WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:09.679 Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of JavaScript Jabber. This week on 2 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:14.839 our panel we have Steve Edwards. Oh ajs here, so I can't use 3 00:00:14.919 --> 00:00:19.519 the yo yo yo, so I had to say hello from a still cloudy 4 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:24.280 and rainy Portland. But for those of us skiers, we're still getting snow 5 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:28.000 up in the mountains blowing pretty hard. So it's great for late spring skiing. 6 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:32.840 Yeah, it was wet here. And then when I was driving my 7 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:36.159 daughter to school, we saw a couple of vehicles with snow on them that 8 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:40.359 must have come down out of the canyon or something. We also have aj 9 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:42.799 O'Neil oh, go ahead, I think, I say. Yeah. When 10 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:46.000 you get up above start to where you climb up mountain head towards timberline, 11 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:51.679 it's immediate change and you're still getting blowing snow. Nice, it's crazy. 12 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:56.600 It's great for skiing. I was up yesterday it was awesome. Nice all 13 00:00:56.679 --> 00:01:00.679 right. We also have a j O'Neil yo yo yo. Then actually from 14 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:07.000 the fish room, what's the fishroom? Fish room? Yeah? Is that 15 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:11.560 an aquarium over there? Yes? Yeah, you can't really see it, 16 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:17.480 king, but no, it's pretty small. Yeah, So I've got like 17 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:23.400 ten aquariums in here right now. So during the long hiatus, I got 18 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:30.239 into aquaria. That was my my winter depression hobby. I got to pick 19 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:34.680 for you. I got a great pick for you when we get to picks. 20 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:38.920 Excellent, right. Are you an aquarius? Is that one of the 21 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:41.560 signs? Or am I just making that up? No, it's actually an 22 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:45.519 aquarium. No, I'm kidding. Yes, it's aquarius. A person who's 23 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:52.040 into aquaria is an aquarius. Wow, things I never needed to I mean, 24 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.560 we also have Dan Shapier. Hello from a warm in sunny Tel Aviv, 25 00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:00.200 which somehow didn't prevent me from getting this really bad cold for the entire 26 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:05.480 week. You do know that getting a cold has nothing to do with temperature, 27 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:09.879 right, Yeah, that's not true. It changes in the weather. 28 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:15.960 I think like changes make you more susceptible. Yeah, it's it's stressed to 29 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:19.759 your body. When the temperature swings or when you're cold for a long period 30 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:23.840 of time, your immune system dips, so bacteria and viruses that are all 31 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:29.599 around you that weren't affecting you then suddenly affect you. Also. Also, 32 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:35.120 I became allergic to the earth. By the way, since since last time 33 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:39.319 we spoke, I have allergies now, first time, Yeah, I think 34 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:42.439 so. Yeah, I wake up in the morning. Well, actually it 35 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:45.840 hasn't been so bad. It's like three weeks or so. I wake up 36 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:47.719 in the morning. My eyes were itchy. It sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, 37 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:51.319 sneeze, sneeze. Oh, it was terrible. Well, it's hitting 38 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:53.039 close to hay fever time, which is what I get. Although here's been 39 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:55.800 so wet that it's keeping everything down. But this is the best time of 40 00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:00.439 year that I get hate faver. I get that too. It up that 41 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:04.680 the rain that we get is like the light rain that you get, so 42 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:08.080 it's just enough to like everything bloom like crazy. Yeah. So I haven't 43 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:12.919 had a cold, but I've had a lot of that what AJ's complaining about 44 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:15.080 for the last few weeks. So I just I live on my zertech. 45 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:19.919 I have it at my desk because I just just take it as soon as 46 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:23.080 I say, yeah, I know what you mean. Anyway, I'm Charles 47 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:25.800 Maxwood from top End Devs. This intro is taking forever, so I'm just 48 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:30.280 gonna skip all the pleasantries go check out JavaScript Geniuses dot com. And we 49 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:36.919 have a special guest this week, and that is Lazarre Nikolov. Did I 50 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.639 get anywhere close? Those are right? Yeah, it's on Nicolo and things 51 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:46.680 are That's what I meant to say. You were close. You got the 52 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:52.400 syllables right, just in the wrong pronunciation. Yeah. Anyway, uh we 53 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:57.599 brought sentry well zar after listening to all that or was that just so entertaining 54 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.319 that you're on the edge of your seat now I'm on? All right? 55 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:04.759 Okay, good? Yeah, all the back and forth, Matt Henderson from 56 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:09.800 Century recommended that we have you on talk about web performance stuff and maybe some 57 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.879 of the stuff that Century provides, and so, yeah, do you want 58 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:16.240 to just fill us in on who what else we need to know about you? 59 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:20.279 We had a long discussion about Macedonia before you, yeah jumped in. 60 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:26.639 So yeah, well, thanks Matt for recommending me. Thanks Bud. But 61 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:30.920 yeah, I'm Loasa Nikoleff. I'm a part of the DEFL team here at 62 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:36.399 Century, and I'm all about web performance. That's my main focus. Very 63 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:41.519 cool. Oh, I'm really I really love web performance. I think it 64 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:47.120 right. Yeah, so so I'm a little curious just as we get into 65 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:49.920 this, you know, and and Dan fills us in periodically, it's like, 66 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:54.319 hey, there's this thing, but but what kinds of things do you 67 00:04:54.360 --> 00:05:00.120 focused on at Century as far as making people's web apps more performance or more 68 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:05.000 user friendly or you know whatever it is that you know you're you're working on 69 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:10.000 these days in the web performance arena. Yeah, so I'm focused on the 70 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:15.199 educational parts, and not necessarily just a Century educational part, but just like 71 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:23.399 in general, you know how to how to develop good developing habits, so 72 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:29.639 your performance is in order. Basically that's all I do. But so you 73 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:34.160 know what, if maybe I do want to direct us first, it's slightly 74 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:39.560 a different direction because we have been speaking about performance a lot on this podcast 75 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:43.800 of late, but we've not spoken about Century in a while. I mean, 76 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:46.240 we've had some people from Centry, like I think like a year or 77 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:51.040 two ago, but maybe some of our listeners somehow are not familiar with who 78 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:57.079 Century are or what Centry is and what it's spring to the table. So 79 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.680 maybe we should actually start a little bit talking about Century before we then go 80 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:10.720 talk specifically about Century and performance. Yeah sounds good, Should I go for 81 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:15.480 it? Yeah? Awesome? Yeah. So, for those for those of 82 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.680 you who don't know, Century is an aer monitoring and APM solution for any 83 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:25.199 of your web apps and mobile apps, and I don't know desktop apps and 84 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:31.199 anything basically, So what it does is it offers I would say that like 85 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:36.800 the best in class AER monitoring. Every time something wrong happens in your app, 86 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:40.040 you get an email, you get a Slack message, you get a 87 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:44.680 team's message. If you're there, you get a you get Paige if you're 88 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:47.279 on page duty, you get a ticket in Gira, et cetera, et 89 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:50.839 cetera. You just get annoyed basically from all the sides. Uh. And 90 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:55.600 that's just for the AER monitoring. Aside from just telling you you know your 91 00:06:55.639 --> 00:07:00.319 apps on fire, you just get a whole bunch of COOLU for information like 92 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:05.160 hardware info, software info, what the user is if you know you have 93 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:11.920 configured tracking users, et cetera. Yeah, all you need in order to 94 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:15.839 fix the PUNK. So that is the error site. And there's also the 95 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:19.600 performance side, or just in general a PM, because there's more than just 96 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:32.000 performance. You get monitoring for web vitals, networks resources traces, which are 97 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:39.120 becoming like a central part at Century right now. And yeah, it's it's 98 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:45.040 it's a tool that you install in your application, whatever the SDK is. 99 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:49.720 We pretty much have support for all of them, and it lets you know 100 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:56.480 and when something bad happens, and it keeps your performance in order. That's 101 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:00.439 basically what Century is. So first of all, you use the m a 102 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:05.160 PM. Can you explain what that means? Yeah, it's application performance monitoring. 103 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:13.000 Now if we if Yeah, it's continuously what Sorry, it's basically continuously 104 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:24.240 measuring and reporting metrics such as web VITYLS and what else. Yeah, Like 105 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:31.399 I mentioned resources that your website is pulling in network requests that you know the 106 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:37.200 app is uh triggering, et cetera. Now if we start with with the 107 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:41.159 legacy stuff. Sorry chuck you what you were starting to say. I was 108 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:43.159 just going to say, you know, when you asked what it measured? 109 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.279 I mean, we keep hearing web vitals. We talked a lot about that, 110 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:52.879 but I've also seen them track other things. Right, so core web 111 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:56.240 vitals is usually used for se O. You can go listen to a handful 112 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:01.639 of episodes we've done, but I've also seen it tracked how long certain function 113 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.360 calls take, or on the back end, how much time it's taking to 114 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:09.480 access the database and execute queries and things like that, or how long this 115 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.600 request took to a back end or an API or things like that, So 116 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:18.919 it's more than just web vitals, but a lot of the business folks, 117 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.039 that's what they're going to care about. They're going to care about how performance 118 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:26.480 is it and doesn't match the web vitles so that we can show up higher 119 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:31.120 in the list on Google. Although, to be fair, and I keep 120 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.720 saying that, I mean, on the one hand, it's a really good 121 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:41.879 thing that Google made performance or coed vitals a ranking signal because it really pushes 122 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:50.039 the entire industry to improve that aspect of web websites and web applications. But 123 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:58.840 the reality is that the impact on ranking in most cases is not that massive. 124 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:05.159 To be honest, it's often considered to be a tie breaker rather than 125 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.399 a decider. Like the big aspects of ranking are still things like you know, 126 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:15.120 content, content is king, so whether it's relevant content, and also 127 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:20.960 authority, like you know, if you're going to ask something related to a 128 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:24.320 health or medicines, then the CDC or something like that will come up first 129 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:28.559 and for good reasons. Or if you ask something about the news, then 130 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:33.159 CNN will likely appear high in the search results, even though their performance is 131 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:41.759 historically atrocious because it's more about those aspects. But first of all, it 132 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:46.919 still is important because it can be a tie breaker. But more significantly than 133 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:52.440 that, it actually has significant impact on user experience once they're in the page 134 00:10:52.519 --> 00:11:00.279 or in the website. And lots of research has shown that when performances poor, 135 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:05.039 bouncer it is high and conversely that when performance is good, then conversion 136 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:11.919 is high. So there's definitely a significant motivation to improve that. But again 137 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:16.080 I want to pull us back a little bit because again Century is historically been 138 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.840 known for the error tracking and monitoring. I think that's still what most people 139 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.960 think about when they think about Century, So I do want to talk a 140 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:31.200 little bit about this before we dive into performance. If we can, per 141 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.360 my understanding these days, Century is kind of full stack. It does both 142 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:41.840 the front end and the back end and provides a holistic view of all this 143 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.440 information together. Is that a correct summation. Yeah. Basically, when you 144 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:52.120 have multiple projects in Century and you use centries as the case to connect them, 145 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:56.440 you automatically get a distributed traits. You can start looking at the front 146 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:01.240 end and then move on to the back end and database and go back whatever 147 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:09.559 your operation flows are configured and again per my understanding, Century is something that 148 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:15.519 I can install effectively for free on premises, or I can use kind of 149 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:18.399 your hostage server, which then I have to pay for. Is that correct? 150 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:26.039 Yeah? Yeah, it's free self hosted. Yeah, so when I 151 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.879 self host it, it's free. And I think it's also or at least 152 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:39.440 partially open source. It's it's like it's source available. M Yeah, so 153 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:45.960 the license is not mit ah, we came up with our own, but 154 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:52.120 that's just for you know, yeah, like protecting other businesses from you know, 155 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.840 figybacking on the centrin repackaging it. But it is, Yeah, it's 156 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:03.039 source available. So if I have like an error in my JavaScript, you 157 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:07.159 know, something that would get written to the console, or an AJAX call 158 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:16.240 that fails for some reason and uncought promise rejection and uncaught exception so on, 159 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:22.919 so forth, all of these things are collected and then exposed to the site 160 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:31.759 owner through the Century Management console effectively. Fine, if I again understand correctly. 161 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:37.000 Yeah, So, like every SDK has a DSN configured, which is 162 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:41.559 basically a link to where your instance is running. If you're self hosted, 163 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:45.279 you're going to have your own r hotel there, so that basically tells the 164 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:50.960 SDK whatever you capture and you know, measure send it over there. Yeah, 165 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:58.759 so when you're on premise, the data is on your service understood. 166 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:05.639 And one of the things that I recall that I really liked about Century was 167 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:11.360 the fact that it was smart enough to group errors together. Like one of 168 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.519 the problems with a lot of these monitoring solutions is that you could literally drown 169 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:18.480 the sea of errors because, let's face it, you know, so much 170 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:24.720 stuff is getting collected and reported, So you don't want to, you know, 171 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:31.000 have to sift through tons and tons of logs and errors and stuff like 172 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:35.200 that. You want the system to aggregate the results and then just show you, 173 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:37.720 you know, this is something that's important, this is something that you 174 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:43.480 should look at. So that's one thing that I recall about being really powerful 175 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:48.679 with centry. And another thing that I recalled being really powerful with Centriy is 176 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:54.320 the amount of information that was exposed that could help you. Okay, you 177 00:14:54.399 --> 00:15:01.240 know there's and let's say an uncaught a promise to injection. Why like, 178 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.159 what is this promise? What? What's what's the value that it's trying to 179 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:11.480 get. So all this information is also surfaced to you as the website or 180 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:18.039 web application owner. Yeah, totally. I mean you you get all of 181 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:24.840 those information attached to the issue itself to we don't call them crashes or anything. 182 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:30.559 We just call them issues, so like it's it's all there. Yeah. 183 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:35.480 So how then did you actually pivot into performance? I mean, if 184 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:41.240 you had this focus on errors and collecting errors and reporting errors, where's this 185 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:48.120 sudden focus on performance? Where did it come from? I'm not sure to 186 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:52.000 be honest, because I think that was like a few years before I started 187 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:58.320 in Century, But I think it was natural. We got the we had 188 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:03.480 errors, we had tracing, and with tracing you can identify all the performance 189 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:10.679 pattlenecks. There's also a profiling which taps into the hole, connects into the 190 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:17.039 whole tracing and performance topics. So I'm not sure, like what is the 191 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:25.679 exact moment that from tedth Centry to start looking into performance, but we just 192 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:33.240 we just know that performance is super important. Would you say tracing what exactly 193 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:38.240 do you mean? Yeah? I mean we mean like tracing the operation flow 194 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:45.240 for specific operation that can be I don't know, a checkout flow or a 195 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:49.720 log in flow, so as functions execute, and you know API calls get 196 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:59.559 executed. Tracing is basically putting little bread crumbs along the way and then capturing 197 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:03.920 the whole all the whole path of the operation flow, so you can see 198 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:11.480 what where the operation flow went in in I don't know what micro service, 199 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:17.440 and how long it took for each of the functions or whatever you have defined 200 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:22.559 or instrumented. So sort of like a stack trace then with variation. Uh 201 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.880 yeah, stack trace is like a the snapshot of the of the second that 202 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:32.920 specific moment, but tracing is more of a it's like on a on a 203 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:40.920 on a timeline basis where the operation went. So for example, if we 204 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:47.359 start at the front end, we could have some spans, and spans are 205 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:52.119 how we Spans are the things that we used to define the trace, right, 206 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:59.480 so we we basically create a trace and the SDCA automatically does it for 207 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.319 it. But let's say we just create a trace, We get a trace 208 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:10.400 ID, and then we sprinkle around spans which are connected to the trace, 209 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:15.200 but those define what happens at a specific moment. So instead of just console 210 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:22.599 lock I'm here or console lock we reach this point, you're basically creating spans 211 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:27.960 which also have a starting point and ending point. They have tags, you 212 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:33.240 can put tags in them, et cetera. And those don't just stop at 213 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:38.480 the I don't know front end. You could send the trace heather to the 214 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:42.039 back end, then continue the trace on the back end. So then when 215 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:48.599 when you want to debug how a certain operation behaved or like what happened, 216 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:55.240 you see one timeline that combines the data from the front end and the back 217 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:57.200 end, or your back end. If your back end is a micro service 218 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:02.759 architecture, then you'll just have the data from all of the micro services there 219 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:08.480 on one timeline. Let's say. So a question about that, is it 220 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:14.440 kind of like open telemetry traces pretty much? Yeah, And we also have 221 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:22.039 an hotel adapter, so you could use the hotel instrumental instrumental to get the 222 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:27.240 data and then send it to centry as well. There is hotel sorry, 223 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.880 hotel, what is that? All right? That's open telemetry? That is 224 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:38.720 okay, Yeah, that's an open source standard. I would say there's also 225 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:45.319 under and implementation. I think yes, both and implementation and tooling around instrumenting 226 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:49.359 parts of your application. Basically, think about if if you want to like 227 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:55.319 have like a mental image of what is meant by traces as as describe them. 228 00:19:55.359 --> 00:20:00.440 It's kind of similar, kind of similar to what you see in the 229 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:04.720 the performance tab of the Chrome dev tools. Like, so it's kind of 230 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:10.559 or like what is often known as a flame chart. You kind of see 231 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:17.160 each of those traces are like one of the levels in the flame chart. 232 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.680 So you have like a span that starts and ends when a certain operation takes 233 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.720 place, from the beginning to the end of that logical operation. But within 234 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.400 that you have span. So you could think of a function, so you 235 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:34.720 have a span for the execution time of that entire function, but it calls 236 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:40.599 subfunctions and they have their own spans within that span, so you can like 237 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:47.759 go through like the execution. So it's like stack trace over time as it 238 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:53.880 were. Okay, and it's now you collect this for like every session or 239 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:59.359 like is it sampled or how how does it work? Yeah, there is 240 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:03.400 a plank configuration already put in into the dcation, so you can you can 241 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.880 play around with the values. It's basically it's just from zero to one. 242 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.880 That's how a century configures it. So if you want ten percent of your 243 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.759 sessions to be simple, then you just sapiens your point one and the sampling 244 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:22.119 doesn't adversely impact the performance of the session, like the user doesn't notice it 245 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.400 that it's being sampled in this way. I wouldn't say so, but depending 246 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:33.319 on you. For example, if you're instrumenting everything all the you know, 247 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:37.240 important and non important bits and pieces in your application, then you'll probably see 248 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:42.720 some performance overhead. But as yeah, that's all in your control, basically 249 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:49.720 cool. So we were talking about the fact that you have this tracing mechanism 250 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:57.680 and from that you kind of moved into also performance monitoring. Yeah. Yeah, 251 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:04.119 because the trees contains everything, right, the trace knows where the application 252 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:08.759 went or the operation went and how long it took, so we can identify 253 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:14.160 performance bottlenecks. But then what we do at Century as well is whenever an 254 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:19.000 error happens, we attach it to the trace. So you can see on 255 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:22.799 that timeline on the flame chart, you can see where an error happens and 256 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:30.039 how the operation behaved after you know, the error got triggered. Also, 257 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:34.240 I assume how you actually got to that point of the air, because that's 258 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:38.279 often the thing you most want to know exactly. Yeah, the spens will 259 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:45.799 give you the information about what data you know was being handled and basically what 260 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:55.720 happened leading up to the air. So do you have like something like I 261 00:22:55.720 --> 00:23:00.079 I can I literally see things like what you know, like a sort of 262 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:04.839 of like what the user was actually even maybe seeing on the screen or stuff 263 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:08.799 like that when the air happened. Or Yeah, we do. It's it's 264 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:14.279 like a different subproduct. It's called Session replay, uh. And it's just 265 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:19.640 an integration that you need to install in your client facing applications. Right now, 266 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:25.079 it's just web, but we're coming up with support for mobile as well. 267 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.960 So it's like dumb recording. It's not a screen recording, but it's 268 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:34.519 basically records the dumb and sees all the yeahs, basically the recordings along with 269 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:41.319 the whole you know, monagoring and capturing. Oh that's enough, I mean, 270 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:48.319 don't does represent what the user actually sees? Yeah, And you also 271 00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:53.039 get the network request. You also get the console log, console air or 272 00:23:53.079 --> 00:24:00.279 whatever you're outputting into the browsers console. It's it's like literally you're, uh, 273 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:07.759 you have access to the person's computer. That one one question I have 274 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.680 related to that is a lot of times there's information, be it personally identifiable 275 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:17.400 information or passwords or things like that. I'm assuming that you can configure centry 276 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:21.319 to screen all that out so doesn't show up in the Yeah. Yeah, 277 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:26.279 we're scrubbing that out automatically. Uh. And and that happens in both science. 278 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:30.480 For example, the esedicate itself does some scrubbing so there is no PI 279 00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:36.960 going through the wire. But then also before we start processing the data, 280 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:42.200 Uh, there's a there's a thing called relay which takes in all the data 281 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:47.839 and does additional scrubbing on the server side as well before we put it. 282 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:51.799 And that's for the I think the CELLF hosted one has it, but then 283 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:56.519 also the the SATAS one also supports the scrubbing of the p II, but 284 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:02.720 it's configurable. For example, if you're if you're tracing, if you implement 285 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:08.319 tracing and you append the you explicitly append p I I in through the context 286 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:15.960 or tags, whatever it is is going to be sent, So you need 287 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.839 to think about what it is that you're actually collecting. That's the bottom line. 288 00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:23.559 Yeah, like out of the box, if you don't explicitly send data, 289 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.519 it's not going to be sent. But if you're you know, if 290 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:33.119 you're configuring the context of the ace decat to include the locked in user or 291 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:38.160 whatever data you want to you know, attach to the to the context, 292 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:42.920 then it's going to be sent, but out of the box it's nothing gets 293 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:49.039 sent basically, So when you added ROM capabilities and by the way, RUM 294 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:55.720 in the context of performances really use measurements, which means it's data from the 295 00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:02.599 field rather than synthetic data created in simulated environments. Uh. You mentioned that 296 00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:07.880 you obviously collect the co ed vitals, which these days are LCP largest content 297 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:12.200 for paint, CLS, commolative layout shift, and the I n P which 298 00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:22.920 is in the input interaction to the next paint. Exactly. I've been, 299 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:29.440 like I said, had a head called I'm still recovering. But what other 300 00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:37.839 performance data are you collecting that's relevant to identifying performance bottlenecks in the application? 301 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:44.319 Yeah? So, Uh, there's also database monitoring, so whatever you use, 302 00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:49.680 if Centric has a has an integration for your database driver, Uh, 303 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:55.319 there's a built in for postcrists. There's also for Prisma if you're using Prisma. 304 00:26:55.799 --> 00:27:02.000 But if now there's a way you can you can manually attached the query 305 00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:07.480 and also the result in the spand itself when you're instrumenting. So there's also 306 00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:15.960 database Uh monitoring or like monitoring the queries as well. Yeah, aside from 307 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:21.160 the web files, we also measure all of the resources that your page is 308 00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:25.880 pulling in the jas files, CSS files, if they're blocking or not, 309 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.480 images as well, how how big they are, like, is there like 310 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:34.200 a way to opportunities for you to optimize them, et cetera. So there's 311 00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:45.759 quite quite a quite some data getting pulled into the centriy dashboard for you cool. 312 00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:53.160 One of the biggest challenges with performance monitoring in the field or rum, 313 00:27:53.279 --> 00:28:00.319 as I mentioned, is the concept of attribution, which basically means, let's 314 00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:07.480 say I have a bottleneck. My my LCP largest content for paint is high, 315 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:12.440 which means it takes a long time for the primary content to be displayed 316 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:17.440 from the session start, which is fine and good, but I want to 317 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:22.599 understand why it happens and what I should change or even potentially more challenging, 318 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:30.759 the new metric I inp interaction to next paint has to do with how often 319 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:37.920 the main thread is blocked by for examping, for example, long running JavaScript 320 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:45.839 code. But there might be a lot of different JavaScript code that is running 321 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:52.359 inside the context of my session, could be first party code, it could 322 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.839 be third party code for example, various tag managers, pixels and whatnot. 323 00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:03.160 So, and I want understand you know, which one is the one that's 324 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:07.200 causing the most harm, the most damage, and that requires some sort of 325 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:15.519 mechanism of attribution. So how do you go about that? Yeah? So, 326 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.440 uh, I feel like you have all the tools to fix all these 327 00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:22.160 things. For example, if you're looking into I n P, then maybe 328 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:29.279 uh capturing a profile and looking at a profile of uh, you know, 329 00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:34.759 of your running application can actually shed some light on what is happening in the 330 00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:40.559 background and why you're you know, your website is experiencing imps at the time 331 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:45.200 of uh, I don't know, interacting with the elements. So it's not 332 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:49.640 profiling on the developer's machine. It's not like opening the Chrome dev tools and 333 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:56.200 running the profile tap. It's actually collecting profile profiles for for the actual real 334 00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:00.559 user sessions exactly. Yeah, it's con fagurable. Yeah you can. You 335 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:06.240 can also pull in profiles and and you know, use them to debug I 336 00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:11.279 n P s or or whatever it is. Yeah, so can you give 337 00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.519 us like a concrete example. I'm sure that you work with various customers of 338 00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:19.119 that. So, without naming names. Can you, like give us an 339 00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:23.119 example of like an interesting case that you ran into and were able to debug 340 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.359 in this way? I don't work with customers, so I can give you 341 00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:32.359 like, yeah, I can give you examples from my demos that I create. 342 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.799 Go for it. But yeah, I usually just use a trace trace 343 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:42.000 view because the trace you basically tells me everything I need to know in terms 344 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:49.359 of how the page loads or in terms of how my operations, my custom 345 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:57.079 operation flows are behaving because I define them in my apps. But it basically 346 00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:03.039 that's that's how I go about debugging any of the like the top level stuff. 347 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:07.920 But then as I mentioned, like if I have TB problems, I'll 348 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:15.359 just use the Queries products. And the idea is that it's all here, 349 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.359 it's all connected to the same data. And on the sidebar you have all 350 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:26.559 of these tools that we're talking about, and it's all connected to the same 351 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:37.480 trace. And what about integrations with various development environments, Like let's say I'm 352 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:45.839 using I don't know next JS or next or remix or whatever. You know, 353 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:51.359 there are like a million frames or frameworks out there, astro, what 354 00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.319 kind of integrations do I get? Are you just looking at it as it's 355 00:31:55.519 --> 00:32:00.039 JavaScript and the web, but it's all the same. Or are you or 356 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:06.440 do you have like specific integrations for the different frameworks and metal frameworks. Yeah, 357 00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:12.559 we do have specific integrations with all of the different frameworks and a lot 358 00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:15.480 of them that are currently out there people that are using or not using. 359 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:21.400 We do that because we want to tap into the framework itself or the library 360 00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:23.440 or the tool, whatever it is. We do that because we want to 361 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:32.160 utilize the functionalities that the tool itself is providing when it comes to either instrumenting 362 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:39.519 or monitoring for errors, et cetera. So a lot of the let's say 363 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:44.680 we're talking about instrumenting, right, we're talking about tracing. A lot of 364 00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:50.240 the operations are already going to be instrumented because we tap into the tool itself 365 00:32:51.039 --> 00:33:00.200 and also connecting the clients or the projects. I would say we don't really 366 00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:05.079 care about that as well, because when when one project makes an API or 367 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:10.640 a request in any way to a different one, we can also the sd 368 00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:15.359 case will automatically create that trace for you. So a lot of the times 369 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:22.960 it's it's enough to just install Centry in all of your projects, set up 370 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:30.440 the sd case, and and you'll get a lot of data already configured and 371 00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:37.319 ready for you. But if you want to get into more details than you 372 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:44.720 do the you do the tracing basically, but where virals it's automatic session replay. 373 00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:51.000 You just need to add the integration. Tracing is covered as much as 374 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:54.279 the framework can cover. But if you have more details, like if you 375 00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:59.880 want to trace into a big into a greater detail, then you can all 376 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:07.639 supplements, uh, the the the trait with you additional spens by the way, 377 00:34:07.679 --> 00:34:15.440 out of curiosity, do you use like the built in browsers performance dot 378 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:19.679 mark and performance dot measure or do you have like your own wrappers for the 379 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:23.519 spens? In some places we do, but we usually use For example, 380 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:29.679 for Core web vitals, there was this travelscript library and I think it was 381 00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:34.400 from the Google Chrome team. Yeah, we use that under the hood to 382 00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:44.599 capture the data. Okay, what are things that you are I don't know 383 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:47.760 if you you can answer that if you're not primarily working with customers, But 384 00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:54.079 what are the things that you're seeing as the most common sources of performance issues 385 00:34:54.639 --> 00:35:00.880 with people who are using Centry for monitoring. Yeah, well, I've talking 386 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:06.760 with people. I've noticed that there's a lot of undefined errors. For example, 387 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.559 in in JavaScript land, where you know you're trying to access a property 388 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:15.840 of an undefined variable or object, you get the undefined erroortat is pretty much 389 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:22.039 the most common one. And also like failed to fetch fetch errors not happening 390 00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:24.639 because of I don't know, the UL doesn't exist or something like that. 391 00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:30.920 I've seen it that way too many times. Maybe yeah, but those are 392 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:36.920 general errors I'm saying. I'm asking what sort of performance related issues are you 393 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:44.239 primarily saying M I don't think I can. There's a lot of N plus 394 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:50.079 one when it comes to like API requests and also dB queries. What else 395 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:57.559 I don't know. I haven't haven't seen. I haven't been exploring too much 396 00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:07.840 of the customer data. I'm saying from an interesting split between two types of 397 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:15.360 issues, Like there's the issues related to let's say largest Contential Paint or RCP, 398 00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:22.559 which are about how quickly a website loads, and that's not always interesting 399 00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:27.280 for all web applications. I mean, it's interesting if you're building an e 400 00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:32.199 commerce website, but if you're building some sort of dashboard or something like that, 401 00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:38.400 or you're sitting behind the authentication, then you don't care about it as 402 00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:44.880 much. Basically, RCP is really important when when your page is ranked. 403 00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:49.679 If your page is not getting scanned and ranked, then you you often don't 404 00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:54.119 really care as much about that, And in these days of service side rendering 405 00:36:54.239 --> 00:37:00.280 SSR, it's often not even the SCP may not even be dependent on the 406 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:06.320 performance of database calls. So that's like one category of performance that I'm seeing, 407 00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:12.440 which has to do with how well have I configured my CDN? How 408 00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:19.280 well have I configured cashing for my files? Am I using properly optimized images? 409 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:23.599 Am I properly loading my phones and CSS and stuff like that? So 410 00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:29.280 that's like one category of performance issues that I see. And the other, 411 00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.159 which is one that you kind of mentioned a couple of times, has to 412 00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:38.360 do with once that web application is already loaded, how well does it respond 413 00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:44.599 to the various operations that I that either user do inside of it, in 414 00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:49.559 which case it is often has to do with like when when a certain operation 415 00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:55.480 is performed, how many AJAX calls does it get translated into? How how 416 00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:02.159 are these are these called parallel paralyzed or or are they sequential if they hit 417 00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:07.760 the database, which they often are. How optimized is that database query for 418 00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:15.039 example, like you know, have I properly created the indexes for the SQL 419 00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:19.280 query that I'm performing? You know, stuff like that. So these are 420 00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:23.639 kind of like the two categories of performance issues that I'm primarily seeing. Does 421 00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:30.320 that kind of match your understanding pretty much? Yeah? Yeah, And then 422 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:37.480 that's how we're also building the product too to help developers with these two types 423 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:46.039 of issues. Okay, So if we're going to talking about the database issues, 424 00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:54.360 so you said you've got integrations with the major database providers or database platforms, 425 00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:59.119 will it work like with any back end that I might have. Is 426 00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:04.360 the integration at the database layer or does it need to be some sort of 427 00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:07.800 know, we support Node, but we don't support GO I don't know. 428 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:14.639 Yeah, we do that through the back end, I would say, But 429 00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:21.639 it depends on what is the driver that is being used to access the database. 430 00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:28.360 So we're not basically monitoring the database server or instance itself, but how 431 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:36.480 the client that uses the driver to query the database. From that point of 432 00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:42.440 view, so it matters if there is a if there is support for the 433 00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:47.679 client itself or the back end framework or technology. That is the first thing, 434 00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:52.159 and then the second thing is what driver does the back end use to 435 00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:58.000 query the database for data. So that is the second thing. So which 436 00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:05.039 back end technologies do you support? Oh? A lot. We have nodes, 437 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:12.760 We have Django and anything Python. We have pH stuff like Larovel, 438 00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:16.880 et cetera. I've used it with rails Rails. Yeah, a lot of 439 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:22.840 the the I would say all the most the famous ones, like the most 440 00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:28.400 I would assume probably. Yeah, there's like Java stuff. Yeah, I 441 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.079 don't know all of them, but there's like too many. Yeah, just 442 00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:36.239 for what it's worth, my company uses centry on a pretty huge letter of 443 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:39.400 ville and view site. We use it pretty intensely both for we you know, 444 00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:44.079 see our both letravel and view errors, JavaScript rors, you know, 445 00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.800 bundling errors, and you know, any number of different errors from both both 446 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:52.679 ends of the application. So it's very handy. Do you also use it 447 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:58.400 for performance while the during Uh, not so much. I think we have 448 00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:00.159 some other tools we use. We use it mostly for the air tracking. 449 00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.519 We get that, like you mentioned earlier, we where he was talking about 450 00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:09.199 it being annoying. We get the emails and the Slack channel updates and and 451 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:15.320 all that kind of stuff. So I think the key thing from my perspective 452 00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:19.760 thinking about you know, making the web faster. What I like about this 453 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.800 is there there are a lot of websites that are using centriy. Like Centriy 454 00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:30.320 has become, from my perspective, almost a de facto standard for error tracking 455 00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:37.039 and air monitoring on the web today. And if you know, if some 456 00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:42.159 of these organizations that are that are using Centry already have some sort of a 457 00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:45.920 RUM tool in place, and good for them. But if they don't, 458 00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:52.119 then why not just use Centry to get all this performance information and start making 459 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:58.400 your website faster. Yeah, I mean I've seen, uh, I've seen 460 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:05.559 lions that only uses for air monitoring to also you know, implement our performance 461 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:10.119 too, whether they have or don't have, you know, already other tools 462 00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:17.960 in place. So I've seen them move towards centric as well. Yeah, 463 00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:23.159 I've seen that on a few other places and with other competitors to Century. 464 00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:31.159 You know that either went from hey we do the APM or the application performance 465 00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:36.719 monitoring and then they added the error stuff or vice versa. But yeah, 466 00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:42.039 effectively, people start using one part of the tool and then when they run 467 00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:45.800 into some issue, right, so it'll come up that, hey, our 468 00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:50.719 core of vital scores are not where we want them, right because that got 469 00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:53.679 on the radar and they checked it out. Or hey, we've got this 470 00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:59.960 page that just takes four ever to load, right, And so then they 471 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:04.159 figure out, oh, we've been putting all this data into this system for 472 00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:07.239 a long time, and so now we have it, and so now we're 473 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:12.000 going to go look at it. And so then they start to audit what's 474 00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:15.400 going on in their website. And I think that's one thing that's kind of 475 00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.639 nice. So the tool that I use for most of my websites for error 476 00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:23.039 monitoring does not have an APM component to it. And yeah, there have 477 00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:25.639 been a couple of times where I've looked at things and gone, man, 478 00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:30.800 I really need something to you know, pull this this piece out. And 479 00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:37.679 so yeah, it's really convenient to have them both there. Another thing is 480 00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:44.360 a lot of site owners and seos, especially seos, they look at the 481 00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:49.800 Google Search Console, and the Google Search Console you do have a core vitals 482 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:53.880 area within it, so they can see like performance issues that they have with 483 00:43:54.039 --> 00:44:00.280 various pages and their pages in their website. The problem with it is is 484 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:08.559 that the Google Search Console has like this twenty eight day smoothing window, so 485 00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:17.800 you often see issues like two even three weeks after they've actually started. So 486 00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:22.039 you say, hey, you know, I've got a problem, but it's 487 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:27.079 affecting your website for it's been affecting your website for two to three weeks already, 488 00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.800 so that's problem number one. And then you make a fix, it 489 00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:35.079 then takes another two to three weeks to actually see that the fix actually impacted. 490 00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.800 So yes, you can't tell Google Search Console that like, I made 491 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.719 a change, please review it. But it's still it's still a chore. 492 00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:47.199 So that's problem number one. And problem number two is I mentioned before, 493 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:52.559 is this whole issue of attribution, so you can see that in certain in 494 00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:59.360 a certain page or group of pages, I don't know, CLS has gotten 495 00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:05.679 worse, but like why what's caused it? You know, you know what, 496 00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:08.360 what change have we made over the past three weeks? And there can 497 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:13.920 be so many things. It might be somebody from marketing who just made some 498 00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:20.280 sort of change in the page layout or content. It might be I don't 499 00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:25.039 know, issues with and one of you know, an improperly configured CDN or 500 00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:31.159 maybe you know you you misconfigured your your web pack or whatever, and you 501 00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:37.559 know, creating much larger bundles, or maybe somebody in marketing added another pixel, 502 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:40.639 And it can be so many things that can have the impact. And 503 00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:46.239 and and this whole concept of getting good attribution, of understanding as quickly as 504 00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:52.679 possible where the problem is is really key to be being able to resolve it. 505 00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:57.320 And that's where a tool like Centry and like the other run providers at 506 00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:01.559 these the good ones UH can provide so much value over what Google gives you 507 00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:07.119 out of the box. I was just going to say, because you were 508 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.840 listing examples and when you mentioned added a pixel, that's the one that I've 509 00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:15.239 seen come up. But the trick is is that a lot of times that 510 00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:17.360 doesn't show up in your code because you're using something like Google tag Manager or 511 00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:22.760 something, and so right, the change isn't in the code base, the 512 00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:28.320 change is in the tool. And so just just be aware of what you're 513 00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:35.360 allowing to modify your page that may or may not be the code exactly. 514 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:38.559 I mean, you know, you see that let's say you've pinpointed the time 515 00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:44.599 of the degradation, and then you start doing let's say get bisect, and 516 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:49.559 you find that nothing's changed because it's not in your code. Like you said, 517 00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:53.440 it might be that somebody in marketing using Google tag Manager just added another 518 00:46:53.960 --> 00:47:00.119 you know pixel that's really killing your performance, but again totally not reflected in 519 00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:04.639 your codebase. I've also seen in cases where a parallel happens, so it's 520 00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:07.199 not just from this point on or like from this commit on and you know, 521 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:13.280 the performance gets worse, but like there's like two parallel lines where one 522 00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:20.360 of the one group of the users are experiencing okay, are having an okay 523 00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:25.679 experience, but then another has not so much okay, and they didn't have 524 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:29.960 anything to do with pixels or or stuff like that. It had to do 525 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:37.480 with the state of the application. So I've seen like banners that you know, 526 00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:42.519 change the lcp' score because they're pretty big at the top, and some 527 00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:45.760 users take the time to hit the X button, but some don't. Right, 528 00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:50.159 So for some of the users, your run data is going to report 529 00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:52.960 the LCP is going to be based on the banner, but for the others, 530 00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.239 it's not going to be. The element is not going to be the 531 00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:59.400 banner itself or the background or whatever it is, but it's going to be 532 00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:07.119 some different part of the page. So there's like also parallels of data and 533 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:12.880 I've seen situations where a lot of organizations do all sorts of A B tests, 534 00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:17.480 So they might be testing different let's say head title or header messages, 535 00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:24.159 and the head different header messages have a slightly different length, and then due 536 00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:28.559 to wrap around and stuff like that, all of a sudden, a different 537 00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:36.800 piece of content is the largest contentful piece of content to be painted based on 538 00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:40.119 where you are in the A B test. So all these things can really 539 00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:44.599 drive you nuts trying to figure out, Hey, what's actually going on? 540 00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:47.960 You know, why is it that all of a sudden, my page shows 541 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:52.920 poor performance even though I don't I didn't think that anything actually changed. And 542 00:48:53.440 --> 00:49:00.519 again, attribution is really key in being able to solve these type of types 543 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:08.639 of scenarios. Yeah, and I would say that centrally does handle that in 544 00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:13.480 a really good way. For example, in cases where an A B test 545 00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:17.159 is happening, or in case where some of the elements or state of the 546 00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:24.320 application can affect the web vitals, you can always you know, add tags 547 00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:29.800 to the context, so all of the data that's being measured is going to 548 00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.920 be tagged, like a banner shown true or false, or that the user 549 00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:37.679 is logged in yes or no, et cetera. So that based on the 550 00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:43.719 tag itself, you can filter out specific scenarios of the state of the application, 551 00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:47.159 and then you can zoom in in that data and see how the I 552 00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:52.199 don't know, web vitals and all the other metrics look like without these cases 553 00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:59.000 in mind. So it's not just desktop versus mobile or Chrome versus Edge, 554 00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:02.519 it's also do I have this spanner or don't I have this spanner? Am 555 00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:06.440 I on this? Am I on the A part of the test or the 556 00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.199 B part of the test? And stuff like that. Exactly. Yeah, 557 00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:14.719 and you have the you already have the tooling in the in the s decay 558 00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:20.320 and in the dashboard in centry to to do all the slices that you need 559 00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:31.559 to do. So did the data makes sense? Cool? Yeah, so 560 00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:36.440 you said you haven't gotten into the customer data A ton. I'm kind of 561 00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:43.039 curious if there are case studies though, where somebody basically demonstrated or you know, 562 00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:47.760 had some kind of major shift in their performance or a major shift in 563 00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:52.800 their web vitals or a major shift in Hey, this was our money maker 564 00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:57.159 page and it went it got faster, and then we made more money. 565 00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:00.280 I'm just I don't know which of those you might be aware of, but 566 00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:04.199 that would be cool to hear about. Yeah, totally. I mean we 567 00:51:05.079 --> 00:51:08.079 internally and like you know, we always talk with the customers, and there's 568 00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:15.360 sometimes we even do events like workshops where we just gether some you know, 569 00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:21.880 better people in Zoom and we talk with the our clients or people who use 570 00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:28.480 Centry. I remember I also did one with a person who who used Centry 571 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:31.480 in a React Native application and we talked about their experience, et cetera. 572 00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:38.039 So we sometimes we do publish these kinds of interactions and conversations, either through 573 00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:44.119 video format or or on a blog. So there are some stuff like that. 574 00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:52.719 Yeah, how do I find those? I'm not sure if there's like 575 00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:57.039 one page that lists all of them. But if there isn't, then that's 576 00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:00.760 a really good idea and I'm gonna take it up and see if we can 577 00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:04.559 build that. But I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Maybe either the 578 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:17.960 blog or the YouTube. There's probably a playlist on the YouTube channel. Okay, 579 00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:25.320 any of the rest you have questions or should we go to picks? 580 00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:32.800 I've covered my basis, Lasa, is there anything else that you specifically want 581 00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:37.679 to add? I don't think so, yeah, I think we had a 582 00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:45.239 really good discussion. I'm tracing and performance and stuff. Cool. I have 583 00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:51.639 to say just to conclude that I'm a huge believer in real user measurements. 584 00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:58.400 You're always surprised if you just go by synthetic measurements. You know, it's 585 00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:04.559 highly likely that you're not actually testing what your users are really experiencing, so 586 00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:08.880 and and so that's number one. And number two is that production will always 587 00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:19.519 surprise you. And I've seen things, so just trying to rely on on 588 00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:24.559 on synthetic tests and simulated environments, that's that's just not enough. Yeah, 589 00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:30.360 have you seen the have you seen the reports? I think it's a few 590 00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:35.400 years old, but there was a report where it got all of the Lighthouse 591 00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:39.760 data and got all like the top I don't know how many websites with their 592 00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:46.679 scores and then maps them out with their data from the Crux database, and 593 00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:54.039 it turns out that like forty three of good light House scores don't even meet 594 00:53:54.199 --> 00:54:01.119 the minimum of the web vitals went from the Crux data. That's interesting. 595 00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:07.679 I've often seen the reverse, like pages that actually have good coed vitals but 596 00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:15.039 seem not to have good simulated scores. Especially for mobile, because Google really 597 00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:22.119 simulates a low end device that's slower in many cases that what users often actually 598 00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:25.840 have. But the reverse can also happen. I know that Rick Viscomi from 599 00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:30.400 Google I think actually even wrote an article a while back about why these scores 600 00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:37.280 can be so different and why you might see such significant discrepancies between the synthetic 601 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:40.000 tests and the reviewser measurements. So yes, I think that the best option 602 00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:45.199 is really to use both. That during the development cycle, you're using the 603 00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:50.760 synthetic tools to make sure that you don't degrade before pushing to production, but 604 00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:55.199 then you also have tools monitoring your production environment to catch all the things that 605 00:54:55.280 --> 00:55:00.679 slip through, because inevitably things will slip through. And said, you know, 606 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.320 changes might be as results of things that have nothing to do with the 607 00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:08.760 actual code. They might have to do with pixels, with images. I've 608 00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:15.519 seen, for example, cash headers for files misconfigured, so or I've seen 609 00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:22.239 situation where somebody accidentally turned off all the compression for all the files at the 610 00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:27.559 CDN, so you suddenly are downloading you know, five times as much data 611 00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:31.800 than before. So I've seen so many reasons for poor performance that might not 612 00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:38.119 be caught by synthetic tools that only check during bill times. I guess you 613 00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:42.039 could say really really stay based on the report that that was the crux of 614 00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:46.440 the issue. Right, yeah, I think you made the same joke when 615 00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:52.039 what we had Rick Vscopy on the show. Hey, if it works, 616 00:55:52.199 --> 00:55:55.280 you know, keepu isn't it? Some people hadn't heard it yet. That's 617 00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:02.039 sorry? All good? All right, Well, let's go ahead and move 618 00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:05.760 on to the picks. Before we do that, though, Lazaar, how 619 00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:08.960 do people find you on the internet if they have questions or want to chat 620 00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:15.360 or whatever. Yeah, I'm I'm trying to keep a consistent user name. 621 00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:19.440 But let me just change it real quick so everyone can see it. It's 622 00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:24.159 at Nicolo Lasa and this is how it looks like. All right. We'll 623 00:56:24.199 --> 00:56:31.239 also put that in the in the comments on our various streaming platforms, and 624 00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:37.519 I can type it and in the show notes as well, and that way 625 00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:44.519 people can look you up. All right, Well, let's go ahead do 626 00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:46.159 the picks. Steve, do you want to start us off for picks? 627 00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:51.039 Going for the high point early again? Okay? I can appreciate that. 628 00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:57.960 So before I get to the dad jokes of the week, A j I 629 00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:00.280 had mentioned earlier that I thought of a pick you inspired me to pick when 630 00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:05.079 we were talking about your aquariums. Back in the eighties, there was this 631 00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:07.960 comedian and he was the king of puns. He was, I guess you 632 00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:13.519 could say, one of my idols. His name was Kippa Datta and he 633 00:57:13.719 --> 00:57:22.119 has a song called Wet Dream that is all about fish puns. And you 634 00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:25.760 know, it starts out how he was driving in downtown Atlanta, Atlantis, 635 00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:30.360 and his Barracuda was wasn't working, so he was driving a rented Steingray. 636 00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:35.199 Anyway, there's a great line in there where he's trying to pick up some 637 00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:39.000 hot fish in a bar and he asked her what's her what's your sign? 638 00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:43.920 And she says aquarium and he says, great, let's get tanked. But 639 00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:46.840 anyway, that's a It's an all time classic. If you want to check 640 00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:50.639 it out, you can find it. There's actually a video very you can 641 00:57:50.639 --> 00:58:00.239 tell it's very early MTV video style on YouTube called wet Dream. So Dad 642 00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:05.880 jokes of the week, Oh I just lost them, sorry, And by 643 00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:14.280 stand by, did you know? It turns out that if you you can 644 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.920 actually hear the blood throw flowing through your veins. You just have to listen 645 00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:22.639 very close to mercos veins, very closely. Sorry, I flubbed that one, 646 00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:30.039 along the lines of the fish puns. What do you call a shrimp 647 00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:37.119 that is always getting injured? He's accident prawn? Right. And then finally 648 00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:40.800 the other day I went to see my doctor about this you should have been 649 00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:44.840 dealing with, and he said, well, do you want to hear the 650 00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:46.760 good news first of the bad news? I said, good news? Please? 651 00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:54.360 He says, we're naming a disease after you. Yeah. You don't 652 00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:59.280 want that? Yeah? Right, Yeah, it's funny. There's in the 653 00:58:59.320 --> 00:59:02.880 fire Service say if there's a drill named after you, it's because something really 654 00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:12.880 bad happened, which is generally true. All right, a j what are 655 00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:16.360 your picks? I think his first his first pick? Is it the unmute 656 00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:23.880 button? Where is it? Okay? I found it? Yeah, let's 657 00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:30.559 see. I was just looking to find something to pick, because he had 658 00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:34.440 no idea that we were going to have picks today. Right, I had 659 00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:38.440 no idea, no idea. I was complete. I was taken aback. 660 00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:46.199 Oh gosh, let's see. Well, uh that this is not really a 661 00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:51.119 pick as much of a as a thing that happened. Okay, I gotta 662 00:59:51.159 --> 00:59:54.119 I got a couple. I I saw the movie Being There, Steve, 663 00:59:54.159 --> 01:00:00.159 have you seen that movie? Yes? That is it's such a weird movie. 664 01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:04.119 My uh. When I was in college, one of my Spanish professors 665 01:00:04.119 --> 01:00:07.079 had recommended she really liked it. And I'm a huge Peter Sellers fan from 666 01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:12.079 the uh you know, all the Pink Panther movies, the Inspector, Clusto 667 01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:15.159 stuff that he'd done. But yeah, this Being There is just it's interesting. 668 01:00:16.159 --> 01:00:21.440 I I don't know that it's interesting weird. So it's it's it's critically 669 01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:23.880 acclaimed, it's on it's on some lists of you know, best movies you 670 01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:28.239 gotta watch. Because my wife and I we like, we've watched all of 671 01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:30.679 the TV shows and movies that have come out in the last I don't know 672 01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:36.159 ten years that are worth watching and there's not very many of them, and 673 01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:39.440 and so and like nothing new comes out. It's all, yeah, it's 674 01:00:40.039 --> 01:00:45.880 very met and so he uh. We decided to go backwards to find some 675 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:50.039 older stuff, some stuff that people really felt like had meaning was done well, 676 01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:53.800 and we landed on Being There, and the reviews on it were so 677 01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:58.920 high. The trailer looks so weird. But the trailer was a very accurate 678 01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:02.719 depiction of the movie. It really made no sense it there was no plot. 679 01:01:04.159 --> 01:01:17.679 It was basically depicting someone who is semi autistic slash echoleist who just says 680 01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:23.079 a few things here and there and ends up like next to the vice president 681 01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:30.000 essentially, but it is I don't know, so I don't know. That's 682 01:01:30.039 --> 01:01:34.960 just something that happened, but something that something that's good is. I finished 683 01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:37.639 listening to the first book of the Expanse, and I have to say, 684 01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:43.840 overall, I do like the book better than the show. There for the 685 01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:45.719 first half of the book, I think I like the show better because the 686 01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:54.519 show gives a little bit more it Like with The Hunger Games. You only 687 01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:59.880 get a certain perspective in the book, but then in the movie they get 688 01:01:59.880 --> 01:02:02.199 to tell you things that are going on in the rest of the universe that 689 01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:07.280 you can't see from the main character's perspective. In the book, they do 690 01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:12.880 have a couple main characters, But I guess where the second half of the 691 01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:17.480 book I liked it better than the show was that it's just much more focused. 692 01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:22.519 The show progressively got worse and worse as they tried to just make the 693 01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:30.639 characters more extreme and just introducing more characters and then just having them yell louder 694 01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:34.679 and cuss stronger, and and that kind of got old. But the book 695 01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:38.159 just stays focused on the few characters that are the important ones that drive the 696 01:02:38.199 --> 01:02:42.880 story and doesn't try to introduce a bunch of others. And I mean, 697 01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:46.000 like, the book's got plenty of language and whatnot too, but it's not 698 01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:52.119 it's not the same where it's just like, Oh, she's on screen, 699 01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:54.800 now cue the effort. Yep, that was her line. Yep, okay, 700 01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:59.480 Now we move on to the next character. Oh, his line is 701 01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:01.639 angry, got it okay? And we move on to the next character. 702 01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:05.840 They in the book, at least for the first book, they develop the 703 01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:09.639 characters a lot better. And so I'm I didn't think I was gonna listen 704 01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:14.000 to the whole book series. I don't know if I will, but I 705 01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:19.239 am going to pick up the second book at some point. I've got a 706 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:27.079 whole backlog of Audible to do. But and then last thing is again not 707 01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:30.480 really a pick per se, but just an experience. So while we were 708 01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:36.239 on the show here, I did try to get century self hosted installed, 709 01:03:37.400 --> 01:03:43.639 ran into some Docker issues because you know Docker. But I'm I'm glad to 710 01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:46.840 see that it's available for self install, and I'm glad to see that the 711 01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:52.800 install script can kind of resume when it hits a hiccup. I'll play with 712 01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:55.599 it a bit more and see if I can find like the right version of 713 01:03:55.679 --> 01:04:00.800 Docker to host on the right type of VM to actually get it to install, 714 01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:04.719 because I would like to see how that works. But the documentation looks 715 01:04:04.719 --> 01:04:10.440 pretty decent. I do wish that it had like just the scripts to run 716 01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:14.079 the installers without having to deal with docer. Just say, okay, like 717 01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:16.639 you got to use debbian for this, but if you use deb like just 718 01:04:16.639 --> 01:04:19.360 tell me what the operating system is the Docker would use, let me install 719 01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:24.480 that operating system and let me just like run the scripts without having to deal 720 01:04:24.519 --> 01:04:27.639 with docer because docer, man, it's such a pain in the butt, 721 01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:31.559 you know. But but I'm glad to see that it's there. And I 722 01:04:31.599 --> 01:04:35.280 was trying it out, and the documentation looks good, and I like, 723 01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:41.159 like I said, I like that it's it. It seems to gracefully restart. 724 01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:44.519 As you hit one issue, you can solve that and then restart the 725 01:04:44.519 --> 01:04:46.719 install again and it'll pick up where it left off, and that's always very 726 01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:53.800 nice. So Plus one to the Century self hosted on that and hopefully I'll 727 01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:57.679 get it all the way and that's that's the end of my ramblings for today. 728 01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:01.760 I just want to chime in on the Expanse stuff also, I'm just 729 01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:05.159 going to put it out there. I very much prefer the doctor setups to 730 01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:12.400 the other kinds of setups. But the Expanse in particular, you're going to 731 01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:17.360 find through the whole TV series and through the whole book series that your observation 732 01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:21.719 mostly holds out for all of the other books. A couple of things that 733 01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:30.599 bothered me a little bit is that they so the books. Some of the 734 01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:33.159 books are spaced out over years, right, so you have one book and 735 01:05:33.199 --> 01:05:36.519 then a bunch of stuff happens, and then the next book starts, and 736 01:05:36.599 --> 01:05:40.400 a lot of times there's a novella that fills in the gaps. Some of 737 01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:45.360 the novellas aren't as good. But the other thing is is that those gaps 738 01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:48.880 and the things that happen in those gaps are kind of important, and so 739 01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:53.599 the way that they try and shoehorn some of the plot points to keep it 740 01:05:53.639 --> 01:05:58.320 more or less continuous didn't really work, and so when they ended the TV 741 01:05:58.400 --> 01:06:02.199 series, they actually left off last book and you know a bunch of other 742 01:06:02.239 --> 01:06:06.800 stuff that I kind of wish they'd done so anyway, but overall, they 743 01:06:06.840 --> 01:06:11.360 did an excellent job on the TV series. Uh. The other thing to 744 01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:14.320 keep in mind with the TV series is I think the Sci Fi Channel did 745 01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:18.119 the first two three, and then Amazon picked it up, and Amazon picked 746 01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:20.920 it up, and when Amazon picked it up, we got better. So 747 01:06:23.440 --> 01:06:26.800 there, I know there was one like the first season of the TV series 748 01:06:26.840 --> 01:06:29.960 was pretty good, and then he was either the third or the fourth one 749 01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:33.559 was pretty good. But that yeah, that's I think it was the second 750 01:06:33.559 --> 01:06:36.079 one. It was just like out of nowhere. It's like they just I 751 01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:38.880 don't know if the books that way. I don't know. Does is the 752 01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:43.840 book like a completely different, unrelated story for the second book? No, 753 01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:45.320 I don't. I don't remember for sure, but no, I don't. 754 01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:49.119 I don't remember it being that So yeah, because they go into this thing 755 01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:56.320 about Mars and then the the the humanoid aliens, and and then like that 756 01:06:56.440 --> 01:06:59.400 storyline has dropped and it's never picked up back up against I don't know if 757 01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:01.320 that, like, if the book has that or if that was just like 758 01:07:01.360 --> 01:07:08.079 they were patting the TV show the continuity. I remember the second season being 759 01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:12.079 mostly based on the second book. But yeah, the continuity in the books 760 01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:15.960 is really really tight. So okay, cool, I'll look forward to the 761 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:20.400 second one then. Yeah, all right, Dan, what are your picks? 762 01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:28.320 Okay, So I have a couple of picks today. My first. 763 01:07:28.519 --> 01:07:33.320 Since we've been discussing performance and the impact of perform that performance can have on 764 01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:42.119 the success of a website, there's this excellent website for web performance that Google 765 01:07:42.199 --> 01:07:46.800 created well web performance and web development called web dot Dev, and they have 766 01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:54.280 a section there web dot dev slash case studies. We'll put the link in 767 01:07:54.280 --> 01:07:58.599 the show notes obviously, but it's got a whole like lots of case studies 768 01:07:58.639 --> 01:08:05.760 of companies that improve their performance or certain aspects of their performance and the benefits 769 01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:13.599 that they've gained as results of these improvements, like actual numbers and actual testimonials 770 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.319 and figures and stuff like that. So if you need to prove to your 771 01:08:16.600 --> 01:08:24.079 let's say management while why it's worthwhile investing time, effort, and maybe money 772 01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:28.760 into improving the performance of your website or web application, you know, you 773 01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:32.880 can go there and you'll find a lot of relevant content. So I think 774 01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:36.840 this is a useful resource in the context of what we've been talking about today. 775 01:08:38.560 --> 01:08:44.760 So that would be my first pick. My second pick. I've mentioned 776 01:08:44.840 --> 01:08:50.279 that we've been clearing up our library and I found various books that haven't read 777 01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:56.760 in a while and was deciding which ones to keep and which ones to let 778 01:08:56.840 --> 01:09:02.720 go basically donate, so which ones to reread. And I think I've mentioned 779 01:09:02.760 --> 01:09:09.199 before that I'm actually reading a series of books called The Saga of the plosen 780 01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:15.319 Exile. It's a series of books from the eighties written by Julian May. 781 01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:21.800 She was a sci fi speculative fiction author. It's kind of an interesting work 782 01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:27.600 in the sense that it's kind of midway between science fiction and fantasy in that 783 01:09:27.760 --> 01:09:31.239 it's it's supposed to be like science fiction based, but it gives a lot 784 01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:39.039 of fantasy vibes. But it's from my perspective, it's an excellent series of 785 01:09:39.079 --> 01:09:42.439 books. There are four books in the series. Since it's from the eighties, 786 01:09:42.439 --> 01:09:45.479 they're all written, so you don't have to worry about, you know, 787 01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:50.039 an incomplete series of books. It goes from start to finish. It's 788 01:09:50.079 --> 01:09:56.039 they're pretty thick, lots and lots of characters, lots of character development and 789 01:09:56.159 --> 01:10:00.760 character interactions, and it's just a great series of books, lots of action 790 01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:11.119 and adventure. But also she really gives like the flashes out the various characters. 791 01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:15.319 One complaint that I've heard about the books, and I can see where 792 01:10:15.319 --> 01:10:18.640 it's where it's coming from, though, I although I don't necessarily agree with 793 01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:25.800 it, is that the depictions of the lgbt Q let's call it community or 794 01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:30.119 people that are identify as such, especially trans people, is not ideal. 795 01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:36.800 It may have to do also when the books were written, but I'm just 796 01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:42.000 putting it out there in the case that it might impact the decisions of some 797 01:10:42.079 --> 01:10:45.000 people to read it. As I said, I think the books are really 798 01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:49.039 good. But again this is my own personal opinion, so that would be 799 01:10:49.119 --> 01:10:54.279 my second pick, and I mentioned them before. It's just that it's a 800 01:10:54.319 --> 01:10:57.840 long series of books, so it's taking me a while to read through them, 801 01:10:57.880 --> 01:11:01.319 and I, by the way, I can't really I can't deal with 802 01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:06.880 audiobooks. I have to actually read the book. I don't know when somebody 803 01:11:06.920 --> 01:11:10.279 is reading it out to me. It kind of feels weird to me. 804 01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:13.920 I don't know, it's maybe it's just me, but that's the way it 805 01:11:13.960 --> 01:11:18.880 is. So that would be my second pick, my third pick. I'm 806 01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:27.439 also very much a history buff or history fan, and especially of ancient history, 807 01:11:28.199 --> 01:11:30.960 and given the fact that I live in Israel, also history of the 808 01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:35.199 Middle East, which has a lot of history and a lot of ancient history. 809 01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:43.680 And I found these series of lectures called The Rise of Ancient Israel with 810 01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:49.520 Professor Isail Finkelstein. He's a professor of archaeology in the Tel Aviv University. 811 01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:55.880 He's done some of the most significant archaeological digs in Israel, certainly in recent 812 01:11:55.960 --> 01:12:02.600 years. And it's a very long series of conversations that he has with one 813 01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:11.520 of his students who's actually made this basically recorded this series. There are twenty 814 01:12:12.079 --> 01:12:17.439 one discussions and there are like something like forty something minutes long each and they 815 01:12:17.479 --> 01:12:25.640 talk about, you know how, the evolution of the ancient kingdoms of Israel, 816 01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:31.039 of you know, King David and before and after. It's really interesting 817 01:12:31.279 --> 01:12:38.720 if you're into that. I do have to caveat this with the fact that 818 01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:48.199 he takes the Bible as a serious source of historical information. But when there's 819 01:12:48.239 --> 01:12:58.079 a conflict between the story in the Bible and the archaeological findings in the field, 820 01:12:58.119 --> 01:13:03.159 he will side with your archaeological findings. H Or put another way, 821 01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:12.039 he sees the Bible as not as a historical book so much as a book 822 01:13:12.199 --> 01:13:17.680 of you know, a religious book and an ideological book that is based on 823 01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:25.399 historical events. So considering the archeological bracity of the Bible of something I read 824 01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:28.439 quite a bit to you on that's sort of well, there's a lot of 825 01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:33.279 there's a lot of historical Veracity's not he's not denying it. But again, 826 01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:42.479 when there are conflicts, and there are some conflicts between potentially, but you 827 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:45.920 know, the problem that he likes to state that he says a lot about 828 01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:48.239 archaeology is that you can only go but what you but what you buy, 829 01:13:48.359 --> 01:13:54.439 what you have found, and that maybe tomorrow you'll find something new that completely 830 01:13:54.560 --> 01:13:59.399 changes your point of view. But true, but again, you can only 831 01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:04.319 go on what you found. And while a lack of evidence is not an 832 01:14:04.359 --> 01:14:09.039 evidence, how does it go I know exactly what you're saying, yes, 833 01:14:10.039 --> 01:14:14.520 but still you know, if there's no evidence for particular events where you expect 834 01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:18.079 evidence to be abundant, it does say something or at least it raises some 835 01:14:18.680 --> 01:14:26.479 significant questions. Anyway, I highly recommend it. It's it's an excellent conversation. 836 01:14:26.680 --> 01:14:31.239 I'll put a link to the entire playlist if you're into that. Very 837 01:14:31.319 --> 01:14:39.359 highly recommended. And my final, so that's really fascinating. Yeah, there 838 01:14:39.399 --> 01:14:44.720 goes my week, are right. Yeah, I would be curious, you 839 01:14:44.720 --> 01:14:48.760 know, as to what you get from it. It's it's really really informative. 840 01:14:50.039 --> 01:14:54.479 And my final, I won't call it pick I'll call it a mansion. 841 01:14:55.520 --> 01:15:02.039 Today is the Holocaust Memorial Day in Israel, and this one's especially hard 842 01:15:02.600 --> 01:15:10.760 because we still have one hundred and thirty two hostages being held in Gaza by 843 01:15:10.840 --> 01:15:15.560 Hamas, So it's kind of I wouldn't call it a modern day Holocaust, 844 01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:21.640 it's not quite up there, but it's it's it makes everything harder, and 845 01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:25.439 you know, we don't even know how many of them are still alive, 846 01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:30.560 and how many of them have been murdered or tortured to death, and it's 847 01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:36.159 and it's you know, and you swing between hope hope and and you know, 848 01:15:36.600 --> 01:15:43.840 feelings of hopelessness and and it's it's really hard. So anyway, those 849 01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:46.760 would be the picks and mentions that I wanted to make for today and over 850 01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:50.760 to you, Chuck. All right, I'm gonna put out my picks and 851 01:15:50.800 --> 01:15:55.800 then we'll let let's R do his. So I always start with board game. 852 01:15:56.880 --> 01:16:00.039 In this case, I'm doing a card game. This one's called Hanabi. 853 01:16:00.119 --> 01:16:08.159 Hanabi is the Japanese word for fireworks, and the game is pretty simple. 854 01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:12.640 You are delta hand of cards. It's usually it's always four cards. 855 01:16:13.039 --> 01:16:15.840 You hold them facing everybody else, so you don't know what cards you have. 856 01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:19.359 You can see what everybody else has, but you can't see what what 857 01:16:19.399 --> 01:16:26.600 you have. And then what you do is you can either play a card. 858 01:16:26.960 --> 01:16:28.760 So if you know what you have, or you think you have a 859 01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:31.920 good idea of what you have, then you can play the card. And 860 01:16:31.960 --> 01:16:35.800 what you're trying to do is you're trying to get stacks of all the colors 861 01:16:36.079 --> 01:16:41.640 to go from one to five, and they're three ones, two of two, 862 01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:45.920 three and four and then one five of each color. And so you 863 01:16:45.960 --> 01:16:49.039 can play a card, you can discard a card. So the way we 864 01:16:49.079 --> 01:16:53.840 always play is we always let everybody know I'm discarding off of the right hand 865 01:16:53.840 --> 01:16:56.920 side of my hand. Right so if people don't want to get rid of 866 01:16:56.960 --> 01:16:59.800 it because it's a five, and if you discard a five, you lose 867 01:17:00.039 --> 01:17:03.640 because you can't play it. Then right then people will clue you, hey, 868 01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:06.880 this is a and so that's the last one is you can give a 869 01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:11.840 clue, and a clue is these cards are white or these cards are yellow, 870 01:17:12.119 --> 01:17:15.119 or you could do these cards are two's right, and so anyway, 871 01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:19.439 and then you're you have to kind of keep track of what where stuff is 872 01:17:19.479 --> 01:17:25.319 in your hand without being able to see it. And so anyway, it's 873 01:17:25.399 --> 01:17:28.479 a super fun cooperative game. I like it better than a lot of the 874 01:17:28.520 --> 01:17:33.119 other cooperative games because like when I play cooperative games, there's one in particular 875 01:17:33.159 --> 01:17:36.960 that when I play with my wife, it's it's me and her and anyone 876 01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:41.880 else who's playing, and she's telling us all what to do, and I 877 01:17:41.920 --> 01:17:45.119 just I don't I don't love playing the game where I'm watching somebody else play 878 01:17:45.159 --> 01:17:50.000 my game. So anyway, Uh, this one's different because you can't do 879 01:17:50.119 --> 01:17:56.800 that because you are missing information. So yeah, and we usually chit chat 880 01:17:56.800 --> 01:18:00.520 while we're doing it. You just have to be careful because if if I'm 881 01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:03.880 holding my cards up and I know that I have a particular card. I 882 01:18:03.920 --> 01:18:09.119 may have inferred that from the clues I got and the fact that I can 883 01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:12.479 see the other player's hands. And so if you have if you know what 884 01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:15.479 a card is, you can't always say, I know that this is the 885 01:18:15.800 --> 01:18:19.600 four of White, because you might have inferred that from the fact that they 886 01:18:19.640 --> 01:18:26.479 told you it was a white card, and you know from the discard pile 887 01:18:26.600 --> 01:18:30.560 and the other hands that right, it can't be anything else. So anyway, 888 01:18:31.279 --> 01:18:39.319 super fun game, so you can buy it. It's like ten bucks 889 01:18:39.359 --> 01:18:46.359 on Amazon. And then the other picks I have, I have a couple 890 01:18:46.439 --> 01:18:49.880 of them. So one of them is a movie that my wife and I 891 01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:55.239 saw last week or the week before. It's called Escape from Germany. And 892 01:18:55.399 --> 01:19:01.600 it's a true story about Latter Day Saint missionaries that were in Germany when the 893 01:19:01.600 --> 01:19:06.560 war started, and so you know, as you can imagine, they were 894 01:19:06.720 --> 01:19:15.760 somewhat hostile toward Americans, and they were also hostile toward UH missionaries because they 895 01:19:15.760 --> 01:19:23.279 were hostile towards certain kinds of religion, and so anyway, it's it's just 896 01:19:23.359 --> 01:19:27.479 a series of miracles on how they got all those missionaries out of Germany. 897 01:19:28.640 --> 01:19:31.159 And I really, really enjoyed it. So I'm going to pick that it's 898 01:19:31.159 --> 01:19:34.239 done by TC Christensen, who's the guy that did the Other Side of Heaven. 899 01:19:35.119 --> 01:19:39.760 And so if you liked that movie or that Brandon movie, then definitely 900 01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:45.880 check it out. And then the last pick I have besides telling you to 901 01:19:45.960 --> 01:19:53.680 go check out JavaScript geniuses dot com, is if you go to so Brandon 902 01:19:53.720 --> 01:20:00.840 Sanderson last year he put up a YouTube video and a Kickstarter and basically said, 903 01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:03.199 I was locked in my house during the pandemic, so I did what 904 01:20:03.279 --> 01:20:06.640 I do. I wrote all these books, but I didn't tell anybody about 905 01:20:06.680 --> 01:20:11.880 them. And so it's a series of books he's called the Secret Projects. 906 01:20:12.439 --> 01:20:15.520 And I listened to the first book on Audible. It's called Tress of the 907 01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:24.840 Emerald. See and I'll put an Amazon link on to the Audible books. 908 01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:30.720 You can buy it with a credit. But it's this one's part of the 909 01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:35.000 cosmir So he has he has a universe that he writes a number of his 910 01:20:35.079 --> 01:20:40.439 books in and you can kind of see some of these worlds converging right beginning 911 01:20:40.439 --> 01:20:44.720 to converge because you have crossover with some of the characters. Usually it's minor 912 01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:49.119 characters, not major characters, but Anyway, this one is in that vein. 913 01:20:50.520 --> 01:20:54.920 The narrator of the book is Hoyd. If you've been following along with 914 01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:59.359 Brandon Sanderson's stuff, he wrote the whole thing in Hoyd's voice, and Hoyd 915 01:20:59.439 --> 01:21:03.079 is one of the main characters in this book. But it is, it 916 01:21:03.119 --> 01:21:05.840 was, it was. It was a fun book, really fun book to 917 01:21:05.880 --> 01:21:10.199 listen to. So if you're into audio books, or if you want to 918 01:21:10.279 --> 01:21:14.520 just I guess you can just pick up a copy of it. The Kickstarter 919 01:21:14.800 --> 01:21:16.880 he mailed out a book every month along with a bunch of other stuff. 920 01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:21.840 But now you can go and you can get the books without being part of 921 01:21:21.880 --> 01:21:27.159 the Kickstarter. So a year later, right, So last year, if 922 01:21:27.199 --> 01:21:30.079 you back the Kickstarter, you got this book in January, and you got 923 01:21:30.119 --> 01:21:33.239 the next one in February, March, and April. And now the first 924 01:21:33.319 --> 01:21:38.880 four books are out because we've gone through April, and so I'm assuming that 925 01:21:38.960 --> 01:21:43.560 the fifth book and the Secret Secret Book series is going to come out pretty 926 01:21:43.600 --> 01:21:48.239 quick here because we're into May. So anyway, I really really enjoyed that 927 01:21:48.279 --> 01:21:55.039 book. So anyway, those are my picks. All right, lazare what 928 01:21:55.039 --> 01:21:58.920 are your book? What are your picks? A question? Do the picks 929 01:21:58.960 --> 01:22:02.920 need to be non technological, or they can be technical or non technical. 930 01:22:03.159 --> 01:22:08.880 Okay, because I only got technical. It's all good. I'm always in 931 01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:12.520 the new stuff and I'm starting to get into AI, so I'm gonna start 932 01:22:12.520 --> 01:22:15.159 picking some of that stuff too. Oh cool. Yeah, yeah, So 933 01:22:15.239 --> 01:22:18.119 I didn't know that I needed to prepare picks, but something on top of 934 01:22:18.159 --> 01:22:23.960 my mind, I'm gonna mention century. Of course, check it out. 935 01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:29.119 The free tier is generous enough for you to get started, and it's it's 936 01:22:29.159 --> 01:22:31.720 it's generous, so you should check it out. But when it comes to 937 01:22:31.760 --> 01:22:38.199 picks, I got one interesting and that is a project by Joanne Leon. 938 01:22:38.439 --> 01:22:42.760 I'm sorry if I'm butchering your name, but it's basically and I'll drop the 939 01:22:42.800 --> 01:22:46.680 links here so you can check it out. It's basically a collection of web 940 01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:53.960 performance snippets that you can installed, not installed, but I move into your 941 01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:59.000 web browsers so you can, you know, check out what is the LCP 942 01:22:59.079 --> 01:23:03.720 element or whatever it is that that the snippet provides. There's also I m 943 01:23:03.760 --> 01:23:10.279 P. There's also the whole loading category, but it's basically at death time 944 01:23:10.479 --> 01:23:14.880 before you commit what you have, if you want to check out how the 945 01:23:15.479 --> 01:23:21.000 performance looks like on your machine. You can check out all these beautiful snippets. 946 01:23:21.479 --> 01:23:27.880 So these are at death time. One more new thing that I came 947 01:23:27.920 --> 01:23:33.760 across and and and anri Elvetica told me about this is the rum archive. 948 01:23:34.479 --> 01:23:40.439 Uh it's it's it's basically like crucks, but it's data taken from a Kama 949 01:23:40.640 --> 01:23:44.840 and it's put together in a database. But you can query it. And 950 01:23:44.920 --> 01:23:49.159 I haven't been playing too much with it, but it's basically, uh yeah, 951 01:23:49.239 --> 01:23:55.800 you can use you use this database to see rump data and you can 952 01:23:55.880 --> 01:24:00.439 split it into different frameworks, et cetera, so can plug that in. 953 01:24:00.039 --> 01:24:06.920 And then also I've been playing with a project called UI dot a Eternity. 954 01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:15.159 So it's a collection of UI components for React built with tailwind and frameer motion, 955 01:24:15.720 --> 01:24:20.600 and they look really good and I tried using them, but some of 956 01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:27.880 them are are really making an impact on the performance. So I'm looking into 957 01:24:27.920 --> 01:24:33.239 these components right now and figuring out how I can or if I can make 958 01:24:33.319 --> 01:24:39.399 them a bit more performant. Right So instead of using frameer motion, can 959 01:24:39.439 --> 01:24:45.119 we do that with plane CSS so we're not introducing or shipping too much JavaScript 960 01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:50.079 to the client. So these are the things that are on top of my 961 01:24:50.199 --> 01:24:56.920 mind, and I would have been more prepared. But I'm sorry. No, 962 01:24:57.079 --> 01:25:00.479 it's all good. Thanks for coming this. It was a lot of 963 01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:01.920 fun. It's good to kind of dive into some of these tools that a 964 01:25:01.960 --> 01:25:06.840 lot of people use. I also found a lot of applicability for if people 965 01:25:06.840 --> 01:25:12.000 were using, like I said, things that are like century but are not 966 01:25:12.119 --> 01:25:15.159 Century. Some of those features are there, some of them are not. 967 01:25:15.560 --> 01:25:21.039 But yeah, I think I have a much better idea in some of these 968 01:25:21.079 --> 01:25:27.000 areas, especially on the APM, the performance side on what I can grab. 969 01:25:27.039 --> 01:25:30.319 So thanks for jumping in and until next time, folks, max out