Elon. I don't think you've met Dean yet, Elon Musk meet entrepreneur Dean
Phillips, also a presidential candidate now running. I think at about twenty six
percent in New Hampshire. Elon. Dean is under the age of eighty,
he's run. He ran Belvidere Vodka. I think we might have popped a
bottle of Belvedere Laca back in the day. And he also, you know,
ran the delicious Silenty gelato company. So he's an entrepreneur, he's under
eighty, and he's a moderate, and you know he has the backing of
Bill and myself now I think in this election. So maybe your thoughts today
just on twenty twenty four DII and Mark picking Day, everything well at Friscal.
I agree with the puzsanive attribute that you listed. I think there's definitely
something if you said full of those things. And I agree with what Blackin
said about the I you know this, we really want to in order for
records be the land of opportunity, we have to be arit based society.
The moment we let go of being a merit based society, we are no
longer the land of opportunity, and that is very important to appreciate. So
out of King of this country is nothing. Actually it just ended up with
a ties student debt. And you know, I've had some success, so
you know, I think and and and this is this, This is true
of many people. And I think there's there's perhaps of sometimes I misunderstanding or
lack of appreciation that uh, when kids are born into comfort, there that
lack of adversity uh is actually a liability for them. It is not the
case that a lack of adversity makes them motivated. It tends to decrease motivation.
So the reason they had the sort of loads and peasants in most societies
and still you know some cases still have it was in order to preserve the
power of the the kids who were not as capable as their parents. So
and you know, and they wanted to have in America a place where you
could prosper and succeed based upon your merits, based upon your skills and hard
work. That's that was extremely important. So I just want to emphasize it
is not the case that want its prosperity is a path to success. I
think it is very often not a path to success. You have to say,
how many second and third generations of those who were very success well are
themselves successful. They are the exception at the normal. Yeah, I think
we've seen that first and in uh yeah, in our circles and just the
people who tend to in entrepreneurship drive results are the ones who come from a
lot of adversity and my gosh, Silicon Valley gets you know, a pretty
gets criticized a whole lot. But just watching who has run to the positions
of power, in many cases immigrants, kids of immigrants, and people who
started with nothing. I think moving on to this election, Dean, I
was wondering if you could give us an idea of what it's like to be
running in the Democratic Party and what you're seeing, you know, in the
streets of New Hampshire, what you're you're getting from the electorate in terms of
their choice and a lot of us who are lifelong Democrats actually you want most
people don't know this, I think has been a speak for himself. But
sure a lifelong Democrat, yeah, so made for I mean as fared to
be a lifelong independent, but for practical purposes I have I have for most
of my life been a Democrat. Now I do believe that one should consider
both parties, and so I sort of favorite in patis thought that that you
shouldn't just vote for a candidate because of a political party. I think you
should vote for a candidate on the merits of the candidate and be open at
least occasionally to voting for the candidate of the other party. But but yes,
it's the life of never Democrat can mean, it can mean that you
will vote for a Democrat no matter what, and that is certainly not the
case. Remain Yeah, you're but but I have objectively, you know,
voted for Democrats the vast majority of my life. Yes, And so you
know, Dean, when when you look at the feedback you're getting on the
choices people, I think overwhelmingly in America or not interested in a rematch of
that's another statement. And maybe yeah, and we're in fact looking for maybe
moderates, not lunatics on either side of the fringe, and maybe some normalcy
and competency in the White House. But you've had a heck of a time
getting on the ballots. So maybe you could talk a little bit about the
ballot issue being blocked by the Democratic Party, which we thought was hopefully going
to be incredibly democratic, and then just why you're breaking ranks and now the
most hated man in the Democratic Party for criticizing Biden running at his advance.
So you know, there's actually there's an interesting analogy here because in my business
life, my father, my partner Steve Gill, Josh hawkshul or others.
You know, we provided antidotes to duopolies. When it was vodka, it
was absolute and stolic Chnaia, and we introduced Belvedere. When it was ice
cream it was Ben and Jerry's and Hagenda's. We introduced to Lenti. And
it is the analogy of politics. We have Democrats and Republicans. And the
truth is it's great to be an independent in America until you run for office,
because the system is designed to prevent the success of independence, free thinkers,
people who might have some views on the left, some on the right.
In fact, it was George Washington that warned us in his farewell address
so long ago that he believed that the great risks of this country would be
in the development of factions, which is exactly exactly what we're facing right now.
So that is the system in which I now operate that I wish to
disrupt in the same way I did to the other categories, and to the
extent that you everybody listening, which is to join me. Doesn't matter if
you're a Democrat, a Republican, a libertarian, independent. By the way,
more independence in America than far more in fact now than Democrats and Republicans.
That's ultimately my mission, because the truth is both parties are participating in
the erosion of democracy right now. On January sixth, I will say that
it was an effort to prevent the counting of ballots. I was there in
the chamber that day. I felt it. You all watched on TV.
It was horrific. Democrats now in the state of Florida, in the state
of North Carolina have literally decided that Joe Biden won the primary. There need
not be a competition, and they will submit his name and all the delegates
to the convention in Chicago next year without even an election. Democrats have no
chance to vote. The state of New Hampshire, where I am right now,
you guys, it's even more appalling. The Democratic National Committee decided to
take one hundred and three year old extraordinary practice of democracy transfer. It to
South Carolina, and that means that any candidate on the ballot here, including
me, is not going to get any delegates, no matter how well we
do. In fact, it's so atrocious that the Democratic National Committee sent a
letter to the New Hampshire Democrats last week saying that this is a meaningless effort,
it is not an election and they should stand down, which got a
response from this State of New Hampshire. Listen to this. The State of
New Hampshire sent a cease and assist to the Democratic National Committee just days ago
for the quote unlawful suppression of voters. Now, I don't think most people
listening probably even are aware of this, but these are the truths, and
I'm on a Yeah. It's insane and it's wrong. It is just as
significant of an erosion of democracy as the effort to now one was violent in
a mob and a riot, of course, and it was horrifying, But
the behind the scenes effort to essentially disenfranchise Americans is just as dangerous. And
I'm going to make that case to you guys. I'm a proud Democrat.
I'm trying to, at least in a last ditch effort to restore the principles
of democracy through the Democratic Party. That's why I'm running. And the coronation
of a candidate, in this case Joe Biden, who is unelectable. Every
single poll is approval numbers, intuition. We all know why the coronation of
a candidate is exactly the opposite, is antithetical to what this country was founded
on. So what I'm seeing you guys, is actually joyful. I've been
campaigning around the country and it is the most beautiful, patriotic, inspiring and
reinvigoring and reinvigorating experience you could possibly imagine. If you, guys, your
families want to come along for a couple of days, I'm telling you,
anybody listening, come along. If you want to restore your faith in this
country, join me and talking to Trump supporters to far left liberals to libertarians.
It is a beautiful, remarkable experience and entertainment which I considered the evening
cable opinioned news talkers would have us believe that we're so much more divided than
we really are. And I'm pretty appalled when I hear people say shame on
you for even appearing right now with those three guys on Twitter or on Ax,
I'm sorry forgive me, Elon, don't hold me accountable for that.
Sorry, I'm sure I bet you do it once and more. Whatever you
understand, It's just I was trying. I was trying to brood in the
platform beyond the original premise of short text messages like that. So that's my
whole case is this, guys. I love conversation. I can never do
my long test exactly, So that's all. You know, Guys, what
I love about this is we need debate. We need deliberation. You know,
in business, I was taught, I was taught. I was that
if two people always agree, you only need one of them. We need
to celebrate difference. I just want to close with this, Jason. You
know, we going back to what you start and what Elon said as well.
You know, two things can be true at once. We should be
a meritocracy, but we should also ensure that everybody can participate in that meritocracy.
And I think we can all agree on that, and that's to me,
the grand solution for our country is to do just that. There has
been injustice, we can correct it, and we can correct it for everybody
so that everybody participates. What a beautiful outcome. I got to tell you,
guys, Joe Biden and Donald Trump are not going to be the guys
that can even dream about that, let alone execute it. They aren't prepared
for AI. They don't understand what is forthcoming, what we can do,
and how we can do it. And that's why I'm running. And I
got to tell you it's the most extraordinary and fun experience of my life.
And I hope people can come out and join me because it is, uh,
it's reinvigorating. So Bill Ackman, I'm curious you're a position on just
what's happening in the Democratic Party. Obviously, I think you've been a donor
and obviously you get courted by them. What is your best thinking handicapping of
what the Democratic Party is doing by not having debates and putting up a candidate
that is so unpopular and that is you know, I think you've said this,
you know has no chance of winning. And then what do you think
of this Democratic Party machine blocking the debates and blocking the balance. I think
it's an embarrassment to our country and I and I'm ashamed. And you know,
I know some very high quality people that have good relationships with tender Reschumer,
who I've enormous respect for as a good man, and I can't imagine
his being sort of part of it. I think the original premise was,
well, quote unquote, the only person who can be Donald Trump is President
Biden. So we got to stick by President Biden. And I think that
was the original logic behind putting up Biden the candidate, because they didn't see
anyone a logical person they felt that could be competitive with Trump. Now that
as Biden falls further and further behind the polls, as his health and cognitive
health, you know, sort of obviously deteriorates, I think there's got to
be great concern. But all of that being said, I think it's a
bit like we go back to the Emperor's new clothes, you know, well
the childhood book. No one wants to say the Emperor has no clothes.
And I give Dean a lot of credit for saying that, because again,
if you step out of line. Unfortunately most people in Washington, being a
politician is a career, it's a source of income, it's their business,
and they can't risk not getting re elected. Right, So if you challenge
the king, your toast and there goes your career, right, It always
comes to back to incentives. In my view, drive all human, babe.
You look at the incentives of the people. Most of the people large
in the Congress. I mean, Dean has the benefit of he's a super
talented entrepreneur. He can go right back to that anytime he wants. He's
made some money, so he's say if he doesn't need the job, and
therefore he's unfortunately one of the few people, or always say fortunately he's one
of the few people who can step into this race. But I think everyone
else is. You know, if the machines against them, there's no chance
of reelection. You know, in the Congress, you've got to get reelection.
Every coompany bills, right, you guys. I got to say,
you know one thing, another truth is that Congress is populated almost exclusively with
people that have been brought up in the political world. All they know is
a spirit of competition winning the next election. And that's why incumbency is part
of the It's almost biblical in politics. The incumbent is always recordinated. Forget
the data, forget the national mood, forget winning. It is just baked
in. So the absence of entrepreneurial spirit, and looking at this from a
different perspective is staggering. And then to Bill's other point, you know,
I have been successful, and that means nobody can buy me, nobody can
influence me. I will always make the right decision, but I won't make
that decision until I hear from all perspectives on any issue. And as the
only member of Congress, you guys, five hundred and thirty five people,
I'm the only one that takes no pack money of any kind that means corporate
or union or anything else, no special interest money. I don't take any
lobbyist money. I don't take or give money to fellow members of Congress because
that's basically just money laundering. And I don't have a leadership pack, which
is basically just a politician's slush fund, the only one out of five hundred
and thirty five people. And people wonder why policies tend to favor only the
wealthy and well connected. Well, you got the farm industry that brings three
hundred million dollars a year to Washington in the form of lobbying and in the
form of campaign contributions, literally enriching the campaigns of the very people who are
on the committees of jurisdiction for their industries. All it is is legalized corruption,
you guys. So I understand why people who support Donald Trump are angry
and they're fed up and they're nauseated, because you know what, I've been
on the inside now for five years and I am too. So I appreciate
those words from Bill and he's spot up. I want to bring up a
topic that's, you know, being discussed on x every day, videos being
shared, and it feels like it's a top it might be the top topic
of this election, which is the border. Kelan, you have to you're
an immigrant who came to this country again with nothing. I think you seem
to have done okay for yourself so far. Keep working, I mean so
false, so good. You know, yes, okay at one day and
you can make it too one day. It's America. I would say most
most of the eland's games are paper games. That's question. Yeah, but
what do you think as an entrepreneur ended immigrant elon a reasonable immigration strategy because
we have two groups that you know, on one side there seems to be
absolutely no border control. On the other side, Hey shut down the border.
What would be a reasonable approach that you ask somebody who's an immigrant and
who needs to get talented immigrants to work at space X, to work at
your companies, what would you do if they said hate Elan? You decide,
well, pray first last that I should send a very pro immigrant,
obviously being one myself. And you can just look at the you know,
old aces that have come to America and built incredible things to say like,
wow, it would be foolish if that if we had prevented them from coming,
or if they chose not to come because they've added so much value to
the team. I mean, you can think of I think the right way
to think about countries like a pro sports team. It's like, okay,
you want to get the ace players on your team, or and you suddenly
don't want to force them to fight against you on the other team. That's
crazy. And if you add, if you you add some ace players to
the team, that's going to help you win the championship and it helps the
whole team. So I'm very much a favor of a greatly expanded UH legal
immigration system because right now it is trying to get us a green card or
citizenship. Is UH a byzantine, kafka esque laborious uh and just flat out
wrong. It doesn't make it's it's an insane obstacle course to become a parent
resident and then a citizen, and and and and it's to a very small
number of people. So when you really need to first of all fix that,
and then secondly, we cannot have not really an open border, but
a border where the federal company is facilitating the transfer of vast numbers of people
into the country. And even when say Texas tries to take action to enforce
the law, the federal government is trying to stop them from doing so there's
like literally a federal laws lawsuit to stop Texas from actually enforcing the legal immigration
laws. And it's important to bear in mind that the United States is only
four to five percent of the world population, so it's very easy for the
varied states to get swamped by illegal immigration, just absolutely swamped. And you
know, if if you're somewhere else and you say, like, okay,
well they're going to give free money, housing, and medical care to illegal
immigrants, and you know, and that exceeds the standard of living in half
the world, why doesn't half the world just move here. That's certainly that
you know, as as Bill said a moment ago, instead of dry behavior.
Obviously, it'd be strange if they didn't. And so and what we're
seeing as that word is getting out so that it's getting it's going viral.
Basically, legal immigration through the southern border is going viral. This is not
a Mexico thing. Almost none of the people coming across are Mexican. Yeah,
and you saw it first, says And just so people know this is
being positioned Bill as some sort of a partisan issue. There was just a
pull that came out this month. Seventy five percent of the country, seventy
five percent of Americans view what's happening at the border as a crisis or very
serious. So I guess Bill, I'll hand it to you. You heard
you all sort of Yeah. I just want to like that people do not
just look at the graphs of the rate of growth of illegal immigration. It
is going exponential. Is it is going like it's going you know, to
use a rocket ship analogy, it is a rocketship of growth of legal immigration
because because of social media, everyone on Earth knows this and they all know
and it is now an industry from speaks for getting as Oni Lemit are all
absolutely so it's it's exactly the amount of press on it has now given it
a tipping point back when I'm curious, Bill, what your thoughts are on
this and what's reasonable? I mean, you have countries Australian, zeal And,
Canada, the Nordics say, well, are based on a points system,
right, and they have specific number targets which we don't have in this
country. And then Dan will go to you because I know you have a
reasonable position on this, so Bell and Nindian. So I totally agree with
Elon and this. And my wife's company recruits, you know, scientists all
over the world and she generally gets them because they need a very very high
standard for you know, their their backgrounds. But it's still a huge process.
But the notion that you know, like one of my colleagues at work,
uh, it was married to a woman from South America. You know,
she's you know, got two degrees, super capable, smart, you
know, makes a lot of money, and she still hasn't gotten her green
card, okay, and she's married, legitimate everything else. It's a huge
pain in the ass. And I think that speaks to it but I'd love
to take my time and turn over Dean. Actually, you know, this
is one of many I thought very thoughtful perspectives he had on a kind of
a critical issue, and I just agree. I think a very high percentage
of the country is we need a solution. But Demons Jill, lay out
what you're I appreciate it. I well, let's start with the basics.
You know, unless you are a descendant of enslaved people or indigenous Americans,
all of us have an immigrant background. My fore mothers and forefathers escaped programs
in Eastern Europe in the late nineteenth century. All of each of the four
of us have stories of immigration. It's the most beautiful part of America.
It's what made us the most remarkable country on Earth. I think we can
all agree on that our system is not just broken, it is so dysfunctional
and so poorly managed. Even with the laws we have in place and back
to management, we've not had a legitimate executive as president in a long long
time. The amount of time it takes Bill I spoke to your associate who's
facing that problem. You won't believe this, but every single member of Congress
will tell you the same thing. We are the de facto customer service departments
for every federal agency because they are not managed by managers, they're managed by
politicians. They do not understand customer service. They have no reward system for
customer service. It takes people months, sometimes years to get an IRS check
back to get their green card process. So even the law that's in place
right now, if the laws in place right now, they're not even being
well executed, which is the job of the executive. So my proposition is
this, we should lower the barriers to entry to legal immigration. We should
be welcoming, inviting, attracting, hospitable to people. Yeah, with ideas
and capital and want to be part of this extraordinary experience here and just like
you that reference to a ball team or something, elon, Yeah, we
should attract the stars, but we also need the support team, the people
taking care of the field and preparing food and helping coach, and the bat
boys and the bat girls and the whole that's the whole duty of America,
right, So we all agree on that. So here's my proposition. Yeah,
no, actually should class It's not just like attract the elitest. I
mean, I think that's the reason that if I think anyone who is like
honest, hard working, I mean i'd be fair of like if like if
they're going to have if they have high integrity, are going to work hard
and contribute to to to the economy and producers and services like that's that's that's
going to be a plus. But that we're losing a lot of that talent,
like yeah, well there's to Canada too, and people are getting educated
here, then we actually lose that talent. And and I and if I
could, if I could just continue with my proposition, because I think we
should lower the barriers to legal immigration and literally raise the barriers to illegal immigration.
It's not rocket science. And I'm a Democrat who's telling you the truth.
I've been to the southern border twice. I have seen the atrocity.
It is inexcusable. How much of this dene is because Trump said we have
to build the wall. And there Democrats are saying, I just don't want
to give Trump a win, and just that you know what, he got
something right, We have to close the southern border. Is that what happens
in meetings amongst Democrats is that they're just scared of you know this optics of
giving Trump a win on bit or you know, or is it something else.
It's very confounding the American the seventy five percent, or looking at this
saying fix it. It's a crisis. It's a big problem. Yeah,
why you guys, just I'll tell you, jakel what The first meeting I
was invited by Donald Trump to the White House was in twenty nineteen, and
it was about the border wall. And it was an experience right out of
Saturday Night Live. We had about an hour together about eight of US,
four Democrats, four Republicans, and I listened to him make his proposition because
if you remember, he he shut down the government because he didn't get the
funding for his border wall. And during this discussion in the White House situation
room, he remarked and was he was flabbergasted that Congress wouldn't go along with
just building a few hundred miles of border wall. And I actually, I
actually interrupted and I said, mister President, a few hundred miles this is
proposed as a you know, from the Pacific to the Atlantic, you know,
see the Signing Sea, kind of medieval wall. And he says,
no, it's just a few hundred and I could tell. His team immediately
interrupted him because they didn't want the truth to be known because it had been
a political proposition. We're going to build a wall now, and that's how
things work, you guys, And that's there. But there you go.
Well it's a red herring exactly. And you guys, and this is this
is the binary nature of this day and age, particularly in Washington. It's
such a joke. You're either for or against. It's either good or bad.
In this case, his proposition was a tiny portion. Yes, we
need some barriers, of course we do to prevent entry. But what he
didn't talk about is the fact that our ports of entry are so archaic,
the infrastructure so poorly designed for basically the mid twentieth century, not for human
beings and for commerce. When I was down there, I saw human beings
in cages. I saw a line of a mile long of semi trailer trucks
waiting and baking in the heat because it's so slow and arduous to get across
the border. And probably a half mile long line of people who come across
that border every day to work, to shop, to go to school.
And this is the United States of America. In the twenty first century.
It is appalling. So yes, we can at border security. We will
have border security, by the way, not just at the southern border,
but at the northern border. We are not long away, my friends,
months or maybe years from huge migration waves due to famine, due to war,
due to lack of clean water, and we should be prepared. It's
not inhumane. What we're doing now is the most inhumane. So here's my
proposition. It's the asylum policy that it is the source of this whole problem,
and it is so fixable. Elan you know this. We listen to
what the United States is doing right now. We are forcing these people who
wish to become Americans, first to save about ten thousand dollars per person,
and then to make this arduous journey across the ultimate through the Rio Grand where
people literally drown. They pay the Mexican cartels ten thousand dollars to be escorted
across, enriching them by the way, which is just nonsensical. They're processed
by border patrol agents then literally dumped in the streets of El Paso with not
a penny in their pocket, don't speak the language and cannot work. And
now become the responsibility of cities that have no money. The federal government,
including the Biden administration, not giving any support to help them. So here's
what we do. It's so simple. Change the law so that asylum cases
are actually filed in the country of origin. So let's say you're coming from
El Salvador in the Northern Triangle countries, you would file your case at an
consulate or an embassy. I believe we should build dormitories nearby, very inexpensive
to keep people safe while their applications are being processed. If they're at under
risk. When we adjudicate it locally, first, we have people there that
actually will know if it's a legitimate case. If they're approved, we escort
them to the United States. And best of all, they have ten thousand
dollars per person to start their lives here, to become owners of this economy.
They can open a restaurant, they can put a down payment on a
place to live, and we don't have to use our existing social services to
get them started. They want to work, and that's the easiest way to
fix this, And in the meantime, we're doing it completely the opposite,
and that would stem the wave, and that would stem the wave, and
we could as solve vote. But I'll tell you why it doesn't happen.
They'll wrap up with this. There's no political courage because every single person in
Washington wants to get re elected in their next election, and they know that
doing the right thing will undermine their chances because of this country that has so
separated and become so binary. And that's the answer. And it's almost as
if we're steering based on what's in the review mirror. You look at the
reason people are upset about immigration is that we had all of these jobs leaving
touring free trade, and now we are at the lowest unemployment of all of
our collective lifetimes, the four of us at least. I don't know how
old people in the audience are. We've still got almost two jobs for each
unemployed American that the unemployment rate is under four or five percent. Right now,
I want to talk about the hardest topic for a politician to talk about,
which is spending the national debt. Now we've added about twelve trillion dollars
between the last two presidents. I think it was eight. Bill Lackman,
maybe I could have you just sort of teat this up for us here,
and how concerned you are about our national debt? If you are eight billion?
I think under Trump obviously COVID you know, it was a bit of
a wildcard there, and then Biden's gone buck wild as well. I think
you put four or five maybe he's that five or six trillion on top of
that. How big of an issue is the national debt? And what's the
you know, if Bill Ackman was president, if you gave the plan to
Dean or where the advisory committee to say, how do we get to sing
under control? What would be your plan to kind of land this plan safely?
And here I think I'm going to for a Dean, I'll give you
a kind of quick view on it. I think the biggest problem that we
have now is that we have a Congress that sort of figures out want to
cost them nothing politically or otherwise to support a bill to give money to someone,
and in fact, if anything, it helps them get reelected. And
so the people politicians are spending the country's collective future. And that's what when
you're borrowing money that gets paid back in the future, you're borrowing from the
next generation, giving it to distant generation, and we don't have kind of
a culture of fiscal discipline in Washington, and unfortunately, you know, it's
we've lost people. You know, the numbers are so large, people just
sort of ignore them. In terms of thirty four trillion of debt, you
know, I think the way to look at this is, you know,
it's a bit like you can't look at debt on as stendable one basis,
you have to compare it to the quote unquote value of the country. And
the value of the country is very very high. Right. The government owns,
you know, the right to tax its citizens and tax its corporation,
so it basically owns you know, call it thirty five percent of SpaceX.
It owns thirty five percent of you know, federal government. Ever, every
person's sort of income, and they have the right to adjust that dial.
Right, So that's a very valuable asset. And plus we have enormous real
estate assets and other assets globally, et cetera. So it's an enormously valuable
country. But the trend is very very negative, and we've been you know,
it's a bit like you've been, you know, living in a world
where your cost of money was very close to zero. You accumulate a ton
of debt in that world, and now the world gets repriced at a much
higher interest rate, and all of a sudden, we're spending on interest pretty
soon, and we're spending on national defense, and that's a grave threat to
the country. And there is a moment at which the bond market, you
know, you know, we get into a bit of a death sparl.
So I think this very f prospect. I asked Ian precisely this question at
on Friday, and i'd look for the group to hear his answer. Yeah,
thank you, Bill, and everything he just said is spot on.
We have thirty three trillion dollars in debt just a couple of years ago,
mid twenty one. I think the interest on that debt was about one and
a half percent roughly. Now it's a little over three. So about one
hundred and fifty basis point change in just a couple of years. That's going
to turn out to be about if it stays, and by the way,
it might even go up, it's going to be about a four hundred billion
dollar incremental change to our debt service responsibility. And as Bill just said,
we will not just be approaching our defense budget. We are then officially spending
more on the past than we are investing in the future. There is no
money left to spend at a discretionary level in the United States. And while
our country first of all, I am pro growth, and I ultimately want
to develop policies to grow our way out of this mess, it's not going
to be easy. We have to be become more efficient as well, and
if we do so, we can actually make it happen. But in the
meantime, what no one talks about. We can accommodate a little bit more
debt. I think so, but nobody is talking about that. Debt service
to go from four hundred billion a year to about eight hundred billion a year
is a huge change and a troublesome burden for all of us. And when
I become president, I have a few propositions. First, I'm going to
have a bipartisan cabinet, not comprised of politicians, but of the best and
brightest operators and managers in America. I don't care about politics. I care
about principles, experience, and capacity to lead. I'm going to have a
youth cabinet as well. That's another story. I will employ zero based budgeting
because I've never encountered an organization, institution for profit or non that budgets in
the manner that we do by people who can't even read a P and L
or a balance sheet. We have a Pentagon budget that is approaching a trillion
dollars and they cannot passing on it. So I will engage one of the
big international consulting firms to conduct a top down assessment of every federal agency,
every program, every expenditure, and make an independent proposition to me and to
the Congress about how we can improve efficiency and delivery of service. If we
are not generating ROI on our core mission, we should eliminate it. And
if there's a private enterprise that can do so better, we will outsource it.
We have got to operate more efficiently, and then you all know,
you guys are successful men in America. We can only match reductions and expenditures
with increases in revenue if we hope to get our way out of this mess.
In addition to pro growth policies. But I don't blame people right now
for not wanting to share more because they don't believe in their government, They
don't have faith in our executive leadership and we have to do better. But
as you know, gentlemen, I propose a massive change to our healthcare system.
Not the provision of care that has to be private. But we're spending
twice as much than any nation in the world per capita. Our outcomes are
mid pack. We're the only nation in the world that has pharmaceutical pricing like
we have. We could reduce healthcare expenditures in our country and generate better outcomes
by also reducing the consumption of our GDP from about eighteen percent to about ten
percent. These are ways we can actually save money and generate better outcomes.
And yeah, I think the zero based budgeting technique something which is public now.
I think Elon you did Elon when you took over Twitter, or maybe
you could speak to the power of zero based budgeting and maybe Elon explained to
the audience what that is and why it's important. Yeah, it's pretty simple.
You really just start with nothing and build up from there, as opposed
to starting with what exists subtracting, so you know, unless something is obviously
useful and contributing to in the in the the case of Twitter X, making
the product better or running running the Silver operations. Uh, then than that
role shouldn't exist. And and then obviously to create an intesta structure where the
rate of innovation and improvement of the product is what gives people ahead and and
not have the the process for investment be obtuse or backwards. So and and
we're we've gotten more done in a year with twenty percent of the personnel than
Twitter had with hypercent personnel over five years. So you can even see in
the evolution of spaces. I mean, we unfortunately try to hold the spaces
and it just broke when we you know, just when we had the Rons
of Sciences spaces and I was I'm trying to have spaces be you know,
as non pot as them as possible. And so I'm glad that Dean Phillips
is doing this. Then you're doing it. The point is not to promote
one ideology over another, or one political group or another, but to provide
a forum where the public can listen to candidates from a wide range of view
points and make their decision regarding their vote. And I'm just against anything that
utterminds the democratic process and certainly getting candidates especially popular, you know, o
key candidates that are quite liable removed from ballots is taking that decision away from
the public, which is fundamentally anti democratic. That's insane. So and you
know, some political party shouldn't think that they know better than the public.
And I think I also took about these, you know, the lawfare.
We're using the judicial system to get Canada to all ballots. Also good let
the public make make their own decision, that's the whole. That is literally
what democracy needs. So well, yeah, it's pretty crazy. I will
say I'm disappointed being a former journalist has been a while now in twenty years,
but that the press is not covering Dean, the fact that you're being
blocked from certain ballots. I did a search on Google this this morning and
trying to find good money covering the issue. And you know, I was
talking to the best Day. I'll have him remain nameless right now, but
he basically, you know, dispected me, like, how can you block
somebody from even being on the ballot. And I'm not talking about Trump and
the in direction you know cases, I'm talking specifically about you, a Democrat,
being blocked from being on the ballot, and the press won't cover it,
but they will cover them the Trump you know, over and over again.
Soas what's going on in your press machine? Good Bill, Yeah,
if I could just jump in because I wanted to make a point on this
sort of bigger question, which I think is a really important one. So
one of the on the downside case, here's what we have to worry about.
The debt accumulations happened during one of the strongest economies we've had in you
know, generations, right, and now you're set up with an enormous amount
of debt, a huge deficit going into what could potentially be a recession.
Right. That's when now your revenues are declining, your debt is compounding,
and that's a really, really bad outcome. That's why the next president,
it's critically important that the next president of the country is a talented, successful
business leader because fundamentally, the United States is a massive business. Now it
suffers from We've seen this on a much smaller scale in everything from railroads to
restaurants to various other businesses. But a poorly run business, as you know,
tons of duplicative costs, an uninspired team, doesn't use technology effectively,
the incentives are misdesigned, and there's really no, no culture of excellence,
and fortunately that describes a lot of our government. But I've also learned that
just putting in one new person to a dysfunctional company, you can do an
incredible turnaround because that person attracts really amazing talent if you find the right one,
and then you know, you make a tremendous progress. And the appeal
to me of Dean is he's a legitimately successful business person. He gets it.
He's smart and is capable, and he spent three terms, uh and
being you know, been re elected in the Congress, understands how the government
works. You have a combination of business talent and understanding. You know,
cost control, designing incentives, you know leadership, you know, charismatic leadership,
which is necessary to achieve these goals. And also you know, how
does the system work? How do you break the quote unquote politics, how
do you fix the culture? You know, he has those elements and that's
what's made him a very you know, pealing candidate. To me, I
just want to make sure people understand what Bill's talking about in a crystal clear
fashion. There is a website for the Saint Louis fed It's called Fred and
you could just look up gross federal debt as a percentage of gross domestic product,
our debt to what we make. For the majority of our lifetimes,
it has been between a thirty and sixty percent, in other words, our
debt to what we produce every year. The last time it broke one hundred
percent, and you know right now, I think we're at about one hundred
and twenty or so was at the end of World War Two. That was
the spike. It took us in that spike, gosh, from nineteen forty
six when the war ended, forty five, forty six, all the way
to you know, the seventies, in order to work off two and a
half decades to work off that debt. We are now, to Bill's point,
in a vibrant economy at one hundred and twenty percent. This is and
the most acute issue you can think of. It's incredibly hard for politicians to
take this on. And the reason it's my number one, you know,
I understand we have culture wars going on right now. Trump is triggering people,
Biden has got cognitive issues, the border a bubble. Else if their
balance sheet is broken, this holding can come apart. And the idea that
people can get stimmy checks or unemployment. This could be kindaclismic. Yes,
absolutely. And by the way, Steve Balmer has an organization called the USA
Facts and encourage people to take a look. They present the US federal budget
in a way that anybody in business can better understand. It's really great work.
I'm not sure Joe Biden can read a P and L a balance sheet.
Donald Trump, you know, Donald Trump, through his bankruptcies, clearly
can't either. And I do think it's time that we start recognizing that these
are times where we should be reducing debt because when we face another recession or
crisis, it reduces the capacity to respond to provide the stimulus necessary to get
us out of it. I think we're all in agreement on this. It's
nonsensical. We cannot spend two trillion dollars annually more than we generate in revenue.
And as one of you guys said earlier, you know, the incentives
in Congress are so perverse. Nobody is rewarded for reducing costs or generating more
revenue. I've never had someone come to my office and say, please spend
less on my program or please raise my taxes. So we can generate more
revenue. I mean, come on, it doesn't happen for obvious reasons,
and there's no courage. The obvious question is I know to fix it.
Okay, now you're president, tell us give us the first one hundred days.
You understand the system, that you understand the broken incentives. So here
we go. I'm glad for the question. Executive leadership. The best,
the most extraordinary bipartisan cabinet in American history. We maybe we'll have a third
of them on this spaces right now, by the way, guys, and
then we go into zero based budgeting, a comprehensive assessment, attracting the best
and brightest. By the way, I can't do it alone. No individual
can do this alone. Has to attract extraordinary Americans. That's how we start.
At the executive level. I'm the second most bipartisan member of Congress,
Bill you know this. That means I work beautifully with people on both sides
of the aisle. And I will work with the Republican Party to better manage
our government. It is a focus of THEIRS. I will work with the
Republican Party on national defense and security. I will work with my fellow Democrats
on some of the issues of raising the foundation, healthcare, housing, education,
cost of food and fuel. We can actually combine the core principles of
both parties right now and do better. All of us have negotiated. You
can't take everything off the table. And by the way, you got to
put people on the plane at the takeoff if you want them there at the
landing. And I have to tell you this might surprise people listening, but
I've received an extraordinary number of thoughtful, friendly texts and calls for my Republican
colleagues in Congress saluting my effort in running for president against an established incumbent against
one's party. I cannot wait to get to work. They can't wait to
get to work. The system is suffocating and stifling the very progress we need
to make. And that's what happens when you have people in Congress in the
White House who have been there for literally fifty years, guys. So that's
how we start fixing it. Bill. But my call to action right now
for everybody listening, in fact, is to start considering. If you're a
person who's been successful, you're looking for your next endeavor. I mean it.
The elections coming up in November inauguration day is January twentieth of twenty twenty
five. We are going to need an extraordinary number of great executives, great
managers, idators, innovators, and to fundamentally change the operations of a government
that is increasingly broken because of an exodus of the very people of confidence who
have left in the last number of years. And Jason, I was going
to answer your question really quickly about being left off ballots and it's not being
reported in the news. Look at I'm staggered, you guys. One reason
I'm thrilled to do this spaces with you is to call attention to the truth
that is not being reported. It is dangerous, it is despicable. But
you ask why, because the Democratic and Republican parties are private institutions. They're
not public. They don't work for us, They're working against us. And
I'm really sick of and I'm a competitor. I want to create competition from
both the inside and the outside. I'm a proud Democrat, you guys,
but I'm a disruptor and there is a day coming where we need to ensure
that there is competition for these two parties because in the future it is only
going to get worse when you have the wrong people in the wrong positions working
against us. And by the way, you want to learn more about me,
go to my website. Oh, Jason, he's got it down dot
com. You got it were happier. I just want to say, it's
great to have everybody come on and have this important discussion. You know,
this is I think the year that the two party system really do get challenged.
I think it's it's thanks to places like x and Twitter where people can
speak freely. It's thanks to podcasts and alternative media channels. And the public
is sick of these two parties and the choices. You know, say what
you will about. You may like them be not RFK, you may like
him not. But man, we are starting to see a lot more choices,
and if we don't like the choices we have, we have to fight
h to get more choices on the ballot and data. I'm really excited that
you left, you know, being an entrepreneur and running businesses to go be
of service. We know, Jason, I'm still hey, you know what,
I'm an entrepreneur still. In fact, it's the most it's the most
important entrepreneurial mission. Of my entire life. And so to you, j
Cal, to you, Bill, to you, Elon, thank you,
and I need your help, I need your advocacy, and everybody listening,
I love you all. Let's get to it and let's shock this country in
November with the most massive change for the better we've ever ever dreamt about.
Well, thank you, thank you for coming on nex spaces, and I
think people will be break glad to hear from you directly and be surprised about
some of the negative tactics that have been used against you, which are obviously
inappropriate and underminded democratic process. And I mean to be honest, I actually
had not heard of you. Well, I sort of make we heard your
name, but I didn't know you were appalling. So I literally at that
in the last few days and just I mean again, I'm seeing such obvious
facts that there it's a miarrocable that one should even have to state them.
But the public should have the right to pick the candidates that the public once.
That's the whole essence of democracy, and you know, we should be
against anything that underlines that, whether it's a public and democrat or otherwise.
You're here. I guess if I can I'm not the campaign manager, but
I guess my suggestion would be the following. Uh, you know, Dean's
put five million dollars of his own money into his camp, Pa, I'm
contributing a million towards his pack, and I just you know, you're contributing
ten dollars, one hundred dollars or otherwise. You like what you heard,
Money actually matters. It cost a lot of money in litigation and otherwise for
him to get on ballots, and that's before kind of getting the word out.
This is one of the most capable people I've ever met. I believe.
I'm incredibly excited that he's running from president of the United States. I
think the country is really fortunate. It's taking a lot of personal risk and
attacks and all the other things things I get used to over time. But
if you like what you hear, find a way to help the guy Dean.
How can people help other than money? Hey, thank you. Treasure
is really important, but your time, your advocacy, and your invitation.
I'm going to be crisscrossing the country. I've got lots of days on the
calendar shown up in a lot of states. If you send an email to
me at Dean at Dean twenty four dot com. Believe it or not,
I actually see it, as does my team. If you want to help
us out, you want to host a gathering to introduce me, you want
to write postcards, you want to do some door knocking, tell your friends,
tell your family to vote in primaries. If I could just make one
final call to action, guys, the reason we've handed over the keys to
the furthest Right and the furthest Left is because the parties don't want you to
vote in primary elections. They want to coordinate a candidate and then force that
choice upon you. So please register to vote in your primaries, and then
let me know if you want me to come to your town and do a
rally, do a fundraiser, do a meet and greet, and help us
out. You guys, it's all up to us, the powers in everyone's
hands. Still, let's keep it that way. And exactly what Elon said.
The minute they start taking names off ballots, suppressing you, refusing to
debate, we are in big trouble. But it's not too late. So
thanks Bill, thanks for the shout out, and to all you guys,
I think the world of view. And one more thing. If I may
be rude to interrupt one second, Dean, one of the other things.
For people to support you, they have to believe there's a credible path for
you to be president. I think you make a very well you made a
very credible case which convinced me. Once you go ahead and just chhare people
shortly. Thanks Bill. So here it is guys. You know I'm an
under and I love it, and that's why we're going to succeed. We're
scrappy, we're efficient, We're using twenty first century technologies to do better.
It starts in New Hampshire. January twenty third, just about eight days from
now, is the first primary election in the country. And if we surprise
that night, it's game on. And if any of you listening have friends
here, have family, want to spread the words somehow in New Hampshire to
get people to come out and vote in the primary for me, mark my
words, that will be the igniter for the whole campaign. Either way,
I will be continuing, and my mission is to get to this summer June
July, before the convention in Chicago, to a point where the country knows
me. I got a lot of work to do to introduce myself. When
they do, I almost I can almost guarantee that the polls will continue to
show Joe Biden losing to both Donald Trump and probably any other competitor, and
also will show me probably beating Donald Trump and other competitors. And when that
happens, Democrats will have a very choice. Do we coordinate an unelectable candidate
or do we get behind someone who can't just win but can actually achieve reasonable,
common sense solutions and actually get this country to be excited and joyful and
optimistic. Again. That's my mission. Bill and all of you listening would
love to have you join the Dean team because we can do it. We
absolutely can do it, and I'm not going to give up. And today's
a great day. Thank you all very much. Thanks so much Elon Bell
for joining us, and Dean, we thank you for running and your public
service and commitment to helping solve America's problems in a reasonable fashion. We wish
you the best. Everybody. Go to Dean twenty four dot com if you
want to give a donation if you have the means to do so. If
not, yeah, just tell your friends, maybe tweet about it, X
about it, post about it on X. I'm catching up. In fact,
i'm catching up to Elon. I've got forty thousand followers on X and
you're only at one hundred and sixty nine million Elon. So I'm catching up
fast, catching up fast. Yeah, closing, closing fast. Thanks everybody.
That's good, all right, Thank you, Thanks for cheers. Like
and subscribe if you haven't yet, and I will see you in tomorrow's episode.
Thank you so much for watching.