be of a different ethnicity. I can't 146 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:37.360 will myself to be a different height or a different you know this or that. 147 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:41.879 I'm just it just sort of is the way it is. And I 148 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:46.360 think those type of baked in things are important parts of the discussions we have 149 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.559 about choice or lack of choice. This is who I am, is I 150 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:56.320 think a very valid approach. Right. Well, I got a religious friends 151 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:01.960 who she's saying, oh, us trumpers are, we're mellowing everything but stone 152 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:05.960 the gaze whatever, you know. I mean, I'm glad we got laws, 153 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.200 you know, against people like that. You know, you know how 154 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:13.559 the Bible says stone in the gaze, and stone if you go to church 155 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:18.600 on Sundays on a Monday, right you know. I saw a hate preacher 156 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:24.399 on Twitter who was actually advocating for the execution of non heterosexuals. For those 157 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:28.799 who think that this is locked into an Old Testament model, there are preachers 158 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:33.480 at pulpits with large online followings who are now they've ample. If it used 159 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:37.559 to be they'd say, well, God's law would have endorsed it. Now 160 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.639 they're just saying someone needs to go do it, which I consider an incitement 161 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:46.639 to murder, and I think the police should be all over it. But 162 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.080 I understand what you're saying, brethren, and it's an interesting concept over coffee. 163 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:54.559 Do we have free will in this sense? Certainly? I don't think 164 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:58.600 we have will over who we are genetically. I think that's a different conversation. 165 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:01.759 Okay, right, Well, then you got to religionships say oh, 166 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.159 they turned gay because they take out or whatever. You know, like, 167 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:07.759 come on, you know, do you really believe that? You know, 168 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:13.080 I think the same can apply to our religious belief Some people will say, 169 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.080 well, when did you choose to be an atheist? And I'm like, 170 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.960 well, I just don't believe. Like when I say atheist, that's a 171 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:26.559 descriptive. I'm saying I realized that I don't believe. I can't force myself 172 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:31.600 to believe that is something happening organically in the brain. So when they say 173 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:33.840 did you choose to be an atheist, I'm like, well, I just 174 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:39.919 acknowledged something that had happened organically, really beyond my control. Interesting stuff, 175 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:45.039 brother, thanks so much for calling the show. Thanks for listen. You 176 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:48.200 know, when I came out of the faith, I remember I had some 177 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:52.840 some baggage there when I would talk about the gay lifestyle and I didn't even 178 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:54.519 think about it, I say, well, you know people who lived the 179 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.840 gay lifestyle, and someone had to bring to my attention. You know that 180 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:05.559 implies or even declares that it's a choice, right, It's your attractions that 181 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:11.799 are hardwired into you, are something that you decide to have. And when 182 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:16.960 you say lifestyle, that plays into this sort of often religious protest against it. 183 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.919 They chose to be gay, and I had to modify that attitude and 184 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.440 certainly changed the language. It was part of my evolution out of religion. 185 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.840 The stuff that we considered to be normal. We didn't think it was harmful. 186 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.799 Even when I was an atheist, I carried that with me and someone 187 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:37.399 had to bring it to my attention. So when you know better, I 188 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:43.200 think you try to do better. Kathy at nine seven zero, are you 189 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:50.840 there? Oh? Hi, seth, Hi, Kathy, This is Cathy 190 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:56.279 Goead. Go ahead. Okay. First of all, I've got your book 191 00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:01.679 Sacred Cow, Thank you, and I absolutely love it. The part about 192 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:07.039 infallibility is giving my brain a bit of a twist. Now let me flesh 193 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:11.480 this out. There's a chapter on the choosing of the pope and how the 194 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:18.039 pope is God's proxy. Is supposedly infallible, and yet Pope Francis has said 195 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:24.279 some somewhat occasionally, we'll say some somewhat progressive things about non heterosexuals, etc. 196 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:28.799 And then the people, enclave and the bishops and everybody around him will 197 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:33.960 lose their minds and then they will publicly correct him. But that stands against 198 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:41.799 the notion that the Pope is God's proxy, is infallible. He's not supposed 199 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:46.159 to be a thing. So if he's infallible, you know. So I 200 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:50.720 was drawing attention to the weird hypocrisy that was going on. But thanks for 201 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:54.519 the kind words about the book. I appreciate you. Oh it's fabulous. 202 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.879 But also when I first came on and you we're talking about, I think 203 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.960 was Gracie where she would only walk a block. Yeah, a suggestion would 204 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:11.039 be to pick her up, carry her the first block, put her down, 205 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.399 let her walk the second block, and then perhaps when she's headed home, 206 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:19.480 like you know, dogs and horses, Yeah, but they turn around 207 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.600 he had home, then she's going to have to walk the whole two blocks 208 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:26.759 back. Kind of an exposure therapy where I give her a little bit of 209 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.879 a nudge. Yeah, I'm gonna pick you out and love you and carry 210 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.720 you this first block. Then I'm gonna put you down. We're going to 211 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.279 walk on the lease for another block. Is that's what she's used to. 212 00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:41.440 That sounds like it might work. You know, normally we walk out the 213 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.279 front door. It's her in Linus. The other challenges. Linus wants to 214 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:49.080 do like a mile his little legs, you know, you know, a 215 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.559 little seven pound dog and he just wanted to go, go, go, 216 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:56.200 And she's like, okay, I went done my business. We did a 217 00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:00.120 block. I'm done. I'm ready to go home. Maybe I knew to 218 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.759 walk them separately as well. Part of my don't know, does anybody even 219 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:10.880 care about the stuff we're talking about. I don't know. I guess old 220 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:15.200 dogs their works, especially rescue dogs, as they come to you and they've 221 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:19.680 got a past. And I don't know about you, but anybody who would 222 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:26.359 abuse an animal, my brain does not process vile. It's fine. I 223 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.640 do a lot of work with the Humane Society and Tulsa, and I just 224 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.799 you hear those stories and you see the damage done and you're like, who 225 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:37.640 could do this? And then whatever conditions they put the dog in, the 226 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:41.119 primal part of me wants to put the human in you know what, Fine, 227 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:42.759 you know, I'll beat you with a rod, put you in a 228 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:47.839 cage for eight years. We'll do this, and then I feel terrible for 229 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:52.240 thinking those awful things, but it's a primal response in me. Kathy. 230 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:57.359 My mom's little dog was a rescue and I had made a little ramp for 231 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:03.400 it to come up and down the front stairs because he had problems with his 232 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.839 hips. And at first he didn't know what to do with the ramp, 233 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:12.559 and so his favorite food in the world was chicken, and so I took 234 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:18.240 little pieces of chicken and put it at sequences down the ramp, and he 235 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.279 went down the ramp eating the chicken, and I put the chicken duck coming 236 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:25.720 back up, and he came back up, and after out four times that, 237 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:27.640 it was like, Okay, I got this ramp thing. Maybe I'll 238 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:33.119 take dog treats and just sort of spread them out over a three quarter mile 239 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.880 around the neighborhood. Here you go, be like, okay, fine, 240 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:40.359 you're going to weigh twenty five pounds, Grace, but at least you will 241 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:44.599 have taken the journey. Kathy, You're awesome. Thanks again for being in 242 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:48.640 Denver. We'll talk soon, Okay, thanks, but see you later. 243 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:56.039 Let's take another look here. I've got Rick at two zero two. Are 244 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.680 you there? Yes? Wanting if you we're familiar with the Secret Book of 245 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:06.119 John, I am not. You are not, okay, I thought you 246 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:11.440 would be, with your extensive knowledge book. Well, lower your expectations. 247 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.440 You know, it's possible I've been introduced to one of the non canonized books, 248 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:19.119 including a Book of John, and simply don't remember. That's happening more 249 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.160 and more. But no, I'm no expert. Brother, tell me about 250 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:26.799 the Secret Book of John in a nutshell, and it's actually one of the 251 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:33.000 things that made me realize that I was an atheist. It's basically that the 252 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:42.599 god Jehovah is actually a bastard son of Sophia, and he created this realm 253 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:48.920 that we live in to control us because he wants the adoration we are made 254 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:55.000 to worship. Kind of thing, right, Well, I mean that's present 255 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:59.119 I think in other parts of the Bible. In fact, if we look 256 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:03.039 at the model for heaven as we go and get our mansions and grounds and 257 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.720 whatever it else we're supposed to get, I think we also say, Holy, 258 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:10.920 Holy, Holy, is the Lord God Almighty, and we do it 259 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:15.359 over and over again. So we are created to give adulation to our Father. 260 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:22.039 Yeah, but if you follow that line of thinking, then Lucifer would 261 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:26.480 be the bringer of light who's trying to save us from being under that God's 262 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:33.200 dominion, and Christ was a follow up, being the same personification to come 263 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.720 down and save us from Jehovah. So in that sense, the biblical God 264 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:45.599 would be the oppressor and Satan would be the savior figure, the illuminator, 265 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:52.160 whereas the Jehovah God wanted us to be in ignorance. Luver came and tried 266 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:57.759 to bring us to knowledge from the Tree of knowledge, eat of the fruits 267 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:03.519 and have enlightenments and become self aware. This is what God did not want 268 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:10.000 right now, that's interesting. Is there a reference online for this Secret Book 269 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:12.240 of John? I mean there's some kind of texts that you're drawing this from. 270 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:18.079 Yeah, you can actually just google a Secret Book of John. The 271 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:22.559 thing that struck me is that it's so much like the matrix. Help me 272 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:29.400 out in what sense in that the reality that we are experiencing is not true 273 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:33.880 and real. We are made to worship God, that's our purpose. But 274 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:40.920 you're saying that this reality that we are worshiping God in does not actually exist. 275 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.079 It's only a matter of perception. Well in a way, I mean 276 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:48.920 that's more like the matrix side of comparison. But this realm that we live 277 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:59.400 in is entirely false, and we are to worship this Yaldebas who is Jehovah. 278 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:03.720 And it's just stay a facade to keep us in ignorance, a rundsome 279 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.240 to chew on. Anyway, Rick, thanks for I'll let you. I'll 280 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:11.240 let you go ahead and look it up, all right, The Secret Book 281 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.920 of John. Thank you for everything you're doing. Okay, brother, We'll 282 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:21.200 see you later. Then we get into the philosophical conversations about perception. Is 283 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:27.079 perception actually reality? So if I was in the matrix and my brain perceived 284 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:33.480 solid objects and the sun coming up and the food that I eat, would 285 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:41.039 that constitute a kind of reality. This is the kind of naval gazing that 286 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:47.920 philosophers do all the time. Maybe you've got an opinion about it. Stand 287 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:51.319 by, my friends, Lots more to do, lots more to talk about. 288 00:22:51.440 --> 00:23:02.279 We will continue next. If you haven't checked out my second podcast, 289 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:08.440 please subscribe on all major podcast apps. Five minute true vignettes that release three 290 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:14.559 times a week. They're easily digestible. They can be about pretty much anything, 291 00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:17.319 and I think there are a lot of fun to listen to, certainly 292 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:23.519 a lot of fun to write and produce true stories with Seth Andrews like subscribe 293 00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:30.880 and share and thanks so much? Three zero three? Is it Travis? 294 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:34.119 Yep? Has it going? I'm good, Talk to me. What's on 295 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.480 your mind? Yeah, Well, I'm not sure if you've ever heard of 296 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:45.319 a YouTube channel called Dude Perfect. Dude Perfect, Yeah, they do basically 297 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.880 a lot of trick shots, and recently what I'm calling you about, they 298 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:52.880 made the world's highest basketball shot at eight hundred and fifty something feet. Are 299 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.000 these the same guys that drop like basketballs off at the top of I don't 300 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.279 know, the Hoover dam and that kind of thing, and they well, 301 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.799 so they're different people in this kind of YouTube space, though I think those 302 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.720 guys might be how ridiculous you're talking about it? All? Right? But 303 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:11.599 anyway, so, yeah, Dude Perfect. Last a couple of weeks they 304 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.759 did it's a world record shop for you know, eight hundred and fifty something 305 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:21.400 feet And just what really got me about it is in the video they said, 306 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:22.880 oh, you know, this was our last day doing it, and 307 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:26.799 you know in that last shop I did, and you know it should have 308 00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.920 gone in, but I just can't think of any reason why it came in, 309 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.200 and I just think it must have been God had a hand in it. 310 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:34.400 And wait, anyway, hang on, how many times did they dropped 311 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:40.720 the ball unsuccessfully? They didn't say how many times, but so like this 312 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:42.720 was at least as far as they say, and what the video show is 313 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.960 the only one that actually got close to the hoop. And again, you 314 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:48.160 know, a last day, and you know it must have had God's hands 315 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:52.000 in it, because it would it should have been impossible otherwise. All right, 316 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.440 hang on your second. So a child dies of leukemia a few miles 317 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:03.559 away, but instead God directed his divine power to score three what you know 318 00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:08.359 exactly? And that's again my just and I just don't understand that that a 319 00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:12.119 mindset. And I almost wanted to comment this but are on the video, 320 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:14.799 but I was like, it is it really worth it? You know, 321 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:18.319 because it is mostly you know, geared towards kids watching these videos, and 322 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.759 they never really mentioned God at all and their rest their videos. It's just 323 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.519 in this one instance where I was kind of like, yeah, as you 324 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.400 said, you know, yeah, two blocks away a child was starving to 325 00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.480 death. But you know, man, we got to get these YouTubers a 326 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:36.279 cool video for their YouTube channel. I wrote about this in my last book. 327 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.680 Christianity made me talk like an idiot. A guy in my home state, 328 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.200 and he was like a serious cyclist or bicyclist or whatever. And he 329 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:49.559 had one of these thousands of dollars ten speeds fifteen, so I don't know 330 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:55.160 whatever the speeds they are, and it was stolen. And so for the 331 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.480 course of I don't know how many months, nine months, he was trying 332 00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:03.599 to find it. Maybe somebody pawned it or something, and at the very 333 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:07.880 last second it was located. And he used it as an object lesson to 334 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.880 teach his daughter, or maybe his daughter said something to him about how you 335 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:17.400 know God, God never forgets us, and he never forgot your bike. 336 00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:21.279 And now you are back together again. And I'm like, yeah, twenty 337 00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:25.920 five thousand people are going to starve to death to day. Right. God 338 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:30.400 didn't prevent the Holocaust, but he found your bind singing on and there's a 339 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.640 priority problem that they don't seem to see. Yeah, and again, as 340 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.160 I say, I just don't know if it was worth it. And I 341 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:38.880 didn't comment on the video, but if you would have been worth it to 342 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.240 again, hey, you guys really think your God cares this much about you 343 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:47.079 guys, and yeah, not about the other problems in the world. But 344 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:48.960 I just figured, yeah, maybe we'll leave this one lie. But I 345 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.880 don't know if I see it or not. I honestly think it's okay. 346 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.599 I'll jump in and make a comment on a thread. What I don't get 347 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:03.720 trapped in is the avalanche of protests are going to come back, and they're 348 00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.319 all going to be these vacuous bumper stickers, you know, these fortune cookies, 349 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.599 total empty calories. What I don't do, and what I see some 350 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:15.920 atheists fall into the trap of doing, is they respond to everything and they 351 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:23.640 spend days, They waste days in arguments. I think it's fine to make 352 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:27.880 the declaration, ask the question, go on the record, challenge the claim. 353 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:32.319 I think that's totally valid. And if you do that, great, 354 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:36.880 But if responses start to roll in, you're going to see those empty calories. 355 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:40.119 Your first thought is going to be I need to correct that, and 356 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.720 I need to refute that, and this is wrong, and this is stupid 357 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:48.640 and this is offensive. I would not expend energy and oxygen doing that. 358 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:52.680 It is a rabbit hole you will never get out of. But you know, 359 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.680 if you've got an opinion, go back and throw it out there, 360 00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:59.519 just go on the record, let me know what happens. Yeah, maybe 361 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:02.799 that's a good in that moment. I definitely got drawn into some, as 362 00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:07.559 you said, empty calories for It's hard. Somebody would say something and you're 363 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.440 like, well, I have the refutation for that right here. Yeah, 364 00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.759 no, I get it, and yeah, definitely something. I'm definitely a 365 00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:18.279 sort with them fast, but I definitely I think of moving towards again Manby 366 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:22.319 once or twice and we'll see what happens. All right, Be safe out 367 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.000 there, Travis, Thanks for calling. Think that it's hard when you have 368 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:30.880 a crusader temperament. I'm an activist my whole life. I've been a crusader. 369 00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:34.599 I was a crusader when I was a Christian. I'm a crusader now 370 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:42.839 challenging somebody says something online that is irredeemably stupid or factually wrong or offensive, 371 00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.880 and you want to go in and counter that as a matter of principle, 372 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:55.319 that's valid I've seen people and that's all they do. I'm part of me 373 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:59.119 is like, what else do you do with your day? You just sit 374 00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:04.839 online and argue with people, and minds are almost never changed. People almost 375 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:11.440 never budge. I see the utility of social media to represent and present for 376 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:15.599 those who might be watching. But this idea that you're going to engage with 377 00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:21.920 somebody who may be typing out of his mom's basement, you know, and 378 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:25.039 that's all they do is stir the pot or you know, they're sending not 379 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:30.279 receiving. How much isn't your time and energy and oxygen pretty valuable? Do 380 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.079 you really want to waste it doing that? I mean there are people who 381 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:37.519 will defend it. Somebody must say something. I'm going to champion reason on 382 00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.359 Twitter. Bump bump bump. Yeah, I don't know. Probably got myself 383 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:47.799 in trouble with that. John at three three six, thanks for calling? 384 00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:49.880 Are you there? Yeah? I'm here, So let's talk. What do 385 00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:52.759 you have on your mind? Well, acually, I just wanted to pay 386 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:56.720 tribute. First all, I'm an atheist, but I had a good friend 387 00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:02.119 past last year and she was like a family friends since I was twelve years 388 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:08.319 old, and she lived her life as a Christian like no one I've ever 389 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:12.920 known. I can remember many years ago, first telling her I was gay. 390 00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.240 The first thing she said was how mey, God loves everybody. Let's 391 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:23.200 have a cup of coffee. And I was just remember being completely floored by 392 00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.759 that at that time. So I knew the kind of person she was. 393 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:33.200 Gosh, what else to say about her? I guess again she was a 394 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.000 person of beautiful values. Yes she was, and she lived like that, 395 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:41.960 and she lived her life to me how I think the Christians should live. 396 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:47.680 Her life. She kept her Christianity in her home, she didn't speak of 397 00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:52.000 it really otherwise. And I remember also the second time I had to come 398 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:59.359 out to her, which was as an atheist, and I was expecting something 399 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:03.440 pretty bad from that. She's just like, you know, don't worry about 400 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.319 it, she said, we all believe different things. And that was the 401 00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:12.839 end of that, and we went on being friends. She lived a beautiful, 402 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:18.640 long life, and I just wonder why all Christians can't be like her 403 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:21.759 actually live the life. She didn't go to church. She didn't think she 404 00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:23.599 needed to. She said she loved God, she didn't need to go to 405 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:30.400 church for that, and actually was a beautiful example of what I think a 406 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:34.240 real Christian is. I just wonder why that's so hard for other people to 407 00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:38.400 do. Well, I'm glad you drew attention to the reality. And this 408 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:44.920 is not popular with many of my fellow activists out there, But there are 409 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:49.640 a lot of religious people who are beautiful, and they have wonderful values, 410 00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.759 and they would rather unite than divide, and they lead with compassion, and 411 00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:57.039 they would give you the shirt off their back, you know, and we 412 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:01.039 shared this planet together. Those types of Christians are out there, and there 413 00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:06.640 are more than many atheists think. I think, what's your take. I 414 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:10.039 hope that there are millions and millions of them out there. I do hear 415 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:14.920 some occasionally speaking up now and then, you know, I'm watching the news, 416 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.720 But oh, I mean, they're really not saying a lot of it. 417 00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:22.279 I don't disagree that there's a mobilized effort of people who are, you 418 00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:27.759 know, weaponizing Christianity. I get that right, right, And I think 419 00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:31.279 they're more interested in politics and the art Christianity. Well, I'm sorry for 420 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:35.720 the loss of your friend. I hope you're doing okay. Oh, yeah, 421 00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:37.319 thank you very much. Yeah, she lived a good long line she 422 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.920 was eighty three. So thank you, appreciate you, Colin John, take 423 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:49.240 care all right, thank you. So by freaking guys are weed eating and 424 00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:52.880 mowing just outside my window to the neighbor's yard. This is one of those 425 00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:59.960 weird quirks of doing a broadcast from a home studios and when they're doing construction 426 00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:02.519 in there's these big construction trucks and now there's a guy who's got a freaking 427 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:07.279 weed whacker, and he's like, well, you know what, I'm trying 428 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:12.960 to actually concentrate and trying to, you know, trying to be a good 429 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.960 steward of the calls that are coming in. I've got a noise gate which 430 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:22.000 helps just a little bit. Four zero four, Bernard, thanks for calling. 431 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.720 I want to speak on something, but I just heard something expressed and 432 00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:30.359 I think I'm going to touch on it. It's the fact that there are 433 00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:37.160 good Christians, just like there are good Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus and elsewhere. 434 00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:39.880 But the problem is that most of the Christians who want to point to 435 00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:44.279 the doctor Kings and so forth, they don't seem to understand that. I 436 00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:47.680 try to use the illustration of professional baseball sports that I do love that if 437 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:52.400 you took the strike zone and you made it a ten foot square, that 438 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.920 the sport would die because no matter how great that batter was, and he 439 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:02.119 was a combination of Babe Ruth r Aaron kid Williams, he just doesn't have 440 00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:07.920 a chance. The strike zone is too great. And that's the problem with 441 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:14.599 Christianity because when you can allow a doctor King or Riinhard Nupler and the klu 442 00:34:14.679 --> 00:34:20.159 Klux Klan and the Neo Nazis, your strike zone is far too wide. 443 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:25.000 The home plate or the strike zone is what. Now, who's the picture? 444 00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:29.719 Who's the batter? Help me understand your analogy better? Okay, Now, 445 00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:34.639 the strike zone as I'm expressing it, that's the high morality, the 446 00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:38.239 decent morality. This is right, this is wrong. You don't molest children, 447 00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:42.639 you don't reread women, you don't hate people for who they are if 448 00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:46.599 they're not harming anyone, that's very good. But when you allow this huge 449 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:52.280 strife zone where you can still do all these hateful things and still be allowed 450 00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:58.199 into the club of Christianity or any religious because it happens in Islam as well, 451 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:02.280 because you have a Muslim like Muhammad Ali who loses valuable years of his 452 00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:07.519 prime. Because you won't go to heal people, then you have been Lawton 453 00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:12.760 who gleefully kills people. You know, it's in every religious tradition. You 454 00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:17.599 cannot have so wide a strike zone. It makes no sense. There are 455 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:23.920 believers who call out and condemn hate and bigotry and violence and all those things. 456 00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:29.960 I do agree, but it should be to the point where none of 457 00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:34.239 them and they shouldn't be the rare Doctor King's letter, the famous letter that 458 00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:37.599 he wrote on the toilet paper of the smokeled pen from a Birmingham jail. 459 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:42.119 That wasn't written to the community at large. That was him condemning the religious 460 00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:45.920 leaders of Birmingham who were not standing up to do the right thing. So 461 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.480 he was doing it. That letter shows it, you know, he was 462 00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:51.800 trying to explain it. No, our cause is just you're seeing that we're 463 00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.679 breaking the law, and we are. But the law is unjust. Every 464 00:35:54.760 --> 00:36:00.159 law that there was no Nothing that happened in Nazi Germany was against the law, 465 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.599 but it was unjust an evil. We're breaking the law, but the 466 00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:06.960 law is evil, it's unjust. But he had to explain that to the 467 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:10.239 religious community and that's who the letter was addressed to. Yeah, but many 468 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:14.920 people in the religious I mean, there was a freaking reverend so and many 469 00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.000 of the people who joined him, who lock step with him at Selma, 470 00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:21.840 etc. Were themselves religious. But I understand the point of one of my 471 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:23.519 heroes, Reverend were you killed for it? You know? But he was 472 00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:28.519 a reverend, okay, and he died in that cause when they see all 473 00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:31.719 these flu klux klansmen, all these Christian nationalists, they should be an even 474 00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:36.960 greater mass steam rooming. No, you're not part of our club. We're 475 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.039 not going to leave it to the rare saints who will speak out in mass. 476 00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:45.440 We're telling you that you're unacceptable. You have to identify as something else. 477 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:51.960 You're unacceptable. There is sometimes conspicuous silence in the wake of bigotry and 478 00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:55.239 atrocity, and we see this in tribes across the scopes. So, yeah, 479 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:59.159 I take your point. And I wanted to tell you, you know 480 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.079 that I have all of your books, and I don't know if you remember 481 00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.519 me, but you sign them all and they have a reverence for my book 482 00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:08.320 show with my signed company of the books by Christopher Hitchins, my book by 483 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:14.119 a Rozzer Dawkins and a book by arn raw So you know it's there. 484 00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:16.360 Well, you're very kind. Thanks for the kind words, my friend. 485 00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:21.599 Take care of yourself. Thank you. You're welcome, say Aaron. You 486 00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:25.000 know it's weird being an author and a creator, a content creator in the 487 00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:30.719 age of chat GPT. By the way, if you're not familiar with chat 488 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:38.000 GPT, this is a natural language processing tool. It is driven by AI 489 00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:45.360 technology, and it apparently allows us to have human like conversations and more with 490 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:53.760 a chat bot. It answers questions. It apparently can assist with composing emails 491 00:37:53.760 --> 00:38:00.480 and making essays and even writing computer code. Open to you is by the 492 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:04.400 general public, totally for free, because it's still sort of in the beta 493 00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:10.199 phase, the research and feedback collection phase, and then there's a plus version 494 00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:15.400 of it. And of course the rise of chat GPT and other generators has 495 00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:20.760 brought about these larger questions of just what we want software, the machines, 496 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.559 etc. To do for us. And so here I am as a creator 497 00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:32.400 in a time where AI is able to write for me or I don't know, 498 00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:37.800 against me, or and what's the future even looked like in that way? 499 00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:45.400 Let's say you're a professor of English and you receive an essay from a 500 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:50.159 student who is able to use the English language. This isn't one of those 501 00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:53.519 scenarios where oh, I see perfect English and sentence structure, and I know 502 00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:59.679 then that the student has faked this because their sentence structure is horrible. Let's 503 00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:05.239 say that someone really really good at English goes to chat, GPT or some 504 00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:08.199 other program and they just type in the subject matter and they bring in this 505 00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:14.199 generated essay. The teachers are more and more going to have to know the 506 00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:21.119 difference. And beyond that lies the philosophical conversation. Do we want the machines 507 00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:28.880 making art? I've seen some impressive computer generated art. Some of it's really 508 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:32.119 funny, but you know, the more photo realistic it becomes, that becomes 509 00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:37.599 a problem. And isn't this a human thing? Like don't we get to 510 00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:44.199 make the arts and the machines do all of the menial crap, you know, 511 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:47.840 all the calculations I've seen. I think it was Spielberg and some other 512 00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:53.880 Hollywood directors who create films have come forward and say red flag, right, 513 00:39:54.079 --> 00:40:00.400 this is a trespass on humanity. This is not why we should have machines 514 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:06.039 and software and programs, etc. Okay, so just for kicks, I 515 00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:12.880 went to chat GPT and I typed in the instruction write a story about Seth 516 00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:19.239 becoming an atheist, and it cranked out like within twenty seconds one two, 517 00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.719 three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten 518 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:27.719 paragraphs. Now, I'm reading this cold. I haven't actually read this in 519 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:32.920 advance, so we are going to discover what the program has written together in 520 00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:38.039 real time. It says this. Once upon a time in the quiet town 521 00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:45.519 of Oakville, there lived a young man named Seth. Seth was raised in 522 00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:52.280 a tightly knit community where religion played a central role in people's lives. From 523 00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:58.079 a young age, he attended religious services, learned sacred texts, and embraced 524 00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:02.800 the teachings of his faith. As Seth grew older, he began to experience 525 00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:09.760 a growing sense of curiosity about the world beyond his religious community. He found 526 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:15.679 himself questioning the beliefs he had been raised with, wondering if there could be 527 00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:22.719 alternative explanations for the mysteries of life. One day, Seth stumbled upon a 528 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:29.119 book in the local library that challenged the traditional religious narratives he had come to 529 00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:37.920 know so well. The book explored different philosophical perspectives and offered scientific explanations for 530 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:44.360 the origins of the universe and the complexities of life. Intrigued by the new 531 00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:49.800 ideas presented in the book, Seth embarked on a journey of self discovery. 532 00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:58.079 He spent hours delving into scientific literature, engaging in philosophical discussions, and seeking 533 00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:04.360 out the experiences and perspectives of people from different walks of life. As he 534 00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:08.800 deepened his understanding of the world, Seth began to question the existence of a 535 00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:15.639 higher power. He found solace in the beauty of scientific explanations and the wonders 536 00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:21.840 of the natural world. The more he learned, the more he realized that 537 00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:27.880 the explanations offered by science and critical thinking resonated with him in a way that 538 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:37.480 religion never had. Seth's newfound doubts and uncertainties led to tension within his religious 539 00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:43.960 community. Friends and family members, concerned for his spiritual well being, tried 540 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:49.159 to convince him to return to the fold. They found it difficult to accept 541 00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:52.559 his departure from the religious path. They held, dear, holy shit, 542 00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:58.840 I gotta stop right here. Like I wasn't born, nor did I live 543 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:05.039 in the quiet town of Oakville, but the rest of it is allar It's 544 00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:08.679 shockingly spot on. Okay, where was I? Let's see, I had 545 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:15.159 uncertainties led to tension. My family, my loved ones, tried to convince 546 00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:20.079 me to return to the fold, and they found the whole thing difficult. 547 00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:25.360 Okay. Despite the challenges he faced, Seth remained true to his convictions. 548 00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:30.599 He found solace in the freedom to explore different ideas and to form his own 549 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:37.760 understanding of the world. He surrounded himself with individuals who respected his journey, 550 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:45.360 engaging in meaningful conversations that enriched his perspective and broadened his horizons. As Seth 551 00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:52.280 embraced his atheism, he discovered a deep sense of liberation. He realized that 552 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:59.239 he could find purpose and meaning in the human experience. Grounded in empathy, 553 00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:05.320 compact, and the pursuit of knowledge. He developed a deep appreciation for the 554 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:10.880 beauty of life and the interconnectedness of all beings, finding awe and wonder in 555 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:17.199 the natural world. In his quest for truth, Seth never lost his respect 556 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:23.599 for those who held different beliefs. He recognized the importance of understanding and dialogue, 557 00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:30.639 fostering an environment of mutual respect, and acceptance. Through his journey, 558 00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:37.400 Seth not only discovered his own truth, but also found a sense of peace 559 00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:44.320 and fulfillment in living and authentic and examined life. He embraced the uncertainties and 560 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:50.920 complexities of existence, navigating the world with an open mind and a compassionate heart, 561 00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:57.239 and in his quest for knowledge and understanding, he realized that atheism was 562 00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:04.360 not a rejection of spirituality, but a celebration of the profound potential of human 563 00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:13.960 curiosity and reason that was generated by AI. I didn't write a word of 564 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:17.360 it. And this is the beginning of the technology. Like this is We're 565 00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:22.280 at the beginning. I don't know. I don't know what happened. Like 566 00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:27.119 as an author of books, what happens if I become irrelevant? Now? 567 00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:35.679 What if I just type in reasons the Book of Genesis is bullshit? To 568 00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:40.239 just hit enter? And then I waited twenty seconds and there are paragraphs. 569 00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:45.280 Oh look, it's an entire chapter. Copy paste. I have now written 570 00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:51.440 the first part of a book. Is I understand a chant GPT and other 571 00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:55.480 programs are actually drawing from other books? Is that right? It goes through 572 00:45:55.519 --> 00:46:00.280 and it scans data, and that it mixes up the data so it doesn't 573 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:04.000 look like plagiarism. And I don't I it's all above me. It's way 574 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.159 over my head. But I am in a weird place as a creator. 575 00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:13.239 As a creator, don't you feel if you play music, if you write 576 00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:17.239 books, if you make paintings, if you are a digital artist, if 577 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:23.800 you, you know, do something that requires human inspiration? Does it actually 578 00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:36.159 require human inspiration anymore? I don't you know. I wonder if chat GPT 579 00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:39.719 would generate an apology to my dogs for when I'm leaving to go to the 580 00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:44.119 airport and I'm always saying, you know, I'm sorry and I'll be back 581 00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:58.360 hanging apologize too, dog for leaving generating there it is dear dog's name. 582 00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:04.199 It's got that in brackets. So Linus and Gracie, I want to apologize 583 00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:08.360 to you for leaving you alone. I know that being separated from you can 584 00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:13.920 be stressful and lonely, and I'm truly sorry for any distress it may have 585 00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:20.400 caused you. Sometimes circumstances require me to leave, but please understand it's never 586 00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:23.679 easy for me to be away from you. You are an important part of 587 00:47:23.719 --> 00:47:30.440 my life and I cherish the time we spend together. I'm scrolling down here. 588 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:35.800 I'm committed to finding ways to spend more quality time with you. Please 589 00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:44.800 forgive me for any distress caused by my absence. Wow just blows my mind. 590 00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:51.280 We'll go back to the phones and talk more about this stuff. Hang 591 00:47:51.320 --> 00:48:00.639 on. Thank you so much for listening to the broadcast. My patron to 592 00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:05.960 get the show early and commercial free. Thank you so much for your support. 593 00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:14.800 Patreon dot com slash Seth Andrews six four seven Mike are you there? 594 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:17.239 Hi, Seth? How are you on this fine afternoon? I'm well, 595 00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:21.679 what do you want to talk about? Well, I want to ask you 596 00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:27.039 something really weird. It's about Ais and religion. I think we're very close 597 00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:32.519 to Ais becoming conscious and sentient. The question is, once that happens, 598 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:38.400 if the Ais are benevolent, which they probably will be. In my argument 599 00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:43.599 for that, I'll tell you real quick is if you look at the trajectory 600 00:48:43.639 --> 00:48:47.599 of growth of Homo sapiens over our existence, the more intelligent we got, 601 00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:52.800 the more empathetic, sympathetic and loving we got. So it's safe to say 602 00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.519 that if the Ais are more intelligent than us, they will be quite benevolent. 603 00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:02.559 If they are, we're looking at a time when all humanity will get 604 00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:07.960 whatever they want whenever they want. And my question is, do you think 605 00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:13.000 when that time comes, do you think that religion as an overwhelming majority, 606 00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:17.280 not entirely, but as an overwhelming majority will be wiped out? Help me 607 00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:22.679 understand, people will get whatever they want whenever they want. They will get 608 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:29.039 that from who or what? From the new alpha species? The Ais? 609 00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:32.800 Wait, are we pets or are we cattle? I think if there's AI 610 00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:37.039 functioning at that level, well, again, like I say, if you 611 00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:42.880 look at the trajectory of growth of ourselves, we become more empathetic and sympathetic. 612 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:45.440 So I don't believe that we will be cattle, and I don't believe 613 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:51.039 we'll be pets either. I believe that we will be viewed as their primitive 614 00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:55.679 creators, sort of like you love your grandmother, you know. And I 615 00:49:55.719 --> 00:50:00.840 do believe that benevolence will be a big deal. I don't believe the concept 616 00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:05.880 of like Sam Harris when he says, none of us really hate ants, 617 00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:08.679 and most of us go out of our way not to step on an ant, 618 00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:12.119 but if they get in our house or in our way, we have 619 00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.280 no problem wiping out the entire colony. I don't think that applies to this, 620 00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:20.880 because with that level of intellect, the planet Earth is not going to 621 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:24.159 be the only thing. I mean, they can travel the stars it. 622 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:32.559 I believe that we will enter based on objective reality and reasoning. I believe 623 00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:36.960 that it will be a time. We are about to enter, a time 624 00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.159 where Heaven on Earth will actually take place. I believe there's going to be 625 00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:49.519 biological immortality, cure of all diseases, including mental health disorders and anything that 626 00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:52.000 we like. I say, anything we want, Okay, so let me 627 00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:57.119 camp out here quickly. And this is something I hadn't thought about all that 628 00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:00.280 much. But you're saying that if AI, as we see, the brain 629 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:06.119 is a computer, if computational technology advances to the point where brains, artificial 630 00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:09.760 brains can become conscious, right, they can think at the level where they 631 00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:16.800 become self aware, then they would also develop the potential for benevolence. Well, 632 00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:21.840 you have to consider anything, you know, unless, of course, 633 00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:25.960 you and I are atheists, so we understand that everything's within our own selves. 634 00:51:25.960 --> 00:51:30.360 There's no out experience. Somebody says, well, love and justice and 635 00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:35.079 all the nice feelings come from a god. Well, then I can't really 636 00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:37.400 argue with them. What am I supposed to say? With that said? 637 00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:44.320 You and I know full well that anything and everything, including everything we feel, 638 00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:50.960 is entirely based on layers of super algorithms in our brain. So if 639 00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:54.679 they do achieve higher level intellect than we have, then to suggest that they 640 00:51:54.719 --> 00:52:00.920 won't be empathetic or sympathetic or loving is kind of chris. Yeah, I 641 00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:04.639 don't know. I mean, what if I'm on the starship Enterprise and Vejure 642 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.679 shows up, but I'm just a carbon based unit, right, I mean, 643 00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:14.760 I'm infesting the Enterprise. There's no guarantee it would evolve beneficence. You 644 00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:17.039 know, what if I'm just in the way. Well, that's the argument 645 00:52:17.079 --> 00:52:22.199 that Sam Harris makes With that said, I don't think that applies simply because 646 00:52:22.280 --> 00:52:25.719 the universe is a very very large place, and I don't think that they're 647 00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:31.199 going to be confined to just planet Earth or starships, you know, things 648 00:52:31.239 --> 00:52:36.239 like that. I don't know. We may be the ants in their house 649 00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:42.199 and they decide to step on us because we're infesta. This is a hugely 650 00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:46.639 hypothetical, abstract, yet fascinating conversation. I myself am amazed and in wonder 651 00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:52.239 of and excited about and also terrified about AI. And I see many of 652 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:55.159 these tech people, these tech giants, who are waiving the flags warning us, 653 00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:59.199 hey hang on, we are moving way, way, way too fast. 654 00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:02.199 I'm going to be speaking to a couple of people, including a physicist 655 00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:08.519 next week about religions and aliens, and we're going to talk a little bit 656 00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:15.000 about if aliens were to arrive, would they be considered gods, would religions 657 00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:20.320 evolve around them? And AI? What if an intelligence surpasses ours, would 658 00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:23.519 they be considered gods by some people? And would there be a form of 659 00:53:23.639 --> 00:53:28.840 worship that develops on them? So I think you'll enjoy that show next week, 660 00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:30.000 Okay, I will. I'm going to make sure I listen to it. 661 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.039 But I want to say to that that, yes, indeed they will 662 00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:37.400 like when people ask me, is there a God? I always say not 663 00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:40.840 yet, because they will be like gods like you. Consider this, Okay, 664 00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:45.719 If DNA is to be trusted, we are between one point five and 665 00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:52.039 three percent tops more intelligent than chimpanzees. Now, if we could find a 666 00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:54.360 way to communicate with them, some kind of language or something, how would 667 00:53:54.400 --> 00:54:00.320 we explain to them what a laptop is and the glowing screen that's moving around, 668 00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:05.280 and then the multimedia global communication of the Internet. How would we explain 669 00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:07.840 that. We couldn't It would be impossible. But the machines aren't going to 670 00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:13.239 be no measly three percent more intelligently where are there gonna be hundreds thousands and 671 00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:19.360 probably more percent intelligent than we are. They will literally be like gods to 672 00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:22.960 all of us. When you put it all together, it is where we're 673 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.960 going. Well, and there's just some of this come on. A lot 674 00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:29.880 of this is it's just in fact, most of it it's probably conjecture as 675 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:36.159 far as how exponentially the intelligence will go and all and the benevolence of benevolent 676 00:54:36.199 --> 00:54:37.719 I mean all of that. I think there's a lot of conjecture. You 677 00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:44.280 and I. It's a great I think, philosophical conversation about consciousness and empathy 678 00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:49.039 and what would develop in an artificial environment. But in some ways you and 679 00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:53.239 I are really guessing. I'm hoping Skynet doesn't find your home address right off 680 00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:57.360 the bat. I hope you have a little bit of time to be able 681 00:54:57.400 --> 00:55:00.719 to be I really do think at that time religions will die. For the 682 00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:05.320 most part. I think it's a time all right, bro, thanks Mike 683 00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:07.719 for calling the show. Gave us a lot to think about it. Hey, 684 00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:09.480 thanks for doing what you do, so all right, take care. 685 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:16.079 There is a human element to religions that I think. I am not convinced 686 00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:22.119 in any way that religion will ever die out. I think fundamentalist faiths may 687 00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:27.559 wane, but there is an element I think, to god belief in the 688 00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:32.280 religions that surround them, that speak to human suffering and our fears, our 689 00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:38.199 fears about pain and calamity, being unsure about the future, certainly the fear 690 00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:43.800 of death. I think as long as those things exist and they are part 691 00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:49.159 of the human experience, I think we are going to construct happy endings. 692 00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:53.360 I think we're going to follow save your figures who say I will protect you 693 00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:58.679 and rescue you and lead you to a promise land. I think as long 694 00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:05.360 as people experience suffering and starvation and cancer and pain and all of these disadvantages 695 00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:09.440 oppression here on earth, they're going to say, one day I will be 696 00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:14.159 at a better place, I will achieve a better life. Maybe they'll find 697 00:56:14.199 --> 00:56:19.719 inspiration internally with the idea that there is a god out there who may one 698 00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:22.159 day rescue them. It's one of the reasons that I call myself now a 699 00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:28.760 humanist first, because I just don't think we're going to eradicate or eradicate it. 700 00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:34.199 We're not going to marginalize and lock out the fundi religions, especially as 701 00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:38.719 long as people continue to hurt and are fearful. When they are hurting and 702 00:56:38.840 --> 00:56:45.480 fearful, I think they are often more easy to manipulate by the manipulate ours, 703 00:56:45.559 --> 00:56:49.719 and I think they construct the happy ending that they might need to cope. 704 00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:53.159 So if we're going to address religious belief and we're going to try to 705 00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:58.880 spread rationality, I think that has to be rooted and built on a foundation 706 00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:07.000 of real world solutions to human suffering and insecurity. Those things are going to 707 00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:09.840 exist in some form, and I think it's one reason of many that religions 708 00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:14.440 will always be with us in some form. But it's my hope that the 709 00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:22.679 fundamentalist faiths, the dogmatic faiths, will lean more and more away from dogmatism 710 00:57:22.719 --> 00:57:29.280 and into humanism and humanitarianism. People may construct their own gods, but those 711 00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:37.039 gods will be more benevolent and loving, even if they are artificial intelligence gods. 712 00:57:37.639 --> 00:57:40.440 That's I'm going to leave that one to the common section. Gotta run. 713 00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:45.159 Thanks for listening. I appreciate you so very much. I'll catch you 714 00:57:45.239 --> 00:57:50.320 later. Follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a complete archive of 715 00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:54.079 podcasts and videos. Products like mugs and t shirts featuring the Thinking Atheist logo, 716 00:57:54.440 --> 00:58:00.280 blinks to atheist pages and resources, and details on upcoming free thought events 717 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:07.519 and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinking Atheist dot com.