1
00:00:15,359 --> 00:00:20,120
What is krak Alac and fellows Thermo
Nuclear A efforts. I am Dana Valley

2
00:00:20,199 --> 00:00:26,600
coming at you with my certified fan
tabulous Thermo Nuclear AF co host mister Grant

3
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,800
Hughes. We are going to get
to our all NBA, All League,

4
00:00:30,839 --> 00:00:33,560
All Defense, all Rookie teams on
this podcast. Go check out the Awards

5
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,079
podcast. It was over two hours
long. It's on YouTube, Spotify,

6
00:00:37,079 --> 00:00:39,600
Apple, wherever you get your podcasts, and hey, since I'm saying it

7
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,079
now, subscribe to us if you
haven't already and you're listening to this.

8
00:00:42,679 --> 00:00:45,920
Grant though, the most important question
before we get started, how the heck

9
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,079
are you doing? I'm doing really
well. I am excited to talk about

10
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,399
the thing I forgot to prep for
last time, which is all the all

11
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,799
NBA, All Rookie and All Defense
teams. And I am also excited because

12
00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:02,640
any of my picks that are not
good won't matter because I won't be alone

13
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,159
because you made all the same ones. Yeah, and look, this was

14
00:01:06,239 --> 00:01:07,719
still really hard. These are our
official picks. There's no go, no

15
00:01:07,799 --> 00:01:12,439
takebacks. This season's almost over,
and I'm still like equivocating on some of

16
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,840
them. I'm not gonna lie.
I had some real thoughts about my fifth

17
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,280
first team spot, like up to
when we started talking, and I'm still

18
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,319
having some I have takes on whether
I mean, we should just get into

19
00:01:25,359 --> 00:01:27,159
this at this point. We're gonna
We're gonna begin with Uh, We're gonna

20
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:32,359
begin with all NBA, because that's
what I mean. Grant kind of demanded

21
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,280
it. I think is that we'll
say demanded work to small let's we like

22
00:01:36,359 --> 00:01:38,480
to front load. We're gonna begin
with all NBA. And the last time

23
00:01:38,519 --> 00:01:44,640
we had done this, we had
said, Okay, there are five locks

24
00:01:45,159 --> 00:01:49,640
or four locks for the first team. I am no longer convinced that there

25
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:56,000
are are four. I think there
are three, but I'm curious as to

26
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,599
where you like. I feel like
I'll say it this way and maybe we

27
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:05,640
could feel it. I think the
three locks for me are are Jokic,

28
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:12,039
SGA, and Luca. Those are
three of my locks. I agree.

29
00:02:12,479 --> 00:02:15,240
So you're you must, then,
by the process of elimination, be suggesting

30
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:20,240
that Yannis is less of a lock
for you now than he was when we

31
00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:23,520
last did this. So yes,
and I think it's because I I think

32
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,000
it's the Bucks had been weird.
He's been part of the weirdness, especially

33
00:02:28,039 --> 00:02:30,199
at the beginning of the season,
him and Dame never feeling like they've quite

34
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,840
meshed. I think Janice has done
a good job, especially later on in

35
00:02:34,879 --> 00:02:38,879
the season, carrying some units that
may be quite frankly, like he shouldn't

36
00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:42,960
have any business carrying. But like
the defense has been weird all year and

37
00:02:43,439 --> 00:02:47,039
his everyone's wondering why haven't they tried
using him a lot differently this year on

38
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,800
defense, just like that's never been
his strength, and then do you penalize

39
00:02:51,159 --> 00:02:53,599
him for that? I say all
this, and this is what I wanted

40
00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:57,319
to use as the launching more for
the discussion. We can talk about Jokic,

41
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,400
SGA, and Luca, but like
this, I differentiate is my point

42
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:07,360
between All NBA and MVP, because
the value terms in MVP makes me wait

43
00:03:07,879 --> 00:03:10,800
the team impact and the performance overall
more, whereas if you look at Giannis's

44
00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:15,520
numbers, they are just video game
stupid. He is still one of the

45
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,080
best defenders in the NBA, even
though I don't think he's going to make

46
00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,759
an All Defense team this year,
so he was still kind of like a

47
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:27,000
fringe lock to me because I'm just
looking at these individual numbers that he's putting

48
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,159
up and separating it from Okay,
well, the Bucks have been weird,

49
00:03:30,199 --> 00:03:32,280
and maybe he's not having this impact
as much when he's you know, look,

50
00:03:32,439 --> 00:03:36,680
the Bucks are winning the minutes he
plays without Brook and Damian Lillard,

51
00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,680
which is a testament to him,
and so that's part of the calculus.

52
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,360
But when I was trying to think
of, oh, does he need to

53
00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,039
is he still kind of a lock? I kind of got to a point

54
00:03:45,039 --> 00:03:47,080
where I was like, oh,
I don't know if he's a lock.

55
00:03:47,159 --> 00:03:50,400
And he ended up he ended up
making I say all this, he ended

56
00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:52,719
up making both of our first teams. I'll throw it up there. So

57
00:03:52,759 --> 00:03:55,120
he ended up with the four same
guys there. I'm just curious as to

58
00:03:57,039 --> 00:04:00,280
how you feel about that or was
it he just auto inclusion for you?

59
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,800
Well, the reason I framed my
question to you the way I did was

60
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:11,719
because I do think Yoannest to me, felt like less of a lock than

61
00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:15,080
he was when we last talked,
and really, like, you know,

62
00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:18,680
I don't know how long, what
percentage of the season, it has been

63
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:23,399
obvious to me that these four guys
belonged on All NBA First Team. I

64
00:04:23,399 --> 00:04:28,519
still think he belongs, it's just
less certain I think as the bond,

65
00:04:28,759 --> 00:04:34,279
yeah, like as the Bucks continued
to not impress. I also though I

66
00:04:34,319 --> 00:04:38,040
look at MVP and All NBA a
little differently too. I'm sure I've talked

67
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,319
about this where it's like MVP,
it's like the v really the value valuable

68
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,639
component of it really does do a
lot of the lifting. And it's so

69
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,040
it's like you look it on off, you look at all the things we

70
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,079
talked about when we did MVP.
The numbers really matter for All NBA though,

71
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:56,079
And I think this actually weirdly helps
Giannis, who who does have the

72
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,040
crazy numbers. Where it's like I
still this is my justification putting Kauai on

73
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,600
when we did this last time on
first team, it's you kind of just

74
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,480
like, let's if you imagine,
like we say, let's be real though,

75
00:05:09,519 --> 00:05:13,360
like who's actually the best player.
It's it's such like you know,

76
00:05:13,439 --> 00:05:15,360
that's a fuzzy way to do it. It's like not very scientific, but

77
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,240
like Yannis is still that guy to
me. And if you some of the

78
00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:24,000
other names that I would consider,
I would just say, like, if

79
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,000
you tell me I got to pick
a guy to build my team around starting

80
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,879
tomorrow, I'm still taking Yannis over
basically everybody but the three other guys,

81
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,519
and maybe I would take him over
someone like SGA. I don't know,

82
00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:39,680
like you know, so it's again
it's unscientific or less scientific maybe than MVP.

83
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,519
But I think actually framing it that
way for me makes it easier to

84
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,199
keep Jannis in this group, uh
than otherwise. But yeah, like I

85
00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,800
do think I think it's totally reasonable
if you're having like some misgivings about putting

86
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:56,680
him with those first three guys because
the first three guys just have unassailable cases.

87
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,600
I think, like there's no no
rational person is not going to have

88
00:05:59,639 --> 00:06:02,480
those three I don't think uh,
in the you know, on first Yeah,

89
00:06:02,519 --> 00:06:05,079
good luck coming up with I want
to see someone make the case for

90
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,560
one of those three guys not making
it. But what I will say,

91
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,839
since we don't really have anything to
add about them, and we did have

92
00:06:10,879 --> 00:06:14,199
a more in depth discussion about them
with MVP, I do want to note

93
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,560
I I say this every year.
I hate the way the MVP debate is

94
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,240
framed. I probably even hate the
way that I framed it, like during

95
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:24,120
some of our discussions. But there
are people that were it's you know,

96
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,279
fans are gonna fan where they're gonna. I think we had a bunch of

97
00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:29,199
comments that said, putting Luca's in
the top two of m VP and it

98
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,920
isn't too Putting him any lower is
disrespectful and it's like, all right,

99
00:06:31,959 --> 00:06:35,319
so it's disrespecting Luca not voting him
for MVP, or it's what more does

100
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:41,199
Luca have to do to win MVP? Or Luca doesn't have But it's like,

101
00:06:41,959 --> 00:06:45,560
I don't love this the way it's
framed. Where's it's not just about

102
00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,680
Luca, it's Yo kich is out
here doing this other stuff too, And

103
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:54,079
it's so, what the And I'm
not I'm not I'm just using Luca as

104
00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:58,279
an example. I'm not trying to
chop down this. But it's Luca is

105
00:06:58,319 --> 00:07:00,600
scoring more points. I think he
has the advantage, he has the advantage

106
00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:03,480
in assists, but like, do
we not care that Jokic is the better

107
00:07:03,519 --> 00:07:08,120
defender to or that he elevates the
Nuggets offense just as much? And if

108
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,920
you know, I hate the way
it works. There's like a give and

109
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,920
take to it where it's we've even
said, oh, well, look at

110
00:07:13,959 --> 00:07:15,839
Jason Tatum supporting cast and all the
help he has and then I've seen a

111
00:07:15,839 --> 00:07:18,279
lot of the way he's trained for
the Mavericks, so it's like he doesn't

112
00:07:18,319 --> 00:07:23,759
have an all Star teammate. Or
it's that way with Calon Brunson, like,

113
00:07:23,759 --> 00:07:25,759
look, I know Julius Raynel telling
me of the All Star but look

114
00:07:25,759 --> 00:07:28,560
at what he's doing on his own
and it's okay, Well, Jokic techny

115
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,480
doesn't have an All Star teammate.
And then it's well Jamal Murry's at that

116
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,439
level, and so we just keep
moving the goalpost to make the argument for

117
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:40,720
if you've locked in on one person
and are unwilling to consider other entrance to

118
00:07:40,759 --> 00:07:44,480
it. Like the problem with the
MVP discussion, or one of the problems

119
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,319
is it has to be more about
than just oh, look what Luka is

120
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,879
doing. If you pick Luca to
make MVP, I actually think he has

121
00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:55,439
an argument and Ka, you want
to pick any of them, I'm absolutely

122
00:07:55,519 --> 00:07:59,199
fine with it. But it's not
he literally can't do anything more. How

123
00:07:59,319 --> 00:08:03,639
is this like, no, there
are other guys who are part of this,

124
00:08:03,839 --> 00:08:05,199
and it's like, you know,
oh, look at what Luca has

125
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,240
done with this roster. It's okay, Well, Jokic has the best team

126
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,079
in the Western Conference right now,
and technically he doesn't have any All Stars

127
00:08:13,079 --> 00:08:16,759
on his team either, And are
you now going to say that Kyrie erving

128
00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,560
isn't All Star caliber so Luca's doing
it all on his own. It's a

129
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,240
not denigrating Luca's MVP case. Like
I said, any three of these,

130
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,079
any one of these three, I
think if you want to vote for them,

131
00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,120
I think there are cases to be
made. Hey, this is this

132
00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,440
is why I just take umbrage with
the fact that if you lock in on

133
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,720
somebody or you're even a fan of
this team, that player, and that's

134
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,919
who you want to pick, and
you're not willing to consider other arguments are

135
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:46,720
just certain priors And like, maybe
this is hypocritical because we've had jokicic to

136
00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:48,960
top this list for even when it
seemed like it was more of a competition

137
00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:56,120
between him and SGA or but I
just I hate the MVP discussion. I

138
00:08:56,159 --> 00:09:01,279
think, well, I would say
that now this is going to sound like

139
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,720
something an asshole would say, and
like maybe maybe I'm just telling on myself,

140
00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:11,159
but you've lost my attention if your
argument is it's disrespectful to x y

141
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,960
Z, because that's not as serious
you're not having you're not interested in having

142
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,799
a discussion. Like you've set your
you, you've put your anchor down,

143
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,879
and you're now like attacking the logic
that someone like you don't care what the

144
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,159
reasons are. So like, I
don't know, I don't think you need

145
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,240
to let's have a little a little
talk. I don't think you need to

146
00:09:30,279 --> 00:09:33,080
engage with someone that's going to start
the conversation with you have disrespected him,

147
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,360
because like, what the fuck what
are you talking about this? Yeah?

148
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,120
I just read them now, I
won't engage. Yeah, no, yeah,

149
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,240
we've we've set up a nice straw
person here because like you know,

150
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:46,600
this is we've just made someone say
a hypothetically dumb thing and we're we're taking

151
00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:50,159
them down now. But like that, if you want to vote for Luca,

152
00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:52,480
awesome, there's a lot of evidence
that you can use to support your

153
00:09:52,519 --> 00:09:56,759
case for why he's the m v
P. You just have to acknowledge that

154
00:09:56,799 --> 00:10:00,559
there are at least two and maybe
more other guys who's have a arguments that

155
00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,000
are just as good or bad.
Like, yeah, I don't hate the

156
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,679
MVP discussion because I think it can
be had civilly and rationally. I hate

157
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,519
any discussion when it gets stupid like
that, like we're you know, when

158
00:10:09,799 --> 00:10:13,879
when it's motivated by bias or fandom
or whatever, it's like, we're gonna

159
00:10:13,879 --> 00:10:18,399
have a serious discussion. We can
do that, we can compare numbers or

160
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,240
whatever, how whatever your criteria are. But like the disrespectful angle is always

161
00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:26,360
like it's so hollow, like doesn't
mean anything, you know, And I

162
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,879
always even when I'm so reticent now
and this is probably this is a flaw

163
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,720
of Minelet to make clear its I
operate under the assumption that I'm just wrong

164
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,679
all the time, like I don't
have But even when I say, oh,

165
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,240
there are three locks, I always
have to add a caveat for me.

166
00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:41,360
Whereas if you don't, if you
want to say that, I'll listen

167
00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:43,960
to your case. I'm probably gonna
just if you try to make a case

168
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,600
against Sga, Luka or Jokic making
first team all NBA, I will listen

169
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,200
to it. I'm very interested in
that case. I would asciated. I

170
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:58,080
have my rapt attention. But if
you're prepared to make that case, okay.

171
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,639
The fifth one, though, is
interesting. We want the same way

172
00:11:00,639 --> 00:11:03,279
here. Let's show you want to
just put them up, yeah, and

173
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,159
I was actually gonna say, I
think I need so it's it's Jason Tatum

174
00:11:07,159 --> 00:11:09,720
for both of us. And I
was wondering if I could grab the mic

175
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,080
really quick, because I do wonder
if I've galaxy brained this too much.

176
00:11:13,159 --> 00:11:16,960
I had Kawhi last time I had
Kawhi. I've been writing about it for

177
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,600
the longest time. I think Jalen
bruns In has a case here as well.

178
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,200
But when I look at Giannis versus
Tatum, and this is the one

179
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,639
that I was thinking about where I
feel like Giannis might have a flimsier first

180
00:11:26,639 --> 00:11:31,320
team case than Tatum if you really
want to wait the value to their team

181
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,799
as part of this, rather than
skewing towards the individual stuff. Tatum is

182
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:41,759
the leading scorer, leading rebounder,
the second leading assist man for what is

183
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,320
by Miles and Miles and Miles.
The best team in the league is certainly

184
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,080
the best team in the Eastern Conference, and I kind of feel like maybe

185
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,919
I was overthinking it, over gaming
it. And it certainly helps to me

186
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,200
that he's hitting like thirty seven plus
percent of his off the dribble triples since

187
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,960
the All Star breaking, So that
was such a key part of his game,

188
00:12:00,039 --> 00:12:01,919
and it was inefficient for a little
while that I had trouble wrapping my

189
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:07,279
head around it. But I'm sitting
here saying I don't want to penalize guys

190
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,720
or necessarily reward them for the supporting
cast. And I do believe the NBA

191
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,000
is too narrative driven. I think
for all or not too narrative driven.

192
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:18,240
I think the awards are narrative driven, which I'm okay with as long as

193
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,559
you're willing to allow the narrative to
change. It can't be. I locked

194
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,440
in on player X for MVP,
and I'm just gonna figure out ways to

195
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,519
contextualize that and make him MVP all
season. With all NBA it's you know

196
00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:35,200
what, Okay, Tatum has a
better top five supporting cast than pretty much

197
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,200
anyone in the league except for maybe
Yokich. But look at how good Jason

198
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,679
Tatum still is. He's the best
player on the best team. And that's

199
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,600
not solely my case, like I
said, but you look at it and

200
00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:50,000
it's this guy's a really good defender, just as like the way that the

201
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,799
stuff that you can do off the
week side. It's not his fault that

202
00:12:52,879 --> 00:12:54,960
Jalen Brown and Derek White. New
Holiday exists, so he's not gonna take

203
00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:01,440
these primary coverages as much. I
think you can argue, is I hate

204
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,919
doing this, but more limited I
have air quotes anyone listening is more limited

205
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,399
on defense because you can't put him
in that role, and you probably could

206
00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:11,120
with Tatum. It's just with either
of the Well, with Yannis now you

207
00:13:11,159 --> 00:13:13,360
might be more inclined to do so, but with Tatum you don't have to

208
00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:18,399
do that. But I do.
I don't necessarily regret having Kawhi for as

209
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,519
long as I did, and I
do think Jalen Brunton has a case.

210
00:13:20,519 --> 00:13:26,519
But I almost feel like the Jalen
Brunton Kawhi Leonard case is stronger over Yannis

211
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:31,159
at this point than it is for
Tatum. Interesting. I still I still

212
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,399
view Janis if we were tiering this, I still think there's a first tier

213
00:13:35,399 --> 00:13:39,240
of four guys, or maybe I
would probably put Jokicchen the tier by himself

214
00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:43,519
and then Sga Luka. Janis are
no disrespectful to Luca. I know,

215
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:48,759
apologies for the disrespect, But then
I think I think there's a really strong

216
00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:52,279
case that you could put Tatum,
Kawhi and Brunson in a tier here together,

217
00:13:52,879 --> 00:13:56,720
and like I really got no problem, Like Brunson was the guy that

218
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,679
I had Kawhi there too for a
long time, and I still think I

219
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,759
think Kawhi is a better player than
Jason Tatum. Like in terms of if

220
00:14:05,799 --> 00:14:07,480
you're the whole, like starting a
team tomorrow, who and you're trying to

221
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,159
win a championship, who would rather
have? I think I probably take Kawhi

222
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,039
injury risk and all, just because
I think his highest level, which he

223
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,159
hit for a chunk of this year, is just higher than Tatum can reach.

224
00:14:18,919 --> 00:14:22,480
And I think Brunson in a lot
of ways, you could definitely say

225
00:14:22,519 --> 00:14:26,600
like his season has been more impressive
than Tatum's just because of what he's had

226
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,039
to do and how productive he's been
in those circumstances. This is where also

227
00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:33,039
like I'll look, we both have
Tatum, but I think the Celtics are

228
00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:35,840
plus ten per one hundred with Tatum
on the bench, which is just like

229
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,519
bonkers. But again that's not a
knock on him, It's just a testament

230
00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:43,399
to the quality of talent around him. They're still they're awesome. They're equally

231
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:48,240
awesome with him. I think ultimately, I went with Tatum because you know,

232
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:54,919
Kawhi has had an uneven season,
he's hurt again, but was awesome

233
00:14:54,919 --> 00:14:58,080
at the peak of it. Brunson
I just don't think is quite at like

234
00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:01,759
Tatum's level. I don't. Again, this is where we get into the

235
00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:05,120
hazy like who's actually better. Tatum
just felt like the safest pick. I

236
00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:09,159
don't know. That's why I,
you know, vacillated so much with it,

237
00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:13,480
and and could just you could if
you had a really strong argument like

238
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:18,639
tonight right now for Kawhi or like
or Brunson, I could so easily be

239
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,879
talked into it because I think those
three guys, Tatum, Brunson, and

240
00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:24,840
Kawhi are like I cannot argue with
you if you have one of them on

241
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,480
and the other two off at this
point. The the other thing I'll kind

242
00:15:30,519 --> 00:15:31,679
of note about Tatum, so you
mentioned like, well, look at how

243
00:15:31,679 --> 00:15:35,159
good they are with him off the
floor, and I think that's where it

244
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,480
comes back to the MVP discussion more
than all NBA. But do you know,

245
00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:43,120
so he's played about a thousand possessions
without Jaylen Brown, Derek White and

246
00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:48,159
Christops Porzengis. The Celtics are plus
seventeen point two. Yeah, So although

247
00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:52,320
that cast the matter as part of
this two of you who wanted to make

248
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,720
his MVP case, my differentiation just
might be imperfect. We both put him

249
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,559
on first team, and so it's
like, that's at the end of the

250
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,480
day, what it is. And
I don't think he's undeserving. It's just

251
00:16:02,519 --> 00:16:04,120
it's a matter of splitting hairs.
It comes down to preferences, and I

252
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,000
think the bigger thing is how this
stuff is interpreted, and it's just I'm

253
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,399
so you mentioned it with Jalen Brunton, you talked about with him, I

254
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,720
am more inclined to and did reward
him more in the MVP debate, where

255
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:18,919
you know, if we did our
MVP latters right now, there's a chance

256
00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:22,279
I might have him above Giannis and
put him into that fourth spot. But

257
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,320
I had him fifth and Tatum is
on my first team like that. So

258
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,519
that's just the differentiation there for me. Yeah, no, it's so that

259
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,759
was a tough one. I really
you struggled similarly with it was second team.

260
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,360
I had. I end up having
five locks for me for second team.

261
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,919
Second team was the easiest team for
me to build. Well, I

262
00:16:41,919 --> 00:16:45,600
had four and then my fifth spot. I still don't feel great about.

263
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,080
I actually like and and well we
should just go to it. So we

264
00:16:48,159 --> 00:16:53,159
both have Kawhi. That was a
no brainer. Well, so I'll unveil

265
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,960
the I'll unveil the top three.
I think we might have the same top

266
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:02,200
four. But Kawhi, Leonard,
Kevin Durant, and Jalen Brunson. Yeah,

267
00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:04,559
I mean those were those were easy. I mean Kawhi and Brunson by

268
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,480
you know, we just spent time
talking about like easily could have been first

269
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:12,759
team. Uh. We both also
had Lebron and I just like the statistical

270
00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:15,480
cases. They're like the eye test, like he just I don't know,

271
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,359
he's a second teamer. He did
not give him any real serious consideration for

272
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,920
first team though, did you No. But I will say there are people

273
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,200
that are know what I'm gonna unveil
my final too, because I have Anthony

274
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:33,119
Davis on second team as well,
and I have seen people like reference,

275
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,200
not mine specifically, but how the
Lakers have two All NBA players when they're

276
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,880
like, look how bad they're doing. There're ten games over five hundred.

277
00:17:41,079 --> 00:17:45,519
That's like the West is just so
brutal, and the fact that these are

278
00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:49,359
megastars playing megastar basketball. That's what
all NBA is about. Now, if

279
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:55,839
you want to know, say that
adversely impacts their MVP case the way that

280
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,039
they're trailing these other teams, I'll
absolutely agree with you on that. But

281
00:17:59,079 --> 00:18:03,319
for all NBA purpose says, I
just look at Lebron and I don't view

282
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,799
this. I didn't reward him in
the slightest because he's old. So I

283
00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:11,359
want to make that clear. Of
course, this dude is. I mean,

284
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,480
he is old. I'm relative to
other NBA players, but like he's

285
00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:19,480
shooting fifty eight plus percent on twos, a career high forty one plus percent

286
00:18:19,519 --> 00:18:23,759
on threes, while averaging over twenty
five points and eight assists per game.

287
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:30,319
There is nobody on record has ever
hit those benchmarks for an entire season.

288
00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:33,640
And even if you lower the baseline
to just say average twenty five points at

289
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,359
least eight assists, to forty percent
from three and fifty five percent from two,

290
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,440
Lebron is still just standing alone right
there. And so he was an

291
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,759
easy inclusion for me. And then
Anthony Davis. The numbers are finally starting

292
00:18:45,759 --> 00:18:48,519
to back this up. The Lakers
are better defensively with Anthony Davis on the

293
00:18:48,519 --> 00:18:52,039
court. Whenever I watch him play, I don't understand how they're not the

294
00:18:52,079 --> 00:18:56,039
best defensive team in the league basically
because of just all the things he's able

295
00:18:56,039 --> 00:19:00,680
to do. I've said it before, I'll say it again. I think

296
00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:04,400
in terms of the sheer amount of
responsibility that he bears, only bam Ada

297
00:19:04,759 --> 00:19:08,039
Bio rivals it when you're at all
the different things he needs, not can

298
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:12,279
do, but needs to do on
a possession by possession basis, and so

299
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,880
then it just made this so easy, especially like eighties, offense been really

300
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,160
good this year. He's starting to
hit jumpers again. We'll see if that

301
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,920
lasts. But like the play finishing
has been good, his passing is has

302
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,799
come up from the I mean,
this might be the best passing season of

303
00:19:25,839 --> 00:19:29,160
his career. Quite frankly, I
haven't dug deep enough into that. Then,

304
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,880
just very quickly on Jalen Brunson,
I don't even know, like even

305
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,599
independent of well is he being rewarded
because like the Knicks don't have another shot

306
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,599
creator without Julius Randall on the lineup, and even when they have Julius Randall,

307
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,400
it's kind of an imperfect shot creator. Yeah, no, shit,

308
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:47,960
like that's part of it. Anyone
who listened to the Knicks Film School podcast

309
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,759
alz On knows this that, or
if you watch the Knicks broadcast that night,

310
00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:53,920
because they apparently relate it, knows
this that Michael Jordan is the only

311
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:59,160
other player to have a season in
which he posted usage and assists rates north

312
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,599
of thirty with a turnover rate below
ten. That is bonkers to shoulder that

313
00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:08,640
usage in imperfect spacing. Looking at
Brunton specifically the Knicks, they're shooting a

314
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,400
lot of threes now, but like
defenses are still king in on you,

315
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,160
is what I mean when I'm talking
about imperfect spacing, and just you could

316
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,839
say, oh, well, is
he really as good as a He's not

317
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,519
as good as a passer as Luca
or Lebron. I don't fucking care.

318
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,160
He's not turning the ball over and
he's one of the highest suston players in

319
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,880
the league right now. Yeah he
I just like you said, like I

320
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,160
forget how you phrased it, but
is like, is he benefiting somehow from

321
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,039
the Knicks needing him to do this? Like I feel like he's being punished,

322
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,200
Like he's he's like succeeding despite this, despite the situation, like it's

323
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:44,000
incredible that he's done what he's done
with in these circumstances, like you lose

324
00:20:44,039 --> 00:20:47,119
your whole front court, you didn't
have a lot of shot creation like to

325
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,440
begin with, you know when when
all those guys were healthy. So it

326
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,359
just like I don't know if there
was like an overcoming the circumstances award,

327
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,319
Like he's he wins it this year
because he's been so productive and like efficient

328
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,839
and added layers to his game with
the off dribble, three points, all

329
00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:04,279
this stuff we've talked about. Yeah, like he's got he's so much like

330
00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:07,920
he's way closer to making first team
than slipping the third team. For me,

331
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,440
it's it's like, yeah, that's
a great way to put it way

332
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:17,000
closer. So my my fifth guy, I did agonize over Anthony Davis.

333
00:21:17,519 --> 00:21:23,039
Rudy Gobeer got it though I ultimately
went with Devin Booker kind of similar arguments

334
00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:26,400
as you were in a different way
as you were laying out for Davis,

335
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,279
like he's responsible for so much defensively. Booker was tasked with being the point

336
00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:34,039
guard this year. He's averaging twenty
seven and seven. The seven assists or

337
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,680
career high like he's been up in
the sixes before, you know, half

338
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,640
a decade ago, but those were
with fairly high turnover rates, like he

339
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,720
was averaging when he averaged six point
eight assists in eighteen nineteen, turning it

340
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,240
over over four times a game,
almost four the next year when he averaged

341
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,759
six and a half assists. So
this year it's seven assists and two point

342
00:21:51,759 --> 00:21:55,079
six turnovers. He's cut his turnovers
from last year. This is the lowest

343
00:21:55,079 --> 00:21:57,759
they've been with any kind of heavy
distribution role he's ever had. I know

344
00:21:57,839 --> 00:22:02,599
that, Like I've slipped in and
out of this, You've been really steadfast

345
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:03,559
of like the Sons that don't need
a point guard, they have one.

346
00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:07,079
Devin Booker is awesome at this.
I've come around to that, and I

347
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,759
just think, I think the degree
of difficulty is there for him, Like

348
00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:15,359
he's shouldering a role that like is
really not ultimately like what you would want

349
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,119
him to play in ideal circumstances,
but he's doing really well at it.

350
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,279
I think some of the same like
you're gonna put two Lakers on an All

351
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,960
NBA team applies to like you're gonna
put two Sons on because they've had you

352
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,039
know, it's just the other night, you know. Obviously the down thirty

353
00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:37,640
five before was just like for representing
their entire offense. Good for him,

354
00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:41,880
so but I still I just think, I mean, it was a d

355
00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:45,400
or Devin Booker. I went with
Booker eighties obviously making my third team.

356
00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:48,720
We could we can go there,
unless you did you think about Booker at

357
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,519
all, because I know, I
feel like generally you've been a little higher

358
00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:53,400
on Booker than me. But it's
not like, you know, not way

359
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,200
out of whack. No, No, you disrespect him, and I give

360
00:22:56,279 --> 00:23:03,480
him due credit well respecting him now. So I do have him on my

361
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:07,400
I don't know which spot I have
him. I don't remember where I listed

362
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,960
him. I don't have these in
any particular order, but I'm trying to

363
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,279
find him so I can just screen
uh oh in your second third team spot,

364
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,440
for whatever that's worth. Yeah,
so I have him on my third

365
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,440
team spot. And he was the
one of the other two names that I

366
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,000
strongly considered for one of the second
team slots, and his I don't The

367
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:30,519
only thing I would just add is
what I struggled with and I will wait

368
00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:34,680
this more In all MBI not so
much with third team, which is why

369
00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:38,200
where I put him, He's not
really He's barely in the top fiftieth total

370
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,559
minutes played. He just qualified for
the sixty five game minimum the other night.

371
00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:45,400
That actor in a little bit when
I was looking at him versus ad

372
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,799
because and even the Kawhi stuff and
kd and Brunson, that's part of it.

373
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:52,960
The minutes played here, Kevin durant'z
like seventh and total minutes played this

374
00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:56,480
year, that's wild. Anthony Davis
hasn't played this much in forever, Kauai

375
00:23:56,519 --> 00:24:00,000
hasn't played this much since twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, Like, he's just

376
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,079
over two thousand minutes comfortably with Devin
Booker, I'm fine with you putting him

377
00:24:03,079 --> 00:24:07,480
on second team because of how impactful
he is. Yes, the Suns are

378
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:11,039
kind of a mess in certain stretches, but like the two things that stood

379
00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:15,319
out to me is so there's the
raw statistics, which is I found this

380
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,240
wild, not because Devin Booker was
involved, but because of the one of

381
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,480
the other names. The only other
players averaging more than twenty seven points with

382
00:24:22,519 --> 00:24:26,160
an assist rate above thirty Luca and
Jalen Brunson. And then there are two

383
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,400
more aside from Booker, Booker's here
that I don't think you would have guessed

384
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,759
because I wouldn't have guessed Yannis an
Embeid. I might have gotten Embiid,

385
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:37,279
but Yiannis and Embiid and NB didn't
play in a ton of games, YadA,

386
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,759
YadA, YadA. So I thought
that was that's a great company to

387
00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:44,920
be in. All those other guys
are all NBA players except for Embiid because

388
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,559
of the games where the game's minimum. The other thing is the Suns when

389
00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:53,759
he plays without Bill and Kevin Durant
are plus nine point two points per one

390
00:24:53,799 --> 00:24:57,440
hundred possessions. He is not the
offensive problem. He's probably been part of

391
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,519
it at points, and Ross is
imperfect like this is someone who very much,

392
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,640
I honestly think, even though I
have Kevin Durant on second team,

393
00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:11,200
I think Devin Booker is more important
and draws more of Phoenix's success in so

394
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:14,720
far as you consider what they've done
this any success this season. More than

395
00:25:14,839 --> 00:25:18,440
so. If this was an MVP
ranking, I would have Devin Booker above

396
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,240
Kevin Grant. Interesting, Yeah,
I could, I could. I can

397
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:25,799
get behind that. I did.
I did have Davis Anthony Davis obviously was

398
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:27,920
my if I were ranking, in
which I'm not like he was when he

399
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,240
didn't make second team. He's like, I got his third team, get

400
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,039
his name down immediately. Oh no, he's at the bottom. So I

401
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:37,559
think that means that you've almost put
him on board. I disrespected him.

402
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:41,720
We have Let's see, we have
two other in common picks for the third

403
00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:45,119
team. Maybe we should just put
those up and focus more on the ones

404
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,640
that we differed on, which are
so we only have two? Really?

405
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,680
Oh yeah, Anthony Edwards and Steph
Curry are in common third teamers, So

406
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,319
I'll throw those up on I mean, the the Anthy Edwards one is.

407
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,599
And I'll over simplify this. The
Minnesota Timberwolves cannot not have an all NBA

408
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,400
player on their roster. It can't. And things that stood out. He

409
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,240
has improved as a passer. He
hits that all defense level both on and

410
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,079
away from the ball. I would
say more frequently. And I think he

411
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:21,160
and Nikaile Alexander Walker and Rudy Gobert
and nas Red not have covered up,

412
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,599
but they've almost eclipsed the fact that, Okay, Jade McDaniels might still be

413
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,079
your best perimeter defender. But I
really don't think Jade McDaniels has been as

414
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,519
good let alone on offense but on
defense this year as he has been in

415
00:26:30,599 --> 00:26:33,960
years past. I don't know what's
going on there. Anthony Edwards has helped

416
00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:37,880
kind of eclipse that. The only
part of his game I'd say he hasn't

417
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,359
improved is the off the dribble shooting
still feels weird as a driver though,

418
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,279
the fact that he can just power
through whatever type of space they have,

419
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,319
and the fact that he is You
take Mike Conley off the floor, you

420
00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:52,240
take Karl Anthony Towns off the floor, and Minnesota's offense has had weirdness.

421
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,400
It's still elite. During those anti
Edwards minutes, Yeah, I just think,

422
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,400
well, I was listening to the
thinking basketball podcasts were doing there,

423
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,240
like, you know, all different
types of defensive awards, and the point

424
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,519
that Ben Taylor made, which I
think is really like goes to what you're

425
00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:15,119
saying is he doesn't always do it. But when Edwards is super engaged late

426
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,680
in a game on the ball,
he might be the best point of attack

427
00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:19,720
defender in the world. Like he
just when he when he's got the switch

428
00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:22,839
flipped he's just you're not going through
him, You're not going around him.

429
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,799
Like that's it. He is.
He is in front of you the whole

430
00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:30,680
time. You cannot athletically like beat
this guy. I think that leaves now

431
00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:34,640
that's awesome and like it goes to
his case. But also like you you

432
00:27:34,759 --> 00:27:37,759
still sometimes maybe maybe this is just
me, but do you get the sense

433
00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:41,720
sometimes it like Edwards is almost like
leaving money on the table by not just

434
00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:45,559
channeling that one hundred percent of the
time, and that goes into some of

435
00:27:45,599 --> 00:27:48,920
his shot selection. That gets a
little you know, blase sometimes. But

436
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,079
the offense, it does feel like
he can bail out defenses, yes,

437
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,759
that you're talking about. When you
look at all he's responsible for on the

438
00:27:59,799 --> 00:28:03,759
offensive end, I kind of understand
how you can't bring it consistently or as

439
00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:07,200
consistently on defense. And we even
lets use Kuhi as an example. You've

440
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:11,599
kind of well you haven't kind of
you diminished his offensive creation responsibilities this year

441
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,640
and what happened this is probably I
know what part of it is he played,

442
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,559
but this is the best defensive season
I think Kawhi is probably had as

443
00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:22,279
a Clipper. Yeah maybe so so
I kind of wonder put the offense stuff.

444
00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:25,680
For sure. It feels like the
leaving money on the table is a

445
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,599
good way to phrase it, where
he can bail out offenses sometimes, this

446
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,880
Steph inclusion it ended up so I
had him. It came down to when

447
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,640
I was doing my third team.
Uh there were three players, well there

448
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,680
were really there was like four or
five players I considered for like the quote

449
00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,680
unquote like final like to my final
two spots. I had book and Anthony

450
00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:49,960
Edwards were just stone cold locks for
me. I think I had one.

451
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:52,799
Uh, well, I didn't have
one of those were my These were my

452
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,599
three locks. No, it was
Booking Ant were my locks with Steph.

453
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,359
I think you have to also mention
and I kind of you had two of

454
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:03,240
these, So do you want to
reveal your other two? Because I did

455
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:06,680
consider the other two you have.
Yeah, I had Tyre's Halliburton and I

456
00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:11,880
had Paul George as my last two
All NBA third teamers. So I struggled

457
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,759
with Haliburton. He by the way, he looked like a top five MVP

458
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,960
ballot lock just a few months ago. But we are officially at the point

459
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:26,720
where his post injury sample is now
larger than his pre injury sample and the

460
00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:29,839
numbers just haven't picked up enough.
But then I grap up with the fact

461
00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:32,400
of, well, it's not just
him trying to play through injury. He's

462
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,400
had to move off the ball more
since the Siakam trade and also the Heel

463
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,480
trade impacted that does he deserve credit
for it? His season long numbers are

464
00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:42,880
right there, and it ultimately came
down to him or Steph. That's why

465
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:48,079
I was stumbling over my words for
my final spot. I look at Steph

466
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,720
and he now has the higher true
shooting percentage. He is scoring more Haliburton

467
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:57,039
hasn't beat and assists. Haliburton is
responsible for creating more of his own offense

468
00:29:57,079 --> 00:30:02,559
than Steph is. But when you
look at the work Steph has to go

469
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:04,920
through just to get the ball because
of what that does to defense, is

470
00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:10,680
that has Aliburton beat and that swayed
it for me a coupled with he played

471
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,759
some more minutes, and I think
he's been the steadier all NBA type of

472
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:19,400
talent this year. And I recognize
all of that is because the factors beyond

473
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,400
Haliburton's control. That's also for me. I look at it as if you

474
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,920
put halle On here. That's totally
fine, but that's also the breaks.

475
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,920
Like I think I'm in a position
where I can make that decision and say

476
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,319
this because that's just how this works
when we're talking about the all the all

477
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,519
NBA stuff. Yeah, he wasn't
an easy inclusion for me. I would

478
00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:41,359
say that Steph was much easier.
And actually I think Paul George might have

479
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,119
been easier just because, like Paul
George might be having one of the most

480
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,119
underappreciated just I mean, it's the
story of his career, right, he's

481
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:52,640
the best like one B that you're
ever gonna find. But like his three

482
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,839
point shootings up over forty percent,
he's getting you twenty two and like five

483
00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:59,759
and five is still awesome off the
ball as a defender, just like Paul

484
00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:03,079
George takes nothing. You know,
if Fanthony Edwards leaves some money on the

485
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,599
table, Paul George takes nothing off
the table. He's just he's good at

486
00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:10,240
everything. Maybe he's not great at
any one thing, but like he's a

487
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:14,119
B plus to a minus just across
the board, and like all basketball skills,

488
00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:18,279
and he was healthy enough this year, just barely. But like I

489
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,400
just I think Paul George is one
of the fifteen best players in the league

490
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,799
this year. Like that doesn't feel
like it needs to be a controversial statement.

491
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,279
No, and I did consider him, It just it felt like and

492
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,519
because he's not responsible for as much
of the Clippers' offensive livelihood, I struggled

493
00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:37,640
with that. But I struggled more
so it feels like he's not where like

494
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,799
Lo looko quid defensively this year.
I don't know that Paul George has been

495
00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:45,720
on the same his usual level.
And when you look at the Clippers defense

496
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:51,440
in in some it kind of supports
that as well. So that's just again

497
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:53,240
it was splitting hairs. But that's
why I aldly left him off. I'm

498
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,319
with you in the sense that we'll
have honorable mentions. But he made my

499
00:31:56,359 --> 00:32:00,680
fourth team. I had am on
for what Halle and George or one of

500
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,039
the first names I put on my
fourth team. I did have two names

501
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,640
that you did not, So I
had domas a bonus on here. And

502
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,680
so this is another example where I
feel like, if you want to say,

503
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,359
you think, let's just Paul George
is better in a vacuum than domas

504
00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:19,640
a bonus, you'd rather have Paul
George for the playoffs. That's fine.

505
00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:24,759
This is a regular season individual honor
for me and the only other player in

506
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,319
NBA history. It averages many points, rebounds, and assists for an entire

507
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:32,359
season, as domont to Sibonis is
Will Chamberlain. And if you're gonna put

508
00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:36,680
yourself in Wild's company, company while
playing the second most minutes of anyone in

509
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,640
the entire NBA. Yeah, I
do agree with and I do. I

510
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,400
know some Kings fans do not agree
with this, and they're pretty I don't

511
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:45,839
use the word sensitive that feels overly
critical, but they take issue with it.

512
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,599
Is No, I don't think domas
a bonus is the type of primary

513
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,759
option that I think is easier to
shut down because he doesn't generate his own

514
00:32:53,799 --> 00:32:59,119
shot in the ways that other guys
can. That is absolutely, It's not

515
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,880
even a flaw, but it's it's
a short andcoming relative to other guys.

516
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,119
That to me is more of an
MVP thing. Though if you were like,

517
00:33:06,119 --> 00:33:08,200
why isn't he top ten on your
MVP ballot or something, I'm looking

518
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:13,720
at the numbers, the availability their
GAGA quite frankly, and so I I

519
00:33:13,839 --> 00:33:16,200
ended up he I just I looked
at those he gets in that's I think

520
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,359
that's what I wrote too. I
was like, I wrote, the will

521
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,519
thing is that he gets in end
of story, we can move on.

522
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:25,799
Yeah, I just I've said enough
things to upset people about Sabonis. I

523
00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:30,480
would just the only pushback I would
have is that I think you're I think

524
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:36,839
we share the perception that like,
if he's your best player, you're you're

525
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,960
You're not You're in a little bit
of trouble, like in terms of trying

526
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,839
to compete with other teams who have
these other guys that we've listed as their

527
00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:47,599
best players or second best players.
The Kings. I believe this still to

528
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,880
be the case. I know for
sure when Fox plays without Sabonis, the

529
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,720
Kings are good. When Sabonus plays
without Fox, they get steamrolled. And

530
00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:00,559
in general, I'm fairly sure that
Sabonis is on court. Net rating is

531
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:06,279
negative. Now there's noise, but
the sample is huge, as you mentioned,

532
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:09,760
I just I can't. It's so
hard to dismiss the counting stats though,

533
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:15,039
and like what he does functionally in
that offense, so I as like

534
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,440
on low volume like that, I
would know the guards him out there.

535
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,039
Still, Like I I I take
your point. I think it's defensible.

536
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:28,840
Like I'm not going to fight you
on it. I just I just think,

537
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,840
like the numbers are so crazy that
that like and if you do watch

538
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,239
the Kings, like he is the
hub, like he is the guy that

539
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,519
makes that offense function. It's it's
totally defensible. I just I think the

540
00:34:40,599 --> 00:34:45,880
numbers overstate his impact on winning and
maybe that's like not the most important weirdly

541
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,360
not the most important thing for all
NBA. I don't know everybody knows where

542
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,719
I stand on him. Who's your
who's your fifth, uh? Your fifth

543
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:58,639
third teamer here? So I went
with Kalen Brown, and I think he's

544
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,840
kind of had not He's not underrated, but under the radar season this is

545
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,679
not Oh, the Lakers and Sons
got to all NBA players. Of course,

546
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:07,440
the Celtics, the best team in
the NBA, had had to get

547
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,159
it. He has. He didn't
start off the season too well, but

548
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:15,800
like basically for the last sixty something
games, he's been really good from three,

549
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,360
his counters inside the arc have never
been better. The passing shortcoming is

550
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,880
still there. But I also think
that we don't appreciate his defense enough because

551
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,920
it kind of gets lost and it's
the Tatum stuff where it's well, there's

552
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,800
also Tatum and Derek White and Drew
Holliday and even christopsin al Horford there.

553
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:32,639
His defense has been like he's I
think, aside from Drew Holliday, he's

554
00:35:32,679 --> 00:35:37,760
actually been the player on the Celtics
who has spent the most total time against

555
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,280
the other team's top option. But
what really sold it for me is that

556
00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:46,039
he is more of a self sustaining
offensive player than people credit him for.

557
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:51,320
And you almost I find it odd
and I'm guilty of this too, that

558
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,480
we don't talk about that more,
because when you look like one of the

559
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,760
Celtics weakness is on offense, is
just like the playmaking hierarchy is weird.

560
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,679
Derek White and Jason Tatum him as
your primary passers are like, that's just

561
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,079
a it's not a bad place to
be. Look, the Celtics have the

562
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:07,079
best record in the league, but
it can get awkward at points during crunch

563
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:09,960
time. But Jalen Brown with the
spins and the fades, and he has

564
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,159
the step back, the ability to
get all the way to the bucket like

565
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,760
at like having them mid range stuff, being able to work off the catch,

566
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,119
but hitting the pull up three.
I just feel like his offensive arsenal

567
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,920
is so deep and I read,
Look, the passing stuff is still it's

568
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,280
a concern. You could talk,
you could point the things that he's done

569
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,760
that he's got better at. It's
it's still a concern. But he's just

570
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:36,079
been really fucking good this year.
And I like just the whole after again,

571
00:36:36,159 --> 00:36:38,159
after Aunt and Devin Booker, this
was just such a messive Conclint I

572
00:36:38,199 --> 00:36:42,639
talked about I thought about Wemby a
little bit. I thought about Tyres Maxie,

573
00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:45,199
I've already mentioned Paul George Haliburt,
and so it's just there's a mess

574
00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:50,920
of names that could go here.
I actually think this season, more than

575
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,079
last season when he made All NBA, that he's been one of the fifteen

576
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:57,480
best players in the league. Yeah, I think that's totally fair. I

577
00:36:57,599 --> 00:37:01,239
definitely on my honorable mention. I
initially had just like, pick a Celtic

578
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,400
if you want to. If it
wanted to be Derek White, cool,

579
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,159
if it's Jalen Brown, great,
porzingis I think fell short, I don't.

580
00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:13,039
I think he's ineligible. Yeah,
if anyone cares very quickly, So

581
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,880
I had these are the names that
I said, I think I would have

582
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,119
considered if they met the eligibility.
There's a big there's a big one too,

583
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:22,639
Yeah, there's and they're varying degrees. This is alphabetically Desmond Main,

584
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:27,599
Scottie Barnes, Jimmy Butler, Joel
Embiid, Brandon Ingram is not there yet,

585
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:30,440
but I don't think he's coming back
until Sunday, which I think means

586
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:31,320
he will miss it. But it
doesn't matter. He wouldn't have made it

587
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:36,119
anyway. Kyrie, Larry Market and
Donovan Mitchell is a big one. Him

588
00:37:36,119 --> 00:37:38,159
and Embiid were the biggest ones to
me, although I guess the way he's

589
00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:42,400
played since coming back. But then
Jamal Murray, Chris Stops, Karl,

590
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,920
Anthony Towns and Tree Young. Yeah, pretty good. You put it together

591
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,000
A pretty solid five out of that
group, there's at least a handful.

592
00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:51,800
Certainly Embiid would have been well,
I mean, Embiid would have simplified this

593
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,199
whole thing. He would have just
been a first teamer, and then we

594
00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:59,199
wouldn't have had him and haw over
Tatum versus Brunson versus Kawhi versus whatever.

595
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:00,719
Do you want to know what my
fourth team would have been, because I

596
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:06,280
had to write about it. Yes, So it was Tyres Alberton, Paul

597
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,320
George, Victor webin Yama, which
is just we're gonna talk about him,

598
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,559
so I'll move on. But he
he absolutely, to me, is a

599
00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:16,639
top twenty player right now. I
have Tyre's Maxie in there. I don't

600
00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:22,519
know if that's spicy. And then
j Dubb Yeah on my fourth team.

601
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,880
Yeah. Did he get any consideration
from you throughout this entire process? Did?

602
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,280
Did Jadab? Yeah? Yeah?
I put together a fourth team too

603
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,039
because I wanted to be as cool
as you, so I had I'm trying

604
00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:36,360
to so I had Jaylen Brown on
that. That was my pick of Celtic.

605
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,800
I ended up with Jalen Brown there
in honorable mention. Jadab obviously is

606
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,119
also there. Uh wembin Yama is
also there, but I had I had

607
00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:46,320
Autobio and Gobert out of Bio is
a good one. I just think,

608
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,960
like you remember when it used to
be like an okay thing to say,

609
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,280
uh, defense is half the game. So obviously the best defensive player is

610
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,440
as valuable as you know, Lebron
or whatever. That's not really true,

611
00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:06,119
Like you can a replacement level center
is is like easier to find than a

612
00:39:06,119 --> 00:39:09,239
replacement level like first option shot creator. That's just the way the NBA works.

613
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,320
But Rudy Gobert was the best defensive
player in the league this year,

614
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:16,000
and like he can be on the
fourth team for me, Like there's enough

615
00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:20,559
value in that that he can make
my fourth team. Similar with with Autobio,

616
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:22,800
because he provides so much more offense
than Gobert does in addition to like

617
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,880
I think I have him in the
top three or four for defensive player of

618
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,559
the year. So I just can't
get there with his offense where yeah,

619
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:32,880
you can say that he's not detrimental
to the offense, but I don't see

620
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:37,280
that's the best material. I don't
see enough material ways that he elevates your

621
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,800
offense. Sure, yeah, that's
why he has to be the best defensive

622
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,760
player in the league to get fourth
team considered. I think you viewed it

623
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,519
if that was your case. Where
Rudy Gobert is the runaway defensive player of

624
00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:51,760
the year in a season where Bam, Anthony Davis, and Victor Webbin Yama

625
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,360
have all just been incredible. I'm
just I'm talking about big specifically, like

626
00:39:54,400 --> 00:40:00,000
Jalen Sex, dark White, whoever
if you were saying he's on my third

627
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:00,880
because of that, I would have
been like, yeah, okay, that's

628
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,719
fine with me. Yeah, I
couldn't go that. There's just like it's

629
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,199
so hard to put him in,
like you're really gonna put him in there.

630
00:40:07,199 --> 00:40:09,519
Over for me, it'd be like, I guess you probably Haliburton is

631
00:40:09,519 --> 00:40:13,239
the guy you'd kick off if you're
gonna get crazy like that, But there

632
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,760
might be other guys i'd consider before
Gobert if I were knocking Haliburton off,

633
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,599
but like, you're not taking I'm
not taking Steph off. I'm not taking

634
00:40:21,639 --> 00:40:23,760
Anthony Davis off my third. You
know, like that it got too too

635
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:30,599
tight there. This is totally unrelated
to do think Haliburton makes all NBA.

636
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:35,079
I know you picked him, but
do you think he I kind of feel

637
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:39,480
like he's going to just I won't
call it like Shenanigans, but it's when

638
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:44,360
there's money at stake. Yeah.
I feel like there's kind of an obligation

639
00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:50,000
from voters who have the official votes, which is it's an uncomfortable position to

640
00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:52,039
be in, but if you agree
to have your vote. Although Steve and

641
00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:55,119
A Smith I think has a vote
and he thought Quentin Grimes was still on

642
00:40:55,119 --> 00:41:01,079
the Knicks when he was talking the
other night, So I think I think

643
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:06,880
he will. I'm with you.
I think it's just because voters. It's

644
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,719
it's an interesting thought experiment now,
because voters are like, you're you are

645
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,840
in a position of giving someone fifty
million dollars or denying them fifty million dollars.

646
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,079
Yeah, like, don't be a
dick, like just just do it.

647
00:41:20,119 --> 00:41:22,719
Like I think, I think there's
gonna be a lot of enough voters

648
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,519
that look at it that way,
and there'll be some like me that'll just

649
00:41:24,559 --> 00:41:28,079
say, like, yeah, I
think I think he did enough in the

650
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:30,400
beginning of the year, and he's
been a little better lately to where I

651
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,199
didn't really make my Haliburton case.
I guess like he's just as a driver

652
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,639
of offense, like when he's when
he was right, there's a reason he

653
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,920
was like fifth in MVP voting,
like informally you know, at the time.

654
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,559
So like, I think I think
even a diminished person player, he

655
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,800
never got hurt. Yeah, that's
because especially because we talked about I was

656
00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:55,159
lamenting I like regret not picking j
dub to win Most Improved Players. I

657
00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:58,880
just called him a top twenty NBA
player or at least fringe there. And

658
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,239
it's so he went runner up of
Rookie of the Year where maybe he was

659
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,320
top fifty to making the jump into
the All NBA discussion. That doesn't count.

660
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:07,599
I just I would pick Scott my
two top picks more ineligible, Scotty

661
00:42:07,639 --> 00:42:12,360
Barnes and Jalen Johnson. Like Tyre's
Alburn is another one where it's if he

662
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,639
never gets injured. If those two
had remained in eligible, I might have

663
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:17,880
just gone with that version of Tyree's
Albert. Yeah, that's interesting. I

664
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,800
mean, like he he like took
himself out of Most Improved because he just

665
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:29,800
almost like he just transcended that award
and was in consideration for a much bigger

666
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,840
one, and it's like, well
he's gonna get he's gonna get MVP consideration.

667
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,599
We don't even think about him,
and he kind of fell out of

668
00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:37,079
the Most Improved discussion. I think
that's right. He had a real case.

669
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,039
Where do you want to go to
next? We want to do all

670
00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:44,519
rookie next, right, Yeah,
let's do all rookie. Uh. This

671
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,159
was I mean, this was I
mean, I don't want to say it

672
00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:50,400
was easy, but I think it
was. It was way easier than all

673
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,639
NBA. I'll play that. Let's
see. I don't know how much overlap

674
00:42:53,679 --> 00:42:55,880
we had. Yeah, we had
a fair amount overlap, So I think

675
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,920
we should start. We could start
pretty easily with I think we had this

676
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:06,239
same three like guys on the which
are just I would say inarguable in my

677
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,079
opinion. I guess there you could
make. I'd be curious which players people

678
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:14,119
would vote against when it comes to
Wemby, Brandon Miller, and Chet Holmgren.

679
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,679
Just I guess Miller's spot on the
first team is the shakiest of the

680
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:21,239
bunch. But I don't really have
a good case for going against him.

681
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,480
No, I don't either. I
think you know there there are like capital,

682
00:43:24,679 --> 00:43:28,840
They're all they're all locks to me, like Wemby and Cheddar are in

683
00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:31,880
just kind of a separate tier.
But but yeah, like you would have

684
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,480
to really blow me over, like
with some kind I don't know what the

685
00:43:36,559 --> 00:43:38,920
argument would need to be that Miller
doesn't belong on the first team like he

686
00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:43,599
just he was so much more than
we thought he was gonna be. Looks

687
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,199
like a mid range jumper. The
three point shooting held up the defense was.

688
00:43:46,639 --> 00:43:50,280
I mean, Charlotte was a train
wrecked efensively for most of the year,

689
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,039
but just in terms of like one
on one force in the ball of

690
00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:57,599
opponent's hands, even if he I
don't call it off ball, but it's

691
00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:00,159
like he knows this player is trying
to get the ball, but he's able

692
00:44:00,199 --> 00:44:02,079
to deny it. Where because his
off ball defense can be a little spacey.

693
00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:06,639
But the being involved in the direct
stuff, which by the way,

694
00:44:06,679 --> 00:44:08,760
comes back to the point because Chetton
and leb we are right here. The

695
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,639
defense from this rookie class. Is
it all time great? It has to

696
00:44:13,679 --> 00:44:16,800
be. I mean, I I
don't know what the numbers. Would you

697
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:21,039
want numbers you'd even need to figure
that out, but just anecdotally, like

698
00:44:21,039 --> 00:44:23,000
we're going to talk about some like
we don't even got the maybe, I

699
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,840
mean we've we've got in my mind, chet and Wemby are the two best

700
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,840
defensive players in this class, but
like our most impactful. But there's some

701
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,840
other guys that have ceilings that are
way up there too, one of which

702
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,079
made my first team. Maybe that's
a segue I had Aman Thompson here,

703
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,280
you want to give who are your
last two? Since we we have different

704
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,599
too, So who are you?
Yeah, I had I had Aman Thompson

705
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:52,880
and I had Brandon Pajemski Warrior shot
Yeah, well get ready Dan. I

706
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:59,639
think Pajemski had some ups and downs, but played a ton. He want

707
00:44:59,639 --> 00:45:04,480
to start job over a guy that
the team in Klay Thompson did not want

708
00:45:04,519 --> 00:45:08,679
to take the starting job away from
all the all the like makes the right

709
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:14,599
play hustles. I think still leads
the league in charges drawn despite like significantly

710
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:19,280
fewer minutes than than a lot of
other guys on that list. There are

711
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,159
there are holes in his game.
You know, some of the shot creation

712
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,840
is going to be iffy because of
his size and athleticism, Finishing will always

713
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,000
be tough for him. But we're
not talking about guys that have to have

714
00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:31,519
all NBA ceilings. This is for
me, you know, it's it's a

715
00:45:31,519 --> 00:45:35,800
little I guess we never talked about
criteria. Some of it is like how

716
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,159
well did you play this year?
And some of it is I think implicitly,

717
00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:40,800
how good is this guy gonna be? Like do we need to make

718
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,760
sure we put this guy on an
all rookie teams? So sort of we're

719
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,119
on the right side of history.
There's a little bit of that, but

720
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:50,079
I just think he was really productive. He contributed, He played the you

721
00:45:50,119 --> 00:45:53,079
know, contributed to winning on a
team that is going to be you know

722
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:58,800
what ten ish games over five hundred. So yeah, Pods is a fairly

723
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,039
easy inclusion for me. Thompson was
harder because, like I mean that,

724
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:05,960
we'll get into some of the names
on the second team here that I think

725
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,639
could have gone ahead of him.
But the passing, the athleticism, the

726
00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:15,079
defense, the rebounding, the like, what position even is this guy?

727
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,079
Like oh it all looks good everywhere
kind of thing other than the shooting,

728
00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:22,880
like he just feels like almost perfect, like next generation NBA prospect to me,

729
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:27,360
Yeah, he was just a playing
time for me was tough because I

730
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,719
try to very much make all rookie
about just this season. Which is why

731
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,480
because if you if I was scaling
ahead, Cam Whitmore might be on the

732
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,159
first team about that, Yeah,
if you were looking ceilings only right,

733
00:46:38,199 --> 00:46:40,880
and which is but am and Thompson
would be right there because he is so

734
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,840
good defensely already you mentioned all like
the off ball stuff he's able to do

735
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,679
on offense now too. But I
just the minutes there and I know he

736
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,199
has the games played and just like
he's is he over fifteen hundred minutes played

737
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,679
now, so maybe I maybe I
should be moving him up to the first

738
00:46:54,719 --> 00:47:00,639
team at this point. I rounded
mind out though with him and Case and

739
00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:05,360
Wallace. I know Hawkes could he
hit a three, and there's been some

740
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,559
regression on the offensive end. He
is just I feel like he's similar to

741
00:47:09,639 --> 00:47:15,320
Pods so balanced in how he can
impact the game from all these different areas.

742
00:47:15,679 --> 00:47:21,039
But I feel like offensively he might
be the more versatile player right now.

743
00:47:21,679 --> 00:47:24,000
He can get you some buckets in
the post. He can get you

744
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,559
you know, he's a little He's
just stronger overall. He's a different physical

745
00:47:28,559 --> 00:47:32,119
profile there. He rates in the
he's an above aver score at the rim,

746
00:47:32,199 --> 00:47:37,360
sixtieth percent tile, seventy second percentile
for mid range, fifty seven percent

747
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,119
tile in transition, seventy fourth percentile
on post ups. And then the defense

748
00:47:42,159 --> 00:47:45,239
swung it for me, just because
I know Pods is going to be the

749
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,599
better playmaker, even though Hawk is
a very good connective passer and even has

750
00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:52,519
some live dribble stuff to his name, But just Hawks is defending like really

751
00:47:52,559 --> 00:47:58,039
good stars. He's second on the
heat also in total deflections, he ruins

752
00:47:58,079 --> 00:48:01,320
all these kickouts, lobs andrew past
the whole nine. And the fact that

753
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:06,639
he's taken on these higher profile assignments
and it just never looks like he's over

754
00:48:06,679 --> 00:48:09,519
attaxed. That that really matters to
me. And so if we're talking about

755
00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:13,840
ceilings, I don't know where I
put him. I will say, people

756
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,199
talk like he's eighty years old.
He's twenty three. You could still get

757
00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:21,480
better. So but I thought this
was an easier case to make, probably

758
00:48:21,519 --> 00:48:23,440
like you know, pre All Star
break. But I still think he belongs

759
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:29,719
there. Then Cason Wallace, he's
a regular member for the rotation of one

760
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,280
of the five most threatening title contenders
in the league. And the on ball

761
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,000
stuff is not something that stands out
because Ohamas, he doesn't need it to.

762
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:43,000
I think he's shown some you know, good passing, some gnarly footwork

763
00:48:43,039 --> 00:48:45,599
when he gets into traffic. He
needs to be more aggressive looking for his

764
00:48:45,639 --> 00:48:47,840
own shot. On drives, he
can hit threes lights out from the corner

765
00:48:49,159 --> 00:48:52,760
and he just defends his ass off
when you look at he can guard up

766
00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:54,760
like he's guarded some pretty big players. I know he's coming off the bench,

767
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,920
but like he's out himself, and
some like they will throw him on

768
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,079
an island, and it's I know, it's different when you have Chet behind

769
00:49:01,079 --> 00:49:04,079
you a lot of time, but
it's no, we're not gonna send him

770
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:06,199
any help. It's case and Wallace
like he's gonna be able to hold his

771
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:10,320
own. So just the the plug
and play nature on offense plus the I

772
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:15,320
don't wanna call it defensive dominance,
but like the breadth of work and the

773
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,280
difficulty of it. I think even
looking at Okay, there are guys who

774
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,880
have played more minutes, he still
kind of holds off the Pods ONM and

775
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,400
Thompson's here for me. Yeah,
I wonder if I wonder if I just

776
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,280
got like not may ife, I
got like bored with Cason Wallace because it's

777
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:36,559
like he was he was really helpful
and really good and making threes and defending

778
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,800
from like day one, and he
just did that the whole year and we

779
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,079
sort of like, well he was
like a set it and forget it.

780
00:49:42,119 --> 00:49:44,119
We like we don't need to think
about him. Oh look what look what

781
00:49:44,199 --> 00:49:46,199
us are Thompson did, Look what
Amen Thompson did? Oh Pods took another

782
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,239
charge, and then Wallace just goes
about his business doing all the things he

783
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,239
said he was doing. I did
put him on my second team, so

784
00:49:52,519 --> 00:50:00,199
I and I had Pods and I'm
and Thompson on my I will say,

785
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:04,239
even as we're speaking, I like
just want to bump off case In or

786
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,639
Hawks, Ram and Thompson. It's
such a weird impulse to have, but

787
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:10,639
I'm trying to stick to what my
feelings worked. Like, it's so easy

788
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:14,960
to fall because Cason Wallace, I
think, more so than Pods, more

789
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,599
so than Hawk, is definitely more
so than Aman Thompson by virtual availability.

790
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:23,000
He's had this steadier wire, constant
rookie season, right for sure. Yeah,

791
00:50:23,039 --> 00:50:25,639
That's what I'm saying, Like he
was just there, you sort of

792
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,239
you know, I didn't really even
think of him as a rookie that much.

793
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:30,880
It's like, well, they don't
ask him to do that much,

794
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,719
but he's great at what they demand
of him. And just like that's a

795
00:50:35,079 --> 00:50:37,000
that's a solid NBA role player right
now. He just oh yeah, right,

796
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:39,440
this is his first year in the
league. You know, Honestly,

797
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:43,239
Josh Giddy has been playing well,
I'm just like, nah, you get

798
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,079
rid of Giddy, Like this Caseon
Wallace is the guy. I wonder if

799
00:50:45,079 --> 00:50:51,360
I'm over compensating because I was against
how much the thunder gave up and mount

800
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,920
to a lot of it with castways
to get him to move and it's,

801
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,039
oh no, Sam Presty apparently knows
what he's doing. Shocker a little bit.

802
00:50:58,119 --> 00:51:00,800
Yeah, So we had a couple
of commonalities here. We both had

803
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:05,840
Derek Lively, We both had a
sar Thompson on on our second teams.

804
00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:10,960
Yeah, the Derek Lively ca'se got
a little bit harder after he dealt with

805
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,519
injuries. They traded for PJ.
Washington and Daniel Gafford, which ate into

806
00:51:15,519 --> 00:51:21,159
his playing time. But I still
think he is one of the most fundamentally

807
00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:25,800
sound rookies, which just like to
say that about someone in this class is

808
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,840
kind of wild, and he's just
he's just so he's so smart. You

809
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,920
look at like, this player's a
very cerebral player. The way he knows

810
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,840
where to be or his floor awareness, Like depending on Dallas's lineups, it's

811
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,880
it's off the charts for me.
Knows what to do in terms of connecting

812
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,440
or or slipping screens, but he's
also positioning himself away from the ball properly

813
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:50,280
when Luka Danchison, Kyrie ever going
go to work independent of those screens and

814
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,519
then it's okay. Yeah, he's
basically a rim runner, slipper, whatever

815
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:57,800
you want to call on offense.
But like he gets put backs, he

816
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,239
has the transition touches. He made
some waves is like, oh, catching

817
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,960
the ball in the center of the
floor and shot. I think he was

818
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,719
over fifty percent on hook shots and
he's probably he might be done for the

819
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,079
season by the way I think that
came out recently. I also think that

820
00:52:09,639 --> 00:52:14,159
this speaks to the point of rookie
defense. Him and our Star Thompson both

821
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,880
quite frankly, he was a really
good rim protector as a rookie. Opponents

822
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,719
are shooting fifty eight point five percent
at the hoop against him. That's a

823
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,760
rock solid mark. That's right in
line with what Daniel Gafford's doing since he

824
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:28,880
came over to the Mavericks. So
I can't say enough good things about him,

825
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,440
and I'll let you maybe lead it
on if you have any dead and

826
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,719
then plus the Star Thompson case because
he hasn't played in quite some time with

827
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,199
the blood cloud issue. Yeah,
I think I think for lively what i'd

828
00:52:37,199 --> 00:52:43,800
say, is Gafford being so effective
in a weird sort of hurt him because

829
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,599
we I think if we had done
this, and we probably did do this,

830
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:50,840
you know, before the All Star
break, when by the way,

831
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,639
Lively was still I think nineteen.
He's turned twenty, like two months in

832
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:59,440
the middle of February, so it
seems like both he was third or fourth

833
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,119
probably Rookie of the Year, I
think for a good chunk of it,

834
00:53:01,199 --> 00:53:04,679
because like what you said, like, oh my god, this guy is

835
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,400
anchoring a defense. Rookies are supposed
to be terrible defensively, Rookie big men

836
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:12,559
especially cannot be relied upon. He's
catching all these lobs and then Gafford kind

837
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:15,320
of came in and did the same
things and to some extent, like did

838
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:19,360
some of them better. But that
doesn't I don't know that that's fair that

839
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,679
that detracts from how good Lively was, and the playing time ultimately is gonna

840
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,920
hurt him too. But I think
he was a clear second second pick.

841
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:31,800
Asar Thompson just like again before he
went out, you know, we were

842
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:36,360
talking about him like this guy's gonna
be one of the best defenders in the

843
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,920
league for like ten years. He's
gonna make all defensive teams every single season.

844
00:53:40,119 --> 00:53:44,119
It's a lot of the Amen Thompson
stuff, just without quite as much

845
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:49,159
offensive feel. I think would probably
be the main distinction. And also,

846
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,719
like Asar was not set up to
succeed in Detroit, like some of the

847
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:57,039
lineups they had him out there with
just made his lack of shooting like a

848
00:53:57,159 --> 00:54:01,199
really exploitable weakness. So like,
well, nobody was set up succeed in

849
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:07,199
Detroit, So I think maybe him
and Amen would have had more similar seasons

850
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:12,519
had the circumstances been different. My
last guy, which by the way,

851
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:16,400
really quickly, just to reiterate your
point on Star Thompson, they played the

852
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:21,639
Pistons only three hundred and fifty possessions
with him and Caid and then Stewart at

853
00:54:21,679 --> 00:54:23,320
the five, which is really their
only kind of stretch five option unless you

854
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:29,119
count the Gallinari like stint there.
And so you know about not being set

855
00:54:29,159 --> 00:54:31,599
up to succeed, he still shot
fifty five percent on drives and had to

856
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,559
sit straight north of ten on those, So I like him as a ball

857
00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:38,599
mover and somebody could do that.
But his offensive fit long term, again

858
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:43,039
doesn't impact this as much. It's
going to be. It needs to be

859
00:54:43,079 --> 00:54:45,440
optimized. The pitches could be do
a better job of doing it, but

860
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:50,000
like you need, I was.
I was a believer in his jumper by

861
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,599
the way, coming in more so
than Amends at the beginning of the year.

862
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:54,840
And now it's with both these dudes, I don't know which one of

863
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,599
them is more likely to figure out
if it's really hard, like odds are

864
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,360
neither probably just from the early indications, like the mechanics of the shot and

865
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:07,360
just the percentages are what they are, they're you know, it's it's it

866
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:14,280
feels like really long odds that either
one becomes a three point shooter that defenses

867
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,039
care about, which is like,
I don't know what the percentage needs to

868
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:20,840
be, but got like they are
not going to be guarded as conventional wings

869
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,800
yea unless something drastic changes. I
don't know how likely that is. But

870
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:30,440
they both prove they have legit value
without a shot this year, so like,

871
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,119
you know, that doesn't it puts
a cap on their ceilings, but

872
00:55:34,159 --> 00:55:37,000
it's still like pretty high or about
as high as it can be for a

873
00:55:37,039 --> 00:55:42,800
non shooter. Well, I'll just
give you mine. My last guy is

874
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,639
Trace Jackson Davis. We were talking
before I struck, I didn't, like

875
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:51,679
I really wanted to just Keyante George
played a huge role. I should put

876
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,960
him here, Jackson Davis. Some
of the like the permanent stuff is unbelievable,

877
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:59,719
Like he's been starting again, like
another rookie has taken over a starting

878
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:04,519
job for a guy that the Warriors
do not want to bench and awesome lob

879
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:08,639
threat somehow blocks a ton of shots
despite like just always looking like and really

880
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:14,000
being built like a four that's sort
of undersize, Like I don't know if

881
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,599
he's a true center whatever that means
anymore, but he really does get the

882
00:56:16,639 --> 00:56:22,679
most out of like good timing,
athleticism, like quick jumps, good hands,

883
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:27,119
at least defensively good hands. Yeah. I mean, he's just been

884
00:56:27,199 --> 00:56:30,440
like a regular starter for a Warriors
team that has been playing really well lately,

885
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:34,360
and you know, shoots a million
percent from the field. I think,

886
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,559
you know, I if there were
another guy, like if County George

887
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:40,199
had shot it better, I think
I probably would have put him there.

888
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:44,039
But I think Jackson Davis, I
know you had a stat about like some

889
00:56:44,159 --> 00:56:49,440
of the the permanent stuff, and
I think I'm fairly sure that that other

890
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,679
than women Yama. Jackson Davis.
Now this is again not a cumulative stat,

891
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:58,559
but he's second among rookies in EPM. And while you talk a little

892
00:56:58,599 --> 00:57:00,760
bit about your other Jackson Davis,
I'm gonna look up estimated wins here and

893
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,440
see where we're at. That's more
cumulative. Yeah, I mean this is

894
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,880
this isn't just a trace Jackson Davis
stat. By the way, this is

895
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:14,400
also just a like a holy fuck, this rookie class is wild stat.

896
00:57:14,519 --> 00:57:21,079
So he has it's among excuse me, so among all rookies. Like the

897
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:25,599
only people to ever match his block, assist and rebound rates are victim whom

898
00:57:25,639 --> 00:57:30,559
we job by Jet Holme Grid Pretty
good. Pretty good. That's a pretty

899
00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:35,000
good place to be. I struggled
with him because when you look at it,

900
00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:37,800
just the minutes for me, I
think he's nineteenth and told him and

901
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:43,840
it's played among rookies, and like
that's the stuff that I struggle with there.

902
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,239
But you're right, the stuff that's
really impressed me. Anybody doesn't do

903
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:51,400
complicated stuff on offense, but he's
done some handoffs and then also just being

904
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,800
able to play off of either non
shooters or questionable shooters in the front court

905
00:57:54,800 --> 00:58:00,599
when he's a non shooter himself.
Having this the floor awareness there, I

906
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:02,320
think he's important. So I don't
I made fun of you before we started

907
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,480
for putting amy here. I might
have called you a homer, but I

908
00:58:05,519 --> 00:58:07,719
called myself a homer. For the
record, I admitted to it. Yeah,

909
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,559
I would just say too, like
he's by the way, he's fifth

910
00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:15,480
and EPM among rookies, so not
second, certainly good enough to at least

911
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,679
more at consideration his timing, Like
sometimes the things you look for in rookies

912
00:58:21,079 --> 00:58:24,639
I think have to be sort of
not as quantifiable, like if you're just

913
00:58:24,719 --> 00:58:30,199
like, how good is this guy
at like the actual like task of playing

914
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:36,000
NBA basketball? And tjd has as
a role guy from a bunch of different

915
00:58:36,039 --> 00:58:40,039
angles has established specifically with Klay Thompson, like phenomenal chemistry and timing as a

916
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:45,400
roleman, and his ability to finish
around defenders being left handed helps, I

917
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:49,519
think is he just kind of comes
at it from angles that most guys are

918
00:58:49,599 --> 00:58:51,440
just like, oh shit, he's
a lefty. He went around me,

919
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,599
but he gets up for lobbs.
He's just like quick up off the floor

920
00:58:55,639 --> 00:58:59,880
around the room. Just like a
lot of little things where we actually,

921
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:04,480
to be honest, it like when
you watch him play, it really is

922
00:59:04,559 --> 00:59:07,199
kind of baffling that he went as
late as he did, Like we're talking

923
00:59:07,199 --> 00:59:12,039
a guy like late fifties in the
you know set deep second round, and

924
00:59:12,079 --> 00:59:15,480
I just can't fathom how you would
watch him as specifically just as a roleman

925
00:59:16,079 --> 00:59:19,920
and not think like that's probably gonna
work. So you don't think this is

926
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,760
gonna be like a Jordan Bell type
situation. Would I would be terrified to

927
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:29,800
hear how high I was on Jordan
Bell at certain points of Jordan Bell's career.

928
00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:31,599
Anthony Randolph, that's another one.
If you want to talk about other

929
00:59:31,639 --> 00:59:37,039
Warriors guys that didn't pan out.
Uh So my fifth guy on the second

930
00:59:37,079 --> 00:59:39,400
team was This will come as a
surprised to no one who listens to this

931
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:44,360
podcast, blow cool Bali. He's
an ended a little bit earlier, but

932
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,440
he did enough in the sixty plus
plus games that he actually did play for

933
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,480
me to say, you know,
like, this is still the guy they

934
00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:55,239
baptized Washington baptized him by fire.
On the defensive end, he handled a

935
00:59:55,239 --> 00:59:59,480
lot of really tough assignments and he's
not even super strong yet. He will

936
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:04,519
get stronger. He didn't really look
super taxed. The efficiency on offense,

937
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,400
you know, it's not something that
is going to be it's not stand out

938
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:12,920
at any level, but he hit
more of his threes. That shot looks

939
01:00:13,559 --> 01:00:17,519
just a lot better in general from
him, and like the three point shot,

940
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:22,559
his drives can be a little bit
chaotic, but he still is able

941
01:00:22,599 --> 01:00:25,639
to attack. I mentioned his three
point three before. He did do a

942
01:00:25,639 --> 01:00:30,599
really good job of kind of just
working from the corners. I think the

943
01:00:30,679 --> 01:00:34,119
other thing with him is that I
was impressed just kind of as a decision

944
01:00:34,119 --> 01:00:37,480
maker offensively, Like they did some
stuff I mentioned tjd in the center floor.

945
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:39,840
They would screen, they would have
Google Bali screen and catch the ball

946
01:00:40,079 --> 01:00:43,360
on a short roller in the center
of the floor, then try to dish

947
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:45,079
these passes, and I thought he
did a pretty good job on that.

948
01:00:45,239 --> 01:00:51,000
And so you combine that with just
the type of players he went toe to

949
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,480
toe with on the defensive end.
I was a little bit disappointed that they

950
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:58,079
didn't make him more central to the
offense as the season went on, But

951
01:00:58,119 --> 01:01:00,639
through the sixty three appearances, I
do think that he was one of the

952
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:06,880
ten best rookies in the league.
Yeah, I would say that like Brandon

953
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:12,320
Miller being you know it, turning
out that like comparing him to Paul George

954
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,000
is a huge compliment as opposed to
like a knock on why he shouldn't have

955
01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:17,119
been the second pick. That's more
consequential in terms of like, oh,

956
01:01:17,159 --> 01:01:22,719
he's a different type of thing than
we thought. But Kolibali coming in projected

957
01:01:22,719 --> 01:01:27,920
to be like this guy is like
the rawest raw, Like this guy does

958
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,599
not know like which end of the
court to run down type of things you

959
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,440
hear just ridiculous, not specifically that, but like this guy's got so far

960
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,039
to go, and he was like
saying saying Kulibally was polished is like a

961
01:01:38,119 --> 01:01:43,639
little bit too much, but he
was so much more like developed and refined

962
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:47,199
than we were led to believe coming
into the season. So like, yeah,

963
01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:51,360
it's not quite the same thing as
Miller. But like I so I

964
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,400
actually made a last second correction because
we're gonna talk about third teams here.

965
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:57,920
I blew it and didn't have Koolibally
on my third team. I just I

966
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,199
kicked off Duopreath from the third team. Not to jump too far ahead,

967
01:02:00,199 --> 01:02:04,800
but I have to have cool Bali
on my third team. Yeah, so

968
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,039
we had who did you? Well, I guess, so now we have

969
01:02:07,079 --> 01:02:10,559
so we have three overlaps and I'll
fix your other one. So we have

970
01:02:10,599 --> 01:02:14,320
three overlaps on them. If you
want to talk about we've got four,

971
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,039
Well we don't anymore because you kicked
off wreath. You don't have a reeth

972
01:02:17,079 --> 01:02:20,360
on. Oh did you put wreath
into the last second, I'm looking at

973
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,639
the dock house. Well, I
guess I'll throw that out. So I

974
01:02:22,679 --> 01:02:25,360
have wreath as well. I just
I mean stretch big and he did a

975
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,880
lot of good stuff for the Portland
trail Blazers. I thought he was able

976
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,320
to defend in space pretty well too, so I ended up putting him over.

977
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,039
Cam Whitmore was another guy i'd consider, but again just the minutes and

978
01:02:37,079 --> 01:02:42,679
games played for me, that ended
up being a not like a deal breaker,

979
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,880
but that is what was, you
know, super tough for me.

980
01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:49,880
Yeah. Yeah, I had Wreath
over cool Bali, but I moved cool

981
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:53,960
Bali in for him. I did
include Whitmore. I guess it's pretty clear

982
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:58,639
from from all these so far that
I'm a little less concerned with the volume

983
01:02:58,639 --> 01:03:00,800
of playing time than you are.
I don't know that that's right or wrong,

984
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,639
But I think I think that's fine. Yeah, just it's specifically with

985
01:03:04,719 --> 01:03:07,519
rookies. It's like what did he
show and what whitmore showed is like,

986
01:03:07,519 --> 01:03:09,719
I mean, I don't know what
it's going to turn into. It may

987
01:03:09,719 --> 01:03:13,800
take and it's gonna take a while. But just the athleticism, the transition

988
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,039
game, the ability to get off
his threes, you know, contested off

989
01:03:17,039 --> 01:03:22,679
the dribble from real deep. It
just I don't know, you understand why

990
01:03:22,719 --> 01:03:25,679
he was like this guy's a top
four, top five talent that slips the

991
01:03:25,719 --> 01:03:31,239
twenty and and so like he showed
he showed enough to me to justify Like

992
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:36,159
maybe we'll see the downside maybe like
the quote unquote character concerns and the knee

993
01:03:36,199 --> 01:03:38,480
issues and whatever that made him slip
will crop up. But based on what

994
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,800
we saw this season, like I
get it. I understand why he was

995
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,079
regarded as highly as he was.
So the other the other difference we had,

996
01:03:46,199 --> 01:03:49,639
Oh you have well I don't want
to spoil yours. Who's your who's

997
01:03:49,639 --> 01:03:52,199
your fifth guy that I don't So
you had you and Cam on there,

998
01:03:52,239 --> 01:03:53,960
which I just get when you look
at his physical tools of like the jump

999
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,559
shop feels like it's gonna be real
even if the off the dribble stuff isn't

1000
01:03:57,559 --> 01:04:00,679
falling. And I respect someone who's
just gonna dunk on everyone. It was

1001
01:04:00,719 --> 01:04:02,920
purely playing time for me very quickly. I know you did mention Kiante George

1002
01:04:03,239 --> 01:04:08,440
the efficiency let him struggling with it, and then part of that is on

1003
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:12,920
Utah and the surrounding personnel with him. But I did feel like he got

1004
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,119
better progressively. We're looking at his
decision making kind of maintaining his dribble,

1005
01:04:15,639 --> 01:04:18,239
But I question is there gonna be
a ton of rim pressure from him.

1006
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,559
I think the efficiency will come around. He was second team. He was

1007
01:04:21,559 --> 01:04:25,559
probably first team for me at one
point. Yeah, just for so long.

1008
01:04:25,639 --> 01:04:28,000
So it's not you know, leaving
him off. It was just tough

1009
01:04:28,159 --> 01:04:30,079
tomnic Kamara is just the defensive beast, by the way, and he's shooting

1010
01:04:30,119 --> 01:04:34,599
like thirty three point seven percent from
deep on okay volume, and it's that

1011
01:04:34,599 --> 01:04:38,760
could come up at like two or
three percentage points woof. And I would

1012
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,920
like to see him use him as
more of a big man on offense sometimes

1013
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,679
like as a screener, which when
you have eight and there or dwap wreath,

1014
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,079
is there not necessarily gonna do so? More Tonic more to Moni Kamara

1015
01:04:48,159 --> 01:04:51,480
at the five please, and then
the other guy by the way, Gigi

1016
01:04:51,639 --> 01:04:57,039
Jackson. I'm we should do a
twenty twenty three redraft, like because it's

1017
01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:01,159
interesting in this sense of where it's
no longer about just the best players yet

1018
01:05:01,199 --> 01:05:03,920
because we only have one year sample
size, so you're still kind of waiting

1019
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:08,679
the long term. This guy,
there's questions about his on ball dynamism.

1020
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:12,199
I don't know what that's gonna end
up being. But he's six' nine.

1021
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:16,000
He defended everyone from a Stephen Curry
or Daron Fox to a Shay Gilgess

1022
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,719
Alexander to a Kate Cunningham. But
he also defended Lebron Palo Bancaro, and

1023
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:26,360
he shot thirty seven percent on his
catching shoot threes. Is it just like

1024
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,800
that's just that's what you want?
Like, that's literally just that I'm interested

1025
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:31,400
in. I do want to see
what he looks like where if they want

1026
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,400
to play him next to Jarreon Jackson
Junior without another big or with I'm just

1027
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:39,159
I want to see more of what
they look like at full strength when he's

1028
01:05:39,199 --> 01:05:43,079
there. But he was he actually
when I'm looking at this list, might

1029
01:05:43,079 --> 01:05:46,159
have been the toughest for me to
leave off of the the second team.

1030
01:05:46,239 --> 01:05:51,880
And then my my final third team
inclusion was Anthony Black. Just the offense

1031
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,880
isn't there and he has hit his
threes, but he's taken almost none of

1032
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,880
them. So the defense, the
floor, navigation on defense, the ability

1033
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,719
to suffocate, he's impossible to screen. I just think he was a part.

1034
01:06:05,079 --> 01:06:06,960
His minutes could be a little bit
all over the place, but the

1035
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,639
Magic are a good team with immediate
aspirations, and the fact that he played

1036
01:06:10,639 --> 01:06:13,719
at all when they have someone else
in Jet Howard who spent his entire season

1037
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,719
in the G League, and Jet
Howard, in theory, fills more of

1038
01:06:15,719 --> 01:06:20,039
a need for Orlando than Anthony Black
does. Matters to me, and so

1039
01:06:20,119 --> 01:06:23,760
I had him there, but it
wasn't. Again. I again, Cam

1040
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,679
Whitmore, you could have considered there. I think other names to like would

1041
01:06:27,719 --> 01:06:33,519
have popped up in this Excuse me
as as I'm choking a little bit like

1042
01:06:33,719 --> 01:06:38,119
a Grady Dick Scoot Henderson. I
think his job was tough. I didn't

1043
01:06:38,119 --> 01:06:42,039
have Trace Jackson Davis anywhere. Vasili
Mitchitz could have been part of this Marcus

1044
01:06:42,039 --> 01:06:45,440
Sasser, so not even Ben Sheppard
for what he's able to do defensively.

1045
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:47,639
There are a lot of this rookie
class. I feel like maybe our impressions

1046
01:06:47,639 --> 01:06:50,280
will change. We might look back
and be like, whoa this was.

1047
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:55,079
This was a fantastic rookie class.
Yeah. I think your point earlier about

1048
01:06:55,199 --> 01:07:00,320
defensively is I can't remember the last
class that went this deep, because like

1049
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,119
rookies, it's such a it's such
a trope, like rookies are you're lucky

1050
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:08,559
if a rookie doesn't kill you on
defense generally speaking, And like there's a

1051
01:07:08,599 --> 01:07:13,800
bunch of like value add guys right
now that all project to get even more

1052
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:18,239
impactful. So yeah, this is
this is the best defensive rookie class that

1053
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,639
I can remember. That's like a
risky thing to say, because someone's gonna

1054
01:07:21,639 --> 01:07:26,119
wow at twenty sixteen was you know, But still, yeah, I think

1055
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:30,719
a really deep rookie class too.
I'm this is gonna be fascinating to do

1056
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,800
next year, by the way,
Yeah, because this next draft is supposed

1057
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:39,199
to be just absolute garbage and you
know it won't be h but I'll be

1058
01:07:39,239 --> 01:07:43,480
curious to see if it's got anything
close to this one. We are on

1059
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:49,119
too. Speaking of defense, we
are on to all defense. So this

1060
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:54,239
was I think on some level.
I mean it's hard because defense is so

1061
01:07:54,599 --> 01:07:59,400
I think subjective, and then you're
also at the mercy of your own limitations

1062
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,880
of what you want to stand that's
actually happening. Uh. We did have.

1063
01:08:02,119 --> 01:08:05,719
We had a bunch of overlap on
these. Uh we both had I

1064
01:08:05,719 --> 01:08:10,719
think the easiest and the easiest inclusion
of all, I would argue, unless

1065
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,039
you think just is Rudy Gobert on
the first team, Yeah, it just

1066
01:08:14,119 --> 01:08:15,760
has to be. He's gonna win
Defensive Player of the Year, like I

1067
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,760
would be stunning if he didn't.
So he's got to be there. We

1068
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,000
had I don't know why I listened
to them out of order for us,

1069
01:08:21,039 --> 01:08:25,720
but we had. We had four
overlaps or no, we had our first

1070
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:30,479
team was the same. So round
the table, Yeah, so bam Ad,

1071
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:34,319
Victor Webin, Yama, Joeen Suggs. I don't know what are the

1072
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:39,680
Are there any controversial picks among these? I think, go bear, let

1073
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,840
me let me go with Wemby here, because now we've gone through we've gone

1074
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:46,680
through all rookie and all NBA.
The Spurs are in basically the eighty eight

1075
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:50,199
percentile of defense when he's on the
court. Yep, it's just and by

1076
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:53,680
the way, they've also won his
minutes since moving him to the five.

1077
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:58,039
Basically that's another thing. But this
is just someone we've talked about it fox

1078
01:08:58,119 --> 01:09:00,640
up your entire process by virtue of
e and so yes, I do think

1079
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:06,039
Bam and Anthony Davis are more dynamic
because they don't have the same just ubiquitous

1080
01:09:06,039 --> 01:09:12,399
physical presence. But like Victor Ramayama
is in the Rudy gobertire of you're just

1081
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,119
so dominant, and yet he does
can do all these like he can recover

1082
01:09:15,199 --> 01:09:18,880
in ways that Rudy Gobert could only
imagine, even this version of Rudy Gobert,

1083
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,840
who has been just the hit mobility
that's sliding the feet. He's been

1084
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:26,159
incredible this year. I don't think
it should be controversial to put him,

1085
01:09:26,199 --> 01:09:29,359
by the way, unless I'm mistaken, the first ever rookie to make a

1086
01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:32,239
first team All Defense. If it
happens, I mean it has to happen,

1087
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:38,119
like the physical profile one like,
just is it disrespectful If it doesn't,

1088
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:43,319
it would be it would be disrespectful. One hundred percent the physical profile,

1089
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:46,119
like he can just reach to more
areas of the floor. Like that's

1090
01:09:46,159 --> 01:09:48,920
just I know, that's like not
an interesting thing to talk about, but

1091
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:54,960
like he can cover more space than
anyone really ever probably and the fact that

1092
01:09:55,000 --> 01:10:00,520
he can move with all that length
is just like that's one the numbers are

1093
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:02,720
bonkers, like the block and steel
numbers historically, or you know, you

1094
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:06,920
have to go to like David Robinson
and like all the just the Alzheimer's with

1095
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:13,680
the combination of blocks and steels that
he has. I think we we are

1096
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,439
under rating, I know, because
I know, like it was ugly in

1097
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:19,600
the beginning of the year when he
was sort of anchored to Zach Collins as

1098
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:24,600
as like a and he was the
four. But the set you sided where

1099
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,680
you know, the spurs defend at
like an eightieth percent of clip when he's

1100
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:34,479
on the floor. So that's with
personnel that's basically also terrible around him.

1101
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:39,319
It's not the same thing as like, well Gobert elevates the wolves to this

1102
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:41,319
level when he's on the floor.
It's like, well, yeah, I

1103
01:10:41,359 --> 01:10:44,039
mean, Jade McDaniels is out there
a lot of the time. Edwards is

1104
01:10:44,039 --> 01:10:46,319
out there a lot like they also
play two bigs. Generally speaking, when

1105
01:10:46,319 --> 01:10:50,239
everyone's healthy, that helps the defense. When Benyama's out there with the Malachi

1106
01:10:50,319 --> 01:10:55,000
brandums of the world like trying to
like hold, you know, play defense

1107
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:59,920
by himself. It's insane that they're
if they were if the number wasn't eight

1108
01:11:00,239 --> 01:11:02,520
percentile, if it was like fiftieth, I think we should still be bowled

1109
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:08,560
over because like the surrounding personnel is
just like in a lot of cases like

1110
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:13,039
not NBA caliber. So he's you
could argue that he's like, you know,

1111
01:11:13,239 --> 01:11:15,359
Rudy Gobert is the best defensive player
on by far the best defensive team

1112
01:11:15,399 --> 01:11:18,760
in the league. I wonder what
the Wolves defense looks like if ween Benyama

1113
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,359
is in go Bear's place and he
has those other guys around him, Like,

1114
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:27,079
is it better? I don't know, Like it's possibility because his mobility,

1115
01:11:27,199 --> 01:11:30,800
his I just there's it's an unanswerable
question, but like it's it's not

1116
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:36,399
a given that Gobert that Wemby would
make that defense worse if he were in

1117
01:11:36,399 --> 01:11:40,199
Gobart's place, is what I'm trying
to say. Yeah, I mean with

1118
01:11:40,279 --> 01:11:42,680
that Calen it wouldn't be I don't
know, you could say, wouldn't they

1119
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:45,880
be better? I don't like better
than what they are, right, It's

1120
01:11:46,079 --> 01:11:49,079
yeah, I mean, I I
don't know what the argument like, I

1121
01:11:49,079 --> 01:11:54,159
guess you'd say, you know,
he makes more mistakes because he's young,

1122
01:11:54,279 --> 01:11:57,199
and like he can be bullied a
little more than Gobert. But like we're

1123
01:11:57,279 --> 01:12:00,920
picking real small knits here at this
point. And look, we pick go

1124
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:02,680
Berreford defensive Player of the Year because
I think that that's the right Paul.

1125
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,800
But but this might be the best
way to frame Wenby's case. It says

1126
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:11,119
a lot that if you're talking about
the Spurs going after Trey Young or Darius

1127
01:12:11,119 --> 01:12:14,880
Garland, it's not oh, how
is he is when going to be able

1128
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:16,840
to cover up with them defensively?
It's with Crayon specifically, is he too

1129
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,960
ball dominant for the fit to work
on offense and has nothing to do with

1130
01:12:20,239 --> 01:12:25,239
like will these new guys like mess
him up as opposed to handle them being

1131
01:12:25,319 --> 01:12:27,560
Garland on offense? Wouldn't I don't
know why I included him. No,

1132
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,239
although this version of Garland, I
don't know who he's helping on offense,

1133
01:12:30,279 --> 01:12:33,800
to be honest with you, but
I feel like he's just didn't quite get

1134
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:38,039
right after getting hit in the face
for the millionth time this year. The

1135
01:12:38,319 --> 01:12:41,239
so among the other inclusions, I
don't think any of them should be viewed

1136
01:12:41,239 --> 01:12:45,520
as controversial, but there is a
sentiment that Bam is wildly overrated on defense

1137
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,720
or more valuable in the postseason.
I just think the amount of coverages,

1138
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:53,520
the heat run out, and now
the fact that they're not, you know,

1139
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:57,039
switching him as much, and yet
he's still dominating, and he's improved

1140
01:12:57,079 --> 01:12:59,640
his room Like you want the raw
drop coverage, room protection, go look

1141
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:01,359
at them. He's having his best
season there too. For that, I

1142
01:13:01,399 --> 01:13:06,239
think he's having his best friend protecting
season. Is there more I don't want

1143
01:13:06,239 --> 01:13:10,840
to There probably is, but like
versatility, especially among Biggs, is there

1144
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,560
more versatile? It might be Anthony
Davis or what means weird because it's is

1145
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:19,159
he versatile or is he an alien? Yes? I think I know.

1146
01:13:19,319 --> 01:13:23,760
I'm not listening to a whole lot
of arguments that Bam doesn't belong here.

1147
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:27,600
I think it's well, let's do
the like which one of these doesn't belong

1148
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:30,600
approach to this, like Jalen Suggs
is the only guard here, I think

1149
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:35,039
by virtue of the fact that he
is here, we're sort of acknowledging he's

1150
01:13:35,159 --> 01:13:39,720
been the best defensive guard in the
league this year, just all around.

1151
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:42,840
I don't think. I don't think
that there's some other guys in that conversation.

1152
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:45,720
I think what we're what we should
maybe wrestle with, And what I

1153
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:50,359
wrestled with is like, does the
best defensive guard deserve a spot on All

1154
01:13:50,399 --> 01:13:55,560
Defense first team over like the fifth
best defensive big guy? You know,

1155
01:13:55,680 --> 01:14:00,279
because just defensive bigs matter more,
they have greater responsibilities, they have more

1156
01:14:00,359 --> 01:14:02,800
of a chance to impact the overall
defensive performance of a team. So like,

1157
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:10,319
should Suggs be here over Chaed Holmgren
over Jared Allen over? Like,

1158
01:14:11,039 --> 01:14:13,039
I don't know, I'm struggling to
come up with some other ones, but

1159
01:14:13,119 --> 01:14:15,439
like, you know what I mean, right like that, I think if

1160
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,520
you put Suggs here, which we
both did, we're kind of saying like

1161
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:21,600
he was that good at a position
where the defensive value is just not as

1162
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:25,600
high to warrant this inclusion. I
feel okay about it, But if I

1163
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,680
had to kick someone off, it
probably would be him, just because of

1164
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:33,680
the positional thing. Yeah, I
just, yeah, I get what you're

1165
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:39,199
saying there, but the things that
he does where it's it's the breadth of

1166
01:14:39,239 --> 01:14:43,720
assignments. It is the pick sixes
steals, it's being able to kind of

1167
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:48,439
shut down someone else where. It's
not just he needs to be either on

1168
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,439
the second or third, like he
will shut down the first best guy.

1169
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,920
While also if he's not involved in
the primary actions, he's going to help

1170
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:59,680
out all over the place. And
I've also come to view, especially when

1171
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:02,760
you watch the Pelicans or even the
Rockets this year, perimeter defense can be

1172
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:08,560
your form of rim protection. Yeah, and it just a little bits.

1173
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:12,560
Yeah, that's the out of bio
argument, right, and so that's like

1174
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,560
that's what Allen Suggs does for the
magic who just so happened to have talent

1175
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:20,039
elsewhere, one of them being Jonathan
Isaac who's not eligible for this this award,

1176
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:24,960
or to be included in one of
the two All defensive teams. I

1177
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:27,119
get what you're saying, though,
where if you had to knock him all,

1178
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,880
yeah, I could understand, But
I look at so big men might

1179
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:33,840
be responsible for more, which I
guess in terms makes their role harder.

1180
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:39,560
But like Chet Holmgren or even well
actually Bam and AD would be like a

1181
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:43,760
Wemburo Gobert. It's not hey,
go defend Steph Curry like there has to

1182
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:45,880
be I know Steph might get the
best of you, but like there's a

1183
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:49,760
value in being able to do something
like that to track movement shooters or primary

1184
01:15:50,119 --> 01:15:54,600
ball handlers having to go through the
pick and roller when teams are like trying

1185
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,439
to screen the hell out of you
and you're like the way that he can

1186
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:00,960
also, it's like navigating the screens
and recovery and being able to bust up

1187
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:03,119
place from behind or in front of
it, or going stride for stride like

1188
01:16:03,199 --> 01:16:06,600
mobility wise with his hip, it's
even and you know you mentioned the other

1189
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:11,680
candidates. What separates him from Derek
White or Herb Jones. I would say

1190
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:15,039
we're splitting hairs there, but it's
when you look at Derek White has had

1191
01:16:15,079 --> 01:16:19,239
support in other instances where it feels
like his role isn't as wide as Jalen

1192
01:16:19,239 --> 01:16:23,680
Suggs is right now, so that
matters to me. And with Herb it

1193
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:28,159
feels like there's more of a like
Herb might be the more dominant one on

1194
01:16:28,159 --> 01:16:30,399
one defender and if something you need
someone to kind of be at the basket

1195
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:32,720
and then get out the clothes out
on a shot from me on the arc.

1196
01:16:33,319 --> 01:16:36,239
That's something that his size and his
length will allow him to do.

1197
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:41,840
But if you kind of just need
someone from anywhere on the floor, like

1198
01:16:42,039 --> 01:16:45,119
at the outer levels, I think
that Jalen Suggs is going to be better

1199
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,920
there. And it's again, it's
just it's splitting hairs at that point.

1200
01:16:49,079 --> 01:16:53,760
Yeah, your actual point though about
should this just all be I don't.

1201
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:56,479
I don't know how to square that
away. I don't honestly think you're wrong.

1202
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,760
I don't. Yeah, No,
that's I was just voicing like what

1203
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,640
I was kind of agonizing over as
I did. I think I think Suggs.

1204
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:08,359
Suggs is flat out great at every
single thing you would want a guard

1205
01:17:08,399 --> 01:17:11,560
to do. Defensively, He's just
like a shot blocking element of it.

1206
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:15,840
Everything everything on the ball, off
the ball, like is how hard he

1207
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:19,159
plays, Like, he's physical,
like you can't back him down, Like

1208
01:17:19,199 --> 01:17:21,680
he's just like everything you would want
a guy to do at that position,

1209
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:26,199
he's excellent at. So I think
we got to acknowledge that a little bit.

1210
01:17:26,359 --> 01:17:30,239
I'm glad we agreed on it.
What happened if Danny Green and Drew

1211
01:17:30,279 --> 01:17:35,119
Halliday and Derek White refused into one, and you just made him like a

1212
01:17:35,159 --> 01:17:39,640
little meaner than all three of those
guys. That's I don't know how you

1213
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:43,199
do that, but yeah, So
second team is really interesting though, because

1214
01:17:43,359 --> 01:17:45,920
you mentioned a couple that, Yeah, we have three overlaps, so I'll

1215
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:49,800
throw those up on the screen right
now, Yeah, which are Derek White,

1216
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:55,079
Herb Jones, and Alex Caruso.
And I think you know you should

1217
01:17:55,079 --> 01:17:58,880
pick your flavor because any any three
of those guys I think you could make

1218
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:02,800
a case could take sugs is spot
on the first team. I think White

1219
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,960
and Herb have stronger cases than Caruso
this year, I will say that,

1220
01:18:06,239 --> 01:18:11,399
Yeah, I think that's probably although
Caruso is just like he's such a nightmare

1221
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,199
like on the ball and he's just
so I mean, I don't know.

1222
01:18:14,359 --> 01:18:17,399
He might be harder to screen than
Suggs, which is there. He might

1223
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:21,359
be the only guy that that's true, I guess, but it just watching

1224
01:18:21,399 --> 01:18:24,920
him and I haven't checked the data
on this in quite some time, and

1225
01:18:25,039 --> 01:18:30,720
he doesn't scale like positionally across the
spectrum as much as a Derek White or

1226
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:35,000
a Herb Jones or even a jail
In Sugs and again splitting microscopicopic. Yeah,

1227
01:18:35,039 --> 01:18:39,960
I mean Jones's length is a real
asset, like Caruso is a is

1228
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:43,800
a guard and Jones is like,
you're good with Jones on someone that's six

1229
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:46,439
' nine. I don't know that
that's true with Caruso or even really Sugs

1230
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:51,479
sometimes too. But yeah, so
those were easy picks for me. We

1231
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:56,760
diverged on two though, And I
also I love the guys you picked.

1232
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:00,399
I don't. I'm uncomfortable. Now
can we do that? So what we

1233
01:19:00,399 --> 01:19:02,800
should do? Because I think we'll
make one fan base happy even though we

1234
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:06,439
each didn't include the same person,
but we do have two anothers Yeah,

1235
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:12,039
that's right, we're gonna We're not
gonna piss anybody off here. Uh.

1236
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,119
The KCP case is just he might
I think when you look at all these

1237
01:19:15,159 --> 01:19:20,600
guys, he might be the most
underappreciated one because maybe even Aaron Gordon's and

1238
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:24,520
that, like, are these the
two most underappreciated names on this list?

1239
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:28,720
For what they do? KCP is
just like it's year in and year out,

1240
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:30,439
and it's every single night when you're
looking at having to defend the most

1241
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:34,439
difficult assignments. And he also does
need to cover up for some stuff away

1242
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:38,960
from a ball, like behind certain
guys, and he's one of the I

1243
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:42,359
think he's still one of the better, just transition, like getting back or

1244
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:46,359
knowing how to like making sure that
he's matched up correctly, or just going

1245
01:19:46,359 --> 01:19:50,000
stride for stride with guys being able
to handle where it's KCP. He kind

1246
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:53,960
of looks strong, but like the
type of bodies he's able to go up

1247
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,439
against. It's it's quickness, it's
physicality. It could be movement shooters,

1248
01:19:57,439 --> 01:19:59,920
it could be the guys that are
going north south, it could be the

1249
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,399
East west type deals up. To
me, he's one of the more underappreciated

1250
01:20:02,399 --> 01:20:06,319
defenders in in the league. But
that's just me trying to make my case

1251
01:20:06,359 --> 01:20:11,199
for why he's on my second team
All Defense. And I mean he was

1252
01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:14,319
on this because we both had some
changes since the last time we did this,

1253
01:20:15,039 --> 01:20:16,600
because I think I had Derek,
why you're on first team along with

1254
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:19,640
Suggs, Like KCP has been a
constant for me, So maybe I'm just

1255
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:24,199
married to it. No, I
love KCP. You mentioned Danny Green,

1256
01:20:24,279 --> 01:20:28,840
like KCP really does feel like you
know that a new Danny Green. Although

1257
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:31,640
like Danny Green it felt like if
a guy was on a breakaway and Green

1258
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:35,319
was chasing him, he was gonna
block the layup just like one hundred percent

1259
01:20:35,319 --> 01:20:39,079
of the time. KCP is not
quite but like that was that might have

1260
01:20:39,159 --> 01:20:42,520
been like that's a singular skill at
Green, but like same idea, like

1261
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:44,840
he'll guard the one, he'll guard
the two, He'll guard whoever. They

1262
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:48,199
don't want to put Jamal Murray on. He's super quick, slithery around screens,

1263
01:20:48,239 --> 01:20:51,199
like he just you know, all
these guys were talking about just kind

1264
01:20:51,199 --> 01:20:58,119
of don't really have flaws as as
guard defenders. I went with Gordon OVERKCP

1265
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:01,960
just because I think in isolation and
maybe I'm just watching you know, all

1266
01:21:02,039 --> 01:21:05,960
the best moments of him. There's
just not a matchup he can't stay in

1267
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:10,279
front of, like the way people
talk about og Anobi and I think it's

1268
01:21:10,319 --> 01:21:13,640
true and Anonobe is healthy, is
like you kind of there's not like a

1269
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:18,079
player type that Gordon is overmatched against
because he has you know, true you

1270
01:21:18,079 --> 01:21:21,399
know, forward size, but moves
his feet really well and is long and

1271
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:27,239
is really smart. I just think
on the ball, he's he is a

1272
01:21:27,279 --> 01:21:30,840
guy that I think enables Denver to
do a lot of different things, because

1273
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:34,840
if he gets switched on to someone
that normally you'd worry about a four guarding,

1274
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:38,920
you just don't worry about it because
he's gonna either stay in front of

1275
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:41,479
the guy, or recover and contest
from behind, or block a shot.

1276
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:45,920
He's just he's such a complete,
you know, front court defender. So

1277
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:48,800
I went with him. So but
again, good job by us. Nobody

1278
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:53,039
from Denver is going to be mad
because we we hit both of these guys

1279
01:21:53,199 --> 01:21:57,680
back. They be like, oh, where yokicch on this? These sixth

1280
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:00,680
in the league in deflections? Get
him up there is actually true. I

1281
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:03,600
think I saw that stat. Do
you want to reveal your final player who

1282
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,239
I had on my third And by
the way, I didn't clarify this with

1283
01:22:06,359 --> 01:22:10,600
all rookie if anyone's watching, we
don't actually think there's a third team.

1284
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:13,479
It was just we had the third
team set up for the All NBA,

1285
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,600
so I figured it'd be thrown on
screen for the third teams for all rookies

1286
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,960
and all defense are honorable mentions.
We also did fourth team for All NBA.

1287
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:25,479
I wondered if these idiots think there's
a third team for all rookiest we

1288
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:29,640
live in a participation trophy culture,
we just want to acknowledge as many people

1289
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:31,560
as possible. We're going to get
through our fourth through six teams in a

1290
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:38,720
second. So I went with chet
Holmgren largely on the theory of, like

1291
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:45,079
big guys really matter defensively. He's
a good shot, blocker, great feet,

1292
01:22:45,119 --> 01:22:46,439
like again, same thing I talked
about with Gordon, Like he's not

1293
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:49,720
going to necessarily stay in front of
guys like Gordon will, but he's longer

1294
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:55,079
and probably like longer strides, quicker, is gonna block shots from behind,

1295
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:59,399
hard to beat, great help side
defender. I love that he like he's

1296
01:22:59,399 --> 01:23:02,760
been dunked on, but like he
is not shying away from just going up

1297
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:08,520
and trying to be vertical and defend
the rim regardless of who's coming at him.

1298
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:11,479
I think he's I think he's gonna
make some first teams, uh,

1299
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:15,279
you know, in the next few
years, just just because he's gonna provide

1300
01:23:15,319 --> 01:23:18,800
what you want from a conventional big
guy with with with like a little i

1301
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:23,600
don't know, heavier sprinkling of some
of the like versatility and stuff that we

1302
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:29,439
get from guys like Jones and og
and and you know even Gordon. Yeah,

1303
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:33,039
I I don't disagree with you.
I just there's the talent around him.

1304
01:23:33,079 --> 01:23:36,479
And this is another case actually where
I don't know why didn't frame it

1305
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:41,159
like this when we were talking about
the Nuggets. I have a thunder player

1306
01:23:41,159 --> 01:23:44,319
here too. I also have another
thunder player on my third teams all reveal

1307
01:23:44,399 --> 01:23:47,399
him as well uh Juwa my honorable
mention team, and then I have lou

1308
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:51,199
Dort on my second team. Here, lou Dort still covers the toughest assignments.

1309
01:23:51,239 --> 01:23:56,560
He's just so incredibly difficult to move. His flaw. His flaw or

1310
01:23:57,239 --> 01:24:03,039
the crack in his case could technically
be well he kind of lasers in because

1311
01:24:03,079 --> 01:24:06,760
that's his role, but do you
know what, he could basically shut down

1312
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:12,800
anyone yep. And he can guard
so many different types of best players because

1313
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:16,880
of just how strong and dirthy he
is. But also while maintaining that quickness

1314
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:20,560
and explosion explosion, whether he's moving
laterally, when whether he's moving on his

1315
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:25,760
back feet, he has been incredible. And with j Dubb, I think

1316
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:28,840
if he dig into it, some
people look at well his counting stats defensively

1317
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,359
or down. The difficulty of his
assignments is now harder and it feels like

1318
01:24:31,399 --> 01:24:35,800
he's just a much smarter defender in
terms of staying in front of guys who

1319
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:40,359
are attacking against him. Screen navigation
has gotten better to me. But then

1320
01:24:40,399 --> 01:24:43,760
also just I don't even want to
call the recovery so much as like the

1321
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:45,560
deliberate. Well, I'm gonna slide
my feet and I'm gonna give this guy

1322
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:49,279
the baseline or force him baseline,
or I know that I'm gonna be able

1323
01:24:49,279 --> 01:24:53,760
to contest his shot while being attached
to his back hip or the side of

1324
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:57,880
his hip. And it just feels
like his IQ is not that he was

1325
01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:00,680
dumb last year and make that clearer, but his I Hugh was just ratcheted

1326
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:04,600
up. I've been both ends of
the floor. Technically, I don't think

1327
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:08,479
he had Chet would have made second
team over him, but just because I

1328
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:10,720
haven't listed him second, I don't
know that he was my toughest snub,

1329
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:13,880
but he was someone who it's like, oh, the thunder just have three

1330
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:18,000
all defense candidates. Well, and
he didn't make either of our fictional third

1331
01:25:18,039 --> 01:25:21,239
teams, but SGA led the league
in steals by like a lot, and

1332
01:25:21,279 --> 01:25:26,000
there were a lot of people saying
this and was blocking shots one of the

1333
01:25:26,039 --> 01:25:28,720
better guard shop blockers in the league. There are gonna be people that are

1334
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:31,239
upset that the Thunder don't have four
guys being mentioned here, so I mentioned

1335
01:25:31,319 --> 01:25:35,520
him. SGA was a consideration for
me I have. Let's see, I

1336
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:40,640
had Dort on my third team,
my fictional third team. I think that's

1337
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:45,079
a real life third team who overlap
of yours. I didn't put Jalen Williams

1338
01:25:45,119 --> 01:25:48,039
just because I feel like I've exceeded
my quota of saying nice things about Jaylen

1339
01:25:48,079 --> 01:25:50,800
Williams on this podcast. So I'm
gonna take it easy for a while.

1340
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:54,760
I'll let it it's all reveal all
of yours. I'll let it slide.

1341
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,880
But the fact that you just picked
two players who are eligible to be on

1342
01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:01,520
the board team is not real.
Dan don't care, so you all Jane

1343
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:06,159
McDaniels and Isaac. Both Christops and
Isaac aren't eligible for the real I will

1344
01:26:06,199 --> 01:26:11,680
say he's one of my favorite writers. I'm not even gonna name him.

1345
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:15,359
But they were picking their all defense
teams for the Ringer, he wrote that

1346
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:18,199
he had Jonathan Isaac and he's not
ineligible, but that's a minor matter,

1347
01:26:18,399 --> 01:26:21,680
and I saw I was like,
that's not really a minor matter. You

1348
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:26,920
selected him for one of the all
defensive teams that he physically were literally can't

1349
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:31,279
we allowed a major matter? That's
why do you disagree with the criteria.

1350
01:26:31,359 --> 01:26:35,039
But it's just the criteria is the
criteria? Nope, that's why you That's

1351
01:26:35,039 --> 01:26:38,279
why you make up a third team
so you can get him on there,

1352
01:26:38,319 --> 01:26:41,680
just like again I did. So
I originally had poop emojis in the KP

1353
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:44,039
and Isaac spots, but then I
was like, yeah, that's the if

1354
01:26:44,039 --> 01:26:46,239
you put him on second team,
I might have left it. Yeah,

1355
01:26:46,319 --> 01:26:51,479
who are your other three? So
I also had I have Jane McDaniels on

1356
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:57,279
there, and then I have Drew
Holliday and Dylan Brooks. Which is wild

1357
01:26:57,319 --> 01:27:00,960
that that the Rockets were so good
on defense, And is there another candidate

1358
01:27:01,039 --> 01:27:05,319
other than Dylan Brooks? I mean
some people would say Van Vliet just because

1359
01:27:05,359 --> 01:27:09,239
he's such a terror on the ball
and has such good hands, but like,

1360
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:14,800
I mean not as han't played enough. Yeah there Tary Easton. Had

1361
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:18,000
he played enough that would have gotten
interesting then I mean, yeah, he

1362
01:27:18,039 --> 01:27:21,880
would have. He would have been
been up there too. Anyea, you

1363
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:27,720
got any other like honorable honorable mentions
he got any fourth teamers. I have

1364
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:30,840
a long list that I don't really
want to go through and name, but

1365
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:33,600
like Isaac Okorro was on it.
I had Jared Allen on my long list

1366
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:39,439
as well. I mean I have
a where's the document that I have with

1367
01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:41,840
all that. Did you have anyone
holiday? We haven't? Oh you put

1368
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:44,520
Drew on there? Good? I
didn't. I didn't have him on one

1369
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:48,680
of mine. Trying to think anybody
else we I mean like Asar Thompson,

1370
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:54,039
like had he had he qualified,
like that's I think he probably would have

1371
01:27:54,079 --> 01:27:56,920
made one of my teams just because
he was so disruptive early in the year.

1372
01:27:56,920 --> 01:28:00,840
If he'd sustained anything close to that. Yeah, I mean Jared Junior

1373
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:02,800
for most of the season, he
might have had a stronger case before the

1374
01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:06,640
end of it. That's someone who
definitely deserves like some type of a mention.

1375
01:28:08,119 --> 01:28:11,640
Oh like Chris Dunn, Dennis Smith
Junior, more guys that I think

1376
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:14,359
done probably didn't. I don't know
if either of them qualified, but they're

1377
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:19,239
They're not quite on the Caruso Suggs
Derek White level, but they're right right

1378
01:28:19,359 --> 01:28:24,439
behind that. I think in terms
of on ball guys. Yeah, there's

1379
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:26,920
I'm trying to think of there as
anyone else that I can't even find my

1380
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:30,319
list that I had a Oh is
this Nope, I have no idea what

1381
01:28:30,359 --> 01:28:31,399
it is. But yeah, there's
so many different ways that you could have

1382
01:28:31,399 --> 01:28:34,760
got. I mean, who's that. I feel like we're forgetting someone major

1383
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:40,239
that maybe should have been included,
like in the I mean Giannis, if

1384
01:28:40,239 --> 01:28:43,159
you wanted to mention it. Yeah, yeah, the honest is someone we

1385
01:28:43,159 --> 01:28:46,359
should have thought about. I think
we got most of them we got.

1386
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:49,119
I don't. I mean, certainly
like our first and second teams. I

1387
01:28:49,159 --> 01:28:53,680
feel like there's no one we grossly
overlooked. I will say, when you

1388
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:57,880
kind of look at the top defensive
teams, so we had you didn't even

1389
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:02,560
have a rocket on there. We
only mentioned one Pelican and they are sixth

1390
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:06,479
in points allowed per possession. We
didn't have anyone from Cleveland make it and

1391
01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:12,319
the So it's interesting that so many
of the like the top, I don't

1392
01:29:12,319 --> 01:29:15,600
think we had multi So Oklahoma City, you had multiple players, Oh no,

1393
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:17,560
you didn't. We all each only
had one thunder player. No we

1394
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:21,880
had two. Oh that's right,
we only had Yeah, they could have

1395
01:29:23,039 --> 01:29:27,920
four. So it's interesting how that
works. I don't know if that's that

1396
01:29:28,079 --> 01:29:30,840
just might say more about how they're
defending by committee, But I don't think

1397
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:34,600
it's a coincidence. When you look
at it for Houston and New Orleans specifically,

1398
01:29:35,119 --> 01:29:40,000
it's the teams that are kind of
absent of these elite rim protectors.

1399
01:29:41,279 --> 01:29:45,079
Yeah, that's I mean, that
makes that problem that goes back, by

1400
01:29:45,079 --> 01:29:46,239
the way, deserves a none will
mention for all defense too. He would

1401
01:29:46,279 --> 01:29:51,720
be there. Would Jimmy Butler this
season have gotten an HM or an HM

1402
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:56,920
for you if he'd played enough games? Probably not No, in the playoff

1403
01:29:56,960 --> 01:30:00,880
Jimmy might uh but yeah, I
don't know how I feel about that.

1404
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:02,960
By the way that he's I find
it very entertaining. But there's just something,

1405
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:08,600
Oh, by the way, big
snub here because the statistics would demand

1406
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:14,319
it. Isaiah Hartenstein, Yeah,
you know what that is? Who I

1407
01:30:14,319 --> 01:30:16,119
mean, since I have two non
qualified players on my third team, I

1408
01:30:16,159 --> 01:30:19,800
could probably kick one of them off
because he did he did meet the criteria

1409
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:25,800
right, like through a weird loophole. No, well, not a loophole.

1410
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,520
I mean he's played in seventy four
games. I thought he had too

1411
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:33,680
many games of like too few minutes. Oh okay, yeah, og and

1412
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:36,920
he played the entire season. Oh
we didn't mention. Two names that need

1413
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:42,439
to stand out Nikhil Alexander Walker,
who I think has a case. I

1414
01:30:42,439 --> 01:30:45,840
know we both had Jayden on here, like you probably make a case that

1415
01:30:45,159 --> 01:30:48,039
I think I'm just too far.
It's cute on Jayden, but he if

1416
01:30:48,079 --> 01:30:51,159
you had him on your second team, I wouldn't quibble. And the other

1417
01:30:51,159 --> 01:30:57,640
one Draymond Yeah, I mean again
didn't qualify, but like in terms of

1418
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:00,399
he's not what he was, but
he's still well not what he was,

1419
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:04,039
still better than most. How about
that Anthony Edwards, Like for the last

1420
01:31:04,079 --> 01:31:08,199
five minutes of games, that version
of him I think would be up there

1421
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:14,640
honestly. Kawhi Leonard Yeah, yeah, wow, we went all this way

1422
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:16,600
with no this is the first Kawhi
mentioned that might be a little bit of

1423
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:20,199
an oversight. You can you talk
about a defense when it came to the

1424
01:31:20,279 --> 01:31:26,800
you know his all NBA case for
Yeah again though, like who you kicking

1425
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:29,399
off from your first your first and
second team for any of these, I

1426
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:31,560
don't think. I don't think any
of them. And I'm also so looking

1427
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:34,520
at the I mean the Rockets.
It's just we kind of said it at

1428
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:38,279
Tarry Easton played more maybe and Thompson
played more. But you said freed van

1429
01:31:38,359 --> 01:31:44,079
Fleet. Who would be your second
nomination for the Pelicans? Does Dyson Daniels

1430
01:31:44,119 --> 01:31:45,800
maybe? Yeah, before his injury. That's a that's a good one.

1431
01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:49,439
I mean maybe, No, that's
gonna skew way too. They just fell

1432
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:54,000
really well as a team just from
the I mean zion the past couple of

1433
01:31:54,039 --> 01:31:56,159
months. But what England was doing, even what c. J. McCollum

1434
01:31:56,159 --> 01:32:00,159
has done, Murphy, I think
they the Pelicans was just the ultimate like

1435
01:32:00,279 --> 01:32:02,600
by committee thing. There's just they
got eleven or twelve guys that can all

1436
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:13,319
play like That's just that's how it
goes. Time for stat padding. We're

1437
01:32:13,319 --> 01:32:16,359
gonna do a couple of guests of
players. Grant, do you want to

1438
01:32:16,399 --> 01:32:19,600
go first? We'll altern eight.
Yes, this is for you, Dan.

1439
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:27,000
This is from Rubikscal who number one. The different format for the clues

1440
01:32:27,039 --> 01:32:30,720
here, so just you know,
be on your toes. June two thousand

1441
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:36,039
and four, Drafted by the New
York Knicks. I want to guess June

1442
01:32:36,039 --> 01:32:42,560
two thousand and four. No,
I don't want to, just I feel

1443
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:48,960
like it's already gonna make me sad. Was that David Lee? It is

1444
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:51,199
not David Lee. I don't know. I can't remember what year he was,

1445
01:32:51,319 --> 01:32:54,880
remember what year he was either.
But you're in the neighborhood though.

1446
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:59,279
I mean, I think, hey, he's Caucasian. I don't know.

1447
01:32:59,239 --> 01:33:00,840
No, no, in terms of
draft year, I'm not giving you any

1448
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:04,920
deliberate hints here. Clue number two
February two thousand and six, traded with

1449
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:13,600
Penny Hardaway to Orlando for Steve Francis. Wait So, traded with Penny Hardaway

1450
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:19,800
to Orlando. So he wasn't on
the Knicks then, because he was drafted

1451
01:33:19,800 --> 01:33:24,319
by the Knicks and he was traded. Steve Francis ended up on the Knicks,

1452
01:33:24,319 --> 01:33:28,840
but they didn't have Penny Hardaway at
that point. Sought traded with Penny

1453
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:34,079
Hardaway for Steve Francis. Okay,
I got nothing, Keep going, okay.

1454
01:33:34,119 --> 01:33:39,199
Clue number three November two thousand and
seven, traded to Lakers for Brian

1455
01:33:39,319 --> 01:33:45,479
Cook and Maurice Evans. Nope,
got nothing, okay. Clue number four

1456
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:49,119
August twenty ten, part of a
four team trade involving Troy Murphy, Courtney

1457
01:33:49,199 --> 01:33:58,079
Lee, Darren Collison and James Posey. Nothing okay. Clue number five June

1458
01:33:58,119 --> 01:34:04,119
twenty twelve, traded to Washington along
with a Mecca okaphor for Rishard Lewis traded

1459
01:34:04,199 --> 01:34:15,479
to Washington with a Mecca Oka four
or Roshard of Lewis traded to Washington with

1460
01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:26,159
a Mecca Oka four nothing okay.
July twenty fourteen, three team trade involving

1461
01:34:26,239 --> 01:34:33,760
Omer Ashik and Omri Caspy, among
others. That's a tough one, is

1462
01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:38,319
this? Like I'm gonna start naming
players that got traded a lot. Luke

1463
01:34:38,319 --> 01:34:40,319
Gridden, how Er, Drew Gooden. I don't think any of those guys

1464
01:34:40,319 --> 01:34:43,399
are drafted by the Knicks. It
is not Luke, Gridinower or Drew Gooden.

1465
01:34:44,359 --> 01:34:48,840
Uh. You know the next one, sure, December twenty eighteen traded

1466
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:55,359
to Washington for Kelly Ubre Junior and
Austin Rivers. Oh my godsh you know

1467
01:34:55,399 --> 01:35:02,600
this one traded to Washington Kelly uber
Junior and Austin Rivers. This is the

1468
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:05,800
one. I should know. This
is the one. You should know.

1469
01:35:06,159 --> 01:35:15,039
I'm impressive if you get it off. This one traded to Washington. No,

1470
01:35:15,119 --> 01:35:18,159
he was involved in It's not Courtnelly
Courtney Lee. Right, he was

1471
01:35:18,199 --> 01:35:27,199
traded with Courtney Lee at one point, traded to Washington. Who is it

1472
01:35:27,239 --> 01:35:34,880
again? To Washington for Kelly Ubre
Junior and Austin Rivers. I'm gonna be

1473
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:41,159
so mad when I don't get this. Carry on. January twenty twenty,

1474
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:48,000
traded with Wyyan Gabriel for Kent Bazemore
and Anthony Tolliver. Okay, so you

1475
01:35:48,079 --> 01:35:53,680
roll that back. Some of these
I do not remember at all. January

1476
01:35:53,680 --> 01:36:00,479
twenty twenty traded with Wyyan Gabriel for
Kent Bazmore and Anthony Tolliver. Yeah,

1477
01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:03,640
I got a lot, Okay.
November twenty twenty, Now we're getting multiple

1478
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:08,880
trades in a year. Traded with
Isaiah. Traded with Isaiah Stewart to Rockets

1479
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:13,319
for Roco. That can't be the
Isaiah Stewart, can't it. That doesn't

1480
01:36:13,399 --> 01:36:16,760
make sense. That doesn't check out
anyway. He got traded to the Rockets

1481
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:24,279
for Covington. But he got traded
with Isaiah Stewart. Yeah, you looked

1482
01:36:24,279 --> 01:36:28,199
at one up. I don't know, so you might want to take me

1483
01:36:28,239 --> 01:36:30,039
to the next clue. All right, we'll go to the next one.

1484
01:36:30,079 --> 01:36:32,880
You got a couple more here,
still in November twenty twenty, a three

1485
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:42,359
team trade involving DeLong Wright, James
Johnson, and Justin Jackson. Now March

1486
01:36:42,399 --> 01:36:54,880
twenty twenty one, traded to Miami
for Meers Leonard April twenty two, waived

1487
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:59,520
by the Lakers. Yeah, just
give me it. I'm done. I

1488
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:01,000
would say, hey, this is
someone I'll try to help you out here.

1489
01:37:01,039 --> 01:37:09,560
This is someone I associate with the
hardened Rockets and also the Lakers.

1490
01:37:10,279 --> 01:37:15,359
Trevor Reza. That is correct,
huh oh four by the Knicks and then

1491
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:18,079
the yeah, I don't know.
I think if you're gonna get this,

1492
01:37:18,159 --> 01:37:20,359
you're gonna get it on some of
those early ones. But that's no,

1493
01:37:20,439 --> 01:37:24,279
I should have known. Ubre one
is the one that I should have known.

1494
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:29,039
What's the so the Ubra one is
he went to Washington for Oh yeah,

1495
01:37:29,119 --> 01:37:33,279
Ubra was geez in Austin Rivers.
Who hasn't he been traded for?

1496
01:37:34,039 --> 01:37:39,319
H yes it is? Uh,
let's see to commit's to commemorate the second

1497
01:37:39,359 --> 01:37:42,760
anniversary the only time he's ever been
waived on April seven, twenty twenty two,

1498
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:45,000
we celebrate the player who's been traded
more than anyone else. Trevor Reza

1499
01:37:45,399 --> 01:37:49,399
didn't quite beat ridden hours five teams
in six days record, but for a

1500
01:37:49,399 --> 01:37:53,399
brief period in November twenty twenty,
he got real close. Yeah, I

1501
01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:57,520
forgot. He got flipped and flipped
and flipped in twenty twenty. I right

1502
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:02,439
one from Austin for you. Yeah, David West, no clue number one.

1503
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:06,239
I was drafted in twenty ten.
That can't be its own clue.

1504
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:11,840
We need more specifics when these things
are coming. Yeah, I'm really bad

1505
01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:15,720
at I need like context because I
couldn't. I can't remember who was the

1506
01:38:15,720 --> 01:38:17,119
first pick in twenty ten. If
he gave me like one pick, I

1507
01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:20,359
drafted in the top like eighteen or
something or something like. I don't know.

1508
01:38:20,640 --> 01:38:24,359
Yeah, all right, I'm not
getting it off that one clue too.

1509
01:38:24,399 --> 01:38:27,079
I am one of three players from
my draft class who are still currently

1510
01:38:27,119 --> 01:38:35,000
playing in the NBA or NBA G
League. M now we're talking three players

1511
01:38:35,039 --> 01:38:41,359
from the G league. Thing is
this feels like a feels like a hint?

1512
01:38:41,399 --> 01:38:44,039
All right, I'm not going to
get it off of that one clue.

1513
01:38:44,079 --> 01:38:45,960
Three. I've played for eight different
teams, but more notably, played

1514
01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:53,680
for one of these teams three different
times. Oh, these teams three different

1515
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:57,720
times. Is this Lance Steve Do
we do Lance Stevenson? Oh did we?

1516
01:38:58,079 --> 01:39:00,000
Yeah? We didn't. No,
I got it. I nailed it.

1517
01:39:00,079 --> 01:39:03,079
I'm that good you did? We
did this one specifically? Yeah,

1518
01:39:03,119 --> 01:39:06,520
because the last clues about him blowing
in Lebron's ear. Oh yeah, you're

1519
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:09,680
right. But maybe I don't.
I thought I had got it based on

1520
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:15,800
his rap career clue. I think
last time. Uh wait, you got

1521
01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:19,319
it? What didn't? Isn't there
a clue about like his rap career or

1522
01:39:19,359 --> 01:39:25,079
something? Players I dabbling a music
career along with basketball. I thought we

1523
01:39:25,159 --> 01:39:31,920
did. Uh Honestly, I made
a guest appearance on the Maybe I didn't

1524
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:33,880
give you this one, So this
is the other one. Maybe I didn't

1525
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:38,000
give you all right, let's see
from Austin. Well, I've played for

1526
01:39:38,079 --> 01:39:40,880
multiple teams. I most notably remember
for my time with one team where I

1527
01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:45,920
was a multi time All Star and
achieved All NBA status. I'm not getting

1528
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:49,279
that one clue too. The team
I played the most for came to a

1529
01:39:49,319 --> 01:39:53,000
sad end for fans when I decided
I wanted to be traded to Miami,

1530
01:39:53,079 --> 01:39:58,920
only to end up being traded somewhere
else. Is this Damian Lillard No,

1531
01:40:00,359 --> 01:40:09,039
I wanted to be traded in Miami, but went somewhere else. Uh A

1532
01:40:09,079 --> 01:40:14,439
bunch of teams, but I'm all
starting an all NBA guy. I feel

1533
01:40:14,479 --> 01:40:17,880
like I still don't have enough information. Clu three. Like many NBA players,

1534
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:25,119
I dabble in a music career along
with basketball. I don't know.

1535
01:40:26,119 --> 01:40:29,720
Clue four. I wanted seven players
to be drafted top five for my college.

1536
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:32,399
More notably, one of two drafted
top five for my college during my

1537
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:40,039
draft class. One more time.
Well, basically, he's one of two

1538
01:40:40,079 --> 01:40:45,800
players who were drafted inside of the
top five from his college during his draft

1539
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:49,600
year. So two guys went in
the top five from the same as college.

1540
01:40:49,920 --> 01:41:00,760
He's one of them. Yep,
is this uh John Wall now?

1541
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:03,439
Five? Oh, go ahead?
No, No, I was just talking

1542
01:41:03,439 --> 01:41:06,920
to myself. Clue five. It
was rubored. I turned down one hundred

1543
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:11,880
plus million dollar extension and eighty million
dollar extension from two different teams. On

1544
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:15,159
it'll wind up making less than half
that amount for the remainder of my career.

1545
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:24,880
Oh mmm, you'll get it on
one of these three final clues.

1546
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:30,039
If that's yeah, I feel like
I should get it here. Neurlean's Noel

1547
01:41:30,520 --> 01:41:33,239
no oh, damn it. Clue
six. I made a guest appearance on

1548
01:41:33,279 --> 01:41:41,319
the Fox TV show The Masked Singer. This is gonna shock you, Dan,

1549
01:41:41,399 --> 01:41:45,000
but I'm not a regular Masked Singer
watcher. I think you'll get it

1550
01:41:45,039 --> 01:41:47,520
on this one. Clue seven,
I participated in the twenty eighteen Dunk Contest

1551
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:55,479
hashtag Wakonda Forever? Oh who did
that? That is, in fact what

1552
01:41:55,479 --> 01:42:02,720
we're trying to figure out here,
man, it's Oh, it's Victor Oladipot.

1553
01:42:03,399 --> 01:42:08,880
Correct. The last clue was I
played college at Are you who who's

1554
01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:13,640
the other top five pick from Indiana
with him? I mean, I guess

1555
01:42:13,680 --> 01:42:18,000
I couldn't know, not off hand. Let's see that draft. So what

1556
01:42:18,159 --> 01:42:26,079
years Victor Oldeople drafted? Was that
way too long ago? Well? Twenty

1557
01:42:26,159 --> 01:42:31,880
thirteen wasn't much better. But the
other one was oh Cody Zeller Wow?

1558
01:42:32,079 --> 01:42:36,960
Okay, do you have another one
for me? Or yes? I do?

1559
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:43,520
This is from from beer Rich Clue
number one. I was drafted in

1560
01:42:43,600 --> 01:42:46,279
the lottery in two thousand and five
and went on to finish fourth in Rookie

1561
01:42:46,319 --> 01:42:51,439
of the Year voting. I was
drafted fourth overall, So you said no

1562
01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:57,119
in the lottery five, but was
fourth and Rookie of the year. All

1563
01:42:57,199 --> 01:43:00,880
right, so number two. In
my fourteen year career, I made the

1564
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:10,439
playoffs eight times, only once making
it past the first round. Okay,

1565
01:43:10,479 --> 01:43:15,119
Never in my fourteen year career did
I eclipse a fifty percent effective field goal

1566
01:43:15,159 --> 01:43:18,560
percentage in a season. My career
three point percentage was thirty two point nine

1567
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:24,960
percent. Not shockingly, I was
never an all star from the two thousand

1568
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:30,399
and five draft class. In the
lottery sucks, sounds like or very inefficient

1569
01:43:30,399 --> 01:43:33,199
shooter sucks. But played fourteen years
and was fourth in Rookie of the year.

1570
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:36,079
Oh yeah, wow, probably about
the rookie of the year one.

1571
01:43:38,720 --> 01:43:43,239
All right, there yon a prototypical
some would say throwback point guard. I

1572
01:43:43,239 --> 01:43:45,640
made a habit of showing up to
training camp out of shape. In fact,

1573
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:50,920
Bleacher Report once ran a piece titled
blank is Tired of being called Fat?

1574
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:58,479
Two thousand and five is too early
for Raymond Felton. Right, it

1575
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:01,119
is not too early for Raymond felt. You have correctly guessed Raymond Felton.

1576
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:06,439
Okay, let's see, there are
only two more clues, so you needed

1577
01:44:06,439 --> 01:44:10,520
to get it on that one sixth
season, the Nicks signed me as a

1578
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:13,680
free agent then traded me seven months
later. That you might have got it

1579
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:15,960
there. Took the Nuggets four months
to get sick of me and trade me

1580
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:19,479
to the Blazers, who subsequently traded
me thirteen months later back to the Knicks.

1581
01:44:21,279 --> 01:44:25,000
Once hitting my thirties, I became
a bench contributor for Dallas, the

1582
01:44:25,039 --> 01:44:29,159
Clippers, and okay, see,
I still couldn't shoot for shit. I

1583
01:44:29,159 --> 01:44:31,000
didn't really field goal percenters was that
low? By the way, I didn't

1584
01:44:31,000 --> 01:44:35,159
either. I needed the fat clue
to get there more so than the three

1585
01:44:35,159 --> 01:44:41,800
point shooting clue. Let me give
you one from Mike all right. Clue

1586
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:49,560
one. I was drafted by the
Sonics but never played for them. Okay,

1587
01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:54,039
I'm not getting it off of that
one clue too. I made my

1588
01:44:54,159 --> 01:44:58,000
NBA debut with the Lakers in my
rookie season after my rights were traded at

1589
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:04,159
the deadline for Sam Perkins. So
Perkins, so we know when this is

1590
01:45:04,359 --> 01:45:16,039
Perkins to the Sonics for this guy
the Lakers, I don't have it.

1591
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:20,039
Clu three. I was used so
sparingly by LA as a rookie that in

1592
01:45:20,119 --> 01:45:29,359
my pro debut the last name on
my jersey was misspelled oh man. That

1593
01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:36,359
that should do it? Okay?
Sorry, next clue. After my second

1594
01:45:36,439 --> 01:45:39,840
season, I was traded to the
Knicks for two second round picks. But

1595
01:45:39,880 --> 01:45:44,279
New York is not the team many
associate we associate me with. Excuse me

1596
01:45:44,319 --> 01:45:47,720
as my only accomplishments during this time
were being in a ninety six dunk contest

1597
01:45:47,720 --> 01:45:53,640
and requesting a trade after I couldn't
crack Don Nelson's rotation. Side note,

1598
01:45:53,680 --> 01:45:58,760
I bet you forgot Don Nelson coached
the Knicks. Okay? Do I get

1599
01:45:58,760 --> 01:46:01,319
points for remembering Don and coached the
Knicks? Yeah, we can move on.

1600
01:46:01,399 --> 01:46:11,479
That counts six dunk contest? Oh
Man Sonics, but never a Sonic

1601
01:46:12,039 --> 01:46:20,680
Lakers Nicks? Uh? Okay,
next clue please. I was traded to

1602
01:46:20,760 --> 01:46:25,279
one of the new Canadian expansion teams
in nineteen ninety six in the deadline,

1603
01:46:25,359 --> 01:46:28,600
and despite the team being terrible,
we did beat the seventy two win Bulls

1604
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:32,560
and I was matched on Michael Jordan
for most of that game. Oh wow,

1605
01:46:33,359 --> 01:46:45,920
So Lakers Knicks either Grizzlies or Raptors
and a good dunker. Oh I

1606
01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:48,159
did not know he was in the
ninety six dunk contest If that's any consolation?

1607
01:46:48,399 --> 01:46:53,479
Yeah, I mean I can't even
remember who was in that was Kobe

1608
01:46:53,479 --> 01:47:00,560
in that one? Not Kobe?
No wonder, that was not a Gooby.

1609
01:47:00,640 --> 01:47:04,199
Guess pretty sure I remember Kobe not
playing for the Knicks. You don't

1610
01:47:04,199 --> 01:47:10,680
think you don't remember Kobe playing in
Canada? Yeah that too? Oh man,

1611
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:14,560
I feel like, well, it's
a Raptor a Grizzly, and odds

1612
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:18,439
are it's more likely a Raptor because
they would have played the Bulls more than

1613
01:47:18,439 --> 01:47:25,199
the Grizzly. I got nothing clue
six, there's twelve clues, so okay.

1614
01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:28,680
My first whole season north of the
border led me to finishing second and

1615
01:47:28,800 --> 01:47:31,199
most Improved Player voting the year after
I was part of their first ever playoff

1616
01:47:31,239 --> 01:47:43,960
team. Hmm, well that sure
feels like the Raptors ninety seven Raptors Most

1617
01:47:44,039 --> 01:47:50,920
Improved Sonics to Lakers to Knicks.
This guy did play for the Lakers.

1618
01:47:50,920 --> 01:47:57,039
We established that, Yeah he did, Yes, so like Knicks. Raptors

1619
01:47:57,079 --> 01:48:00,840
makes me want to say Marcus Camby, But that is not a dunk contest

1620
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:04,680
person or a Laker, So that's
I guess I need more information. In

1621
01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:10,600
two thousand, I was traded straight
up for Corliss Williamson aka for anyone who

1622
01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:17,640
cares big nasty AKA never scoreless corl
Less. I was, so, what

1623
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:25,760
is he going from Toronto to the
Kings? Maybe I got I don't got

1624
01:48:25,800 --> 01:48:29,880
it Clue eight. I was part
of the most controversial playoff game in NBA

1625
01:48:30,079 --> 01:48:40,119
history in two thousand and two.
Okay, oh is Doug Christie correct?

1626
01:48:40,279 --> 01:48:44,760
Nice job the other clues. In
two thousand and three, in a preseason

1627
01:48:44,800 --> 01:48:46,479
game, Rick fox elbowed me in
the face, so I uppercuted the shit

1628
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:50,159
out of him, leading mission the
hallway wlu ten. I was traded to

1629
01:48:50,239 --> 01:48:54,119
Orlando in two thousand and five for
Katino Mobley and Michael Bradley, but my

1630
01:48:54,119 --> 01:48:56,840
ankle was so messed up. I
only played in twenty one games before getting

1631
01:48:56,840 --> 01:48:59,880
cut. I saw it with the
MAVs the following season, only played seven

1632
01:49:00,039 --> 01:49:01,840
games before getting cut. I signed
a ten day with the Clippers and played

1633
01:49:01,840 --> 01:49:05,439
seven more games before retiring. Since
I retired, I've had my own reality

1634
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:09,520
show on b et in which had
showed how my wife and I ballanced family

1635
01:49:09,560 --> 01:49:15,439
and celebrity rife. It was canceled
after one season. I was a King's

1636
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:18,039
commentator before being hired by Mike Brown
to be an assistant head coach is the

1637
01:49:18,079 --> 01:49:20,479
fine? What's the fine? Okay? Yeah, I see those. That's

1638
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:24,039
how you do it because those clues, if you're not getting it on those

1639
01:49:24,079 --> 01:49:26,880
last couple of clues, you're really
blowing it. I like that. They

1640
01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:30,000
got to like you're definitely getting it
later, so it feels good if you

1641
01:49:30,039 --> 01:49:31,720
get it before those ones. You
want to take us out of here,

1642
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:35,920
sure, everybody. Thank you for
the clue contributions or guests player contributions.

1643
01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:42,880
Thanks for listening. Please to grow
the audience, great review, subscribe,

1644
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:45,640
tell your friends, spread the word
about the podcast. If you want to

1645
01:49:45,680 --> 01:49:48,079
join our discord to submit guests of
players, the link for that is in

1646
01:49:48,119 --> 01:49:53,000
the YouTube and podcast descriptions, as
is the link for some merch and supporting

1647
01:49:53,039 --> 01:49:56,439
some two nights. Yeah, I
think it's gonna cover it. Thanks again.

1648
01:49:58,039 --> 01:50:00,600
Shout out as always to the one
and only Frank Millikena apologies, Jared Allen