WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:10.160 Hi, This is Jan Pritzker and this is Gary Leland, and you're listening 2 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:14.640 to the episode one forty of the Crypto Cousins podcast. Beat your interest in 3 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:21.079 bitcoin and cryptocurrencies by joining Hall of Fame podcaster Gary Leland on the Crypto Cousins 4 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:27.120 Podcast. And remember we are all cousins in the world of crypto. This 5 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:32.200 week's price of bitcoin nine thousand, four hundred and seventy seven dollars. That's 6 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:36.920 up six hundred and eighty two dollars, are seven point seven percent over the 7 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:40.399 past seven days. Howdy, Howdy, howdy, Yan, Welcome to the 8 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.679 show. Thanks, thanks for having me here. Gary real excited. Yeah. 9 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:48.439 I just finished your book recently, and I know you sent me copies 10 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:52.520 like a year ago. It took me a long time to get to it, 11 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:55.000 but I got to it and I went right through it. That's a 12 00:00:55.240 --> 00:01:00.359 great book. And casehall aren't familiar. Jan wrote the book inventing bit Coin, 13 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.040 and we got a lot to talk about that. Before we get into 14 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:07.200 that, though, tell us a little bit about your background, a short 15 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:10.400 bio if you would. Yeah, my bio is kind of complicated. I 16 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:11.640 don't know if we can keep it short, but I'll try. I've been 17 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:15.879 a technology person and a startup person for the last twenty years. I've been 18 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:19.799 doing a lot of startups. But I'm also a former immigrant from the former 19 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.000 Soviet Union, So I came over to the United States in nineteen eighty nine. 20 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:26.319 I was just seven years old. Came with my parents and my sister, 21 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.920 and I grew up doing you know, computer stuff, and eventually ended 22 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:36.439 up doing startups and went through about six different startups over the last twenty years. 23 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:42.079 The last one was called Reverb. Reverb was co founded in twenty twelve 24 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:46.239 along with David Colt, who was the founder, and him and I built 25 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.719 out Reverb to be the best place for musicians to buy and sell gear, 26 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:53.519 and pretty much over the next you know, six years, we went from 27 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:57.519 just the two of us to about one hundred and fifty employees doing about five 28 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:01.680 hundred million dollars in sales, and it just became this huge thing. And 29 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:05.959 meantime, as I was, you know, doing the Reverb thing is kind 30 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:09.360 of my full time gig, I was getting really interested in bitcoin. Got 31 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:15.039 kind of fell down the bitcoin rabbit hole in twenty sixteen and spent a couple 32 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:20.560 of years just you know podcasts, books, youtubees, and by the twenty 33 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:23.280 eighteen I just felt like that was the most important thing I could work on. 34 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:28.120 So I ended up leaving Reverb in twenty eighteen in order to be a 35 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:30.759 part of the bitcoin space, not really knowing what I was going to do, 36 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:35.360 but that's kind of how I started my journey. So you got in 37 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.240 in sixteen, so you got into the well at a really good price. 38 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:43.719 I guess it. Well, technically I got in in twenty eleven, except 39 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:46.439 for in twenty eleven I bought bitcoin at the top, which was thirty bucks, 40 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:50.439 and my god, you got ripped off, I know. And you 41 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:53.159 know what else happened afterwards? I sold the bottom two dollars, so I 42 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:58.120 did the classic I did the classic move of buying the top and selling the 43 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:00.639 bottom. I didn't know the first thing about trading. I wasn't even trading 44 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:04.479 stocks at that point. I think I had just do I had some Apple 45 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.960 shares or something, but pretty much bought the top, sold the bottom. 46 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:12.759 Didn't know what what I got into. And twenty thirteen, same thing happened 47 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:15.879 to me. Because it was in the media again and again, I remembered 48 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:19.960 bitcoin was interesting. I didn't know what it was. So I'm very embarrassed 49 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.479 about this because, you know, being a technology person, I should have 50 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:24.919 at least researched it and understood it and read the white paper. I did 51 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:27.879 none of those things. I didn't even know there was a white paper. 52 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.039 I literally just heard there are some people building a payment system. I thought 53 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:35.560 it was a payment system, which it turned out not to be, and 54 00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:38.960 then I bought some just in case. But it turned out that I didn't 55 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:42.840 invest my time until really twenty sixteen came around. Hopefully in twenty sixteen, 56 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:46.000 you held on to it. This time I did. Was the first time 57 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:51.520 I actually actually stuck because I had more conviction around what it was after having 58 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.159 understood it. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Now, you said 59 00:03:53.199 --> 00:04:00.599 you immigrated from Russia, but you were very young when your family to move 60 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:04.000 here from Russia. Do you remember anything about the mother land there? Yeah? 61 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:08.479 It was seven and uh, you know, I I remember a little 62 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:10.680 bit. I remember, you know, I was a kid, So I 63 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:14.080 remember my childhood as most kids do, pretty fondly. I didn't have any 64 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:18.439 real issues other than maybe than some some bullying anti Semitism, which is you 65 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:21.879 know, common in Russia. Um, but you know, my childhood was 66 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:27.680 normal, and it wasn't really until we got to America and experienced what it 67 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:30.839 looks like in a capitalist country with like actual abundance and grocery stores and stuff 68 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:35.480 like that, that we finally understood like what we had been like basically that 69 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:40.000 we had been lied to around you know, what life is supposed to be 70 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.720 like, because in Russia, you know, in Soviet Union, you hear 71 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:46.000 about it. There was there's food shortages, there's readlines, um, there 72 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:51.800 was shortages of basic goods and obviously like nobody made any money. And uh, 73 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:56.560 the only you know that it was interesting about that experience after I got 74 00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:00.399 into bitcoin is I finally understood what the purpose of dick. And it was 75 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.360 after I talked to my parents about our experience, because it turns out that 76 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:08.879 when we left the Soviet Union, we weren't able to keep our money because 77 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:12.879 there were capital controls, so you couldn't own us dollars, and the government 78 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:15.959 allowed us to take one hundred dollars per person, and that's what they exchanged 79 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:18.759 for us, you know, from Soviet rubles to dollars. So we left 80 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:24.920 the country with four hundred dollars in our pocket. So on the leaving with 81 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:30.600 the four hundred dollars? Is that because well, I know it's because it 82 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.319 was the law, But is that because you had to You can't exchange rubles 83 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:38.560 anywhere else and you couldn't sneak them out right, so you could exchange them 84 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.040 on the street. But the street exchange rate was different from the government exchange 85 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:45.160 rate, similar to what you might hear about in Venezuela or Argentina or other 86 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.839 countries that have capital controls. Usually the government has this official exchange rate, 87 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:51.240 right, so it might be like ten to one, but on the street 88 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:55.399 it might be one hundred to one. So that means our rubles are basically 89 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:59.399 worthless, like nobody actually wanted them. Why would you exchange rubles which were 90 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:02.839 basically currency for the US dollar, which is something that everybody wanted, right 91 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:06.040 The US dollars wasn't high demand in Russia even though it was actually illegal to 92 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:10.720 own, so people use it for bribes, people use it to store value 93 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:13.759 because that was the only currency they could get their hands on that held any 94 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:17.240 value. So nobody wanted the Soviet currency because it was completely government control, 95 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:23.160 so there was obviously the price of it is not real if no one wants 96 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:26.079 their currency, which you know, I realized no one wants. I'm not 97 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.720 doubting that. I'm not arguing that point. Why do they care if you 98 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:31.279 take it? No, No, they don't care. I mean, I'm 99 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:33.920 just saying they wouldn't. It's not that they were trying to take it. 100 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:38.120 Is that we wanted dollars the government. Yeah, no, the government. 101 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:40.319 We wanted dollars to leave the country, right, we wanted to go to 102 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:43.160 America. With dollars. You could take all the rubles what you wanted. 103 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:45.720 Yeah, but they would well, you just weren't really good. We had 104 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.800 to cash him in. It's like in Russia for nothing. Yeah, basically 105 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:53.519 they were usefully you know, worthless. So and I don't know if it's 106 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:55.639 true if we could take the rubles with us or not. I'm not sure 107 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:59.040 what the actual policy on that was, but I do know that US dollar 108 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:02.560 ownership was illegal other than you know, through official channels right when you first 109 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:06.600 got here or your parents. I guess you've talked to them about this now 110 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:10.160 that you're kind of into money. You know, when once you get into 111 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:15.040 bigcoin, you start exploring money and what money is and the history of money 112 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:17.600 there's a lot of information about money that we just don't know, yep, 113 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:21.120 because we just spend it and don't know what it is or what it's backed 114 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:26.360 by or anything like that. So I assume once you started getting into bigcoin 115 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:28.800 of money, you started asking them a lot of questions about what it was 116 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:33.000 like under a socialist economy, and they've told you stories about their lives here. 117 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:38.000 You know, I see now a big move in the United States towards 118 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:43.680 my young people towards socialism. Being an old guy sixty five years old, 119 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:47.319 you know, I was always taught that socialism, communism was the worst thing 120 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.279 that could happen to the world, you know, as a kid. I 121 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:54.160 mean, we were just told that over and over and over, and so 122 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:57.839 I still probably have a lot of that in my thought patterns when I think 123 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:03.319 about things. But I'm curious, how did your parents someone who fled socialism, 124 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:05.920 who knew exactly what it was and then came and if who lived here 125 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:09.399 for a long time, probably lived here for a long time before you talk 126 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:13.759 to him about money. Oh yeah, what were their thoughts on socialism versus 127 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:18.839 or communism or whatever versus a free market? Yeah, I mean, obviously 128 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:22.959 you know, when you leave an environment like the Soviet Union where there's basically 129 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:28.319 shortages and scarcity of goods, and it's not like there were scarcity of resources. 130 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.840 It was all because they were badly allocated. You know, people were 131 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:35.639 doing things because the prices were fixed that they didn't know if they were to 132 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.559 produce more of something or less of something. So it was not a good 133 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:43.080 situation. And when we got to America, it was very abundant. You 134 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:48.000 know a lot of Russian immigrants will tell you that their first memory of America 135 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:52.440 is like walking into a grocery store and seeing, you know, twenty varieties 136 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.399 of bread, Like that's an unimaginable idea in a socialist economy. So you 137 00:08:56.440 --> 00:09:01.000 see that kind of variety and abundance, and you know, you're pretty much 138 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.799 instantly sold. So you know, obviously my parents have a pretty strong aversion 139 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:09.279 to the idea of socialism communism. Are they still alive, Yeah, Yeah, 140 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.559 they're alive and wall and h they're very they're very active for their age. 141 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.120 My my dad actually client mom on Everest just ten years ago. It 142 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:22.080 was fifty three at the time, so I'm sixty five. Your dad, 143 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:26.240 yeah, he's your age. Yeah, exactly, and my mom is just 144 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:30.240 a few years younger. But um, you know, they they obviously, 145 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.480 I think a lot of Russian immigrants will tell you, like they don't like 146 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.720 where this country is headed. They're very concerned about the socialist tendencies that are 147 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.919 arising. You know, I kind of my circle of friends is pretty liberal. 148 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.440 I would say so in my circle of friends, you know, there's 149 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:48.679 certain there's always certain like well meaning things that people want, you know, 150 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:50.240 like we should take care of our our fellow man and all that kind of 151 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.720 stuff. Um, there's a line that gets crossed when you go from let's 152 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.039 take care of our fellow man to like, let's have the government use guns 153 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:01.200 to force us to take care of our fellow man, which is a difficult 154 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:05.519 it's a difficult thing to understand that that's where this goes eventually, and you 155 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:07.919 know it doesn't always have to go there, right, there are countries out 156 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:11.480 there that have some socialist policies. I mean America has tons of social policies, 157 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:16.600 social security, I mean lots of medicare, right, I like Medicare, 158 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.120 don't get me wrong. That's like a hell of a deal. And 159 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.080 of course it's there's a certain element to you know, public education, all 160 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.000 these kinds of things. You know, my wife works in public education. 161 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.679 We live in a great neighborhood with a very good public school. Some public 162 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.879 schools aren't very good, but ours is great. So the question is, 163 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:39.200 like, you know, there's always socialist policies. There's also socialism on the 164 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.600 corporate level, as we know, with the allowing corporations to get very cheap 165 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.720 loans that we probably call that corporate socialism and causing a lot of wealth inequality 166 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:52.519 here. There's no perfect system, but there's definitely a place where. You 167 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:54.159 know, I think if my parents, if you ask them about this, 168 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.720 they would much prefer a system of free market and freedom in general, because 169 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.320 when markets aren't free, then then really nothing is free. That the flow 170 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.480 of information has to also not be free, The flow of currency is stopped, 171 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.519 everything is locked down. Because once if you live in socialist Russia, 172 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:13.039 you either live in that socialist bubble and you think everything's okay, or you 173 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.399 see the outside world and all of a sudden you're like, oh wait, 174 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.759 this is not right. Like, you know, there's no breadlines in America. 175 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.159 Why are there breadlines here? Yeah, they can't expose you to the 176 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:26.840 real information out there or you'll get pissed off exactly. So Russia was heavily 177 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:28.480 censored. You know, all information was heavily censored. There was only State 178 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.360 TV, there was like three channels, and letters you know, were presumed 179 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:35.000 to be read going out to America, you know, we had to like, 180 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:39.240 it's just it's a bad situation, and I don't think anybody wants to 181 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.480 live in that kind of world. Who's who's seen the other side. I 182 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.480 don't think anybody would want to live in that world at all, whether they've 183 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:50.679 seen on the other side or not. So that's that's that's interesting. I 184 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:54.879 was curious what your parents thoughts would be on, you know, especially since 185 00:11:54.879 --> 00:12:00.720 they're my age on. Seeing how many people are wanting socialism nowadays just surprises 186 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:01.919 me. The amount of people I see that are in favor of that. 187 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:05.759 I say, because I've just always been I don't know, to me, 188 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:09.039 it always just made sense that if you work hard, you can be rich. 189 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.679 If you don't want to work, you're not going to be rich. 190 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:13.679 I don't think it's as black and white as that. There's also elements of 191 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:16.759 like, you know, luck of the draw, where are you born, 192 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:20.039 what's your community, like and there's a lot of other stuff that goes into 193 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.919 it. But I think you can work past that if you work now. 194 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.240 You know, like I may not I may not be the President of the 195 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:28.399 United States rich, but yeah, I grew up on an island, for 196 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.000 an example, as a white dude, So I was I did get a 197 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:35.639 break there. I would admit that's a break. There are systemic things that 198 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.639 happen. I mean, if you will grow up in a neighborhood where there's 199 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:39.720 just like you, you're fighting for your life to survive. I mean, 200 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:43.080 that's a systemic thing. Your bar to get out of that area is way 201 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.399 higher than you know, somebody was born even in poverty as a white dude 202 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:48.080 or whatever. I don't want to get into that necessarily. No, I 203 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:50.440 admit I got a hell of it right being a white dude compared to a 204 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.799 lot of people. There's no doubt about that. I used to when I 205 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.840 heard that statement white privilege, I was like, what the hell has happening? 206 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:00.679 Right now, I've come to understand that is a true thing. And 207 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.799 you're right. If I grew up in a neighborhood where someone was being shot 208 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.440 every week, and I was just trying to stay alive. And my whole 209 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:09.279 goal was just to get to stay alive, rather than going, hey, 210 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:11.279 no one's no one's trying to kill man. If your only way of making 211 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:15.679 money, like enough money, is to sell drugs and that was the only 212 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:18.559 and then on top of that, you were threatened with violence if you didn't, 213 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:20.440 I mean, right, you know, that's a big difference. You're 214 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:22.840 correct. It's so much different bart to get over than where I'm going down 215 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:26.679 to the golf course, which we weren't rich enough to be a member, 216 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.879 but I could go to the eighteenth hole and tell cokes to those golfers for 217 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:31.240 fifty cents each or something. I mean, we came to this country with 218 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:33.399 nothing, and a lot of times people are like, oh, look, 219 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:37.200 I came to this country with nothing, and I bought this life. But 220 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.120 my dad was an engineer, my mom was a teacher. They had education, 221 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.360 like world class education. I mean, say what you will about the 222 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:45.879 Soviet Union, but the education system was very good and they produce some of 223 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.039 the best engineers. And we came to this country with all that and all 224 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.279 this culture and the background, and of course we were able to build a 225 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:54.919 back up. You know, it took a long time, but we were 226 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.720 able to do it. It's not equal for everybody in that sense. No, 227 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.519 I agree with you completely. You made a good point there, But 228 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:03.759 again it's like, what do you do, right? I mean you you 229 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:07.440 you want to try to help other people, you can do that voluntarily or 230 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:09.120 you can say, okay, well we're gonna like ask the government to you 231 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:13.279 know, take everybody half of everybody's to paycheck and pay for these other people. 232 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.840 And for me, like I would happily do that for my local community, 233 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:18.799 I'm not so sure I should be paying for somebody that lives halfway across 234 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.200 the world or to fight wars or other things, which is you know where 235 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.080 federal taxes end up going, right, and then you have to go you 236 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:28.559 know, they're able to print as much money as they want, won't we 237 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.799 just set at here everything sprint money and take care everybody here. Yeah, 238 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:33.559 I agree with you on all of that. So what where did y'all move 239 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.120 when you moved here? We ended up in a suburb of Chicago, because 240 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:41.120 in order to move to the United States at the time, you basically had 241 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:46.120 to have somebody here that would essentially vouch for you and say they'd take care 242 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:48.639 of you like they would they would request your immigration and say they would be 243 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.000 your caretaker and all that. So we had like my grandpa's you know, 244 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.759 cousin that was living here, so we were able to use him to fish 245 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:58.759 us out of there, right, And yeah, So I grew up in 246 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:05.879 suburbs of Chicago and went to school downstate in Illinois at the urbanis Champagne and 247 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:09.320 then came back to the city. And I guess, and you benefited from 248 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.000 having educated parents that new education was important, so they probably made that a 249 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.159 high priority. I mean, my dad bought me a computer like a year 250 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.879 after we moved here. And again keep in mind, he was doing odd 251 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.080 jobs earning like five ten dollars an hour at the time, so he knew 252 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:24.480 that was so important that you know, that was one of the first purchases 253 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:30.360 that they made Commodore sixty four used. Obviously it was a junker, but 254 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:33.240 at the time it must have cost a couple hundred dollars, so it wasn't 255 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:37.200 a small amount of money compared to their salary, but it was something that 256 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.799 you know, my dad saw the future and computers and made sure that I 257 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.879 got into that real early. Well, that's really it was really smart of 258 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.000 him. I wish I wish there were computers around when I was in high 259 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.559 school, even that would have been nice for sure. Let's get off that 260 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:54.799 for a second and go into your book, Inventing Bitcoin, which you can 261 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.440 find at inventing bitcoin dot com. You know, I think this is a 262 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:02.440 good book as a star her book, you know, for somebody. I 263 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.639 think I used to tell people who were interested in bitcoin to get safety Dean's 264 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.039 book, you know, the Bitcoin Standard, which I think is a great 265 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:12.519 book, great book, without a doubt, But I think this is a 266 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:18.000 better starting book, your book. And then you know, when you get 267 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.039 him to read that, then they go, wow, that bitcoin sounds interesting. 268 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.480 What should I read next? Then set him into something a little heavier. 269 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:26.759 I don't like the Bitcoin Standard. That's just my thoughts. I heard 270 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.720 it in reversal order, but that was my thoughts. Tell us about your 271 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.279 book. What made you write the book? Yeah, I agree with your 272 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.480 assessment. The reason I wrote the book, and it's very short, it's 273 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.840 about one hundred pages long, and they wrote it because they wanted to have 274 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:41.840 something that was friendly for beginners. And when I started writing it, which 275 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:47.440 was probably in the early twenty eighteen, there wasn't a lot in the market. 276 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:49.000 I don't remember if Safe Book was out yet or not, but pretty 277 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:55.279 much everything that was out there was substantial. Like there was Mastering Bitcoin by 278 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.679 Andrea Sanntonopolis, which was like, you know, three or four hundred pages 279 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.679 and it was yeah, code, and it's like, it's not it's meant 280 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:06.160 for developers, it's not meant for the everyday person. And I felt like 281 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.519 the resources out there weren't good enough to give people a short understanding of bitcoin, 282 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:12.680 but that was enough for them to be able to go and explain to 283 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:17.680 somebody else. That's that was really My goal was to have something that somebody 284 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:22.119 could read, understand and feel like they know bitcoin well enough to defend the 285 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:26.200 ideas of bitcoin, like why why is it limited in supply? Why is 286 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:29.720 mining? How does minning work? These are the ideas that we cover in 287 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:33.359 the book so that people have a strong understanding. And I started writing the 288 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.079 book because I was giving talks at high schools. Actually, I was giving 289 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:42.119 a bunch of lectures to high school students and math classes and for career days 290 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:47.000 because a lot of my friends and my wife as a teacher, so I 291 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.359 would just go around to their high schools and basically showed bitcoin to high schoolers. 292 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:55.880 But as part of that I started I was taking notes and writing outlines 293 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.039 and kind of turned into essays, and that was the beginning of the book. 294 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.319 So the book was really meant to be at a high school level. 295 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:04.920 I didn't want anybody to have, you know, a computer science degree or 296 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:07.720 advanced math or nothing like that. It was going to be at a high 297 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.759 school level where I could actually give this book to high schooler and have them 298 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.799 understand it and ask questions. And that's that's what I came up with, 299 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.759 is you know, the process of inventing bitcoin? How how would you go 300 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:22.119 about inventing bitcoin? Because I think when you walk through the process of inventing 301 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.839 something, then you have a really good understanding of all the pieces that comprise 302 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.000 it and you can actually explain to somebody else from your experience of going out 303 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:33.519 talking about bitcoin and taking your notes and basically your outline, I guess of 304 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:37.759 what you were talking about. You just decided to put that into a book. 305 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:41.519 Yeah, And it was almost like a reaction to people's questions because I 306 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:45.559 think the biggest two biggest questions are you know, how does bitcoin work and 307 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:48.839 why does it need to exist? And the why. I cover it by 308 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.960 looking at some of the Satoshi's quotes and looking at what his motivations were, 309 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:56.599 what was he really trying to achieve, And then once we understand what he 310 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.359 is trying to achieve, like he wanted to have you know, scarcity, 311 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:00.839 he wanted to have an animity, he wanted to have you know, these 312 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:06.319 are different ideas around uh, you know, trustlessness, like anybody could join 313 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.440 the system it was permissionless. And then looking at those motivations and then saying, 314 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:11.799 okay, well, how do we actually get that done? How do 315 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:17.319 we implement that in code? And solving those problems one one after another? 316 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:19.720 Uh and um, you know in the book, I talk about it from 317 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.279 very high level. I don't actually get into the computer code, but I 318 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:26.200 do give people enough of an understanding of computer science at a very like, 319 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.160 you know, not even one on one level, just how do computers work 320 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:33.559 in a bitcoin system and how do they keep each other in check? Yeah, 321 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:37.119 it's you don't have to be able to write code to understand what you're 322 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:38.359 talking about in code in this book. Like I said, this book's very 323 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:41.920 well done and I was very impressed. Now you had Guy Swan Yes to 324 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:48.079 narrate this on the audio book version available, and he does a great job. 325 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:51.640 I mean, you know, I think he did a great rebranding job 326 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:53.880 on a site going to the big one audible. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, 327 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:56.599 guy does a great job. And I think the way that he reads 328 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.359 is the way that I imagine writing, like kind of I'm a fast talker, 329 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.960 so I would never want to narrate my own book, but the way 330 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.480 that he speaks is very clear, and I think it helps sell the ideas 331 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:10.480 in the book, you know, more clearly and un like people digest what's 332 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:12.200 going on. Yeah, I think that's the problem with the for minute crypto 333 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.480 shows. I talk really fast, the formaute bitcoin show, every brand it 334 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:18.240 is, I talk really fast. I had a friends say, yeah, 335 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.839 I listen to all my podcasts at one and a half speed. But that's 336 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:25.559 the slowers down because you're already one and a half speed. Yeah, that's 337 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:27.279 what people say about me too, So I try to make a conscious effort 338 00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:32.319 to talk slower, but it's hard. Now people can find that at your 339 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:37.359 site. But that's also at inventing Bitcoin dot com. But that's also on 340 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:41.200 like it Audible, Audible Amazon, you can get in pretty much all the 341 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:47.799 standard channels. And last year you gave us like well ten of those that 342 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:51.319 you signed and numbered to give away a bit block boom when we had drawings 343 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.880 in between speakers, and it's amazing how excited people were. My wife said, 344 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:57.599 they were really excited when they came down and got to their prize, 345 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.599 so that was really pretty. And then we had some at the table you'd 346 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:06.680 provided that we sold for you, So that was a really productive prize that 347 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:08.599 people seem to have liked. Then, if anyone's out there, if you're 348 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.759 not for me with bit block Boom, that's a bitcoin conference I put on 349 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:17.000 every year here in Dallas, Texas, and this is our third year. 350 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:22.079 Coming up for the conference is twenty ninth of August. Like I said, 351 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:26.200 in Dallas, Texas and at bit block Boom, we just talk about bitcoin, 352 00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:30.359 not all coins, not blockchain, just bitcoin. So if you're interested 353 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:36.119 in bitcoin, go to bitblock boom dot com and check it out. It 354 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.480 is starting to turn into a week long event. I think our first events 355 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.920 now are on Thursday night. I would be a surprised is someone that add 356 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.240 a satellite event for Wednesday at the way things are going. But check out 357 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.880 our lineup see what you think. And if you decide to go, use 358 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:55.680 the code cousins CUSI NS at checkout and you will receive thirty percent off the 359 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:57.279 price of your ticket. So check that out. I hope I get to 360 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:02.839 see you this year in Dallas. Everybody that vent really seems to be growing 361 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.240 this year. That's awesome. Yeah, I think because people haven't had anywhere 362 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:08.160 to go. Oh for sure. Yeah, this this lockdown is not fun. 363 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:12.839 Yeah, we had Stephan laver Is coming from Australia, but he sent 364 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:18.799 me a message this morning that he's not sure that they're going to unlock I 365 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:22.039 guess is he in New Zealand or Australia. I'm not sure actually probably. 366 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:27.319 He said that it looks like they're going to be at the travel there locally 367 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:32.799 by August, but it might be September the tint before they can leave the 368 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.880 country, and that's kind of weird. So he's like keeping us updated so 369 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:38.680 we can figure out if he's still going to be at the com or not. 370 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:41.480 So if not, we may have to get a sub for him and 371 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:48.759 have him in next year. So you also, though, are with Swan 372 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:53.599 Bitcoin and give Bitcoin. I mean that's both by the same There are two 373 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.240 different things, but they're by the same entity. I guess, yes, 374 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.680 Yes, we're one united entity. Yeah, tell us about Swan. How's 375 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:04.160 that going. Swan is doing great. You know, we launched Swan. 376 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:07.759 For those of you who don't know, Swanna is a bitcoin auto stacking service, 377 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.640 so we withdraw automatically from your bank account. We buy bitcoin automatically on 378 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:15.319 a weekly basis, and then we withdraw it back to your bitcoin wallet, 379 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:19.279 also automatically if you choose to set up automatic withdrawals, which is pretty cool 380 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:22.519 and I'm at sure that anybody else is doing that part. So, you 381 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:27.160 know, lowest fees for for that particular service. And you know, Swanna 382 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:32.960 was launched on the eve of the COVID disaster. We I think we released 383 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:37.200 it on the week of March twenty third, which is probably the week around 384 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:40.759 the time when the markets were crashing, or right after that happened. It 385 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:45.240 was really just a time of despair and doom and gloom. And yet a 386 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:48.000 lot of people are very excited about Swan, and there was so much noise 387 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.720 on Twitter, and a lot of people joined up and you know, now 388 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:53.559 it's been what is it two months or so two and a half months, 389 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.319 and we're growing very quickly. We're on boarding you people all the time, 390 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.039 and we're getting, um, you know, we're getting people who aren't your 391 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.079 typical I don't know your Bitcoin Twitter people. They're not those people. We're 392 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:11.680 getting boomers. We're getting people of all ages, all sex, gender. 393 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:15.559 Surprise. No, I'm not surprised. I love it, and you know, 394 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:19.680 I think that's really important because I wanted this service that I could send 395 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:23.640 you know, my parents too. That was really what we wanted to Swan 396 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:27.559 to be was a It was a mainstream service for bitcoin. And it's interesting 397 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:33.079 because the people who you know on bitcoin Twitter, who I have a certain 398 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.920 set of requirements, are very different from your typical person buying bitcoin for the 399 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:40.440 first time because they, for example, they don't understand while it's they haven't 400 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:41.839 heard of a wallet, what does that mean? How do they do that? 401 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:45.119 So Swan is not just a place to buy a bitcoin. We also 402 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:52.519 couple that with bitcoin education through our series of blog articles at swan bitcoin dot 403 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:56.240 com, slash Signal swan Signal, and then we also have the live show 404 00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:00.119 which we do on Twitter and other channels every week as well as swan Signal 405 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:04.559 podcast dot com, where we basically capture that knowledge and turn it into pods 406 00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:08.079 and we have awesome guests on all the time. We just had Adam back 407 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.079 and Preston pish On. It was a lot of a lot of fun. 408 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:15.480 So these are the kinds of things that we do because we want to educate 409 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.880 people on bitcoin, not just you know, they bought a number, which 410 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.079 is most people they want to coin based, they bought a number. We 411 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:25.519 don't want that for our next million ten million bitcoiners. We want to have 412 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:30.519 people understand what they bought, why is it important, how does money work? 413 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:34.160 And all of that is stuff that we do through our ongoing education efforts. 414 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:40.960 Well, when you're saying stacking a platform in case someone has been under 415 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:45.240 a rock and they don't know what stacking SATs are, you're basically saying this 416 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:49.200 site is set up for someone to say, I want to get into bitcoin, 417 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:53.599 and I'm going to buy just gonna make a number one hundred dollars worth 418 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:59.680 a bitcoin every payday, every Friday or every other Friday, and this service 419 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:03.519 will go ahead and automatically buy and whatever the rate is that day. One 420 00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:08.880 hundred dollars worth a bitcoin form so slowly they're able to say, say bitcoin, 421 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:12.559 and they can sit back and they're not like, you know, looking 422 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.359 at it all the time, trying to remember missing it out because I think 423 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:22.079 everybody agrees that if you just stack on us dollar cost averaging over the long 424 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:25.920 run, you're going to do better than trying to buy on the lows or 425 00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:29.119 buy all ones. I think, yeah, a lot of people who get 426 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:32.160 into bitcoin and then all of a sudden are kind of called into trading. 427 00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:36.960 And you know, if you've never traded stocks or stock options, you know 428 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.440 you probably shouldn't be day trading bitcoin either. It's not really it's a very 429 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:45.599 volatile market. It's not really friendly to new traders. And most people aren't 430 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.039 traders. They shouldn't be traders, you know. I think as a society 431 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.640 we push people into trading. We have apps like robin Hood and all that 432 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:56.160 that offer free trading and try to get people hooked on the idea of gambling. 433 00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:00.000 But we've really lost the art of saving as a society. We don't 434 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:03.319 remember how to save our money. Obviously is not good for saving, because 435 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:07.680 if you save it, it loses value at least two percent, they're happy 436 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:11.200 if it only loses two. That's the goal is two, So it does 437 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.359 it meet goal? Yeah, we believe that bitcoin is the best money ever 438 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.680 invented. It's it's definitely better than than if you have money that loses money 439 00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:21.920 value all the time, and so you should be saving some of it all 440 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:23.440 the time. And that's what swan is about. It's about regular saving of 441 00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:27.240 bitcoin so that you don't have to think about it and just accumulates for you. 442 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:32.200 So does that sync up? I know I'm involved, but the things 443 00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:33.880 I don't know about. Does that sync up to your bank account or to 444 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:38.160 a credit card or are ty either? It sinks No, no credit cards, 445 00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:42.160 bank accounts only. And you probably shouldn't be buying bitcoin and a credit 446 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:45.880 card. Well, you might buy it to get to miles. You might 447 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:48.119 have the money. You might Yeah, if you're going to pay it off. 448 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.559 Sure, but you know there's a lot of most credit cards and sort 449 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:56.319 of you know in the industry they have enough charge for bitcoin related purchases and 450 00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:02.039 we're just not going to support credit cards for the foreseeable future. But banking, 451 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:04.599 yes, and then we have wires coming in pretty soon. We're gonna 452 00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:07.279 have a wire support, so you can just wire in money and it'll clear 453 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.839 right away instead of having to wait for the sche clearance period. So is 454 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:17.039 that going as expected, better than expected, a little behind because of the 455 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.839 COVID didn't expect. I think it's going better in the sense that the amounts 456 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:23.160 that people are saving are way more than we ever thought. When we model 457 00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:26.039 this business, we were conservatively looking at one hundred, one hundred and fifty 458 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:32.839 dollars per customers as their monthly amount. It turns out that the most people 459 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.519 like the most common amounts or fifty one hundred dollars a week, and it 460 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:40.119 could be even higher than that. So you know, people are stacking more 461 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:44.319 than we thought, which is awesome, especially in a time like this where 462 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.400 you know finances might be sure or people might might be losing their paychecks. 463 00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:51.240 And we've had a couple of folks put their plans on pause because they lost 464 00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:55.480 their job. But the nice thing is that they can always resume when they're 465 00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:59.160 ready to go again, and we always try to lower that limit, so 466 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:00.319 you know, if it's five dollars a month is all you can afford, 467 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.759 then that's what you can do. It's fine. So when you buy that 468 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:10.359 does stay in the swan wallet or when you buy it as an automatically transfer 469 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:15.200 using your key to your wallet, so we have both options. What we 470 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.039 find is a lot of people who are new to bitcoin are not comfortable setting 471 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.519 up wallets yet. So we obviously when you buy it, it's it's bought 472 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.559 on our side, it's bought through our custodial partner, and we partner with 473 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:29.519 a licensed and regulated Nevada chartered trust company called Prime Trust, and so all 474 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:32.920 of that happens on their side and is held in offline cold storage, so 475 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:36.240 that if people are new to bitcoin, then essentially their coins are safe. 476 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.680 But we're trying to of course, you know, with as bitcoiners, we 477 00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.359 want to promote not your keys, not your coins. We want to promote 478 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.319 for people to take custody of their own assets. So what we do to 479 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.880 encourage that is we create an auto withdrawal plan for people so once they are 480 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.720 ready to set up a wallet, and we just put together a great article 481 00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.000 about all the wallets that are out there and recommend different kinds of wallets for 482 00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.799 different different amounts that you might be storing. And once you have set up 483 00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.079 a wallet, you can just create an auto withdrawal plan, and so every 484 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.359 time you buy bitcoin, it will withdraw. You can even set it up 485 00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:08.480 so that it has thresholds so that you don't withdraw every five dollars, you 486 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:12.039 will draw every one hundred dollars or every five hundred dollars or every certain amount 487 00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:18.559 of bitcoin, because yeah, we want to encourage batching because this is something 488 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:21.920 again a lot of newbies don't know. But if your coins are all split 489 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:23.559 up into small pieces, then later when you want to use them, it 490 00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:27.279 will cost you more to spend them because of the way that transaction fees work 491 00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:30.720 based on the amount of data. A lot of people new to bitcoin don't 492 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:36.759 understand transaction fees. Now swan actually has free withdrawals. We don't charge you 493 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:40.559 for withdrawals at all. So it's to your benefit to use that for batching. 494 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:41.920 So go ahead, and you know, batch up a bunch of them 495 00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.960 and withdraw once and then you have this nice chunk and then you can spend 496 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:49.400 the night. I know that it had free withdrawals, free withdrawals. We're 497 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:52.680 doing it. We haven't been super vocal about it. We're trying to get 498 00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:56.200 it more and more places. We're just not you know, we're not at 499 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.440 a point where the site design is where we want it in terms of advertising 500 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:03.799 all the different bits and pieces, and that's because it's challenging to balance all 501 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.599 the exciting features that are good for people who understand what they're looking for versus 502 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.880 you know, making a really simple experience for newbs. And so we've aired 503 00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:14.519 on the side of having it just kind of minimal, and then over time 504 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.240 we'll be adding more more stuff in. Well, it's going to give bitcoin 505 00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:19.200 real quick quick, because that gotten kind of put on the back burner for 506 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:23.680 Swan. Give bitcoin was the first product before Swan came out, and give 507 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:27.759 Bitcoin was a you know, essentially envisioned as an on ramp to bitcoiners, 508 00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:30.680 and it also had a purchasing feature to it, but we never did a 509 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:36.759 good job marketing it. And I think that when we realized what the landscape 510 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:40.720 was that people were so much more excited about, you know, automatic purchases 511 00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.880 of bitcoin, we just decided to pursue that fully and give bitcoins if it 512 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:47.799 got kind of like said on the sideburn Yeah, it works, exists, 513 00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:52.480 it's uh, you know, it's attracting users every day kind of by itself. 514 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:55.680 But we definitely don't spend a lot of time marketing it. And the 515 00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:00.720 reason for that is we eventually envisioned Swan becoming the umbrella brand for all of 516 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:04.440 this. So you'll have a Swan app. It'll do the Swan auto stacking, 517 00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:07.119 but it will also allow you to give gifts to people, so it 518 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.400 kind of would be incorporated into the Swan. Yeah, we'll fold it back 519 00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:13.440 in. Yeah, but since you know, we're a small company, it 520 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:15.519 kind of benefits us to put all of our efforts on one thing and really 521 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:19.920 grow that thing, and then we can fold more features. But get Bitcoin 522 00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.279 is a good way to give bitcoin. It is. I mean, if 523 00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:24.799 you want to give someone a Christmas press, to give bitcoin, it's a 524 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.039 pretty good way to do it. Yeah, And give Bitcoin is also designed 525 00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:32.160 for you know, your average kind of you be a bitcoin where you know, 526 00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:36.720 a kid asks their uncle for a bitcoin present, Well then uncle doesn't 527 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:38.680 have to understand bitcoin in order to give them the present. You can just 528 00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:43.039 go on to give bitcoin, plug in their bank account and we do all 529 00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:46.799 the conversion automatically. Yeah, it's good. Fin Now what is bitcoiner VC 530 00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:53.720 bitcoiner Ventures? Yeah, so bitcointer Ventures is a partnership between myself and Corey 531 00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:59.759 and Stefan Lavera and Louis lou And it's a it's a way for us to 532 00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:04.680 raise money for bitcoin friendly companies. Company companies that you know are good for 533 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.759 bitcoin. That's our that's our litmus test, is it good for bitcoin. 534 00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:12.559 It's an angelist syndicate and we don't take any fees. There are angelists fees, 535 00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:15.240 but we as as the partners, we don't actually take any carry or 536 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.079 what you might find a regular hedge fund where people take fees on the investments. 537 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.400 So it's kind of like a pro bono good faith thing that we're doing 538 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:27.640 in order to UM invest in bitcoin companies. And we commit our own money 539 00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.440 just alongside everybody else. It's not we're never going to ask somebody for money 540 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:35.440 where we don't commit. UM. And we just did our first deal which 541 00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.599 was for Unchained Capital and UM, that's that's live. So UM what was 542 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:44.400 that? That's that's closed. Well, we we raised we raised about one 543 00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.519 hundred thousand dollars for runtchain Capital. Yeah. Yeah, now there are platinum 544 00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:52.079 sponsor a bitlock moon this year. Kind of excited to have them involved. 545 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.839 Awesome. Yeah, Unchained is great fantastic team UM and we were very excited 546 00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:59.880 to help them because, you know, we really believe in their mission and 547 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.759 also just the way that they execute you know, they're very very smart and 548 00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:07.599 how they treat funds on chain and obviously their vaulting products are very excellent. 549 00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:12.840 So we believe that these products have to exist for bitcoin to succeed. And 550 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:15.440 so that's the kind of companies you want to fund. So that was your 551 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:20.440 first Your first adventure or venture was friend chain Capital, Let's go out. 552 00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.480 I found that by accident. I didn't even know that bitcoin or VC existed. 553 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:27.239 I kind of by accident. Yeah, And if anybody wants to join 554 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:30.000 up, it's you can just join the angelist syndicate. It's called Bitcoin or 555 00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:35.199 Ventures. You can find that an angelist and there's no commitment or any obligation 556 00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:37.800 to invest. You'll just be able to essentially see all the deals that are 557 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:40.760 coming across and then if you're interested in any particular deal, you can sign 558 00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:45.679 up to do that. But any deals that you guys do promote, you're 559 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:50.440 basically putting your own money in. Yes, yeah, we won't. We 560 00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:52.760 won't promote anything that we're not funding ourselves. So I made deals. Do 561 00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:54.840 you have in the works right now or do you have any in the works. 562 00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:59.360 We have a few, but we are not allowed to talk about any 563 00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:02.360 deals. Can't promote anything if you're not a you know, a partner in 564 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:07.360 the syndicates. So I can't talk about it publicly. That's fine, that's 565 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:08.800 fine. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't know the scoop. So okay, 566 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:12.159 so you're interesting. If you want to find out, go join Bitcoin 567 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:15.039 of BC. Yeah, and again that's there's an obligation. Just go ahead. 568 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:16.360 And is there any kind of tests you got to pass or anything. 569 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:20.400 I mean, if anyone can, well, you have to pass an accreditation 570 00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:22.960 test on Angelists. They take care of all that for us. So we're 571 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:27.679 just you know, we're basically just helping find deals. Yeah. I was 572 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:31.519 looking at that last week. What is that angel investor, angel list? 573 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:36.039 Angel list, So it's at angel dot co if if you guys don't know, 574 00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:39.360 Yeah, I was surprised I found I was a member of that or 575 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:42.320 something. I didn't even know. I guess. I don't know when I 576 00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.679 signed that or when that happened. They have like a network of stuff they 577 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:47.599 have. You can create your own profile if you're even just like a developer 578 00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:52.920 or entrepreneur. So they did a lot of stuff to act essentially the whole 579 00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:58.239 venture capital and startup community. So a lot of people have angelists accounts that 580 00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.119 they don't remember because they signed up as a as a developer or something a 581 00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:04.000 long time ago. Stephen Cole told me about it. I had him on 582 00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.519 last week, and so I was looking at the site last week because he 583 00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:08.400 was telling me about it. Okay, so now I got to scoop on 584 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:13.079 the VC. Hey, what do you think of the happening? Was that? 585 00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:16.000 Were you kind of let down or were you is that what you were 586 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:21.239 expecting or I mean I expected bitcoin not to change this monetary policy, and 587 00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:25.239 it held up phenomenally well as far as price. You know, I don't 588 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:29.559 really look at day to day price movements. I don't think it's that important. 589 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:32.960 I'm into bitcoin for a very long time, and I think of it 590 00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:38.880 as money for my children and grandchildren. So this having having happening whatever, 591 00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:43.119 it's the third out of many, probably many more to come. There will 592 00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:45.760 be two more of this decade. I was looking for a little bit more 593 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:50.760 excitement, a little more oh maybe some online parties or something, you know, 594 00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:52.800 there was some yeah, I mean there was some zoom chats. I 595 00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:54.639 think because of the COVID everybody's like, you know, you get a party 596 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:58.519 in the zoom chat or something, but I was looking I think maybe a 597 00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.920 drunken chat wherebody had a mottle line or bottles. I think it's awesome that 598 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:06.920 the whole mining deut spiral narrative is getting destroyed right now because there's all these 599 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:08.960 you know, people saying that mining was going to be over, it's not 600 00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:15.039 gonna be profitable, and I think people don't understand how mining works and keep 601 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:17.000 writing articles about it, which is sad. They need to research. Do 602 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:22.679 you think Pace said that the same thing about miners during the second Havening. 603 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:24.239 I think they did. I mean, as far as I know, there 604 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:28.880 are form posts going back to like twenty eleven where they were talking about the 605 00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:31.440 mining dot spiral, you know, going into the first having So this has 606 00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:34.679 been going on. This narrative has been going out for a long time, 607 00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:38.079 and I think it fundamentally misunderstands how mining works. I mean, it's an 608 00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:42.679 insensive, aligned system and if people are unprofitable, yeah they're going to unplug, 609 00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.880 but that makes other people more profitable, right, and so all it 610 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:51.960 does is shifts the energy usage to places where there's more efficient, cheaper energy. 611 00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:54.800 So yeah, some some guys you know in their garages are no longer 612 00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:58.760 profitable. Mining adjusts itself. It's the beauty of the whole thing is that 613 00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:02.119 it's a self regulating system. The difficulty adjustment happens every two weeks according to 614 00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:06.400 what's going before it, so exactly, Hey, um, you listen to 615 00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:08.480 podcasts. I used to listen to a lot, now less because I don't 616 00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:12.719 drive anymore, which is unfortunately, you know, I think that's affected the 617 00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:16.079 podcast industry as a whole. I bet it that no one's in their cars 618 00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:21.000 or buses their trains, and that's when people listen to most podcasts. What 619 00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:23.519 are a couple of your favorite podcasts. I like stuff on Lavera's pod, 620 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:30.039 m Marty Bent Tales from the Crypt. I like I listened to the What's 621 00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:35.039 hev Any podcasts with Cassie. I listened to a few episodes of that. 622 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:37.440 I was pretty impressed. Ben I stopped because I stopped triving, right right. 623 00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:42.000 Yeah, that's killed a lot of podcasts. Yeah, so sad. 624 00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:45.000 You know, I'm trying to figure out a routine where I will actually find 625 00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:47.320 time to listen to pods. Yeah, but also the other one I've been 626 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:52.400 actually listening to more. I almost stopped listening to bitcoin podcasts in favor of 627 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.360 listening to macro Voices, which I love so much. Now. It's it's 628 00:38:55.400 --> 00:39:00.639 a podcast just about macro economics and you know, various trends, and they've 629 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:04.719 been really interesting because they talked about the virus and how that was going to 630 00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.920 impact things and deflation inflation, like the stuff has become more interesting to me 631 00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:12.800 almost a bitcoin. I mean, obviously bitcoin is the number one thing in 632 00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:15.039 my life and I talk about it all the time, but you have to 633 00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:16.920 have interests outside of bitcoin, and I think macrow is kind of a very 634 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:22.119 nice adjacent thing to expand your mind on when you're looking at bitcoin. I 635 00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:24.000 think, what's hurt me with podcasts? All of a sudden I started listening 636 00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:28.800 to audio books? Oh yeah, you know, and like you know, 637 00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:34.079 I was listening to one book recently which was like twenty hours and I drive 638 00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:37.840 five minutes to work, so it took me a long time. You know, 639 00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:40.719 a lot of episodes of podcast came out, but I think listen to 640 00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:47.039 the audiobooks is hurt my podcast listening habits, you know. So, hey, 641 00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:50.800 before we get out of here, is there anything you want to tell 642 00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:52.320 people that we might not have gone over that you wanted to make sure and 643 00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.440 let people know, or that you were trying to promote or want to make 644 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:59.239 sure you know, come on here, we miss something. Sure, we 645 00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:02.280 have a new um new concept on swan, which is you can have your 646 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:06.920 own vanity landing page with a welcome bar. It's got your face on it 647 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:09.159 and a quote. And this is for people who want to drive more traffic 648 00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:13.800 to the site. So you can go to swan bitcoin dot com slash enlist 649 00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:17.199 to enlist in the Swan force and become a promoter of bitcoin. Really, 650 00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.079 it's all about promoting bitcoin and help and using Swans onboard new bitcoiners. And 651 00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.920 we're gonna be providing a library of memes you can use on Twitter and other 652 00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:30.239 places um to promote bitcoin and get more people on board. So if you're 653 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:34.199 interested in that kind of thing and you have an audience, go to swan 654 00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.760 bitcoin dot com slash enlist and become one of our you know, one of 655 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:42.000 our promoters, and you know, just get more bitcoiners on board. Yeah, 656 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:43.920 I mean to do that. I guess I send people. I just 657 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:45.840 send people. I don't know where. I don't even know what I'm sending. 658 00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:47.960 We gave you one. Let's see here. H don't we have slash 659 00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:51.480 gary for you? I don't know? Do we? We do have slash 660 00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:52.280 gary for you? Oh? I didn't even know. There you go. 661 00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:55.320 Yes, I didn't go to swan bitcoin dot com slash Gary. Okay, 662 00:40:55.480 --> 00:41:00.679 yeah, so you're listening to this bitcoin I didn't even know. Okay, 663 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:02.440 we're gonna sell Yours doesn't have a face on it, but we're gonna fix 664 00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:05.480 that up right after this interview. I think we can. We can do 665 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:07.079 that if you're interested in well, I'll start using that. I usually use 666 00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:10.679 a short link because I can't ever remember, you know what. Affiliate links 667 00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:14.079 aren't stuff, But I can remember that one. I can remember. So 668 00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:16.320 you're when you whenever you send somebody there and you have a profile, they're 669 00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:19.679 gonna get a bonus. They're gonna get a sign a bonus, and then 670 00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:22.360 you get you know, as a promoter, if you're part of the Swan 671 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:25.760 force, you're gonna get a percentage of their future purchases as well as an 672 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:30.400 initial referral fee, So definitely check that out. Swanforce dot com or swander 673 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:34.679 cooin dot com, slash and list. We need to get swanforce dot com. 674 00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.400 But yeah, and I'm gonna and I'm gonna like, look at Gary 675 00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:39.119 because I didn't even know I was there. You go to slash Gary. 676 00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:42.800 We're gonna talk about getting you a bar after the show. Sounds good, 677 00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:44.840 Well, I appreciate you. Coming of time. Where can people follow you 678 00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:46.119 at? Where's the best place for him to follow? You? Find me 679 00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:52.719 on Twitter? Skwp pronounced scoop skwp? What does that mean? What is 680 00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:55.079 that? Why do you have skwp? It's something that it's a name I 681 00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:59.320 chosen. I was fourteen years old and it's stuck since then. And it's 682 00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:04.360 actually a care are from an Isaac Asimov book, who was an alien scribe 683 00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:07.760 spoke, you know, hundreds of languages, which you know, I'm an 684 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:10.480 linguistics nerd. So how's that pronounced? Then, linguistic nerd, let's pronounce 685 00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:14.960 scoop. Oh, that's pronounce scoop. Okay, that's kWp. Yeah, 686 00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.199 and that's the pronunciation they gave them the book. So I don't know, 687 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:19.639 Okay, well, I didn't know I figured I figured there was a way 688 00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:21.719 to read it if it was in the book. I mean, you know, 689 00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.000 so there was something if someone's name in the book. Yeah, Scoop. 690 00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:28.119 Okay, Scoop. So is that your nickname? Is that what everybody 691 00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.920 called you when you were a kid? No, just online, just my 692 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.320 online handle, you know, from back from I R C Days and BBSs 693 00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.440 and whatnot. Okay, it's funny. Mine was p Dilley after the PI 694 00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:45.840 backed in the dayson I hated pickles. You must really love pickles. Pickles. 695 00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:47.599 I don't know why, everybuddy, So well, I'm gonna let you 696 00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:50.679 go. I appreciate you coming on the show and just let you know you're 697 00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:54.760 officially now a Crypto cousin. So welcome, Welcome to the Badge. I 698 00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:58.480 hope you've enjoyed today's show, and I want to give a big thank you 699 00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:01.480 know all my cousins out there from listening and subscribe. If you haven't subscribed 700 00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:05.840 yet, just go to cryptocusins dot com and you'll see the links for all 701 00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:08.000 the places you can subscribe. You want to take a second, leave a 702 00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:12.920 great review or four star rating even while you're at it, I also recommend 703 00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:16.840 you go to crypto podcast dot com and see all my other podcasts and websites 704 00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:22.199 for the world of bitcoin. There's a lot of no look at. Thanks 705 00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:25.400 for listening to the Cryptocusins podcast. Please share the show with your friends. 706 00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:30.400 They can subscribe by going to cryptocusins dot com slash subscribe, and if you 707 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:35.199 want to know more about Gary, just go to Gary Leland dot com. 708 00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:39.039 Make sure and join Gary and all the cryptocusins every week for a new episode 709 00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:46.039 of the Cryptocusins podcast. The Cryptocusins podcast and the information included in the podcast 710 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:52.639 are not intended as investment advice. Investing in any cryptocurrency is risky and you 711 00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:55.920 should never invest more than you can afford to lose. Always seek professional advice 712 00:43:55.960 --> 00:44:01.000 before investing in any cryptocurrency. Please unders stand you are using any and all 713 00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:15.119 information from the Cryptocosins at your own risk.