They warned me not to cross the streams, but I did it anyway.
I would like to welcome to Bigfoot Crossroads a very special guest, another crypted
Matt so to speak, moth Boy, Matt, how are you doing,
man? Yeah, I'm genuine man, I'm glad. I'm glad that you
cross streams. Um, this is this is a long time coming. I'm
very very excited to be on Yeah you are actually, if I'm not mistaken.
On my Friends podcast Laurence Smith. Oh yeah, a long time ago.
Yeah. She uh saying your praises back then and uh, I mean
like moth Boys podcast. Wow, Like you must be stoked, man,
Yeah, you must be absolutely stoked. You guys are on fire. Yeah.
Yeah, it's it's it's wild because it's it's it's. Um. It's
really hard for niche subjects um like cryptozoology and the paranormal to catch, but
when you're like a comedy podcast, it's even harder. Yeah. For some
reason, we did. And God have mercy on her soul. You know,
we just had our four year episode not long ago. Um. We
interviewed Eduardo Sanchez for that and that was that was a lot of fun talking
with him. Um talked about Blair Witch and like he's totally obsessed with big
Foot and his Star Wars nerd Um is off the charts. It's wild.
He's a great guy. Um. But yeah, yeah, I'm I'm I'm,
I'm so excited to be on here. Um. I've heard great things
and I started listening and I totally got hooked. So I am, I
am honored to be on. Well, I I greatly appreciate it. Um,
you and your podcast have been on my radar forever, you know,
Like I was saying earlier, I've been around for a really long time.
I'm I'm pretty I'm getting up there. I don't like to talk about my
age, but a fine one. That's right, man, that's right.
But I mean we're good, man, because you know, I grew up
in the age of the original Star Wars trilogy, so like you know,
I was raised by Star Wars. I know you did Star Wars, so
oh my god, I love it. You know, it destroys all age
barriers, so it does. I'm fine with it. Man. Uh,
where do I even start with you? Man? Like I I got to
ask the classic question, you know, sure, how did this all start
for you? Why cryptids. What's going on with that? Right? Um?
So my mother was a huge influence. She was always talking about Bigfoot.
So that was always in my kind of in my the environment that I
grew up in since I was a little little kid. And I would actually
go over to my grandma's house because we didn't have a printer, and I
would go over my grandma's and print up like like cases that I found online
and hand them out to other kids to try and make friends. So,
um and let me let let me tell you it. It didn't work.
It didn't work for you. Not great, not great. Um, one
could say it ruined my life. Um no, no, no it was
it was great. I I so I've been obsessed with this stuff, um
since I was very young. And uh, you know that's how it always
got It got started, and you know, it just kind of, uh,
it all fell into fell into place, and this podcast was was destined
to happen. Um. But we we we actually the podcast started. We
got back from um a moth like one of the Mothman festivals. It was
four years ago, um, which feels like forever in podcasting years. Yeah,
yeah, that's like dog years man, right right. Um So it.
We were like, we didn't see a lot of podcasts if like any
as vendors, and we were like, hey, why you know, why
don't we start something, do something like I think Jay came up with the
name moth Boys because you know, it's kind of like we're it's like the
it's like we're it's like boys to men, right, Like moth boys will
eventually get to moth men will eventually be there. But Puberd's the son of
a bit. We just got to get there. Yeah, we'll get there
though. Yeah, I mean I think I see a little bit of stubble
on your podcast face already. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta
whispy mustache going. Yeah, it's nice, it's pretty good. Um.
But yeah, that's how I got into it. So, growing up being
interested in the subject, did you have like some local cre DIDs or urban
legends in your area that we're just like fascinating to you or anything. There's
always been like a plethora of, um, big foot sightings in western New
York. Um. I grew up in a small town called Asheville, New
York. It's a town of about thirteen hundred people. Yeah, yeah,
and it was it was great growing growing up out in the country. It
really helped form who I became UM and so I was always obsessed with the
big foot stuff. But high school came and I read a book called The
Complete Guide the Mysterious Beings by John Keel. And in that book there was
an anonymous letter to John Keel from a boy in Sherman, a teenager,
and it was about a this boy and his family were seeing um white giant
ground slots just in the next town over from mine. And it was so
seeing that he called it. Now John Keel called it the Beast of Sherman.
But it was just it was just so wild to read something that was
like, oh, that's like that's my area, that's the next town over
from me, and it just it totally, it just got me deeper into
the subject. And so you know, there's there's places like that in Guernsey
Hollow Um, which is this really haunted cemetery UM. But it really it
really opened it fully opened the world to like, um, the paranormal and
cryptozoology, uh and and and and specifically for Western New York like it.
It made me dive deeper into everything strange going on around here. So fast
forward to reason, uh, or at least reason for me. You guys
actually released a book about the white Monsters of Sherman, New York. Do
you want to talk about that? Yeah? Yeah, So we um all
got together and we were like, hey, you know, like, let's
let's try and find this this like anonymous person um that had written it's really
difficult. Whenever I got the book myself, okay, yeah, I'm a
supporter, I'm a fan. And whenever I read that, like you took
some letter published in a book from a long time ago, this anonymous letter
of a boy, and managed to track that person down and find them in
content. I mean, that's mind blowing, dude, Like, kudos to
you guys. That's insane. Thank you and thank you and and it is
a big deal because, like you know, it's the Moth Boys were a
comedy podcast, and you know, we don't have the best attention, and
like you know, so it is a big thank you. It is a
big deal. It's so yeah, it was. It happened we the so
the story takes place in the sixties. But like we got together and we
were like, we all love this story, and so we were like,
hey, let's try and like find this person and interview them on the podcast.
So we went to like Facebook, like local Facebook groups and like asked
people. We looked through phone books and found like common names like in the
area, and we did everything. We would go through town and ask people.
And then one day we got an email back. This guy was like,
that's my father and he's been telling me that story since I was a
kid. I can only imagine what it was like when you read that email.
I know, I it was just it was like ship Like I just
got goosebumps. And you know, we told him what we are, and
we were very upfront on what kind of podcast we are. You know,
we're a comedy podcast on cryptids and the paranormal. But this is an influential
story and we are not here to poke fun if that's what anyone is worried
about. We're here, UM, just as admirers and UM. And he's
like, here, I'll give you his email, and then we started corresponding
through email, UM, and then it was phone calls, UM and uh.
Yes, this man's name was John Goodwill and he is now a UM
retired biology teacher and living in Ohio. And it was great. He actually
said that that these experiences helped push him into the field of biology. Wow,
which was which was really cool, And so we got him to come.
We rented out the community center in Sherman, New York, and he
came and did the interview and showed us around where he had all these experiences
with his family. After that, we were like, we we want this
to reach a wider audience, like more of this needs to be pushed out.
So we got the book and we were when we really started developing it,
I was like, I was like, I want this to be just
like like a little bit more professional, but kind of like something an old
investigator would write in like a case file and have like the interview with like
pictures and like do the whole thing and like And it turned out just the
way, like just the way I imagined it. Yeah, there's no fluff.
There's just like here are the different things that happened, the different experiences
happened to him. They're right there. That's it. There's beautiful drawings by
Jonathan Dodd. Him and John Goodwill worked closely together, and it was pretty
incredible, uh, seeing John's reaction to it, because he's like, that's
it, Like that's what it was. Wow. Um. And then Todd
Purse, Um, he's another artist and podcaster, a great person. Um,
he formatted the book. We've sold well over five copies, I think
more more towards six hundred copies already. That's great, man. It's been
a little over I think it's a couple of days over a month that we
released it. Um, we're really proud of it. But yeah, yeah,
so that was that was just like it was. I was honestly when
he first told us everything, like he got emotional and we got him emotional.
Is a very powerful moment. And I was a little star struck two
because I just I don't think he knew how him important. That letter that
he wrote to John Keel was, you know, for me and for the
rest of the moth Boys and the you know, kind of laid the foundation
of the path that led you to where you are today. And yeah,
producing the book and meeting them that that's crazy, man, that's a fantastic
story. And you know, I just think it's so cool, you know,
especially coming from the old school, that you guys actually put it out
in a physical copy book, you know, I think that's awesome. Yeah,
And What makes me really happy is that John's story is getting told and
the imagery is there with the paintings and we have investigative photos and it just
it came together so well, and honestly it does. It. It's like
it's like this is something that like Gray Barker would write in his heyday,
you know, and it just it felt I don't know, Yeah, it
had that. It definitely had that old school feel to it, with you
know, the location photos and you know, pictures of the witness pointing,
you know, like it was so cool man like like I picked up on
all that, and you know, I want people to buy the book,
m for sure, but I do want to say that, like so going
into it, that that story seems a little crazy, you know, right,
and on the outside of it being like, you know, well it
was like a teenage boy that wrote in everything. But what teenage boy is
going to make up seeing a groundsloth? First off, like, right,
that's not where they and he didn't even know what a groundsloth was. Really,
it just doesn't make sense, Like that doesn't make sense for a young
boy to right, Yeah, and it was so what I've really got attached
to at the end of that letter. Um, you know he is addressing
mister Keel and and he says, um, he says, I'm fifteen years
old. Um, He's like, i am fifteen years old. Please believe
me. Um, I'm not kidding. I'm seeing these things. And like
it's kind of it. I feel like with kids, a lot of folks
just chalk it up to their imagination. But you have this like kid like
bagging saying like please believe me, Like you know, I'm I'm a kid,
but please believe me because um, you know a lot of people didn't.
Yeah, and uh, it wasn't just him though, it was his
family and what the neighbor saw it, and like, you know, this
whole area had sightings of these creatures and its a whole family unit. It
wasn't just one, you know. I mean, yeah, there's a lot
of things where you know, as a former you know, bigfoot investigator,
whatever you want to call it, there's certain earmarks to it that stand out
as honesty and truth, you know, and h And another aspect of it
is like it seemed like he was genuinely wanting help, you know, like
hey, come here, like I'll show it to you, Like he's not
just making up a story to get attention. Yeah, and it's it's cool
because it John Keel isn't our favorite investigator. He's a great investigator, but
um but I feel like we're just like adding on to the work that he
could have done. He chose not to. You know, he he wrote
back and said like, hey, you know, I can't investigate all of
these um but he ended up putting it in his book, so you know,
it was you know, there's that. Yeah, thanks for the content,
kid, Yeah, yeah, right right. You know. One of
the one of the things that really got me, and I think it got
the rest of the moth Boys too, was you know, when we were
talking to John and he told us for the first time you know what,
you know, he was a literal little teary eyed, and so were we,
and he was just saying, like, you know, I thought that
I was going to go to my grave with this story. Um and you
know, not getting his story out. And and I think it's so important
to to give people that. I think I think his story is. I
think his story is important. I think I think a lot of these sightings,
I think story he's told by humans to other humans I just think experiences
need to be I don't know, I just think that's an intricate part of
humanity. Um and and this subject has always been I've always been obsessed with
the very human aspects of everything because it's it's not just about the you know,
anomaly that was seen. It, it's very much about the people involved.
I mean, I couldn't agree more. That's, you know, literally
what this podcast is all about, you know, the human aspect, the
human story. Letting the witnesses, you know, describe the events and tell
their story and get it off their chests. I mean, you know,
I've been out in the field. You know, I can talk about all
the data and you know how to properly cast a track and you know,
things like that. And I know that a lot of people listen to those
sort of podcasts, and there's a lot of those podcasts out there. But
I just think, you know, there's been too many debates about whenever it
comes to eyewitness reports, how well, you know, humans are flawed and
memory is flawed, and you know this and that, and it almost seemed
like for a long time, witnesses were getting discarded, you know, because
when held up to scrutiny and skepticism. You know, it doesn't work.
You need you need the data, you need the research. You know,
you got to show them the numbers. You gotta show them the proof,
the physical evidence, and that's what they want. And uh, I didn't
want to see the witnesses get discarded like that. I wanted to put them
back in the spotlight because that's what drew me into this, right, And
I think you're right. I think there's something there there. There's always been
something there, that human element. And uh, yeah, I applaud you
for putting it out there. I'm not. I'm not. That's do you
make a great point, it's um without I would. I think eyewitness testimony
when it comes to the pay a normal or cryptozoology, is the most important
piece of evidence because for most of these things there's almost no way to scientifically
prove it. If you could apply the scientific method to this, people would
have by no, these things are so anomalous, have to come across you
know, again, tracks a body something, but even tracks, you know
what I mean, those can be those can be fake. So I you
know, I think it's healthy to bring a slight skeptical mind to things but
also I don't think it's healthy to be a complete skeptic because I think skeptics
will automatically dismiss things that don't make sense to them or what or their knowledge
on the known universe or you know, what they know about science currently.
And I know I know a lot of folks that are complete skeptics and do
that unfortunately. Um but without the eyewitness, without that piece, we got
nothing. Without the eyewitness, none of us would be here right now,
uh to doing this, I mean, plain and simple. Yeah, it's
it's it's very that's that's the most important part in all of this is the
eyewitness. So like people discrediting folks because they don't have evidence, It's like,
well, if you're doing it that way, then like none of us
do you know, there's very few instances of actual evidence, Like you know,
you come across footage or photographs which are great or like audio, um,
but anything past that, you know what I mean, Like, so
you do that? I think it's I think it's you've got to you kind
of have to make a judgment. You have to be in this field.
You have to be like good with people and good at reading people. Um.
But yeah, I think, yeah, I think you're I think you're
right at this This whole cryptozoology is a very human a very human subject,
and and there's weird things out there, and there's I think I think people
should be okay with us not knowing things, because I do think human are
understanding can only go so far. And I think there are things that we
don't understand and can't and won't understand because we physically can. So speaking of
eye witnesses, what's something you've experienced that has no explanation in science. I
have a couple. So my my buddy and I we would go night hiking,
and again I grew about in the country. We would just point in
a direction, hike and hike and hike, and then when we got tired,
we would just camp out wherever we were where it whether it was like
a marsh or a field or just in the middle of the forest. But
we came to this field that was enclosed by a draft horse fence, went
under the draft horse fence and then came out the other side and went into
the woods a little ways. We hiked in a bit and in the area
where I lived, there are folks that live off the grid, and in
the woods, and they don't like to be bothered. So you're always taught
that if you see like a fire pit or if you see fire in the
woods, you're supposed to not go towards it, just because you just don't
know. And so my friend and I see this blue light and we were
like, we thought it was like light because of the way it was moving.
It was kind of moving like up and down. We thought it was
maybe someone running. It was just a dissan. It was just a light
um, just like like this blue this blue light, and it was a
bit darker in the center. Him and I we both froze. I froze,
and we had we had like machetes because we were going through like stick
the thick um, and so we were kind of hacking pads. Flight and
fight mode went in at once. UM can't I can't describe it. I
felt it was like I felt my body felt like butter and I couldn't move,
but I remember grabbing the handle of the machete very tightly, and it
felt like my body was just mushy. I don't know how long we were
there for. I woke out of it and hit him and both of us
started to run. My adrenaline was pumping so much. I forgot about the
draft horse and ran right into the draft horse fence and it was barbed and
I went into my leg and then I went into another part of me near
my leg, and I like ripped it out, um and started hacking because
I was like in panic mode. Um. I was hacking at this barbed
wire. My friend was smarter than I and shot underneath the fence and I
went down and the them went into his eyelid and ripped his eyelid. We
ran and ended up in this field and we just laid down in the field
until the next morning because if you know, everyone and their mothers has a
gun out here, so like they see people walking around their property, you
don't know who's just gonna pop you. So we laid down in the field
and waited until morning and went up to the farmer you know, and then
asked where we were, and we had run to the next town over.
I don't remember running that far, but we got that far. Wow.
Yeah. Yeah. So you know, I think having these things happened to
you it changes you in a way, because like at that time, I
don't know, I didn't really believe in like the paranormal I didn't believe in,
Like I was totally obsessed with legend and lore and and like was down
with cryptids, but like anything weird, like paranormal stuff like that, I
was like, no, I don't, I don't. I don't believe in
that. And then you have something that happens and it totally just flips you
on your head and you have to You have to when you experience these things
and pushes you deeper into it. But it also makes you you have to
readjust you you know, I think I think a lot of folks like to
think that they know um everything that in cases the natural world and what we
know about it, and you gotta adjust. Um. You just have to
adjust um um because you can't just pretend that it didn't happen. It's it's
difficult, you know, it is difficult. It's it's it's admitting that you're
wrong and admitting that this thing was something that I have no idea what it
was, but you know, it's kind of it expands your mind a bit
as well, and it makes you realize that that it's humbling. It makes
you realize that you know, you you don't know everything you know and you
and that's okay, and you know, there's there's things out there that are
just unexplainable. Once that happened, it's just it was life changing. It
was just and there has there has been like looking into it. In the
western New York area, there's lots of like mystery lights, and um,
I don't know, I just I was I was looking into anything that it
could have been the closest thing. It felt like it could have been or
maybe wasn't. But just like the description, it was like like you know,
the low whisp or willow the whisp. Yeah, it's it's like it
was like that, like it made me feel a certain way and just wanted
to Yeah, it was just like a warm, melting feeling. I don't
know what it was. That's really interesting. You know, I'm in Oklahoma
and we have you know, what we call spook lights or double lights or
whatever. It's same thing. And I've never personally seen one. I've seen
photos, I've seen videos, I've talked to multiple witnesses, you know,
and they seem to exist all over the United States. Um, but you're
the first person that I've talked to that's talked about it, like having some
sort of physical effect on them. Yeah, and uh that that's pretty crazy,
man. I mean you must, like I can just tell from you
know, the story and you know your reaction or anything like whenever you kind
of snapped out of it and came to I mean, it sounds like you're
terrified. Sounds pretty scary. Yeah yeah, I was. It was um
you know, uh, I'm more terrified. Like my adrenaline had kicked in,
right, and so it was like survival type thing. But like like
when I slowed down and started to and like remember the events, that's when
it became like terrifying to me. What what did your friends say about it?
What was his reaction? He doesn't he doesn't know either. He had
the same reaction as me. Uh. Um, you know, just like
what the hell was that like? And he's he's not into he's not into
any of this, and that that thing, whatever it was, did not
get him into this sedious Um yeah yeah, but he was. I mean
he was just as as frantic. Um you know, I I think,
Um, that's still like we still when we get together, we still talk
about that, but it's it's um, you know, it just like you
know Hey, what do you think it is? Like that type of thing?
And it again it's something anomalous. Well, we'll never understand. And
maybe these things are you know, come from a place where we can't understand
it scientifically. Maybe that's just not an option, maybe because we only know
what we know about about about nature and and you know, if there's something
that's beyond that, that's something that is of course it's natural because it's a
part of this world or somewhere else. It's it's of course that's that's nature.
But it's nature we just don't understand. So, since you've been doing
the podcast verything, Uh, what's one of your more favorite stories that you've
heard or encounters that you've ran across. Oh man, we've covered a lot
of really cool stuff. Um. I love the Lone Pine Mountain Devils.
I think that Storry is just so cool. My favorite episode we did and
was probably the Dragons episode. I did this episode on dragons and how biologically
they could have existed, and like it was just like a whole fun like
because I'm a huge fantasy narrative, I've always been obsessed with like giant like
prehistoric you know, mega fun Anna and flora like that kind of stuff.
But you know, I definitely, I definitely love the long Pine Mountain Devils,
which were these like winged dinosaurs that tore apart a caravan. It's surprising
that though in the little over four years we've been a podcast, we've done
like like ninety six episodes or something, which is wild because some podcasts have
double or triple that by that And I'm like, I'm like, are we
a lazy podcast? Is this? I could see us doing a podcast episode
every week maybe, But you know, I think there's lots of times where
we're just like, all right, let's take like a month break and then
we'll come back to it, and just because it's like, you know,
life happens and right, um, but yeah, usually Christmas will take a
break. Um, but we kind of make up for it for our spook
taculars. We do four or five episodes every year in October, um,
make up for it. But yeah, I think I think we're the world's
most We're pretty unprofessional. I think. I don't know, because I just
like I feel like our number, like, like, are the we shouldn't
be under one hundred episodes in four and a half years. That just I
don't think that should have been a thing. But you guys put out good,
genuine work, so be proud of your accomplishment. Man. You know
there's other podcasts that don't even last a year, let alone four years,
So don't be too hard on yourself. Man. Anyways, Moth Boys podcast,
What what's something that's on? You know? What do you got on
the moth Boys bucket list? Well, I do want to. I would
love to go UM and visit the UM the Patty site. I think that
would be UM. I know it's completely looks completely different due to you know,
UM flooding and UM stuff like that, but uh, yeah, I
think I think that would be that would be great. UM. When it
comes to a bucket list, I'm just you know, I'm hoping we last,
you know, until until we we go insane from all of this.
But I just I hope we continue to be able to go to shows and
THEND and travel and do what we have been doing. UM. But you
know it's uh, moth Boys usually take like a crypted road trip, visit
a bunch of different places. Last time we went to UM Whitehall, New
York, and went to UM the New England area, Before we wrap up,
let's talk about Crypti Bash. Yeah. So Crypto Bash is an annual
event that UM that we that that we throw in West Virginia. This year
it's going to be in Hiko, West Virginia at Free Folk Brewery. UM.
We're gonna have vendors, live MUSICUM brews, food trucks, a bunch
of events. It's going to be a great time. It's all ages,
it's free, there's an after party that everyone is welcome to. And yeah,
it's just going to be fantastic. Last year was great. Um.
Last year we had a little over a thousand people attending. And this new
spot is right near New River Gorge. So plan a weekend where you can
just hike and you know, go squatching. That's awesome, man, Congratulations
on the success of that. I know it keeps on growing and getting bigger
and more popular and it's really cool. Man. It sounds like it's almost
getting to festival status. Yeah, it'll get there right now. It's like
it feels like you get there. It's something so different because it's so diverse.
Every every other year we do speakers, and all of our speakers are
you know, underrepresented folks in the community, um and just badass, badass
people that have been doing it for a long time. UM people. It's
cool to see old heads and the younger crowd like mixing because I feel like
so much there um, specifically in the in the big Foot community, there
is so there's like almost like a divide between the old and young heads.
Which is which is? Which is? Because there's so much I think I
think there's a lot of folks that are it's the whole flesh and blood thing.
But yeah, this this is like you see young folks, old folks,
people, people from all walks of life. It's just a very special
event and y'all should come for sure. Moth Boy Matt, thank you for
joining me. Thank you. Where can people find you? Everywhere? Of
course moth Bloy's podcast past. I'm sure it's available on every platform out there
except for YouTube. We're not on YouTube yet, not on YouTube. On
YouTube, come on over, man, the water's warm. It's great,
all right, great, well started, we started page. But thanks for
having me on. This was such a blast. Huge fan of your podcast,
and I can't I can't wait to see what else here you you you
have coming, oh for sure, and if you've had an encounter with something
you can't explain. Send me an email at Bigfootcrossroads at gmail dot com.
Check out Bigfootcrossroads dot com for all the links to the social media, merchandise,
contact info, everything you need, all in one place. And until
next time, remember there's something in the woods.