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Welcome to episode fifty six of Get
Out a Live podcast where me your host

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Ashley every other week tells you to
animal to xtor kid. I didn't even

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do anything. I just feel you're
looking at me. We are recording a

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podcast. I have to look at
you at some point and me, your

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other host, Nick has new patroon
shout this week. Whoo whoo. All

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right, so huge shout out to
Laura who is our newest expert survivalist.

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Thank you very much for joining us, and if anyone else like to join

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us on Patreon, you can check
us out at patreon dot com. Slast

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get a Live podcast. Nice.
Thanks. The one thing you didn't say

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was that we should cue the music. Cue the music now, Hi.

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But that's it. Thanks Lara,
Thank you so much, and welcome to

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part two of our two part coverage
of the Dingo has My Baby case Azaria

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Chamberlain pretty fucked up so far,
it only gets more, so I can't

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wait. Is there anything else we
should say? Or do we want to

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get right into it? Let's get
right into it. I have actively avoided

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any spoilers about the end of this. I have not talked about it with

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anyone. I have not advertised or
episode at all this past couple of weeks,

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or do you normally? I talked
to everybody I see about the really

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constantly. Yes. Wow, I'm
so annoying about it. Well that's not

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surprise if I go to a bar
and I'm like talking to people like you

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have a podcast, right you h
it's super douchy. It's like it's it's

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part of the bit. Wow.
Anyways, so earlier before we started recording,

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you asked me how many pages of
notes? Yeah? How many?

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How many pages you have for part
two? Between the two episodes, I

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had twenty six pages. I have
a swap book about this case, and

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so first part was fourteen pages and
part two is twelve pages. Oh yeah,

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okay, at least it's shorter.
Yeah. So hopefully won't be an

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hour and a half this time,
or we'll see what happened. It was

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a struggle to get that edited.
It hurt in a few hours at the

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the Oh yeah, you said til
four thirty in the morning. Yeah.

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I went text at four to thirty
in the morning when it was ready.

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Yeah, sorry about that. Oh
yeah, that was rough. You did

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a great job. Yeah, you
texted me to make an edit at like

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seven thirty. I was not awake. That's fair. I just did it

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anyways. So where we left off, And first of all, if you

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haven't listened to part one, definitely
listened to part one. It is very

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important. Yeah, it won't make
much sense if if you don't check it

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out. No, And where we
left off in the last episode was that

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blood spatter was found in the family's
car. And I mean, like,

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I talked a lot of shit about
people assuming that the parents were involved somehow,

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So now I feel like an idiot
just doesn't happen very often. Would

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you laugh? No comment? Oh
man? All right. So the Chamberlain

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family had visited Ularu, which is
a national park in Australia, and then

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on the second night that they were
there, August seventeenth, Lindy Chamberlain,

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the mother, left her two children, four year old Reagan and nine week

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old Azaria, in the family's tent
while Lindy, the father, Michael,

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and their six year old son Aiden, were getting dinner not too far away

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from the tent in a communal cooking
area, and they were hanging out with

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two other people, Sally Low and
her husband Greg. They were just like

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another family at the campsite, and
you said the cooking air was what like

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ninety feet away? You said it
wasn't very far, No, thirty yards

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yeah close. Yeah. So,
shortly after Lindy had left the tent with

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Aiden, the family heard a whimper
coming from the tent, and when Lindy

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went back, she saw a dingo
coming out of the tent allegedly holding something.

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What's that? Something to be determined. Oh, Lindy didn't really know.

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But when Lindy looked inside the tent, her baby was gone. So

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a huge search ensued, but no
one could find Azaria or any trace of

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her. But the parents were very
involved in the search. They well,

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they left, they left. We'll
get into it. Relox fucking I don't

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make assumptions. What I say,
I make assumptions apparently correct ones, so

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pretty much exclusively incorrect. What's yes. After an inquest led by a coroner,

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Dennis Barrett of Alice Springs, it
was determined that a dingo had taken

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Azaria based on all the evidence and
witness statements. And let's go over the

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evidence again that we have where we
left off in the last episode. Okay,

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so there are bloodstains on the outside
of the tent, which a forensic

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investigator said was consistent with arterial spray. But if you remember, it like

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sat for a while in storage because
the cop receiving it didn't realize it was

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blood on it, stored improperly in
storage for a long time. Yep.

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Then a pair of Lindy's tracksuit pants
and a sleeping bag from the town's dry

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cleaners was taken into evidence. And
if you remember this, when the family

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returned to their home, a family
friend took these items to the dry cleaner.

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Yep. Then there were the tears
in Azaria's blanket, which looked like

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they were from a knife, not
by teeth, which is once again incredibly

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subjective. And then that man named
Wally, when he was out hiking with

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his family at Ularu some days later, found a torn baby's jumpsuit and a

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shredded diaper on the ground near ula
Yeah, I'm looking at the pictures on

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our Patreon right now. Yeah.
So the jumpsuit was face up with blood

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visible around the neckline. The buttons
are on the front of the jumpsuit was

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undone, and there was blood inside
the jumpsuit. So these look like like

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clasping buttons. They're not like correct. Yeah, so I had a different

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idea of what the buttons were like
the first time we talkedbat because didn't seen

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the photos. Yeah, this makes
a lot more sense to me as to

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how an animal could get something out
of this, Like you just pull it

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and it comes out. Yeah,
yeah, yep. Yeah. So otherwise,

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the clothing wasn't really damaged besides a
tear at the neckline and one of

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the arms. And there was no
I didn't mention this in the last episode,

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but there was no dingo saliva found
on the jumpsuit. Oh yeah.

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Interesting. And then if you remember, investigator Frank Morris picked all of it

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up and then attempted to place it
back the way that he found it.

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I wonder Frank Morris is as a
listener. Doubtful. Yeah, you're an

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idiot. If you are, he
might be dead. It's a while ago.

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Okay, well I would. I
don't wantch death on the man,

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like come on, as I'm saying, like time that it was like twenty

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five years ago. The eighties were
a long time ago. No, that

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was more than twenty five forty Oh
my god, I'm twenty five. Shit,

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in the nineties yeah. God,
see, I automatically assumed that we're

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in year two thousand, wheneverything were
the years. I don't know why I

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was four year two thousands anyways,
So then you know, besides the clothing

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that was found and whatnot, and
the blood, of course, there are

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pap prints found and nine animal hairs
found within the basket that Azaria had been

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placed into sleep. And then,
like I said, we left off with

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the Chamberlain family's car being seized a
year and a month after Zaria's death because

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a British forensic scientist, James Cameron, said that he determined new evidence,

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which let's get into it. I
mean, what evidence could there be that

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would still be there after year and
a half? Thank you? Yeah?

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Correct, Okay, it'd be all
fucked up. So, yeah, it

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is no reason it's ate the fucking
car. Well, his entire thing was

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he claimed that there was an incision
at the neck of the jumpsuit consistent with

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being caused by scissors, not by
teeth. So is he looking for scissors

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in the car? Yeah? Well
he also, if you remember, claimed

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to find a small adult human handprint
in the bloodstains found at the scene,

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and said that there was a distinct
possibility that the clothes had been placed duh,

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and then dug up in place where
they were found, and that was

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unlikely a dingo was involved. This
is ridiculous for me. No, it's

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yeah, I mean it doesn't sound
right, but like I don't, I

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don't fucking know. So this was
literally the only reason another inquest was opened,

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because investigators were really looking for reasons
to hold Michael and especially Lindy accountable

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for Azaria's death. And I'm saying
death, but of course, like no

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parts of Azaria's body was found,
but after three days of her being missing,

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she was assumed and declared dead.
Yeah, which is part of the

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right call. Yeah. Absolutely,
And you know, I wasn't going to

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launch into like a whole debate about
bias. But if we think it's appropriate,

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we can do that. Yeah,
to do it. Okay. So

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I for those of you who might
be listening for the first time, I'm

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so sorry. If you've been listening, I keep talking about it. But

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I'm get a master's degree in wildlife
forensics, and in one of my courses,

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crime scene processing, we talked about
bias and it is crazy. There

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was one study and I'll have to
look it up. I can't remember it

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off the top of my head,
but I'll link it in the episode description.

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And basically, they interviewed a bunch
of different types of forensic investigators,

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so like people who did DNA analysis
versus like blood spatter analysis, and all

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of them more or less said that
they didn't think bias was a problem in

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their specific field, but said bias
was a problem for other people. So

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they're bias and there against their own
bias. Yeah, opinions about bias,

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Yeah, of course. But I
think that's the really dangerous part when you're

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an investigator, because, like I
just said, these people were looking for

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reasons to make Lindy guilty. Why
though, like, what was their reason

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for wanting her to be guilty?
I think they just were determined that it

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wasn't a dingo, so it had
to be this woman. This makes no

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sense to me. So they have
all the evidence that says that Dingo took

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this baby and they go, nah, now they're like, it's probably that

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dumb woman, that witch who wears
black and just baby and black, and

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well, yeah, they just I
don't know, some men just hate women

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and want to think that they murdered
a child. What did they say was

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the baby's name? Again? They
thought that Azaria meant sacrifice in the wilderness,

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Yes, and it really meant like
whom God aids Now, if it

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did mean sacrifice in the wilderness,
that would be really weird, kind of

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sick. I mean, but it
didn't mean that as far as I know.

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It could but like it doesn't,
yeah, or didn't the one doctor

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who said that that was a thing
there there was no evidence after that.

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Yeah. And then also the Chamberlains
were like it was forgot anyways. In

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September of nineteen eighty one, Northern
Territory Police did a four and a half

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hour search of the Chamberlain family's home
and an additional three hundred items of evidence

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were taken, including scissors, clothing, and the family's car. Damn.

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Specifically, the family's car was a
Taranta. If you know what that looks

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like? Ummm no, let me
look it up, okay, And they

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had driven that Tarana to in nineteen
eighty on that family trip where Azaria was

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lost. And of course we left
off in the last episode by saying there's

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blood spatter in the car, so
a sticky substance was found under the dashboard,

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but they concluded it was from a
soda or something similar because blood would

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have dried in two hours. But
they did find real bloodstains on and under

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the front passenger seat, on the
interior door handle, the car's console,

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and on a metal plate under the
dashboard, and it was claimed that the

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spray under the dashboard was consistent with
spray of a liquid under high pressure and

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from a small orifice like an artery. Huh. A towel, Michael's camera

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bag, and a pair of scissors
in the car all had a quote blood

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like substance on them as well.
It's still weird to mean that they would

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have this stuff in the car after
a year and a half, like,

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especially if it was evidence in the
disappearance of your child. Like, I

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can't imagine these people if they did
this. We're stupid enough to keep that

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shit in the car. Also,
they're camping, They're probably using scissors to

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cut open like packs of hot dogs
or share like mistakes. There's tons of

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reasons why there could be shit on
these scissors. Yeah, now, blood

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on the inside the car weird.
Weird. I mean, you grew up

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with brothers like I'm sure someone got
punched in the face one day and blood

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got all over the inside of the
car, right, I mean probably also,

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like I have a bloody gash on
me right now for the cat.

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It just happens, you leak.
When I was in high school, I

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had that durango that had bloodstains all
over it. Oh that's concerning we hunt.

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Oh yeah, yeah, okay,
well yeah, anyways, just don't

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throw shit down on the carpet before
we put the bloody thing onto carpet.

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That's silly. Anyways. So also
in the search of the home, a

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small child sized coffin was found,
and of course this led to everyone freaking

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out, but Michael said it was
actually part of an anti smoking campaign he

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did for Ah. Oh wow,
I don't Oh it is a weird look.

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But also I don't know. People
were freaking out, but it's like

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if they were going to put her
in, the coffin should be in it,

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you know what I mean. Like, and it is a thing where

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people will bury coffins that bodies in
it as a thing of closure, like

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that happens. Wait really oh yeah, oh I didn't know that. Yeah.

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Oh that's sad. It's really sad. Yeah, it's extremely sad because

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you just have a freaking headstone with
no person. Oh yeah, god,

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I even think of that. Yeah. So anyways, if you remember from

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the last episode, Green Charlewood,
the name that you liked, yep,

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one of the guys in charge of
the investigation told Lindy that this was happening

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like the search of their home,
specifically because of the findings that James Cameron

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made, to which Lindy responded,
quote, I didn't know there were any

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dingo experts in London, oh roasted, I like Lindy. In November of

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nineteen eighty one, the findings from
the first inquest done by Barrett were ruled

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out based on the quote new evidence, and thus began the second inquest,

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almost a year after the first one. I have issues with this evidence being

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taken so far after the fact because
obviously it is compromised because it has not

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been kept in a way that would
prevent contamination. Of course not, it

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00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:01,759
doesn't make any sense. And it's
not like the fan only stop using their

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00:13:01,799 --> 00:13:05,360
car, like they used this car
for a year. Yeah, ridiculous.

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Anyways, there's a few more names
to remember in this episode. I tried

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00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,120
to like leave out the names that
I would only mention once, but there's

208
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,279
a few that will have to remember. So the first is Jerry Galvin,

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00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:20,159
who was overseeing the second inquest,
and he was assisted by Barrister des Sturgis,

210
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,600
who was tasked with questioning witnesses.
And Dez made it clear from the

211
00:13:24,639 --> 00:13:26,879
questions that he asked the Chamberlain parents
that he thought that they were guilty of

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00:13:26,919 --> 00:13:31,720
killing Azaria on August seventeenth, nineteen
eighty and he believed that Azaria was killed

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00:13:31,759 --> 00:13:35,279
in the Toronto with a sharp instrument, probably scissors. You're wait, you're

214
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:41,919
telling me this guy told the parents
that he thought that he killed they killed

215
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,320
him. It was just a parent
in the way that he was asking the

216
00:13:45,399 --> 00:13:48,279
questions. Yeah, he was like
being probably over the leading questions. Yeah,

217
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,559
yeah, like hey, so how'd
you do it? Yeah? Why

218
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,159
would you want to kill your child? Yeah, not that you did,

219
00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:54,600
but like if you did want to
kill your kid, why would why why

220
00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:58,559
would you want to kill the kid. And he had that assumption specifically due

221
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,559
to all the blood stains that were
found in the car. Also, if

222
00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,759
you all hear clicking or anything,
it's because Nick and I are recording in

223
00:14:05,799 --> 00:14:09,120
person again, and my dogs are
click clacking around and Penny is currently staring

224
00:14:09,159 --> 00:14:11,039
at him and I can't pat her
because as you won't leave. So Joy

225
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,799
Cool was the biologist inspecting the evidence
found in the car, and she claimed

226
00:14:15,799 --> 00:14:18,679
that the blood in the car belonged
to a human. And we're talking the

227
00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:22,440
very early nineteen eighties, and we
touched on it briefly in the last episode,

228
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:28,679
but for additional context, Watson and
quick Quote discovered using that term loosely

229
00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:31,320
DNA in the nineteen fifties, which
of course would not have been possible with

230
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,519
that Rosalind Franklin. Do you know
who Franklin is? No? Oh my

231
00:14:35,559 --> 00:14:37,919
god. Okay, well that's a
whole a nother that's a different episode,

232
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:43,679
Okay. Anyways, so that was
nineteen fifties. And then polimerase chain reactions

233
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,519
aka PCR was invented in nineteen eighty
six in the UK by Carrie Mullins,

234
00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:50,679
and in that same year, DNA
was used in a criminal investigation in the

235
00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:52,960
UK for the first time. Oh
as that was quick, Like the moment

236
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:58,120
they did the PCR stuff like yeah, immediately straight to use Yeah, which

237
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,159
is awesome. So Azaria's case,
it was just too early and there was

238
00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:05,559
not enough physical evidence collected, likely
corrected the correct way to do any DNA

239
00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:09,799
tests, So even if the blood
was human, there's no way to tell

240
00:15:09,799 --> 00:15:13,440
whose it is. Yeah. So
what Joy did was she checked the stains

241
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:16,159
using a screening test to check the
molecular content of the blood, and she

242
00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:20,679
was looking to determine if the blood
belonged to an adult or a child by

243
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,240
specifically looking for fetal hemoglobin, which
is in babies up until they're six months.

244
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,279
Oh shit, maybe they can't prove
it. So Joy claimed to find

245
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,720
fidal hemoglobin in twenty two places in
the vehicle. Wow, including Michael's camera

246
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,360
bag and on the scissors found in
the car. What if, like her

247
00:15:35,399 --> 00:15:37,960
water broke in the car when they're
gone the way to the hospital or something.

248
00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:39,759
Is that what I mean? Would
that would that be? I mean,

249
00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:43,320
unless I don't think the baby's blood
comes out. I don't know ad

250
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,080
a mother exactly. We know so
little about babies. Yeah. Anyways,

251
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,679
probably not. But the blood in
the tent assumed to have been from the

252
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,840
Dingo attack was quote confirmed to belong
to a baby, and then they just

253
00:15:56,879 --> 00:16:00,519
assumed that it was asarius that could
be a different baby, could have been

254
00:16:00,759 --> 00:16:06,039
baby. Who knows. So I
just told you that Joy found baby blood

255
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,960
in the car, But then she
was also saying that there's baby blood in

256
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:14,120
the tent. Oh wait a minute, Yeah, so the assumption was made

257
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,639
that the baby blood also, I'm
sorry, I'm saying baby blood also once

258
00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:19,600
again content warning. If you don't
like bad stuff happening to babies, don't

259
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,399
listen to this. Rest This basically
were well pass that we speculate wildly,

260
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,879
and by way I mean the people
back in the nineteen eighties and me.

261
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,399
So the assumption was made that the
baby blood in the tent was transferred there

262
00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:33,639
from somebody else, not directly from
a child in the tent. Then what

263
00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:38,679
huh? It gets crazier. So
anyways, Joy reported these findings as evidence,

264
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:45,080
but then directly after she ran these
tests, she destroyed her testing materials,

265
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,600
which she said was common practice,
so her test could not be checked

266
00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:51,639
or replicated. Is that true?
Is it common practice to destroy you?

267
00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:55,159
Oh? My god, no,
not anymore. I don't know what the

268
00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:57,440
fuck they were doing back then,
but that is not okay. As someone

269
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,360
who is so I used to do
it. For a hot minute, did

270
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,400
some HIV research. You did not
throw that stuff away, No, for

271
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,640
any period of time. No,
I mean, I'm sure it was like

272
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,400
you held onto it four years because
you could also want to run other studies

273
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,720
off of it in the future.
But yeah, back then, I guess

274
00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:17,680
allegedly that's what her lab did.
That's fucking dumb, it's that's really fucking

275
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,440
incredibly responsible. Yeah, and remember
that I mentioned that when the Chamberlains got

276
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,960
home from that trip in nineteen eighty, a friend took some of their stuff

277
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,200
to the dry cleaners. Yes,
in court, it was said that there

278
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:32,440
was blood found on Lindy's tracksuit pants, and the dry cleaner specifically said there

279
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:37,480
were thirty two spots of blood that
they found and those pants were sent for

280
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,680
forensic testing, but no blood could
be found by examiners. So they did

281
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,319
a really good job cleaning. Huh. Yeah, I guess, I guess.

282
00:17:44,319 --> 00:17:47,319
So, yeah, that's a good
advertisement for the cleaning company. But

283
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,160
also, when Azaria went missing,
Lindy was wearing a dress. Oh,

284
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,960
so they the prosecution claimed that she
probably changed out of those pants and then

285
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,039
into the dress once Azaria was dead. So here's the overall theory that the

286
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:03,559
prosecution had they presumed that Lindy went
into the car, sat in the passenger

287
00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:07,319
seat, and held the Czaria under
the dashboard and slit her throat with a

288
00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:14,359
pair of ohh and the forensic experts
for the prosecution side said that the blood

289
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,440
in the car was consistent with blood
spray on the like the blood spray and

290
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,319
the dashboard was consistent as if someone
had been holding a child at their feet,

291
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,319
which also would have matched the stains
on Lindy's pants that the forensic examiners

292
00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:29,599
could not find. Oh oh fuck
yeah. And this theory also explained to

293
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,119
them why that kind of blood spatter
and staining was not evident in the tent.

294
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,000
But there was still But I thought
you said when we talked about the

295
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,759
tent blood was that it's from arterial
bleeding. It was a spray, right

296
00:18:40,839 --> 00:18:45,079
yep? I mean would this kid
just be leaking blood from the car to

297
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:49,119
the tent like or just didn't happen
that or they're incorrect? Yeah, yeah,

298
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,839
let's find out what fuck? Like, I mean, they have evidence

299
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,799
of blood, so like what happened? So in court, Lindy testified that

300
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,799
she didn't put on those track pants
until ten pm. Well after Azaria it

301
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:04,559
was already missing, and before that
the pants were lying near the entrance of

302
00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:08,119
the tent. But she also doesn't
remember telling her friend that there was blood

303
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,240
on her clothing. Yeah, and
her friend also testified like I did not

304
00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:15,279
say that to the dry cleaner,
So I don't know what the dry cleaner

305
00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:18,160
is. What the fuck is happening
here? Yeah, it gets crazier.

306
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,359
I'm going to try to keep it
all straight, but like, if you

307
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,160
have questions about how things are ordered, definitely asked. I mean no,

308
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:29,839
Yeah, I'm already confused because like
they're saying shit that directly contradicts what other

309
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,720
people had said in the same case. Yep, it's yeah, it just

310
00:19:32,759 --> 00:19:36,880
makes no fucking sense. And I
want to believe the police, but also

311
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:40,640
like don't want to believe that these
people killed their kid. Yeah, I

312
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,920
mean, it seems like the purpose
of the second inquest was just to like

313
00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:48,559
completely override any evidence found in the
first inquest that said that they weren't guilty.

314
00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:52,079
Once again, these people are trying
to find Lindy guilty. I just

315
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,480
don't get it. Why I couldn't
tell you, Oh God, psychopaths.

316
00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:00,319
So also, the family purchased the
Tronta in nineteen sen nine, so just

317
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,240
a year before. Yeah, and
they said that both of their sons had

318
00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:07,240
nosebleeds in the car. Oh look
at that. And also they had once

319
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,559
picked up a hitchhiker that had sustained
an injury from an accident, and that

320
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,319
person was in their backseat. Okay, these people might be crazy. Why

321
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,799
you picked up a fucking hitchhiker that
gote to an accident A hitchhiker. Yeah.

322
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,319
If I see a hitchhiker carver in
blood, there's no way I'm helping

323
00:20:21,319 --> 00:20:23,599
them. Oh my god. Yeah, thats an image. Yeah. Well

324
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,920
they didn't get murdered, so there's
that. That's good. Yeah. Yeah,

325
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:32,519
so regardless. On February first,
nineteen eighty two, des Sturgis told

326
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:36,839
the coroner there was enough evidence to
show that Lindy had cut her child's throat

327
00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:40,519
in the family car and that Michael
had been an accessory. The next day,

328
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:45,079
coroner Galvin admitted most of the evidence
was circumstantial, but he thought that

329
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,599
a jury might be able to properly
assess guilt, so Lindy was charged with

330
00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:53,480
murder and Michael was charged as an
accessory to murder. After the fact,

331
00:20:53,559 --> 00:20:57,720
what the fuck happened to their kids? Yeah? Oh my god. So

332
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,160
Galvin initially didn't share all of his
findings at the end of his inquest because

333
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,839
he didn't want to bias the muchil
jury. What the fuck Well, he

334
00:21:04,839 --> 00:21:07,480
didn't want to buy us like the
public, although the public was already like

335
00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:12,680
that, which b yeah, yeah, but he felt totally fine sending a

336
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,759
report to the prosecutor of the case
in which he stated that he thought they

337
00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:18,559
were guilty and that a dingo is
not responsible. One of the reasons he

338
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:22,440
didn't think a dingo was responsible was
because of the way that the jumpsuit in

339
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,200
the diaper that Wally found were laid
out to which I say because Frank Morris

340
00:21:26,279 --> 00:21:30,039
literally laid them out after handling them. Great point forgot about that. He

341
00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:33,200
also in this report confirmed that there
was no evidence linking Azaria's brothers to the

342
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,680
case, so that the rumor should
be dispelled, like because some people,

343
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,440
oh ye remember were saying that they
thought the son's killed her, which was

344
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:44,119
not true at all. Yeah,
but in this report Galvin said she died

345
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,200
of extensive and fatal wounds to the
neck, despite having no body to confirm

346
00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:52,079
that this is how she died.
And then he also acknowledged there was no

347
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,480
motive for the murder and even went
as far to say that the witnesses described

348
00:21:56,519 --> 00:22:00,240
Lindy and Azaria's relationship as positive,
but quote, the killing of a child

349
00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:04,759
by a mother is not uncommon happening
end quote to which I say, fuck

350
00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:11,440
you, And it's usually by crazy
people too well, So like, yeah,

351
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,160
if there was evidence of something going
on and she wasn't this her third

352
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,480
kid, They've been through this,
like yeah, And all the witnesses were

353
00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:22,920
saying like, no, they were
fine because usually if you're someone with from

354
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,440
what I have heard, women with
postpartum tend to tell somebody, hey,

355
00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:32,559
I want to kill my children,
and then either people help or they don't.

356
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,559
People say that oh my god.
Yeah I have a family member who

357
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:37,599
said that to a doctor and they're
like no, oh my god, yeah,

358
00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:40,519
I think they shouldn't kill h She
wasn't charge of me for I mean,

359
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,559
did she get arrested like on the
spot. No, it's just like

360
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,359
you put this person back with their
baby that they just said they want to

361
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,000
kill. Nowadays, I think people
are better about that. But yeah,

362
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:52,839
back in the day when we were
kids, they were like, ah,

363
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,359
you're probably fine. Yeah, you're
here, fried, You're you're not gonna

364
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,160
kill it. Gag, go ahead. Recently happened in New Hampshire. Yes,

365
00:22:59,319 --> 00:23:02,119
yeah, so this moment, sorry, this is going down a tangent.

366
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:03,920
But this woman said to her husband
and her doctor like, I want

367
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,240
to kill my children. She had
at least three, I think she had,

368
00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:11,079
like a really newborn baby. And
the doctor said to her husband or

369
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:12,799
her therapist said to her husband,
like, you can't leave her no,

370
00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:15,960
and he she said to him,
can you go to the store and grab

371
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,200
me whenever whatever, He left the
house and she killed all of her children,

372
00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:22,759
and as he got home, she
tried to jump out the window and

373
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:26,279
kill herself but didn't. But all
of her children are now dead. Did

374
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,880
he kill her? No, I
would have, Oh my god, absolutely

375
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:30,759
would have. Oh my god.
I would have gone to jail for the

376
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:36,000
rest of my life. Absolutely.
Yeah. But anyways, postporum surreal It's

377
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,839
apparently that was not the case with
Lude. Yeah. So anyways, of

378
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,960
course, Lindy and Michael pleaded not
guilty and their bail was set at ten

379
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:48,519
grand that's it, yeah, for
murder. Yeah, everything about Australia is

380
00:23:48,599 --> 00:23:53,680
wild gets more wild. Also,
of course, the media painted Lindy as

381
00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:57,640
a murderer, which happens after you
get charge bushit. People kind of assume

382
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,000
guilt when you're charged of the crime, which is ye Casey Anthony runs free.

383
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,920
So finding an unbiased jury would be
really difficult because the media was basically

384
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,000
like, let's find out in this
court case how Lindy killed her daughter.

385
00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:15,799
Three months before the official trial began, news leaked that Lindy was pregnant.

386
00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:21,079
Oh fuck, And on Monday,
September thirteenth, nineteen eighty two, the

387
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:26,400
Chamberlain's trial began with a now seven
month pregnant Lindy. Oh fuck. Twelve

388
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,200
Northern Territory residents were chosen as a
jury, and despite the fact that the

389
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:36,200
Northern Territory had a comparatively high percentage
of Indigenous people, the jury was entirely

390
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,480
Caucasian. I just want to throw
that in there, because like, yeah,

391
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:41,480
how does that works. Yeah,
So we've got two sides here,

392
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:47,160
the Crown prosecutor Ian Barker, trying
to prove that the Chamberlain parents murdered Azaria,

393
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,960
and then the defense with John Phillips
leading it, trying to prove that

394
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,079
the Chamberlains did not kill their trial
Ian Barker claimed that Azaria's jumpsuit in the

395
00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:59,440
fetal hemoglobe and stains found in the
front seat of the car would prove Lindy

396
00:24:59,519 --> 00:25:03,519
killed asarre end quote. The dingo
story was a fanciful lie calculated to conceal

397
00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:07,839
the truth, which is the child
Azaria died by her mother's hand end quote.

398
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,039
Did anyone else see this dingo when
it left the tent? Like everyone

399
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:15,079
else was only ninety feet away.
Like, we'll get we'll get into the

400
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,880
witnesses. Okay, you just wait. The prosecution claimed that when Lindy took

401
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,480
Azaria and ate into bed, that
she had actually gone into the Toronto and

402
00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:26,319
split Azaria's throat with scissors then put
her body in Michael's camera case. Really.

403
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,680
They also claim she made up the
dingo story. And remember how he

404
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,400
said, like at one point during
the search, which you mentioned too,

405
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,880
that Michael and Lindy left for fifteen
to twenty minutes. Yes, this is

406
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,680
when the prosecution said that they hid
the body, which was three miles away.

407
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:47,640
Yeah, in fifteen minutes, yeah, allegedly, so a six mile

408
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:52,039
round trip. Correct In fifteen minutes. Huh, and they took the car.

409
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,400
No, okay, man, you
really should have been on the defense.

410
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,599
I seriously, I'm not even trying
here were you when they Yeah?

411
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:06,240
Well, well not live. So
the prosecution also said that dingoes don't attack

412
00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:08,160
babies and there were no reports of
dingos taking and killing a baby. What

413
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,039
do you mean dingos don't attack babies? If I just leave a baby in

414
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:17,240
the middle of a fucking pack of
dingoes and walk away, am I supposed

415
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,319
to just pick aye? It'll be
fine? What the fuck are we doing?

416
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,079
Well? Also, remember in the
last episode that one investigator was like,

417
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,279
they couldn't carry a baby, let
me hold sand away. Wait yeah,

418
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:30,640
which is again so dumb. So
that forensic investigator James Cameron, the

419
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,319
one who started this entire second inquest
and claimed that Lindy was guilty, presented

420
00:26:33,319 --> 00:26:37,400
images of Azaria's jumpsuit under UV light, attempting to show the handprint that he

421
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,680
thought he saw in the blood on
it. Yep. Other expert witnesses were

422
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,599
called, including some textile experts,
that claimed her shirt had indeed or her

423
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,759
jumpsuit had indeed been cut by scissors
or a knife, not by teeth just

424
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:53,359
the way that the fabric you know, curled away or Yeah. They also

425
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,160
got an odontologist, which is a
forensic dentist, oh sick, who had

426
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:02,680
investigated two dozen dog attacks on humans
and claim the bloodstains were not consistent with

427
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,799
a dingo attack and staid there'd be
more bleeding. I don't. I have

428
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:08,400
no argument against that, Like I
imagine you have no argument against him saying

429
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,960
that he's investigated dog attacks that this
dingo attack didn't lineup. I mean they

430
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,799
have the same scientific name. That
doesn't mean that, but they're different physically,

431
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,519
So why do they not have a
different scientific name. Well, they

432
00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:22,799
have like four different side I know, so like if they can't decide one,

433
00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:25,920
I can't argue with that, you
know, I guess. Yeah.

434
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,640
I mean they are technically by one
source, the same animal, yea whatever,

435
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,319
by multiple sources, not just one
source. But like, no,

436
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,839
I agree, I agree. Like
obviously he's not a fucking dingo expert.

437
00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:41,519
But over this guy claimed that a
baby's head was too big for a dingo's

438
00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:44,960
mouth. Okay, that's dumb.
Remember that dingo scope in their mouth up

439
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:52,480
to niney degrees that's the same.
Now, fuck damn it. Remember thyla

440
00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:57,880
scene did not cause this. I'm
still hoping. I'm saying not so shit.

441
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,839
So the pro execution also stated that
there were no dingo hairs found at

442
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:06,079
the scene. And remember in the
last episode I said that there were nine

443
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,599
hairs found. The prosecution said that
they were identified to belong to a cat.

444
00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:15,400
What did they have a cat?
No? Okay, I don't know.

445
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,680
We're laughing because it's ridiculous, not
because you know what I mean.

446
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,039
In the last episode you said that
dingoes are closer to cats than dogs.

447
00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:30,079
I did not biologically, just like
if you were to compare them to an

448
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:33,000
animal. Okay, yeah, but
like DNA wise, they are not more

449
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,440
closely really to do the cat because
they can hybridize with dogs. See if

450
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,680
a dingo had the same scientific name
as a common house cat, that would

451
00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:45,279
be even wilder. Yeah. And
so I know just a little bit about

452
00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:51,240
how to identify hair by different animals, yep. And you're using a lot

453
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:52,720
of different things. It has to
do with how hair is made up.

454
00:28:52,759 --> 00:28:57,079
So you would use like either the
scales of the hair or the medulla or

455
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,720
medulla which is like the inside of
the hair. And Nick, I'll show

456
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,200
you some of what I'm talking about
from my notes. But different animals have

457
00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:08,720
like the inside shaft of their hair
looks different of their microscope depending on what

458
00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:12,880
animal it is. Ye, but
depending on the picture that is taken and

459
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,759
the way that you're looking at it
under a microscope, it can look really

460
00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:21,200
different. And then also animals have
different hair across their body. Yeah,

461
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,039
so you also have to have knowledge
of like where on the body the hair

462
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:26,559
might have been from, or you
would have to know like, hey,

463
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,680
I'm looking at a dingo, this
is what their hair looks like at each

464
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,559
different part of their body, You
know what I mean. Yeah, Also,

465
00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:36,720
if the follicle is not attached to
the hair, there's no like DNA

466
00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:38,960
evidence that you could get from it. Oh, there's no DNA in hair

467
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,480
if you don't have the follicle.
Oh, I had no idea. And

468
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:47,079
then, of course, the prosecution
used the blood analysis from Joy and said

469
00:29:47,079 --> 00:29:49,799
the way that the blood flowed was
consistent with someone sitting in the front seat.

470
00:29:51,319 --> 00:29:53,519
However, Joy had destroyed the blood
sample so they could not be retested.

471
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,799
Fucking idiot. But Joy's boss said
that her findings were legitimate, and

472
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,160
other experts for the prosecution said that
they agree, and Lindy this whole time

473
00:30:02,279 --> 00:30:04,359
had continually been saying that Azaria had
been wearing a jacket on that night,

474
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,960
which had never been found. So
the prosecution was using this fact to say

475
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,240
that Lindy was a liar because the
jacket had never been found. And Frank

476
00:30:14,319 --> 00:30:18,000
Morris, one of the initial investigators, the one that moved the jumpsuit and

477
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:22,640
diaper, said that he didn't ever
recall Lindy saying that Aria Azaria had been

478
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,720
wearing a jacket. Really yeah,
convenient. Yeah. I also remember they

479
00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:30,319
didn't take witness names. Also,
remember it was super cold out and not

480
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:32,880
having kid and jacket would be weird. Yeah. Well then they'd be like,

481
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,240
she's a terrible mother and hates throwing
your jacket. Yeah. So then

482
00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:38,799
the defense, of course, was
claiming Azaria's death was an extent, So

483
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,240
they brought on two experts in biology
who stated that the testing methods used by

484
00:30:44,279 --> 00:30:48,839
Joy could have produced false positives for
fetal hemoglobin and the bloodstains could have been

485
00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:52,559
from a wide range of things over
the years before this had all been investigated.

486
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,359
Fair I wish we were talking about
a case in America right now,

487
00:30:56,519 --> 00:31:00,680
because I know that specific laws of
what makes somebody an ex expert, but

488
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:03,960
I don't know how this is determined
in Australia. From what we've heard so

489
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,799
far, it's not a high bar, not a high standard. Well,

490
00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:10,559
during an inquest, it can be
anybody, but this is like a legitimate

491
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:14,480
trial. Now. I would love
to be an expert at an inquest.

492
00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:17,799
If anyone out there is ever gonna
be doing an inquest, what would you

493
00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:21,480
be an expert? I have no
idea anything I want. Apparently yeah,

494
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:25,240
I got, according to this story, expert. Yeah. Things to combat

495
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:27,799
the odentologists saying that a dingo couldn't
carry a nine week old baby head in

496
00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:32,440
its mouth, dumb, One of
the biologists for the defense literally just pulled

497
00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:34,519
up a picture of a dingo holding
a baby sized doll by the head,

498
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,519
with the canine teeth extending to the
doll's ears, and the guy in the

499
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:45,440
prosecution was basically like, you got
me. You in this one totally disputed

500
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,079
that. All right, We're just
not going to use this anymore. Yeah.

501
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:51,319
And then the defense brought on an
expert in dental surgery and medicine from

502
00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:55,759
Melbourne who said that the damage to
Asari's jumpsuit found by Wally was indeed consistent

503
00:31:55,759 --> 00:31:59,880
with dingo teeth and in the previous
episode, we talked about some physical differences

504
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,720
between domestic dogs and dingoes, but
one thing I did not mention was that

505
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:07,000
dingoes have longer jaws that opened,
wider and larger teeth than a domestic dog,

506
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,599
and their teeth are considered more sharp
than that of a domestic dog as

507
00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:15,039
well, and they're evenly spaced throughout
the mouth with a slight gap between the

508
00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:17,759
teeth, so they're capable of using
scissor like motion. Yes, yeah,

509
00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:22,000
when they close their mouth, it's
like a scissor almost. Yeah, Okay.

510
00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:25,079
The defense also brought on a dingo
expert, Les Harris to the stand,

511
00:32:25,319 --> 00:32:29,680
who said that if a dingo was
to take a prey item of Azaria's

512
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,559
size, it would likely grab the
entire head, close its jaws to make

513
00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:37,400
the animal immobile, shake their head
to quote, break the neck of the

514
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:42,160
prey, all which was highly unlikely
to produce a lot of blood. The

515
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,319
defense also attempted to discredit James Cameron
by breaking up a past case he worked

516
00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:50,160
on in nineteen seventy two, which
was a murder trial with three suspects in

517
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,880
which James gave an estimated time of
death of the victim, which was pivotal

518
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,920
in the prosecution's case. But then
the case was later dismissed because james estimation

519
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,000
was deemed incorrect And I didn't look
into that case because it would truly take

520
00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:06,880
us down a whole other rabbit hole. But what I did want to mention

521
00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:12,400
for just a second was that as
a forensic investigator, like if I was

522
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,920
to go on a case where I
had to determine something like that, the

523
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:22,160
only time a time of death can
accurately be determined is if someone dies with

524
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,480
a doctor or medical professional. Just
so clear, we still don't have confirmation

525
00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:29,960
that she's dead at all. Correct. Yeah, Okay, but this is

526
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,240
just like going back to James's whole
thing, where like his previous case,

527
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:36,319
because he was saying, like the
time of death of a person, Yeah,

528
00:33:36,319 --> 00:33:40,680
so's he's assuming when her throat was
cut allegedly. No, I'm talking

529
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,599
about the other case where he convicted
three people. Three people, Okay,

530
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,559
yeah, yeah, so he can't
as a forensic investigator unless he was there

531
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:53,359
to like witness it or somebody else
claimed it as a forensic investigator, you

532
00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:58,559
can only give an estimated time since
death, and there are a ton of

533
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:01,000
factors that go into determining that.
But because of this case in Azaria and

534
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,039
we're like, we don't even have
a body. I won't get fully into

535
00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:07,039
it, but basically, as forensic
investigators were not able to give a time

536
00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:10,320
of death. So he's been proven
to be full of shit once already at

537
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,880
least yeah, okay, correct,
that was sorry, That was the whole

538
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,719
point of that once in the court
of law where he probably had to swear

539
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,079
that he's going to tell the truth. Yeah okay, and maybe he thought

540
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:24,840
he was correct, but he can't, like his job, he legally cannot

541
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,800
make those assumptions, and he has
already done it. Well, I don't

542
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,000
know if it was legal or not
back then, but like in terms of

543
00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:34,840
scientifically, he's not able to say
a time okay, yeah, okay,

544
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:40,039
okay. So the defense also called
eyewitnesses from that night, including Sally Lowe,

545
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,800
who had been hanging out with a
family at the barbecue area when they

546
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,880
heard Azaria cry and when Lindy went
to investigate, and Sally's testimony revealed that

547
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,000
when Lindy left to put Azaria and
aid into bed. She was only gone

548
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:54,719
for six to ten minutes, and
then Lindy returned and Sally confirmed that they

549
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,719
had all heard a baby's cry coming
from the Chamberlain's tent, and when she

550
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,599
was cross examined, she was like, yes, it was definitely a baby,

551
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,400
definitely coming from their tent. And
remember in the last episode, I

552
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,760
really briefly mentioned that a couple had
been sleeping in the tent next to the

553
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,639
Chamberlain's campsite and they heard a dingo
growl. Their names were Bill and Judy

554
00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:15,199
West, and Judy was called to
the stand and confirmed that she had heard

555
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:20,320
Lindy cry quote a dingo's got my
baby, and just that was just five

556
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,400
to ten minutes after they heard that
dingo grawl outside of their tent. Judy

557
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:28,119
also stated that earlier that night she
had chased away a dingo that had grabbed

558
00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:30,719
her twelve year old daughter's arm and
started to pull on it. So this

559
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,920
seems like that the case should be
over. You started talking to witnesses who

560
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,960
were there, and they're like,
dingo's trying to guess were there. Yes,

561
00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:40,239
So then Derek Off, if you
remember the ranger who was present that

562
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,880
night that Asari went missing. Was
also called as a witness, and he's

563
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,480
not an idiot so far. No, Derek's great. Yeah. He confirmed

564
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,519
that he had seen dingo tracks exiting
the Chamberlain's tent and that they had found

565
00:35:51,519 --> 00:35:53,599
an impression in the ground that had
a knitted pattern in it, which was

566
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:58,559
consistent with the alleged jacket that the
baby had been wearing that night that was

567
00:35:58,599 --> 00:36:01,360
not found yet. So clearly Linda
has faked all of this somehow, and

568
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:07,000
we need to figure out how.
Lindy. Clearly Lindy has faked all of

569
00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:09,280
this, and we need to figure
out how. And then there's more.

570
00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:14,960
Another witness, Amy would Occur,
was called to the stand. She confirmed

571
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,199
that Lindy and Michael had left for
fifteen to twenty minutes while everyone else was

572
00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:22,480
searching for Azaria, which the prosecution
claimed was when Lindy and Michael were hiding

573
00:36:22,519 --> 00:36:27,360
Asaria's body, but Amy said she
was the one that actually told the couple

574
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,119
to go on that walk, like
to get away from everything and kind of

575
00:36:30,119 --> 00:36:34,039
like relax. Yeah, yeah,
it makes sense, And she was saying

576
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:36,880
like the reason that they didn't join
the search is because they wanted to be

577
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,760
with their two living children, like
they don't want to leave their other kids.

578
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,280
Yeah, which is fair. And
also, what are you gonna do

579
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,280
take your two little kids to search
for their dead sister? No, I

580
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,800
mean personally I would leave one parent
and then the other parent would help.

581
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,440
But yes, they are. Again, we mentioned in the last episode in

582
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,840
the process of grieving and freaking the
fuck out that their kid was just taken

583
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:01,360
by a dingo. Yep, that
the mother all happened allegedly, Yeah,

584
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:07,719
allegedly. It'd be pretty freaky.
So then another witness, Wally, the

585
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,480
man who had found Azarius clothing when
he was hacking with his family on August

586
00:37:09,519 --> 00:37:13,159
twenty fourth, also appeared in court
for the defense. Let me guess.

587
00:37:13,199 --> 00:37:15,039
He said the pictures that are the
photos were just not correct at all.

588
00:37:15,159 --> 00:37:19,239
Yeah, oh my god, good
job. Yeah. He criticized Frank Morris

589
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,880
for handling the clothing and said that
the photos taken did not accurately depict how

590
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,159
he found this because that they were
literally placed by Frank. Yeah. So

591
00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:30,360
it's been bothering me so much to
read the prosecution saying like, oh,

592
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:31,000
the clothes look like they were a
place. It's like, yeah, because

593
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,960
you're guy replaced them. They were
placed. Yeah, he didn't do the

594
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,719
investigation correctly. So. Also,
Lindy was called to the stand by the

595
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:43,159
defense and her lawyer asked her to
hold up her hand to what James Cameron

596
00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:46,960
was alleging was an adult human's handprint, And not only was Lindy's index finger

597
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:52,159
too long for that to be her
handprint, but the print showed four fullangies,

598
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,679
and human hands only have three fulangies
in each finger. What the fuck?

599
00:37:57,079 --> 00:38:00,119
Where the what the fuck is about
to happen? Here? S?

600
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:06,400
What the fuck is about to happen? Is it the monkeys? Is there

601
00:38:06,519 --> 00:38:10,840
some kind of ape in Australia that's
taking kids? No, not that I

602
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,760
know of. That never comes up
again. So that was it. Also,

603
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:20,239
they just so they find a handprint
and now it's done. They're like,

604
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,199
oh, yeah, it's not human. We're the aliens are out there.

605
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,519
Man, it's possible it wasn't even
a handprint that it was just like

606
00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:29,280
a weird pattern that he thought was
that's most likely what it is. Yeah,

607
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,159
so it's probably not aliens. I'm
so sorry. It could be though,

608
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:35,719
we don't know. Anyways. Michael
was also called to the stand and

609
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,320
was questioned as to why he called
the Tsaria's death quote the will of God,

610
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,239
to which he was like, I'm
religious, so everything is God's will.

611
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,000
But he also didn't recall making the
statement, so that was kind of

612
00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:50,400
it. I mean, it's a
fair answer, yeah, I being like,

613
00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:52,239
hey, why do you think God
did this? Well, God does

614
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,159
everything. Yeah, it's just kind
of like such an easy answer, like,

615
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,440
yeah, I'm a minister, not
to if you noticed, but I

616
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,440
believe in God. So this case
was called the Trial of the Century,

617
00:39:02,599 --> 00:39:07,079
and I'm not living in Australia,
but from what I understand, this is

618
00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:12,039
like the biggest case that's ever been
televised, if not like one of the

619
00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:15,920
biggest. Really, oh my god, yeah this is you wait. So

620
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,079
Ian Barker, who was leading the
prosecution, said that they indeed did not

621
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:21,960
have a motive for why Linda or
Michael would kill Zaria, but it wasn't

622
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,400
their job to prove that, and
all they had to do was prove that

623
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,280
a murder was committed. He went
on in his closing statements, saying to

624
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,559
the jury that quote, how could
you possibly convict the Dingo on this evidence?

625
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,800
And the case against the Dingo would
be laughed out of court because of

626
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,440
the apparent lack of evidence against the
dingo, noting a lack of dingo hair

627
00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:44,760
or drag marks by the tent,
the fact that no one actually saw a

628
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,440
dingo caring a baby since Linda could
not confirm that that's what she saw,

629
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:52,599
and the relatively undamaged condition of Azaria's
jumpsuit. But there's also no evidence against

630
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,079
humans either. Yeah, there's paw
prince. I don't know why they just

631
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:59,960
like conveniently acknowledge that, and all
the witnesses that say that there were dingo

632
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,519
there, Yeah, messing up kids. Yeah. So, John Phillips,

633
00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:07,199
leading the defense, said that while
prosecutors were not responsible for proving motive,

634
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,159
that Lindy was a doting mother and
was not suffering from postnatal depression or anything

635
00:40:12,159 --> 00:40:15,320
else that would have led her to
harm her children. So on October twenty

636
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,599
eighth, Great Day, nineteen eighty
two, Justice Mearhead, which is the

637
00:40:19,679 --> 00:40:22,599
judge overseeing the trial, told the
jury, which I've never heard this happening

638
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:27,800
before, to remember that the defense
was not challenging that blood had been found

639
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,440
in the car, just that the
tests may not have accurately proved the blood

640
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,760
belonged to a child, and that
it could have come from many sources,

641
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,639
and that the Chamberlains were not responsible
for proving what it was or how it

642
00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:43,119
got there. He also told the
jury the judge told the jury to remember

643
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,440
that Sally Low had heard a baby's
cry coming from the tent, and if

644
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:50,800
true, would disprove the prosecution's claim
that Azaria had been killed in the Toronto

645
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,760
before then. So the judges directly
telling the jury like, hey, this

646
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:58,239
is all all bullshit kind of yeah, like he was really like for the

647
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,079
defense, it's to me, it
seems like the prosecution is going like way

648
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,760
overboard with their evidence and it's making
and the judge like this is ridiculous.

649
00:41:07,079 --> 00:41:10,880
Yeah. Yeah. So the jury
deliberated for six and a half hours and

650
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,320
people are fucking stupid, and they
delivered their verdict on October twenty ninth,

651
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:21,440
nineteen eighty two. They found Lindy
and Michael guilty for the murder of Azaria.

652
00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:24,719
Chamberlain, that's so fucking stupid,
And they said. The jury had

653
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,559
actually been split for quite some time, with four members for a conviction,

654
00:41:29,039 --> 00:41:32,000
four for acquittal, and four undecided, but one juror later told the press.

655
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,880
It all came down to whether or
not a dingo was responsible, which

656
00:41:36,199 --> 00:41:40,719
does That's not that's that's not how
it works. Yeah, I know,

657
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,400
but is that crazy, Like,
well, it wasn't a dingo, so

658
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,639
I had to be her. Also, why was it not a dinggo?

659
00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:50,360
I know it still led to it
could have been a dingo, but yeah,

660
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,079
it's just crazy to me that they
like it seems that they had two

661
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:55,599
options, either Lindy or Dingo,
and they're like, well, it wasn't

662
00:41:55,639 --> 00:41:58,519
Dingo, so had to be Lindy. But couldn't you just say like it

663
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:00,400
was neither, Like we didn't enough
evidence to prove e there? No,

664
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:05,840
I mean, the dingo has no
part of this decision at all. You

665
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,639
don't have to say what happened.
You just say that she didn't do You

666
00:42:07,679 --> 00:42:12,079
just have to prove guilt of the
crime that is being charged. Yeah,

667
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:15,400
and there's no way they Oh wow, that's that's wild. Isn't that shocking?

668
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:20,199
That's so fucking dumb. I really
really hope that they didn't kill this

669
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,880
kid because I don't want to be
wrong again. So Michael was sentenced to

670
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:28,840
an eighteen month suspended sentence with good
behavior. What this means he did not

671
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:34,840
go to prison for murder, for
accessory to murder because because of your own

672
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,960
kid, because you are swing in
size. Well no, but if we're

673
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,760
going to charge them, like,
what are we doing? Because the judge

674
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,639
I think was trying to give him
the light of sentence he could, so

675
00:42:44,639 --> 00:42:49,000
he gave him eighteen month suspended sentence
with good behavior. But as for eight

676
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,480
month pregnant Lindy, the judge said, quote, you have been found guilty

677
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:57,360
of murder by verdict of a jury. There is only one sentence I can

678
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,400
pass on you. The sentence is
you will be in prison with hard labor

679
00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:06,000
for life, which that makes sense. Yes. So obviously, like Lindy

680
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:08,679
wasn't lucky that she was convicted of
murder, but I think she was lucky

681
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:13,199
that she was convicted at this time
because the death penalty had been banned in

682
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:19,079
Australia's territories in only nineteen seventy three. So it is extremely likely that if

683
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:21,800
it had not been banned until after
that, that she would have been sentenced

684
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:27,079
to death. Can you imagine?
No. Also, as we're recording this,

685
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,360
I'm wearing a shirt that says let
the women do the work, which

686
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,199
is from a podcast one of my
favorites, true Cime Obsessed, and they

687
00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:36,000
cover like true crime documentaries and a
toy. Twenty two, they did a

688
00:43:36,039 --> 00:43:37,960
series called Let the Women. It's
all about amazing women who have done things

689
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:43,199
like exonerate people from Death's Row in
the US and like solving murder cases.

690
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,000
So if that's up your alley,
I can link to an episode in our

691
00:43:45,039 --> 00:43:50,079
description about let's holt me do the
work. Go check it out, Yeah,

692
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,320
because there's some really good ones about
people being taken off death Row who

693
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,320
were wrongfully convicted. Happens, happens, a lot, happens, more than

694
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:00,519
movie would like. Once it's too
many times. Lindy was sent to a

695
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:05,639
maximum security prison at Barrama Prison outside
of Darwin, where she was one of

696
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,280
six female inmates. That's it,
that's it. Wow. In less than

697
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,559
a month into her sentence, on
November seventeenth, nineteen eighty two, she

698
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:16,280
gave birth to a baby girl.
Oh fuck, they made up a name

699
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,400
for her. She didn't get to
name her own kid. No, she

700
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,599
and Michael made up a new name. Oh god, okay. They named

701
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:28,400
their daughter Kalia. And they said, or Lindy specifically said, quote let

702
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,320
them try to make something out of
that. They literally made up a name.

703
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,679
Well yeah, because people with tsaria
you know what they mean. So

704
00:44:34,679 --> 00:44:36,920
she was like, fuck it,
we'll make it up. So Lyndy and

705
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,320
Michael appealed their convictions for a number
of reasons. So just two days after

706
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:45,519
giving birth to Kalia, Lindy was
released on bail, what which, of

707
00:44:45,559 --> 00:44:49,159
course made the general public at large
piss that she was released at all,

708
00:44:49,679 --> 00:44:52,719
some of which saying quote, why
should she be given special privileges for having

709
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:59,000
a baby. Yes, And they
got like sent to live with their church

710
00:44:59,039 --> 00:45:02,679
in like a like isolated area for
a bit, and their church was harassed

711
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:07,599
really harshly, with one instance of
a Seventh day Adventist church having a sign

712
00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:12,519
put out front by somebody reading quote
dingo pops for sale applied within So they're

713
00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:16,360
beating it was rough. However,
their appeals were rejected in a federal court

714
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:22,119
three to zero in April of nineteen
eighty three on all grounds. I'm still

715
00:45:22,159 --> 00:45:28,199
blown away by the fact that they
got out on bail for murder. Yeah,

716
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,039
well, so her appeal was rejected, and then ten months later,

717
00:45:31,079 --> 00:45:35,920
in February of nineteen eighty four,
Australia's High Court refused to set aside her

718
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,760
conviction on a three to two vote, so she was sent back to prison.

719
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,920
I'm still just shocked that they would
let her out. I don't know

720
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,440
how any of this works. I
mean, clearly somebody somewhere agrees that she

721
00:45:45,559 --> 00:45:49,760
did not do this. They're letting
her out, Like if they really thought

722
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,239
that she was a murderer, they
would not do that. So after this,

723
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:58,440
the country was deeply divided on this
issue, and Lindy in prison was

724
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,000
so inundated with mail that her prison
couldn't keep up. So she started writing

725
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,320
a monthly bulletin to people who subscribe
to it. She has a fucking blog,

726
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,639
well in pretty much prison. Yeah, kind of Australia is wild,

727
00:46:10,199 --> 00:46:15,880
weird man. Now, remember in
the last episode I said that there was

728
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,559
an instance of a dingo at Ularu
grabbing a three year old kid by the

729
00:46:19,599 --> 00:46:22,239
head and attempting to drag it away. Yes, so the defense had tried

730
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,599
to find that family for the trial
but was unable to do so. But

731
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,800
in early nineteen eighty four the family
came forward and said yes, this did

732
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:36,519
happen. So Derek Hoff, after
the family came Forward wrote a letter to

733
00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:40,599
the National Times newspaper conquerred inquiry into
the evidence presented in the trial, and

734
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:45,440
in the letter he said he's heard
dingo experts state that a dingo wouldn't enter

735
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,440
a tent and attack humans, but
he had lived at Ularu for sixteen years

736
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,440
and said he knew the dingoes in
the area were conditioned quote by into the

737
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:58,639
people, so their behavior was unique
and not fully understood by anybody. He

738
00:46:58,639 --> 00:47:00,119
said he didn't have any doubt that
a dingo could attack children, and a

739
00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:05,280
dingo carrying a baby was feasible.
He ended the letter by saying, I

740
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,719
don't think any of us should be
comfortable with the present situation. No,

741
00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:13,320
and that this is a fucking park
ranger. Yeah, who's trying to get

742
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,320
this woman out of jail. Yeah. He's not a lawyer, No,

743
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,239
just a guy who knows about dingo. Yeah, who's like, yes,

744
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:22,840
this happened. Oh wow wow.
So, in response to Derek's letter,

745
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,639
a group of thirty one scientists signed
an open letter disputing the findings that Joy

746
00:47:25,679 --> 00:47:30,360
Coole had found fetal hemoglobin in the
Chamberlain's car in June of nineteen eighty five.

747
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:35,679
The Chamberlain's attorney, Stuart Tipple,
began a media campaign for the family,

748
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,679
which led to the forming of the
Chamberlain Innocence Committee. The group called

749
00:47:38,679 --> 00:47:44,199
for the Northern Territory authorities to launch
a Royal Commission aka a public inquiry into

750
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,960
the case, and they also released
a forty page document called the Blue Book.

751
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:52,039
The Blue Book contained new evidence that
the family's attorney had gathered with his

752
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:54,599
own forensic team, and it also
had an application for an inquiry into the

753
00:47:54,639 --> 00:47:59,320
case. Within the blue Book,
the claims of Aaria's clothing being cut by

754
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:05,480
scissors was debunked because a professor in
textile sciences from Kansas had run some studies

755
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,679
where he gave infant clothing to dingoes
and they displayed the same cuts the Asarius

756
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:14,679
jumpsuit had. So also, the
nine animal hairs found that the prosecution claim

757
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,119
belonged to a cat. Yeah,
the blue books said two were human,

758
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:24,039
one was inconclusive, and the remaining
six belonged to a k nine said did

759
00:48:24,039 --> 00:48:28,119
they even look at the hair?
Dude? Well, it's subjective, right,

760
00:48:28,599 --> 00:48:30,320
you're yeah, you're right, the
right. More like, if you

761
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,559
guys want to google like different types
of animal hair under microscopes. It is

762
00:48:34,599 --> 00:48:37,039
not easy. So for example,
in my class where we were learning about

763
00:48:37,039 --> 00:48:42,639
this, we had a quiz on
determining, like we had six different pictures

764
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,079
and each one belonged to a different
animal, and my teacher gave us like

765
00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:49,679
a list of what it could possibly
be. None of us said the same

766
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,159
thing. Good, all said different. And obviously none of us are experts.

767
00:48:53,159 --> 00:48:55,679
But like that's how subjective it can
be, you know. Was that

768
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,880
kind of a points she was trying
to make, Like yes, yeah,

769
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,400
it was like, hey, this
does mean shit. Yeah, okay,

770
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,800
no, it doesn't mean shit,
but like it is subjective and you gotta

771
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,119
be like you have to rely on
experts for this, yeah, okay.

772
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,920
So also the blood spray that was
found in the family car, yep,

773
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:15,480
the blue Book claimed the quote blood
was actually a combination of a sticky beverage

774
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:22,079
like soda along with paint spray from
the manufacturing of the car. Really,

775
00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:25,079
So back to Joy's blood tests where
she claimed that she found the fetal hemoglobin.

776
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:29,320
She had us an anti serum,
and an anti serum is blood containing

777
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,920
specific antibodies in these tests to determine
that fetal hemoglobin was present, but the

778
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,639
German manufacturer of the anti serum said
it was not capable of determining these results

779
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:45,760
because it quote didn't respond exclusively to
fetal hemoglobin and could react to the presence

780
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:52,400
of other proteins. So everything is
just not reliable. Yeah, which doesn't

781
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:57,400
that make you wonder like, what
else did she provide to people, or

782
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,559
like her lab provide as evidence and
it wasn't even correctly done. Oh fuck?

783
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:06,199
Isn't that scary? Yeah? Yeah, And that's kind of something we

784
00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:09,920
talk about in the wildlife forensics course
or program I'm taking, is like,

785
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:14,360
if you are sending evidence to a
lab, make sure that the lab you're

786
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,920
sending it to is reliable, Like
you have to figure that out which ones

787
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,559
are reliable not reliable. But there's
just like unreliable labs out there. So

788
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:23,000
yeah, and you just mentioned that
they just went back to the car and

789
00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:27,800
did these tests again, right,
Yeah. Why didn't they do that before

790
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,239
when they were like, oh,
like this evidence has been destroyed, we

791
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:31,199
can't test it again. Why don't
they just go back to the car and

792
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,199
take more at the first time.
Maybe they thought it was two to grade.

793
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,079
I don't know, maybe, Okay, Well, I mean the first

794
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:45,559
time. But on November twelfth,
Soda nineteen eighty five, the Northern Territory

795
00:50:45,639 --> 00:50:51,880
government rejected the application for an inquiry
and this is how they responded. Quote.

796
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:57,079
This campaign has had the intended effect
the building up of antagonism towards the

797
00:50:57,079 --> 00:51:00,599
Northern Territory Government, which it seems
to portray us hard, cruel and lacking

798
00:51:00,639 --> 00:51:06,679
in compassion. At stake is law
and order and faith in the due processes

799
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,480
of the legal system, recognized as
the fairest in the world. Quote.

800
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:14,760
So basically they were like stumping above
us. I think you could literally copy

801
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,960
and paste that as a response to
that, like, yes, we have

802
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:21,840
no faith in you, and you
are too hard and not compassionate. Also,

803
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:23,800
fuck compassion. It's just a matter
of the facts, and they're not

804
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,840
getting the facts. Well, it
seems like they're rejecting it just because they're

805
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,119
like, we can't admit that we're
wrong or else. You guys, Yeah,

806
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:34,039
because they invested so much fucking time
and money into this and it's the

807
00:51:34,039 --> 00:51:37,840
most what was it, you say, was the most publicized trial in the

808
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,880
history of the country. They have
to be right. They have to be

809
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,400
If they're wrong, the country explodes. So maybe not physically, but you

810
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:50,800
know, emotionally, people get pissed. Yeah. So two weeks later,

811
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:57,360
the government also rejected an application for
Lindy to be released early. Why they's

812
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,679
like, nah, screw you want
the flock. But there is another turn

813
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,760
in this case that is even more
wild, thanks to a British guy who

814
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,760
could not follow rules. Oh those
are fun. Two months later, on

815
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,960
Sunday, January twenty sixth nineteen eighty
six, thirty one year old David Brett

816
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,000
was alone at Ularu's National Park and
had the intent of climbing Uluru, which

817
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:19,320
we now know as the last episode
is a big no no, don't do

818
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,840
this, no do it. So
at this point, the park accommodations had

819
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,280
changed since Azari's death, and the
campground where she died was no longer open,

820
00:52:27,159 --> 00:52:29,880
so David waited until later in the
day to start climbing because it was

821
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,639
super hot. But as he set
out, a park ranger told him that

822
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:37,480
camping on Ularu was not allowed because
it was late. So the guy was

823
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,159
like, you're definitely not going to
make it. Come back down. Yeah,

824
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,159
So David said he'd followed the customs
of the traditional owners, but later

825
00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:46,320
that night, at seven forty PM. Local indigenous people saw him climbing in

826
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:52,440
a forbidden area and reported him to
the park authorities, so rangers set out

827
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,480
to kick him out, but they
were unable to find him. A week

828
00:52:54,599 --> 00:52:59,800
later, other tourists were hiking around
the base of Olaru when they found David's

829
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:04,119
body. Oh fuck, while he
had been climbing, he had fallen two

830
00:53:04,199 --> 00:53:07,760
hundred meters to his death, and
his body had been scavenged by animals.

831
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:13,400
And on February second, rangers set
out to gather all of his remains and

832
00:53:13,519 --> 00:53:16,000
like the items from his bag and
stuff like that. And this site was

833
00:53:16,039 --> 00:53:20,920
one hundred and fifty meters from where
Wally had found Azaria's clothing years before.

834
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,519
It is now that I would like
to share one of the phrases my master's

835
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:30,440
advisor, Susan Underkoffler, shared with
us, which is the absence of evidence

836
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:37,599
is not evidence of absence. Because
as they were searching for David's bones,

837
00:53:38,039 --> 00:53:45,400
the park rangers found a half buried
white baby's jacket motherfucker's with stiff sleeves and

838
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:51,719
a button hanging from the neck.
If you remember, the prosecution had claimed

839
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,039
that Lindy was a liar because She
said that Azaria had been wearing a jacket

840
00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:57,719
like this in the night that she
was killed, but the jacket had never

841
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,360
been found until now. Of this
jacket not only showed that Lindy was not

842
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:06,480
a liar, but it also explained
why no saliva had been found on Azari's

843
00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,920
jumpsuit, because this jacket would have
absorbed any saliva from the dingko's mouth.

844
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:15,639
Motherfuckers. So, twelve days after
the discovery of the jacket, a Royal

845
00:54:15,679 --> 00:54:21,519
commission into the case was announced and
Lindy was released from prison on remission and

846
00:54:21,599 --> 00:54:25,840
was given unrestricted access to legal advisors. So on February seventh, nineteen eighty

847
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:30,960
six, Lindy went home to her
family, including her now four year old

848
00:54:30,039 --> 00:54:36,800
daughter, and in May of nineteen
eighty seven, Justice Trevor Morling released a

849
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:42,719
three hundred and seventy nine page report
saying that the prosecution's case relied heavily on

850
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,440
experts saying that a dingo wouldn't enter
a tent and attack a child, but

851
00:54:45,519 --> 00:54:49,599
he said they had not taken into
account that Uluru dingoes were not like typical

852
00:54:49,679 --> 00:54:52,519
dingoes. Not only did park rangers
say that it was likely to have happened,

853
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:58,480
but they had previously expressed concerns about
an attack of this exact nature happening.

854
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,480
Also, the the prosecution assumed that
in five to ten minutes, Lindy

855
00:55:02,519 --> 00:55:07,159
would have gone into the tent without
Aidan following her, changed into track pants,

856
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:13,039
taken Azari to the car, killed
her, which also would somehow have

857
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:16,039
to have have time to let Azaria
bleed out and then hide a Zaria's body,

858
00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:19,679
clean up the car, change out
of the pants, get a can

859
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,559
of beans, go to the tent, leave blood in the tent, get

860
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:24,960
aiden, and go back to the
barbecue area, all while the prosecution could

861
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,519
not provide a reason why she would
have done this. I mean this again,

862
00:55:29,559 --> 00:55:31,719
this is all shit. We've already
known through all the evidence that you've

863
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:37,159
provided. Yeah, why why did
it take this many people? Why did

864
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:39,639
they not put this all together in
the first place. Yeah, that seems

865
00:55:39,639 --> 00:55:45,760
like something that should be looked into. So Justice Morling also said, quote

866
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,519
it is extraordinary that the person's at
the barbecue area at the time of and

867
00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:53,760
immediately after Azaria's disappearance, accepted Missus
Chamberlain's story and noted nothing about her appearance

868
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:59,519
and conduct, suggesting that she had
suddenly killed her daughter end quote and quote

869
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,119
I am far from being persuaded that
miss Chamberlain's account of having seen a dingo

870
00:56:02,199 --> 00:56:07,519
near the tent was false and that
quote. If the evidence before the commission

871
00:56:07,559 --> 00:56:09,840
had been given at this trial,
the trial judge would have been obligated to

872
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:15,639
direct the jury to acquit the chamberlain's
end quote. Other people saw the dingoes,

873
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:22,239
but also that was evidence. Like
in the trial that lady was like,

874
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,079
I heard a dingo growld and the
baby cried, and Sally was like,

875
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,280
Lindy was with me. We heard
a baby cry. There were dingo

876
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:34,559
prints outside the tent. Yep.
Everything about this like seems as straightforward as

877
00:56:34,559 --> 00:56:39,039
it can be. Moreover, Justice
Morling said it was entirely reasonable that a

878
00:56:39,079 --> 00:56:43,960
dingo had taken Azaria with the intent
to consume her. So following this,

879
00:56:45,039 --> 00:56:51,639
the Northern Territory authorities offered the Chamberlains
a pardon, which would not clear them

880
00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:53,400
of their guilt, to which,
of course, the Chamberlains were like,

881
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:59,760
no, we didn't do this,
so don't just give us a pardon say

882
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:04,719
that they would be acquitted. Yeah, yeah, So finally, in September

883
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,559
of nineteen eighty eight, the Northern
Territory Court of Criminal Appeals agreed with Justice

884
00:57:08,599 --> 00:57:15,719
Morling and quashed all convictions against the
chamberlains. So fucking dumb nineteen eighty eight.

885
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,440
Do you know how many people lost
their jobs over this? Hopefully at

886
00:57:17,519 --> 00:57:20,920
least one. I don't think a
single person did, oh, Frank did?

887
00:57:21,039 --> 00:57:22,920
I bet? I bet? Not
a single person got any kind of

888
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:28,719
recommand for this. They sought restitution
for their suffering and lost wages from the

889
00:57:28,719 --> 00:57:32,360
Northern Territory government in the amount of
four million, but Lindy got nine hundred

890
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:37,400
thousand and Michael got four hundred thousand, which is much lower than they requested.

891
00:57:37,519 --> 00:57:40,840
Yeah. A spokesperson for the Attorney
General later stated that the reason the

892
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:45,599
amount was so much lower was because, quote, the government had no legal

893
00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:49,280
obligation to make a payment at all. That's bullshit, that's fucked up,

894
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,800
which, of course, like no
amount would make up for everything that happened,

895
00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:55,719
kenvincing entire country that someone killed their
child when they didn't. Yeah,

896
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:00,960
And luckily the public was like,
that's fucked up. So they finally were

897
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,280
like, hey, you guys are
messing up. Yeah. So, because

898
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,639
the conviction was overturned. This meant
that the second inquest into the case was

899
00:58:07,679 --> 00:58:12,440
incomplete, so a third inquest started
in December of nineteen ninety five, but

900
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,840
it was less involved, and in
the end the coroner said that Michael and

901
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:21,480
Lindy were not involved in Azaria's disappearance
in any way, but he didn't feel

902
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,880
that it could be proven that a
dingo did it, so he said it

903
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:28,719
was an open finding and the cause
of Azaria's death was listed as unknown,

904
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:32,559
and he clarified that speculation could still
not disprove that Lindy and Michael were innocent.

905
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:37,199
That's that's fucking stupid. Just say
that is stupid, Like I understand

906
00:58:37,239 --> 00:58:40,039
not being able to say that a
dingo did it, Like, okay,

907
00:58:40,039 --> 00:58:45,920
you can't. No one truly knows
for sure how that baby died, but

908
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:51,320
that the obvious answer is that a
dingo did it. So that's pretty much

909
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,519
it in the case until two thousand
and four. What the fuck? I

910
00:58:54,559 --> 00:59:00,199
still think two pages? What when
a seventy eight year old man Frank claimed

911
00:59:00,199 --> 00:59:05,800
to be at Ularu on August seventeenth, nineteen eighty when he and two friends

912
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:12,719
encountered a dingo carrying a baby?
What? What? Tied the fuck out.

913
00:59:13,159 --> 00:59:17,960
This motherfucker, This motherfucker. Two
thousand and four, twenty four years

914
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:23,280
later, he claimed that he shot
the dingo and then he and his friends

915
00:59:23,599 --> 00:59:27,800
washed the blood off the baby.
Then realized that they would be tampering with

916
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,840
evidence, so they put her body
into a bag, and then Frank said

917
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:37,440
he left and his other two friends
said that they would take the baby to

918
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,000
the police. But then he said
that he didn't think that they did that,

919
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:43,079
and that he thought his friends buried
Assaria in their backyard. That is

920
00:59:43,159 --> 00:59:45,440
so fucked up. And he knew
about this, Yeah, he knew about

921
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:51,159
it. It was the most famous
case in Australian history. Oh my god,

922
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:53,400
why did you pick up Penny during
that You were so distraughting to hold

923
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:58,320
somebody? No, because she came
running over because I was screaming. So

924
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,199
he said he didn't come forth sooner
becau he didn't want to get in trouble

925
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:04,920
for discharging a firearm at a national
park, to which that is not what

926
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,880
people would be concerned about. You
dumb motherfucker. You shot a dingle with

927
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:12,039
a baby in its mouth. You're
fine, You're so fine. I don't

928
01:00:12,079 --> 01:00:15,280
understand it. I don't get this. I don't get so Conveniently, Frank's

929
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,159
two friends had passed away, so
there was no way to prove or disprove

930
01:00:17,199 --> 01:00:21,280
his claim. And conveniently he's not
part of the people that buried the body

931
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,440
allegedly. Yeah, so investigators had
doubts of the authenticity of the story,

932
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:29,840
and ultimately, like his story was
completely dismissed, which is fair, Like,

933
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:31,639
I mean, did they not ask
him where the body was buried?

934
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,920
Well, he said, like he
pointed out his friend's house, but like,

935
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:38,199
obviously it's friends of were dead,
so somebody knew own the house,

936
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,280
and the new guy that owned the
house said, you can only look in

937
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:45,840
my backyard if you can prove that
there's evidence that it's here. Fair.

938
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:50,199
Yeah, probably be somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, so they didn't. I'd

939
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,199
rather not have the garment digging in
my backyard. Yeah, so nothing really

940
01:00:53,199 --> 01:00:58,719
happened there. Also, like no
one at during that night heard a gunshot,

941
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:00,920
you know what I mean. Yeah, and there was three hundred people

942
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,519
searching for this baby, Like it'd
be pretty obvious who you should tell,

943
01:01:04,639 --> 01:01:07,960
and people would have heard that.
Why would you lie about something like that?

944
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,280
People are weird. It's how weird
do you want that you're gonna fucking

945
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:15,800
lie about shooting a dingo that had
this famous baby. Oh you're really not

946
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:17,559
gonna like this next story? Oh
my god. It's Then in two thousand

947
01:01:17,559 --> 01:01:22,039
and five, a twenty five year
old woman came forth to police, Oh

948
01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:24,559
my god, no way, saying
that she was Azary no way, no

949
01:01:24,639 --> 01:01:31,559
way, because she was an orphan, thought that she looked like Lindy and

950
01:01:31,679 --> 01:01:37,880
said that she had flashbacks to being
a nine week old baby being carried by

951
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:43,079
dingoes and that she she said she
had marks on her hands from dogs,

952
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,079
but that her foster mom would never
explain why that she had like bite marks

953
01:01:46,079 --> 01:01:49,880
from dogs in her hands. Australia, what are you doing? These claims

954
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,239
were dismissed. Yes, yes,
damn it. I wouldn't believe these stories,

955
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,320
damn it. I mean, like
it would have been cool if it

956
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:59,760
had been Zaria, but like there's
no what so can we do twenty three

957
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:00,679
and me anyway, just to just
to find out? I know, I

958
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:02,880
wondered that too. I was like, was there any DNA like confirmation?

959
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,440
Maybe not? Yeah, well it
was two thousand and five, so like

960
01:02:07,519 --> 01:02:10,440
maybe could have been done. But
now we could do it easily. Let's

961
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:14,679
go find this lady. She's still
what forty something right? Yeah? Maybe?

962
01:02:14,719 --> 01:02:16,920
Well no, I don't think the
family was interested in that. But

963
01:02:17,199 --> 01:02:21,639
what if? What if? Though? What if? So the Chamberlains continue

964
01:02:21,639 --> 01:02:23,880
to fight for Azaria's cause of death
to be from a dingo attack not left

965
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:29,039
as unknown, and in February of
twenty twelve, a fourth inquest into Azaria's

966
01:02:29,039 --> 01:02:34,320
death was started based on new information
about dingo behavior at Fraser Island. Between

967
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,239
two thousand and one twenty eleven,
a nine year old boy was killed by

968
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:42,079
dingoes, a four year old was
severely bitten, and a three year old

969
01:02:42,119 --> 01:02:44,840
suffered a puncture wound on the leg. And if you remember from the last

970
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,760
episode, Fraser Island holds the most
quote pure dingos because they haven't hybridized with

971
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:52,239
domestic dogs as much as mainland dingos. So the nine year old boy was

972
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,280
killed in April twenty ninth, two
thousand and one, after being stalked by

973
01:02:54,280 --> 01:03:00,400
two dingoes and he had tripped and
fell near a campsite and the dingoes basically

974
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:05,039
descended upon him killed him. The
boy's younger brother and father ran to the

975
01:03:05,039 --> 01:03:07,639
scene to try to help and the
younger brother then was severely maul to the

976
01:03:07,639 --> 01:03:10,199
point that he had to be airlifted
to a hospital. Wow. But he

977
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:15,960
ultimately survived, and the two dingoes
responsible were later found and shot by police.

978
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:20,639
And this was the first fatal attack
on a human by dingo's sin Cesaria,

979
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:25,400
but there were four hundred reports of
minor dingo attacks on Fraser Island alone.

980
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,760
Wow. Also, there was a
study published in twenty eleven called the

981
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:34,280
Diet of the Dingo knes Lupis Dingo
in Northeastern Australia with comments on its conservation

982
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:38,119
implications which I will link in the
episode description, which concluded that quote these

983
01:03:38,159 --> 01:03:44,199
results suggest that dingoes prey considerably on
large to medium sized macropods in our study

984
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:49,199
area Northeastern Australia. What's a macropod
end quote like walabi's and kangaroos. Oh

985
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,239
okay. Anyways, So the point
of mentioning that study was that this study

986
01:03:53,239 --> 01:03:59,119
confirmed that dingos do eat larger animals. Obviously they knew that already, didn't

987
01:03:59,119 --> 01:04:01,679
they And like even the attacks like
the nine year old being killed, they

988
01:04:01,719 --> 01:04:05,760
already knew that the dingoes in this
area were attacking people. Yeah, they

989
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:11,320
attacked people that day in that campsite. Yeah, I think this. I

990
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,400
don't see what additional evidence this would
pro well. So the nine year old

991
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:17,679
boy died on Fraser Island, which
is different from exactly it less evidence in

992
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:21,760
that than there is of the people
being attacked that day at the same campsite.

993
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,639
Like, yes, I don't understand
how this is new evidence and why

994
01:04:25,679 --> 01:04:28,679
this matters. Yeah. So in
June of twenty twelve, the coroner in

995
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,079
charge of the final inquest announced that
she believed Zaria had died as a result

996
01:04:31,119 --> 01:04:34,920
of being attacked by Dingo and apologized
to the chamberlains for all they had endured,

997
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:41,719
and her death certificate was mended.
I still don't like it. By

998
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:45,559
this time, Michael and Lindy had
actually split up and remarried. Lindy released

999
01:04:45,559 --> 01:04:49,079
an autobiography titled Through My Eyes,
explaining that their divorce was because of issues

1000
01:04:49,119 --> 01:04:53,480
the couple had prior to Azaria's death. So Lindy currently lives with her husband

1001
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:57,320
Rick and now gives seminars and lectures
on a variety of topics. She's written

1002
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:00,320
a few books and appeared in a
documentary about the case, and there are

1003
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,679
a ton of things created from this
story, including a movie where Lindy is

1004
01:05:02,719 --> 01:05:06,639
portrayed by Meryl Streep no shit,
in a nineteen eighty eight movie called to

1005
01:05:06,639 --> 01:05:12,159
Cry in the Dark. And also
there have been plays made about this and

1006
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,199
like some really intense museum displays which
includes the family's car. Oh, no

1007
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,920
shit. Yeah. And some people
are like, oh, she's profiting off

1008
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,880
of the case. It's like,
yeah, fuck you, guys, you

1009
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:25,519
made her life terrible. Let her
profit off of her child dying in and

1010
01:05:26,679 --> 01:05:29,719
gets put through this, Like,
let them profit off it? Absolutely,

1011
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,559
Yeah. Yeah. Michael Chamberlain actually
died in twenty seventeen from a year long

1012
01:05:33,599 --> 01:05:38,960
battle with leukemia at the age of
seventy two. Oh wow. And let's

1013
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:42,760
end their story with a quote from
Lindy's twenty fifteen book, A Dingo's Got

1014
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:46,880
My Baby quote. Sometimes for hours
at a time, I would sit up

1015
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:50,320
at night just holding Azaria in my
arms and cuddling her. How glad I

1016
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:54,199
am that I did. I've got
that special time to look back on.

1017
01:05:54,639 --> 01:05:58,239
She knew she was wanted, She
loved her family, She responded to them

1018
01:05:58,239 --> 01:06:01,360
all very happily, and despite her
tender age, it was obvious that she

1019
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:05,960
knew she was loved. End quote. This whole thing is fucked. It's

1020
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,480
so sad. I like our normal
episodes where it's just hey, animal attacks

1021
01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:13,719
person, Hey goat strink people's pee. Yeah, stuff like that, Like

1022
01:06:13,719 --> 01:06:16,519
that's that's a lot better than Oh, we're gonna go into a political and

1023
01:06:17,239 --> 01:06:23,920
fucking justdicial name. Yeah, yeah, fucking stupid. So what did Australia

1024
01:06:24,039 --> 01:06:28,960
learn anything from this and change anything? Did their laws change? Well,

1025
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,920
so if any of you follow us
on Instagram in this past week, you

1026
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,840
will have seen us post a video
of a dingo biting woman on a beach,

1027
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:41,960
and that happened on Fraser Island like
this month, that happened yesterday,

1028
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:45,360
I think yep. Well, at
least an article came out yesterday saying that

1029
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:49,159
that dingo has since been put down
and another is being closely watched following a

1030
01:06:49,159 --> 01:06:54,039
string of recent attacks on adults and
children. So kind of because I mean

1031
01:06:54,079 --> 01:06:57,119
where we started was Derek was saying
to people, hey, these dingos are

1032
01:06:57,119 --> 01:06:59,719
really aggressive. Can I start like
calling them? Yeah? And the government

1033
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:03,119
was like absolutely not. And now
in Australia, from what I understand,

1034
01:07:03,159 --> 01:07:06,440
there's a big debate going on of
like should we start culling dingos And the

1035
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:10,760
government says no, you guys just
need to be more careful about wildlife,

1036
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:15,280
But people want to call the dingos, So maybe I'm yes, So people

1037
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,119
absolutely need to be more carefubout wildlife, that's true. But when you're just

1038
01:07:17,159 --> 01:07:23,320
like on a beach and you get
attacked, I think that one can probably

1039
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,880
be killed, you know, like
problem individuals. That's I feel like killing

1040
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:31,039
problem individuals different from culling like entire
populations. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

1041
01:07:31,159 --> 01:07:35,159
Well, especially because Fraser Island,
like they're a conserved population because they're

1042
01:07:35,159 --> 01:07:39,440
so pure dingo you know. So
that's a that's a tough one. But

1043
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:43,119
we'll see how that develops because that's
like really new. That's within the past

1044
01:07:43,199 --> 01:07:48,119
week. So well that is it. Well fuck those two full episodes.

1045
01:07:48,239 --> 01:07:51,400
Holy, that's two long episodes too. Yeah, oh my god, right,

1046
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:54,599
an hour and a half already,
there's a lot to cut. There's

1047
01:07:54,639 --> 01:07:56,519
a lot to cut. Yeah,
I cut a lot of the last one

1048
01:07:56,559 --> 01:07:59,199
too, but it's like an hour
fifteen I think. So. Also,

1049
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,159
I'm going to backtrack on something I
said last week. Oh fuck, oh,

1050
01:08:02,199 --> 01:08:04,960
would you mess up? I had
said we were gonna do so this

1051
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:09,599
was released a week after the previous
episode, episode fifty five. I said

1052
01:08:09,639 --> 01:08:13,280
that the next week we were gonna
have another episode. I lied, We're

1053
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,520
gonna do two weeks out. I'm
so sorry. But the reason that we're

1054
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:21,479
doing that is because I have someone
close to a recent case that I'm asking

1055
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:26,560
questions for our next episode. You
have a source, so I want to

1056
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:30,079
give us ample time to ask him
some questions and get like good knowledge of

1057
01:08:30,079 --> 01:08:32,840
what had happened so we can talk
about it to the best of our ability.

1058
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,479
Thank you so much for listening to
episode fifty six of Get Out Alive.

1059
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,560
To see information and links for the
episode, check out the episode description,

1060
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,640
or check out a website get at
a live podcast dot com where you

1061
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,159
can also get merch. Get out
a live podcast dot com slash shop.

1062
01:08:45,159 --> 01:08:48,680
We're having org Orca merch is coming. Orkam Merch is coming, Orca merch

1063
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:51,840
is coming. That was really hard
to say, but patrons are voting on

1064
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:56,279
it. We're getting it done.
It's the perfect time for it, as

1065
01:08:56,359 --> 01:09:00,399
our Orca overlords are taking over votes. I for one to welcome them.

1066
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,119
They will soon make it to land
and we're all screwed. It's only a

1067
01:09:03,119 --> 01:09:05,359
matter of time. It's only a
matter of time. If you like this

1068
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:09,279
episode, you can rate us five
stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and

1069
01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:13,079
Podchaser, and then subscribe wherever you're
listening. You can join us on Patreon,

1070
01:09:13,119 --> 01:09:15,159
where we have different tiers for different
benefits, like we talked about the

1071
01:09:15,159 --> 01:09:17,119
beginning. Patreon dot com slash Catdali
podcast. You can follow us on Instagram

1072
01:09:17,159 --> 01:09:20,600
at Canada Live Pod, follow us
on Facebook at get out a Live podcast.

1073
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:24,399
Follow us on TikTok get out a
Live. It's mostly me just at

1074
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:28,119
this point taking videos of me taking
depression walks and talk about chicks. That's

1075
01:09:28,119 --> 01:09:30,640
what ttok it has taking a turn. I don't know what's happening. And

1076
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,640
follow me on Twitter at the Angreologist. I have no souci to media.

1077
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:38,000
Do not come follow me. Thank
you so much for our intro music.

1078
01:09:38,199 --> 01:09:41,560
Josh Walsh, my second grade husband, and to his brother Jesse Walsh for

1079
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:45,239
normally editing our episodes. Right now, it's nick because Jesse and Josh are

1080
01:09:45,279 --> 01:09:47,159
on a road trip cross country,
but they'll be back. Can't wait,

1081
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:53,159
and we will be back in two
weeks for a new animal attack story. Boose