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Hey, thanks for being a part
of the conversation. We recently spoke with

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Daniel jose Older. The first part
of our talk is a little distorted,

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and hang with me because it'll clear
up. But it is such an important

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conversation for creative minds as well as
his book. So thank you for being

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so forgiving right in the very beginning. It was something that we couldn't miss

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and we couldn't edit out. And
I think you'll understand why. Hello,

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and good morning. How are you
doing today? Good morning, I'm doing

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great. How are you just sitting
here listening to that voice of your See

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now, I wanted to know what
your voice sounded like because you speak so

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highly of music and I can hear
it in your tones. For you to

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be that writer that knows how to
connect readers to the storyline, what is

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that like and what what did it
require in your journey to get to this

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moment? Thank you so much.
First of all, journey, I was

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a paramedic for ten years in New
York City on the ambulance, and then

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at some time I'm really focused on
online as where I wanted to throw all

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of my artistic concentration. That was
that was it for me. So I

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really went into that, uh,
to surrounding myself with stories, you know,

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whether those books, movies, video
games, shows people on the corner,

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and you know, there's the longest
full of stories. And I really

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wanted to take them apart and put
them back together to see what makes them

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tick. And that was one of
my process when I sat down to write

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my first book. So when when
you say that you to put things together

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and stuff, because I mean this
right here, this is this is the

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final walk with this saga. Will
will you step back into it and find

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newer layers so you can continue that
journey with with those that you've already captured

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as the listeners and readers. You
know, I think I might. I

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don't know the answer yet. I
know this particular story in this moment was

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really a two book story, right
and and this is so this is the

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Outwall Sience series. It's about sixteen
year old plan Partigy Matello motifs just attack

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under his newfound healing powers on this
ancient eagle ris in this community and it

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comes from the shadowy history of their
magical lost island and he sees the girl

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that he has a crush on murder
something right in front of his face.

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That story, like that little seed
of a story. I knew that was

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a two book situation. So we're
finishing that story with last canto, The

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Dead Tomorrow. M But it's a
huge world, and as you can hear

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from the concept, there's a ton
of history there and I could absolutely see

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going all the way back in time
and figuring out how it all came together.

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Let's see. That's the reason.
That's the reason why I asked that

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question, because I mean, it
seems like you're just barely scratching the surface.

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Yeah, it's an in depth story. It's an in depth, you

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know, journey for all of your
readers. But it's it's like, oh

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no, no, no, Daniel, this cannot be the last one,

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and as a reader, I'm going
to refuse to accept it as a last

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one. Well, I appreciate that. That's the best kind of a reader.

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So when when you do step into
the world of folklore, I mean,

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that's that's continuity that you You've got
to be a well disciplined researcher to

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make sure that you stay true to
what's going on. That's right, that's

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right, And this book in particular
the culture of the island that they all

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come from, which is a fantastical, imaginary island called son Maddgao in the

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Caribbean. That is a place that
it was full of pirates of Stephardic Jews,

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u of Santetos from Cuba. Right, So there's all these cultures mixed

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in with each other, and they
in turn created new gods and spirits and

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demons and everything else. And yes, it was a lot, but I

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had so much fun putting all these
ideas together and bringing in all these different

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monsters and spirits and everything else that
it was just like it. It felt

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very natural in my head. It
came to life, and so it felt

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very natural to just keep going with
it. And that was the process.

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It's fun, and I totally believe
that even today these spirits and monsters continue.

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We just can't see them, but
if you, if you listen carefully

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through meditation, they're there. They're
knocking on our hearts. Absolutely. That's

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it. That's the whole concept of
the book right there. To go into

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that realm, do you feel it? I mean, do you do you

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call to it? How how do
you get into that moment where you really

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bring out the character of what's going
on. Yeah, it's such a good

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question because I think that's something we
all struggle with as writers. Right.

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One thing that I always tell my
students, and I know helped me a

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lot. I always tell people to
take one acting class if you want to

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be a writer. Yea, And
it seems backwards. I mean, you

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should obviously study writing too, but
when you act, when you perform,

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you take on that persona of that
character, and you make decisions as that

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character, not in an intellectual way
where sometimes as writers we get caught up

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in our head, right and we're
like, oh, what would this character

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do? The quest? That's the
wrong question, Like, really, what

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we have to be asking us those
I am this character? What would I

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do? What am I about to
do based on this r That's a totally

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different question in the way that when
you bring these characters to life, that

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you you have the power and the
energy to carry them beyond the page.

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Because I mean, that's one of
the hardest things for me to do as

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a writer, is that I can't
set a book down when I'm finished with

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it and just walk away. I
have to mourn their loss. M that's

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so beautiful. It's true you know, I think that comes from really giving

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them full flashdown lives, so it's
not just about the decisions and making in

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the moment, like what we were
just talking about. That's that's the book,

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right, that's the story of the
book. But for them to really

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come alive and walk off the page, they have to have histories. They

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have to have memories. They have
to have relationships, communities and relationships to

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their own histories. And if we
think about each of us has that and

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they come out in different ways,
they manifest in different ways, and maybe

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not all those things will certainly not
all those things they're gonna make it to

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the page, like just like with
research. You know, they say,

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like you research a hundred different books
and one of them makes it on the

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page. You know, that's how
it works. But knowing that will affect

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how you write them and who they
are, and that's what brings them to

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life for readers. Part of the
fun of writing to me is the editing

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word. I'm such a stream thinker
that it's like get it out now,

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go back and piece it all together. Do you do the same, you

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know, it's a different process.
I love that you're writing. This is

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so great to talk about with another
writer. It's for me. Every process,

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every book has a different process,
Every project really requires me to like

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approach it differently. So I lost
as a perfect example, book One Ballot

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and Dagger right, which came out
last year. I outlined I outlined the

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outlines of that book. I mean
I had multiple drafts of the outline,

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like I went all the way and
then there was like the process of writing.

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It was kind of filling in those
outlines for last conso of the Dead,

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for whatever reason, I just had
to sit down and let it ripe.

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I did not know chapter by chapter
of what was going to happen.

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They call it gardening, right,
And I just planted the seeds and I

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helped them grow and cultivated them as
best I could. And here we are

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today. So it really depends on
the book. You're so right about that

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about about planting the seeds. I
talk about that all the time. Plant

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the seed, take care of the
soil, let it grow, and then

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and then share the harvest. That's
it. That's it, and it's magic,

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right, It feels like magic.
Like I don't know if you've had

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that experience. I'm sure you haven't. Where you you put something in the

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beginning of the book and you're like, I don't know why this is here.

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I don't know what it's going to
mean. And then you're like three

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quarters of the way through and you're
like, oh man, I need that

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guy, and there he is,
like ready to go jump into action.

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It's the best feeling. You know. Well, I'm I'm a true believer

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that we're chosen to write. We're
not the actual writers. We just happen

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to know how to put the ink
on the page. Listen. We have

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to step up. And the thing
I love about books is that they to

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write them. It means you have
to step up and become the writer who's

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able to finish them. So every
book you write grows you, like it

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makes you a better person than a
better writer, because you have to figure

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out that puzzle of what the book
is and that's a journey into itself,

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Like that's the writer's journey. Wow, Daniel, you got to come back

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to this show anytime in the future. The door is always going to be

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open for you. Thank you,
sir. I would love to. This

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has been great. You be brilliant
today, Okay, sir, thank you

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and you too.