Coming up this week on the Mark Cast, Well, the alternative football landscape
is kind of like being stranded on the desert island, lack of supplies or
in factions, you name it. But when the XFL and the USFL are
coming together with the intent to merge with the new presumed United Football League,
is this the last grass for the current state of alternative football? Without the
XFL and the USFL working together, will they die alone? To your inner
Jack Shepherd, it's time to go back to the island. But if we
can't live together, we're going to die alone. Great show this week,
joined by a longtime friend of the podcast, USFL and alternative football historian Paul
Reese. We are talking the newly acquired United Football League trademark from the XFL,
as well as getting Paul Stotts on the current landscape of alternative football with
the impending merger. I think that this is the attempt for probably a decade
that if this doesn't work, that it will be very difficult to have real
money jump back into this and fun and alternative league. So yeah, absolutely
that this probably needs to work or it's just not going to work for a
while. Then lots of CFL stuff to talk about this week. Jamie Nye
of The Green Zone up in Saskatchewan joining us talking the Riders lose in the
CFL twenty twenty three season, as well as sharing his thoughts on everything CFL
Week twenty. They're done. They're done with this team. They're done with
the coaching staff, They're done with the general manager. They're done done.
Some people want don't even want them to make the playoffs. That's how done
they are with Then, this is the second straight year. It's absolutely Groundhog's
Day for the Rough Riders to go six and five and then lose seventh straight
last year and now could lose seven straight this year if they lose to the
Toronto Argonauts on Saturday. And then Gord Randall of Crown grid Iron Nation joining
us again. We're talking to America's CFL t the BC Lions, the entire
CFL WES Division playoff matchups and more. I question whether Chris Jones is going
to be able to put it all together because so far, as a head
coach he hasn't. As a coordinator he has. As a head coach he
has not. And so that's where I wonder about things because his tenure as
a head coach, whether in Saskatchewan or here in Edmonton, has been marred
by questionable personnel decisions, has been marred by at times controversy. It hasn't
been great and I just don't know if he's the guy to get that job
done. Should be a good one. Lack and subscribe. Hey guys,
we's goo to the marcass read here. Not too many years ago, Lost
was literally the biggest thing in the history of the world. Really seemed to
fall off. I can't figure out a bigger drop off from season finale till
now Game of Thrones or loss. But we are talking staying together, living
together, not dying alone. Today. Jack Sheppard, Matthew Fox, star
of that program a big part of my life going through college, are always
happy to get a throwback with that today. Lots of stuff to get into.
We'll keep this short. Talking with Paul Reese, like I said,
with our Sport Central Paul knowable USFL historian altern to the football historian, wanted
to get Paul's thoughts on kind of the new trademarks next week with the UFL.
Does he think you we're bringing teams from the UFL, which we're not
but getting Paul's thoughts on that with his he make of the XFL and USFL
wanting to work together to merge. Lots of good stuff with Paul and then
a double trouble CFL guests this week with Jamie and I. I appreciate him
taking time after work up in Saskatchewan and then gorg Randall making time during work.
Really appreciate that talking CFL Week twenty and getting into a lot more of
the playoff stuff, off season stuff. Lots to get into there. A
little bit of a sleepy weekend with the three games, but I should be
exciting nonetheless, So hope you guys enjoy I think that will do it for
me today. We will see you at the end. Thanks as always,
Like and subscribe, well, I appreciate it back here, trying to remember
the last time we had Paul reeson. We've had a lot of new subscribers
joined just kind of during all of this, you know, shenanigans with the
United Football League, National String Football League kind of merger stuff. Paul is
our resident USFL historian, all football historian, runs our sports Central, written
a book about the USFL. Anything else that's kind of set the context because
I think your unique guest to get on here to talk about this stuff.
If so, for those who aren't familiar with our Sports Central, we cover
minor league sports essentially, so everything below the big four professional sports leagues,
and so over the years we've kept an eye on all the xfls and the
new USFL United Football League all those, so those have all and in our
purview over the years. So you know, we've gone through a lot of
this, and obviously we've shared our qualms about the USFL and everything. What
did you know and the XFL to that regard, but what like when you
heard all this, you know, XFL reaching out, USFL merging together here,
intent to merge, what did you what did you make of that?
Here after the first season of the XFL. It's kind of funny. I
kind of flashed back to a conversation that we had had earlier before the XFL
season started in and how much I remember having to pull the reins back on
don't talk about merger, don't talk about potential merger, because I think so
many of us had that kind of out in the distance. We thought,
you know, eventually, this is the way that this is almost going to
have to go. It doesn't It doesn't make a lot of sense for these
leaks to be competing against each other for not the largest audience out there.
So no surprise at all that it happened. You know, these things tend
to be quiet until there's actually a lot of force behind what's going on,
and that's exactly what we saw happen. Were you surprised that happened so quickly
in terms of you know, the Forbes report comes out, XFL losing money,
Darryl Johnston coming out saying we were disappointed with everything season two. I
mean because to me, this, you know, the quickness of this doesn't
speak to both of these leagues. We're tremendously excited with how you know,
season two of the USFL, Season one of the XFL turned out, you
know, and I looked at that Forbes report a lot differently than a lot
of other people. Did you know, when I saw sixty million dollars in
losses, I thought, oh, my goodness, you know, I really
thought it was going to be one hundred million, you know, for them
to have done that, well, I was a little bit surprised. We
saw the erosion of the USFL's TV rating so I was not, you know,
particularly surprised to see that they were looking for a different answer, you
know, And we'll see how much the XFL actually contributed to that, or
if the USFL had picked up a lot of initial interest just based on curiosity
and that wasn't necessarily there in year two anymore. You know, the USFL,
I think they put together a better TV product in year two because they
had a few more crowds, and yet that didn't translate in the ratings,
which is what's really important to Fox. So they, you know, they
you know, we'll see what they do as far as the merger, and
I do hope that we see kind of the best of both worlds, so
the best that each league has to offer. I guess I would love to
be a fly on the wall here in some of these rooms with these executives
of like, what were your expectations going in? What did you think?
Because and I told this story before on here. I remember the first time
Paul and I XFL, you know, episode one, We're I'm like,
we're gonna put this on YouTube. Man, We're gonna like all these people
are gonna be watching, and You're like, it's not you know, and
I try to talk to people now and they're like, well, okay,
like what do you do. I'm like, well, you know, it's
like it's really niche and like we're really good in our space, but it's
it's such a minute thing, and I'm just curious, like because I've heard
people talk, you know XFL ticket people, you know, pre all this
stuff like oh, yeah, we're going to be a top five, six
seven league here in terms of selling tickets, and you're like, what's like,
what's realistic? Do you Does it strike you that maybe Redbird got a
little bit of cold feet here and that's why we're moving in this direction.
I honestly did not really believe that Redbird was in it for the long haul.
I think that they flip and so they saw an opportunity they reached out.
I'd had somebody who is familiar with with both organizations, both Redbird and
Fox, and he had told me months ago you better believe he's reached out
already to Fox. So it wasn't particularly surprising to me that that was you
know, Redbird is it was bankrolling the XFL you know, the Rock and
Danny Garcia had you know, huge management roles to play and so that you
know, they did a lot of the day to day things, but Redbird
was the money behind the league, and so really it was going to go
as far as Redbird was willing to go. And I think as soon as
they saw an opportunity to to turn this around to maybe make a little bit
of money or possibly even just stem the losses, maybe they didn't see an
end to the losses as quickly as they had hoped that they took it.
I want to get well, we're rehashing a little bit of the conversations we've
had the last couple of weeks soon as I want to get your take on
it, and then obviously we'll transition here in the kind of the the trade
marks and just kind of the you're like repeating history. It is all this,
But you know, we've had conversations the last couple of weeks about dragging
the audience outright asking them for a lot of patients here you've you know,
followed all of these and you know the xfl oh one twenty twenty, Like
it feels to me like, okay, we're just handing this off now,
like we're kind of done with this, moving this on in terms of the
all football fan like, how strenuous is this to kind of live through this
this world like that this is this is what we signed up for it.
We've done this before, you know, and I look back at you know,
when the USFL was folding. You know, they have this lawsuit going
on. Okay, we have a lot of hopes on a lawsuit. We
have a fall season scheduled, and you know, all of it was you
know, all of it ended up deteriorating. And we've seen XFL they get
out of that first year. The TV ratings were relatively horrible in two thousand
and one, but everything else is ready to go. We're ready to go.
We're ready to go with our cable partners. And all of a sudden,
NBC pulls the plug League's dead. Uh, and the NFL Europe the
World League, you know, two years in the US it's dead. Uh.
Then the World League, which switch commissioners, it's dead. So you
know, we've seen this. It seems to be a never ending list of
things that will kill these leagues or at least, you know, fundamentally change
them. It's part of the deal we've we've talked on here in the theme
of the episode this week is kind of die die apart, or it's from
loss, it's lived lived together, die apart or whatever. And we've talked
on here, you know, at this time where we had two competing leagues,
right, this is kind of the the greatest chance, right for any
of these to work where you have Fox owning all this, doing all that
and read like we've talked all the money. Uh, now them are already
coming together. Like is this kind of the last frontier or for this time
period where and like if this doesn't work, is there any circumstance you can
see where this is actually pans out in the future. You know, it's
going to be a while. I think that this is the attempt, you
know, for probably a decade that if this doesn't work, that it will
be very difficult to have real money jump back into this and fun and alternative
leak. So yeah, absolutely that this probably needs to work or it's just
not going to work for a while. And you would have to look at
some fundamental changes probably in the media landscape and how they're able to monetize viewers
behind a television or a screen somewhere. So you'll have to see some continued
evolution of how they're able to monetize that because to me, here if you're
an outsider looking at this, and you know, like I said, Fox
is set up for this, it's you know, filler content. They're able
to write off a lot of the things like we're the ultimate goal of these
We even had been Fisher reporting even last week, like the goal is still
to sell these franchises off, right, And I think three to four years
now it was originally seven years. Like if I'm sitting there like, why
would I ever Like you guys can't even get through a season two see like
you're you know this is a huge next step, well and you're the I
think what makes it particularly challenging from an investment perspective is that as an investor,
what kind of say, what kind of input are you going to have?
You're always going to be out voted by Fox, So what exactly what
is your what is your control? What is your influence? Otherwise you're just
giving money away in an obvious attempt to look like a local big shot and
that's really the only thing that's going to be on the line there. So
I think it's hard sell unless you're willing to give up some control. It
feels very much like the CFL in that regard of like, hey, I
own a sports team, I'm going to own it for fifteen twenty years until
I get tired of it or to the five whatever, you know, and
then kind of pass it on. I just all of this, I don't
know is this giving you? And I know, like you said, we
live through all this, and you live through this longer than any of us
probably listening to the program here, But does this give you pause? Like
maybe this isn't the right space for these leagues to try to operate, Like
maybe there does need to be kind of change here. Yeah, And you
know, it's such a weird thing is that we were kind of blessed with
two leagues and all these games going on and year around football for a year,
and you do wonder if there was a way for these parties to come
together at the very beginning and come into this past season with all of their
resources dedicated to one project, if you know, maybe we'd be in a
better spot. So, you know, I'm kind of the eternal optimist here
where it's like, Okay, well maybe this could still work in some way.
You know, if the if the chips fall correctly. So you know,
I don't know that. I think there'll be somebody else who takes a
flyer on it in the future if this doesn't work out. And you know,
I don't want to sound too fatalistic. We don't know if it'll work
out or not. You know, certainly it's an uphill climb. Not all
the details have been worked out or at least announced yet, so you know,
there's a lot that we have to see and maybe we'll come out in
the next few weeks and we'll say, well, this does look a lot
better. You know, they are leveraging their strengths. We'll see because we've
really tried to avoid on here like Okay, it's going to be this or
that, you know, because there's a million different kind of Okay, it's
going to be the XFL conference and the whatever. But whatever happens, you
know, the idea of having you know, a sixteen team, you know,
a combination of resources here and everyone in their market seems you know,
far from whatever this is actually going to look like. Do you sense you
know, for the fan base is to me. To me, it's probably
eight to two people you know negative about it. The positive of Okay,
this is a step back no matter what, or I hey, I have
a team in Seattle. I don't know, Like, how are you viewing
kind of this edition by subtraction moving forward with whatever the look like. Well,
I think you have to look at it from the perspective of both leagues.
So I mean, obviously we've already talked about Redbird Capital and whether it
be kind of an opportunity they saw or cold feet. It doesn't look like
they were in it for the long haul. So the XFL, what's going
to be out of options sooner rather than later. You look at the USFL,
there's only there's only one reason that they even listen to the XFL,
And I'll let the audience figure that out. You can believe what's been said
online, you can believe the corporate talk, or you can look at what's
actually happening. They listened to the XFL, why all right? So they
need something and so it's an opportunity for them to work together. I think
that this was probably the path forward. You know from day one that this
was almost inevitable. Now it's just a lot of push and pull and we'll
see which which business plan they're going to pursue or if it's a mix or
you know, I think that both teams brought some things to the table,
and I'm hoping that they are able to pick out the best of the bunch.
I mean, and we've talked many times in the past that we like
seeing football in front of crowds. It just brings an extra element to the
game and to the to the entertainment value of the television product. And so,
you know, I think that the thing that gives most XFL fans pauses
talk about continued hubs and games in front of next to nobody. And I
guess to a degree, I don't understand the love affair with at Ohio.
It's a great stadium, it's but it's not a big market, so you're
only going to have a handful of thousand people there at best. Uh,
it's cheap. Okay, well, so it was a local high school field
here. Why aren't we playing there? You know? There, I'm really
hopeful that they will pick out the best, you know, no matter who
ends up having control of this product. Yeah, and I've heard mixed you
know stuff coming from you know, inside the league, outside of the league.
Okay, Well, no that you know, you can look and see
like there are things that we're doing better, things that they're doing better.
I mean, I I think there's an ideal world where that works. I
guess to me, it's just you know, and you're an entrepreneur, right,
I'm like that there there has to be some level of risk associated with
starting one of these, right, And and to me, you know,
like I took out a loan when I started my video company and bought cameras
and everything like, and you've lived through the history of this right numerous umerous
times, and this you know, people jumping in I guess, not understanding
the risk and understanding the costs. I mean, Vince McMahon was bleeding money
back in twenty twenty, you know, even before COVID and everything like.
Does it surprise you that this like we're so willing to jump in and maybe
not even realize what the risk that we have with these leagues. To me,
that's the heartening thing is that we see people people of substance, corporations
of substance who are jumping into this this this weird alternative pro football universe.
When when people like Redbird Capital on Fox even make the attempt, there's something
that they see, They see that potential, they see the value of building
an asset. And in Fox's circumstance, you can see, you know,
how ESPN is struggling with its rights fees payments, just like every broadcaster is.
They're selling out billions of dollars in rights fees. Well, Fox looks
at them and says, well, if we can develop our own thing,
our own thing can draw ratings and we never have to shell out rights fees
for it, we have an incredible cash cow. And so you know,
there was this feeling that, you know, Fox could be playing the long
game here that they see that potential. What's kind of been a hitch in
their plan is we saw real decline in year two in the places that matter,
and in particular the television ratings for Fox. This is a television program
and television programs get canceled all the time, and we see that. We
saw that happen with the first XFL and it can happen out of the blue.
So you know, they've they've got to do something different and they've got
to show some growth in year three. I guess I just wish that any
of these and I don't even know you know the XFL and they're the wordy
behind their branding I think was more than this. But to me, a
lot of these boil down to one hundred million people watch NFL football or whatever
the number is. If we can get five percent of that, ten percent
of that, like this is great and not really I guess understanding the other
work that needs to go into that. And you know, I've said on
here like the USFL feels lazy to me. It feels like you like football
here is more football and not necessarily understanding maybe you know why these fan bases
have people that care about them and that you can't just Okay, Tampa didn't
work this year, we're going to shut that down and we're going to bring
it back later, or like with the XFL, well, Vegas didn't work,
we're gonna like you still had six thousand people there every week. Like
I mean, at some point it needs to matter. It can't just be
all about dollars and cents, right, And you know, you look back
at the early years of the American Football League in the nineteen sixties, and
if you go back and look at the Oakland Raiders attendances the first couple of
years there were three thousand people in that place and so and behind the scenes,
they had no money. They were being bank by the other teams,
and they weren't the only ones. What's missing, I think is that that
unity of purpose that for instance, the American Football League owners had when one
stumbles, there was another one there to pick them up. And so you
know, we are missing that and that's I think a huge missing piece in
the spring football landscape. Its just I was just listening to First Take yesterday
and they had on Adam Silver, right, the NBA commissioner, and he's
talking, I guess there's I'm not the biggest NBA fan, but they're starting
a new in season tournament to kind of try to build out interest before the
All Star break and all that, and you know he's talking, well,
we got to do this. You can't just do the one one year of
this and then hey it's getting maud. You you got to build this year
and year and year and year and year the kind of give value there,
And it doesn't feel like any of these alt leagues are at that point where
hey, you have to come you got to come back. And it's hard
because you know, the NBA has the luxury of time. They could do
this for five years and really not impact the bottom line at all. All
of these leagues, these all spring football leagues. They could lose hundreds and
hundreds of millions of dollars in that time. It's a different deal because they
have so much riding on this, and because it's so expensive, they don't
have the revenue source of the NBA. And we were just talking about if
these leagues look at it as if we can even draw this tiny minuscule percentage
of the NFL audience will be okay. To degree you really have to say
the NFL is irrelevant to these guys. What you have to do is you
have to be in there and you have to compete against the NBA. You
have to compete against the NHL, you have to compete against March Madness,
you get into early season baseball depending on how let you go. So those
are what you have to compete against, in addition to all the local stuff.
So you know it, it's difficult in terms of a kind of transitioning
here to the trademark stuff and we'll get out of here. You know,
the obviously the NSFL stuff was trademarked. You know, which is funny,
right, Like I was the holding company and we kind of lived through all
this and then now obviously this week the XFL registering the United Football League trademarks.
Are you, first off, are you surprised that having us even gone
through all of these USFL lawsuits and everything that, you know, covering all
of this the last couple of years, for the new USFL to acquire all
that XFL obviously pain to bring the you know that stuff out of the bankruptcy,
Like, are you surprised that they would so willingly just okay, we're
going to brand this into something new. I am a little bit surprised because
of the efforts that they have put into attaining, you know, making peace
with the original USFL guys. Uh for you, they've really gone to a
lot of lengths to acquire and and and utilize this. They've leaned in the
history now, especially in year two, they were able to do that more.
Uh. Part of me, I wonder if they've seen that the demographics
have skewed a little bit older and that they kind of want to get away
from that a little bit. So, Yeah, it has been a little
bit surprising to me because I mean, it really derailed all of season one
and kind of I think the goal that they wanted to do dealing with these
lawsuits coming in this year. It didn't do a lot for me. But
again, I'm not the I'm not the demo for that, but it does
just you know, the time and energy and money, like you said,
and even even whatever that settlement was, it just seems weird that they would,
especially for the USFL, like I get Fox and okay, Danny and
the Rock, like we bought this thing out. Okay. To me,
it felt like Fox was so controlling kind of of this ip and and and
steam rolled so much of that that they would give that up just as very
shocking. Oh yes, and there, I mean there's still things going on
where they're trying to peck that ip. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah,
And that's that's why it's a little bit surprising that they would change the name.
Perhaps that was the most palatable solution for their new partners potentially, or
they just see a value in being able to build off a different brand,
perhaps in terms of the UFL trademarks, what what you know, what is
the history of that. I know that the was it the National grid Iron
League. They were kind of a scammy league. They they I think,
still have an outstanding trademark, but that to me isn't the bigger issue.
But to me, the MSFL was never going to work because the NFL exists,
and that's not public that they've said anything, but I can imagine.
And Josh Gerban, who had the report about the UFL, basically said as
much, what are your thoughts of them? Is this just these are three
initials that we could get control of, or like, what do you what
do you make of this? We just talked about the USFL and the history
there and the length that Fox went through to gain control of that ip.
This is a different deal that This is just I believe it's just a name.
There's no there isn't any good feelings that exist about the old United Football
League. It was such a flash in the Pan League and even even alternative
football fans had a hard time finding it. So it does seem like it's
just a name. It's kind of close to the last name, which is
advantageous. They could do something different with it, and it really does reflect
kind of a union with the XFL, So it's a good name from that
perspective. But as far as the history of it goes, there's really nothing
that I believe that Fox would or would want to lean into there. Do
you think that there's enough scammy stuff in the past or enough failure there associated
with the more said that people are going through? So what is this?
Nine to twelve was the last iteration this was played right right, and that
was that it was such a weird league that it was. It was owned
principally by a guy named Bill Hambrick, and he had been a minority owner
of the Oakland Invaders of the USFL years before, made like a billion dollars
in Silicon Valley, but he never funded this league. So it was perpetually
playing what looked like a test season for some reason, never had more than
five teams in a year, played parts of four different seasons, and just
stumbled throughout. The last two seasons were abbreviated. They ended up canceling the
final weeks, holding impromptu championships. They had to get on and they had
to beg the players to finish out another week of the twenty twelve season,
and then ended up stiffing them all. Dennis Green, the former NFL coach,
had a lawsuit outstanding for you know, not receiving his pay, and
it was guy after guy after guy, and there were it was substantial money
that could have back the league, but it was just never really funded.
They seem to have been banking on an NFL workstoppage and that they would get
a TV contract out of that deal and somehow hold on to the TV contract
after the NFL rezoom playing and they would split this huge TV contract amongst their
four teams or something. I don't really understand what they were thinking, but
if you're playing in the fall on Wednesday and Friday nights on obscure table channels,
you're probably resigning yourself to anonymity. And that's exactly what they did.
And just to clarify here, and you can clarify as well. You know,
I've seen a lot of people like, oh, does that mean they've
acquired all the marks or they've acquired all the teams. I mean they've registered
the UFL trademark, the United Football League trademark for a various number of you
know, never mediums, right like entertainment and clothing and streaming and kind of
all those different things. But in terms of there's no other teams or anything
that they're acquiring through all this, No, and I wouldn't see the value
in doing so. They had some kind of flash in the pan, short
term success stories in Omaha and Sacramento, maybe Hartford and Virginia Beach to some
small degree, but really, at the end of the day, there that
IP is probably not worth anything. It's funny you're talking here about the obscure
TV network. Hey, it's CBS Sports Network. Man, that's that's the
CFLs And that was a huge step up for the UFL. They were on
well, you know, they were on HD net and they were so and
you had to find You had to hunt on a Wednesday or a Friday night
to find these guys. And you know, especially the first year, they
had this brilliant idea where every team, all four would wear the league colors.
So you had you had this black, blue, and green. Everybody
was those colors, so you had to really look at the helmet to even
figure out who was playing. And the crowd was no help because they were
minuscule crowds everywhere, and they ended up switching venues to try to make it
look better and that that didn't work at all. So it was it was
a bizarre kind of circus atmosphere last thing for me and just you know,
obviously there's no connection here now more than just kind of ironic. I guess
that Vince vincick Man, right when he was going to do the twenty twenty
version, had mulled around right with this last to own the trademarks for that.
Am I understanding that right back in twenty eighteen before he settled on the
XFL. That was my understanding too, that he had looked at the United
Football League as a name for his league. You know, what's the old
is new again and it's it's weird how time is a flat circle with all
of this stuff and whatever, some of the things that they've gotten the equation
figured out, it seems to come back again. And there was a there
was a prior United Football League in the early sixties sixty one to sixty four,
which was really more of a minor kind of semi pro outfit. So
that these names have a way of being recycled a little over and over anything
else here. How are you just optimistic moving forward? How are you feeling
one to ten here? So optimistic might be a little bit of a stretch,
but you know, kind of and probably just you know, with so
many fans just waiting to see, kind of hoping that that the league will
actually strengthen itself, hoping that a lot of the markets get preserved, that
where there has been some home games played, that you know, we're able
to preserve as many of those markets as possible. That would be the ideal
thing. Interesting times here, Always something new, just when you know,
I was kind of getting moored a little bit of all this and like man,
just when I think I'm out, they pulled me back in and we
got new, a new drama here. So Paul, I appreciate it.
Like I said, with our Sports Central everything else, USFL historian and all
all football history here at this point, really appreciate your time. Thank you
for having me on read Good to see you again. Well we have Jamie
and I back on here from the Green Zone. I was gonna we're talking
CFL football here, I will say, uh, cracking off to not a
good start this season. And our boy Regina Zone, Jordan every really let
me down here, at least Saskatchewan Zone, so very upset over the weekend.
He missed his shootout shot. Yeah, he's a Regina guy. Ebbs
former Regina pat did, was he is he fighting? Now? What is
happening with Jordan Everly? He's getting in the fist of cuffs going on,
And we were about two minutes into the game. Yeah he was because we
don't like mccarr because he checked McCann back in the playoffs. But yeah,
every was going. They said he had some past history. I think they
played together him and the guy he was fighting. But at least Connor Bdard
is not the bus. He's putting in goals for the Chicago Blackhawks, so
that's good. Yeah, oh yeah he is. And it's not like you
have a lack of discussion about Connor Bdard in the National Hockey League either.
It's also you can't avoid it. He is. He's the guy right now
in the NHL. Uh, check him out when the Blackhawks are in Seattle,
check him out. Obviously. I did see his teammate was like,
I think we're kind of overdoing this a little bit. I feel like that
today perusing Twitter with Nathan Urk being elevated, you know, to the active
roster, I'm like, oh my god, oh my god, it's like
it's happening. It's happening. Here we go. Wait, his thoughts here?
So we're here. I'm really curious because obviously you're really checked in,
you know, tuned into the Sascatchran market and everything, like what is Ryder
Nation? Whether are their thoughts this year? Because it's been a weird season
for the Riders. They're done. They're done with this team. They're done
with the coaching staff, They're done with the general manager. They're done.
They're done. Some people want don't even want him to make the playoffs,
that's how done they are with Then this is the second straight year. It's
absolutely Groundhog's day for the rough Riders to go six and five and then lose
seventh straight last year and now could lose seven straight this year if they lose
to the Toronto Argonauts on Saturday. So it is a lot of frustration over
where the direction of this team has gone. So I'm looking here. I
have the playoff scenario, Calgary wins and Saskatchewan loses. Calgary's in Saskatchewan wins,
Calgary loses. Calgary's playing BC and you know, I mean BC has
been known to kind of drop. You know, I've had my fair share
of frustrating moments here, but that's a weird spot where they don't even want
to make the playoffs because I do think you need some sense of accountability here
after everything that's gone down. No, yeah, that's exactly what That's what
people are waiting for, is pretty much the changes to happen. What's going
to happen, when's it going to happen? To just move on with what
we're calling like the stink the rot of this, just to go, okay,
let's move on now. Of course, there's always the chance that you
never know, if someone catches lightning in a bottle and they have an unbelievable,
unpredictable playoff run. But there's no way this team's going into BC and
going into Winnipeg and winning football games. I just don't see much of it.
Just maybe one, but not twice. So yeah, in terms of
kind of where all this you know, because obviously the Trevor Harris and everything,
I mean, is it all go back to now or they're further deeper
issues here going the end of the season. It's clearly deeper than just losing
your quarterback. Because last year they had a quarterback, they lost seventh straight
and it was you go, are they quitting on the coach or they I
don't know, maybe they Okay, let's see what happens when they get rid
of A. C. Leonard and some of the bad boys. I'm trying
to remember the term Craig. Craig Dickinson actually had a term he renegades or
something like that on the team last year. So they like ac Les gone
and Mike Adams no longer here, and of course the Garrett Marino thing.
He's out to Duke Williams by Shaq Evans, he's out Cody Fajardo, Jason
Moss. So they do this change over and you're thinking, Okay, that's
where they put the blame the coaching staff. Everybody went, it's that's the
problem. It'll be better. They're worse. They are a worse football team
than they were last year. And some of that is the quarterback. But
I think it's preparation, it's emotion, it's a lot of different things that
has soured the Saskatchewan rough Riders. Side note, what do you make of
Cody's season in Montreal? I mean, I know he was hurt, and
I mean they're still and they seem like they were hot. Now they're kind
of you know, at least cleaned to second there, But were you pleasantly
surprised or what did you make? I think Cody Fajar, I think Jason
Moss has done a pretty darn good job to have that team play to the
strengths of an offense led by Cody Fajardo. They are this second lowest team
and offensive touchdowns. Like, it's not like Cody Fajardo has led this team
to second place. Cody Fajardo has been part of a team that has led
them to second place. But I think it's more Jason Moss and Noel Thorpe
have done a pretty darn good job on finding what they're good at, finding
how to win football games, and that's what has had Montreal. But I
think Cody Fajardo definitely and Jason mosk Can definitely, you know, flex a
little bit saying yeah, where you were the scapegoats in Saskatchewan, there were
deeper problems and you got what you got for Saskatchewan. I mean not to
have it be a deep dive much for all podcasts here, but like this
really could have been a wasted season for them, which is everything and the
ownership coming in and all the changes I mean it's really remarkable here that.
I mean they were second last year in the East, second this year and
you know they have one game away from potentially getting to the finals there.
I mean, it could have been a lot worse for them as well if
you look at Saskatchewan. Yeah, I was looking at Montreal as potentially being
third or fourth in the East Division, Like when you looked at it on
paper, they lost a lot of talent out of that team, A lot
of guys left, So that's what I was maybe looking at. But again,
Nolthorpe's defense has been outstanding, Cody has managed the games very well,
and now that they're starting to find a little bit of identity on the ground
game with like Fletcher and when standback's healthy, that could be a dangerous team
if they can run the ball with that core three with Cody also using his
legs come playoff time. Although beating Toronto is not going to be easy in
terms of Saskatchewan here, like you said, you know, people want the
wholesale changes. Farhan was on last week and like, there's right, there's
not all the contracts end the same rider. They're overlapping where they're like it
makes it challenging to kind of bring in fresh I'd made me next shrug,
What do you I mean? I know people are asking for people's heads and
everything else, but like, what is realistically possible there? I think it
is general Well, Jeremy O Day is interesting. I'm not sure the whole
coaching staff could be gassed, like it's just go get done just away.
You're fired by a lot of them. I think all of them are on
the last year of their deals, so you can get rid of those contracts.
Well, Craig Dickinson's the biggest one. He's up at the end of
the year. Jeremi O Day is up at the end of the year.
If you want to go to the general manager spot. A lot of the
attention is actually on the president, Craig Dickenson or Craig Reynolds, on how
far up it goes and does he take anything? Do they change the president?
Because when Jim Hobson was here, that was, you know, a
decade of brilliance. They made it to a bunch of great cups four gray
cups sorry one two lost to in pretty well ten years of Jim Hopps,
and then since that time they haven't made a great Cup. They have hosted
some playoff games, but it has been all over the place on good bad
uh. And there's some fans who feel they're they're saying they feel taken for
granted, that's never a good thing, and they're they're talking about turning in
their season tickets, not renewing, and that that's what does the talking when
it gets to the president and CEO is who's spending the money and who's not?
Because I get that was my fall up question was are we at the
point and I want to kind of compare this to Edmond Timberlare we at the
point where if they don't do anything, it's like demonstrable damage here at the
end, you know, going in the next season. Oh they're doing something
they can't do any like it is. Stuff's happening. It's just a matter
of when it could be. Like we could be talking on Sunday, like
if everything goes sideways, if Calgary beats PC, which I don't see happening,
but if they do it and Saskatchewan loses and it's over, Yeah,
we're talking Sunday Monday and changes are being made and contracts are not going to
it's going to be announced as well, we will not renew the contract.
We are beginning the process of finding the new head coach, potentially new a
general manager and even lesser so likelihood of a new president and CEO. Like
this is going to be a deep, deep change for the rough Riders after
this season? Is there? And you know, obviously swath of you know,
people across the board or whatever I mean, is there like realistic?
Yeah, because all I hear is, Hey, you trying to get people,
you know, coach in the CFL and we got the Caps and you
know everything, Like is it? Do you think there's enough qualified people out
there that bring in to kind of rebuild the writers? I think so?
And I think like with Kyle Walter's contract not being renewed yet in Winnipeg,
he'd be the first guy i'd call as as if you're changing the general manager,
and then there's Buck Pierce, etc. Etc. You go down on
trying to tie the connections on who can do Jordan mcsimmick would be somebody I'd
reach out to the BC Lions offensive coordinator. We're seeing young good coordinators and
I think Ryan did would he set a good example And it doesn't even have
to be a coordinator if you think it's a good, young, smart coach.
And we're seeing in the National Football League too with like Mike McDaniels and
some of these guys Zach Taylor who are younger, who get a year maybe
not even any as a coordinator experience, but going, wow, they are
smart. And that's where I go. I would go with an offensive coach
to start things off and let a defensive coordinator cuk a little bit without being
the head coach, because this offense the last three years has been woeful and
that's what really needs needs to That's what we'll get people in the stands scoring
thirty points. That sells tickets. Have you know this? I mean,
like attendance wise this year? Is it? Because obviously we were there for
Great Cup and it was a weird situation because you know, Weinnpig's there and
we don't want to deal with that. But I mean it is you're talking
people turning in their season tickets, but is that actually happening? Well,
it will be interesting to see. We can't. We're having a hard time
giving away our season tickets this weekend. We just can't. Like I'll be
there for my job, but my family can't be there for you know,
sports commitments for our kids, and usually it's easy. Other people are texting
the show like is anybody else having a hard time even giving away tickets?
And the announced I forget what it was twenty seven thousand or something for the
last home game against Hamilton, there was eighteen thousand people there, Like that
was not those there's people that are definitely not using their tickets. Not when
people are, they're out of town ers. They're traveling two, three,
four hours away to games, and I know it's kind of mind boggling.
I know different markets are like what hell season ticket holders travel that far consistently.
It's like, yeah, in Saskatchewan, a two hour drives nothing.
I'll do a two hour drive there and back in the day and not even
blinking high. So that's what. That's the lifestyle here. So people are
saying they don't want to spend the gas money to watch. So I'll be
very interested to see and it's unfortunate because it's fan appreciation night, but I'll
be interested to see how many Green seats are sitting there empty on Saturday.
Yeah, that was like the Mariners there last week of the season had fan
Appreciation Week, Like it was very apparent at that point we had played ourselves
out of the playoffs. I'm like, I'm not even now. I listened
to that we were driving back from BC for that fun experience, you know,
BC winn the peg at BC there on whatever. October Friday, was
listening to Michael Ball and Luke called game was an interesting perspective having Hamilton come
in and it discompletely pants the Riders, like you shouldn't kind of hap it
like that, No, it is that was bad. That was just when
you had ever all the emotion of that week with George Reid, the twenty
thirteen team, they inducted the first woman in the Riders Plaza of Honor,
Wendy Kelly, Like they were honoring the past, they were honoring their legends,
they're paying tribute. George Reed's family is there and you lay an absolute
egg, like absolutely it. Craig Dickinson called it embarrassing, and it was.
It was completely embarrassing for the organization and head coach Craig Dickinson was bang
on with his assessment after the game in terms of it's weird that they talk
right now, we're talking like, you know, the season ticket holders and
everything and health of a franchise, where like Edmonton here, you know,
up into a couple of months ago was like on this tail spin and Victor
Queen and everything else and Tray four and I'm like, now, I mean,
you know, Chris Jones could be like coach of the Year here with
kind of this turnaround and everything, Like does that surprise you? Because like,
I think in a different and obviously we're talking about it, but in
the world where Edmonton maybe didn't have this dumpster fire for half the year,
there's more of a spotlight on Saskatchewan and Calgary in terms of like kind of
fundamental issues going on with am I surprised that Chris Jones has turned it around.
Well, just surprised that at this point, like they're looking like it's
roses over there compared to what's going on in Saskatchewan in Calgary. For me,
I'm surprised it took this long. We saw Chris Jones do this in
Saskatchewan and he took over in twenty sixteen. He gutted the team, he
brought in guys. They had a slow start in year two, but you
know they were cooking. They got I think ten wins that year, and
that's where it was like, oh, what is going on? Oh and
nine they made a huge er with trey Ford, Like it was a huge
error on evaluating what he brought to the team. And if they would have
started trey Ford week four, week five, they're in the playoffs. They're
a playoff team. I truly believe that. And we're not even having a
conversation about the Riders and the Calgary Stampeders trying to get to the playoffs.
I think Edmonton would be a playoff team if they make that move earlier.
So there was some sort of personality conflict between the coach and the quarterback,
which is unfortunate. But you have to put ego aside sometime and make sure
you got the best guys out there, and trey Ford is definitely that for
Edmonton. Thoughts on Calgary and just kind of the state of everything there,
I mean, obviously not your direct market, but here in the West,
like because it seems like that's another there's precariousness coming up there. These are
two bad teams, Calgary and Saskatchewan's like that game last week was painful to
watch the two teams battling for a playoffs, but and both of them looked
like they were at points disinterested in winning the football game and making bad decisions.
So I've been calling it a snails race for third between these two sides.
So I I still think the Riders make the playoffs. I do.
I think the most likely scenario is Calgary loses both their games, Saskatchewan loses
their game, and Saskatchewan still gets in the playoffs, like crazy, Like
since Labor Day weekend, when Calgary and Saskatchewan both won at home. Calgary
beat Edmonton, Saskatchewan beats Winnipeg. Their combined records are one and nine for
Calgary and Saskatchewan. Like that is unbelievable. How poor these two teams have
played down the stretch. As I was listening that I was film in because
I was like Labor Day and I was booked to film some festival and so
I'm literally outside. I got because it's so hard to watch games in America
now, like the you know, I thought the CFL plus thing was great.
People told me the CFL plus things great. No. Yeah, if
I'm available for three hours uninterrupted in the exact time the game on, it's
great. But if you have to if you have anything else in your life
going on in that specific time, you can never you know, God forbid,
I watch a game an hour later on demand or whatever. But I'm
sitting there, I'm listening to the CFL. Plus, I got my headphone
in. I'm filming, and I'm listening to you know, Saskatchwan that crazy
game, right, the crazy the yeah, the labor what they call the
Labor Day Classic game. Yeah, yeah, and just to see, like,
because we're doing our little Monday recap shows now we're like, man,
like, you know, Saskatchewan's really got some life and dog Gallon like this
feels like and I just completely lost from there. Do you do you do
you like doll gall going forward? I mean, do you think he's a
solution going in the next year? I think there's the quarterback spot is interesting.
Clearly it's no longer Mason Fine or they'd make the or Mason Fine would
be back in because Jake Dolegala has not been that great over the last couple
of weeks. So clearly it's Jake Doligala. What do you do next year
with Trevor Harris if he can play, if he's healthy. I would think
whoever's coming in would want a veteran coach. And then do you have Jake
Dolegala's number two and just change out the quarterbacks behind him. I don't think
a rebuild you go in with Jake dolagalah or you're running into a potential of
a Taylor Cornelia situation where you're oh to nine to start a season. You're
in desperation mode, which is no way to start anew But I still think
I would like to see Jake Dolegala with different coaching. That's I want to
see him with a QB coach and an offensive coordinator who have been there,
done that. Kelly, Jeff free fell into the job because all these other
more qualified coaches turned them down. And that's where it's almost okay, Kelly,
it's yours and it hasn't been a wow at all. So and I
watched drills. I watched practice drills of the quarterbacks, and I was like,
they don't work on footwork really and stuff like that, or like I
remember watching Jason Moss, I remember watching Kahari Jones. Watching those guys work
quarterbacks and the drills they do and there looks more polished, and that's what
I haven't seen in Saskatchewan this year. So I would really like to see
who gets brought in and what kind of QB tutelage Jake Dolagala can get because
I'm not sure he's been gotten this full support over the last two years.
It's interesting. I mean, I think, you know, if he you
know, it's one of those things like if he was your choice, he
would have just started him. You know, you wouldn't have gotten it done
at Trevor Harris and kind of all that stuff, you know, because it
was right going into this season, people didn't want to go Saskatchwan right because
you were still having Digginson and everything. But now you think it'd be if
you could come in and make everything our own, right, it like Saskatchew
would be a very appealing place for a new head coach, I would think.
So I would think if it's like, oh, you got a veteran
quarterback under contract, that's a good start, because you don't want you go
into a position you're like, who's the quarterback, Like right now it's Trevor
Harris if he's healthy and you have some potential behind him, and I think
there's a great core of Canadians. I think jerem Oda has done a good
job of drafting and bringing in Canadians, Like there's a good enough group here
that you can definitely look at and go, oh yeah, I could make
this work and probably do a quicker turnaround than a complete overhaul and have it
be a two or three year plan so to speak, in terms of just
kind of rounding out the conversation here before we go about the West. Just
curious your thoughts on the kind of the BC Winnipeg of it all. I
you know, I wanted to be at that game. I kind of thought
that was BC season and you know, not having the opportunity to be first
and having to go into Winnipeg, Like, to me, that was and
it was funny because I think they had done a really good job hyping that
game up for local people because I'm sitting there and people are like, oh,
like are they out now? Like what does this mean? Well?
No, but like you know it kind of it kind of feels that way.
What do you make of that and just kind of what is likely BC
in some regard going into Winnipeg and playing in the West. I I like
the BC Lions. I like this matchup. Clearly, they match up well
against each other. There's win, one blowout, and then another blowout and
then a really good close game that Winnipeg count came back to win, which
shows, Yeah, the BC Lions can win a football game, and they
have one in Winnipeg, so they have that belief in them. It's just
whether or not Vernon Adams can keep the ball safe and that BC lines defense
needs to get better. They've been allowing a lot of points recently, like
that. At the start of the season. You don't remember it was like
they were allowing less than one touchdown a game. They were dominant. Now
I think they're averaging almost thirty points per game allowed. So that's the that's
the big issue. If BC cleans up their defense and Ryan Phillips gets that
crew anywhere close to what they were at the start of the season, I
think the BC Lions could be in the Great Cup. Yeah, I mean
they would have done that boys, and then they were getting that fifty burgers
and I think a minute joke on to think about it. Last thing for
me, like you know, and you've done this, you know clearly a
lot longer than I've been involved in the space like, you know, we
talked Saskatchewan Calgary, right, Ottawa's got its own bag of issues over there.
How are you feeling, like just stated the CFL here, I mean
for the most part, what you know, six five six teams feeling decent?
Like, how do you just kind of rate the space? He remember
going on? Well, I like that we've seen increased attendance in Toronto,
a bit of an uptick in other markets as well. Of course, Ottawa
is going to be down. It's been back to back to back bad years,
like they're in the Great Cup in twenty eighteen. It's just gone south
since that time. But I think that's a fan base you can win back
with wins. Clearly they'll show up, so they'll have some work to do
this offseason. Saskatchewan fans. If they get to nine and nine next year,
they'll have a good group of fans coming back to the stadium. So
overall, I think the CFL has improved. The ratings are up or have
been up from last year. I think there's growing interest, which I think
all culminates from just being around again. That lost season was I think it
was a bad call. I think you needed to play even if it was
an eight week season something to exist. A lot of people were turned off
by the so I think it's back to normal, back to eighteen weeks all
that stuff for these teams. I'm interested to see how the Saturday playoff games
go rather than playing on Sunday. Ratings wise, it's a bit of a
change other than the Gray Couple still be playing on Sunday, of course,
But all in all, I think there's a lot of positive signs. Unfortunately,
Edmonton Ottawa have not been good attendance wise, but again, if trey
Ford lights some fire in Edmonton, those fans will come back. I think
we did the math that Toronto has more wins this season than Odawas had since
their Gray Cup season. I think is what it was with fourteen or whatever
review combined the season. Yeah, the Saturday thing, yeah, I got
the schedule for the media staff for the CFL and they're like, everything shifted
up. I'm like, well, this is lovely for people coming in and
trying to you know, coming from out of town. Everything shifted up,
so we'll see. I had complaints about that, and then I found out
today the dang bar I was going to use to do our show TSM rented
it out the whole weekend, so now I got to like pivoting on that.
So TSN is getting in getting into the biz here, So still step
to figure out that way. But anything else from you, I appreciate your
time. No, it's always fun. I can't wait to see how this
all plays out in Saskatchewan offseason. And yeah, do you have any picks?
Who are are we hanging out in Hamilton again? Really we're there,
so if you're I didn't know if you Yeah, we'll be there. Tim
Bains just told me he's in Green Day put him over the top, and
we've got our whole we have our whole little Monday recap show we've been doing
coming up there. So it'll be fun. Yeah, you're certainly invited.
I think I have I think I have a plan of where we're going to
go live so it'll be convenient. And yeah, of course you're welcome to
Well, I can't I can't wait to hang out again. Always nice to
to see you guys at Great Cup And uh, what do you what do
you think? I think? Do you know? Here's my way out?
I will have the obvious prediction Toronto, Winnipeg and a rematch, that's boring.
My what more way out there prediction is last week's game was a Great
Cup preview BC Lions and the Hamilton Tiger Cats. Well, no, I
like that. I was just gonna say, because so Jason Hassi, our
co hosts on the recout you he's a tie Cats fan, and I'm obviously
in America's CFL team here, and so I think that that would be truly
what unite all the you know, unite both countries and all that. But
I would love to see, like Montreal was so close to getting there,
right and it was like the missfield goal, right, I'm like fever dream
now. I've had an XFL in the USFL season in between, like whatever
happened with that, But we'd love to see, you know, Cody in
there. But I think Toronto. I just yeah, if it's Toronto Winnipeg
again, it's just hard. But at least Toronto it feels a little fresh
because you just from last year. So if Cody Fajardo is makes it to
the Great Cup Saskatchewan, I don't know what we'll do with ourselves because it
was get him out of here last year, like he is terrible, Get
him out and if he makes a great cup. He he has a lot
of breaking rights over the Saskatchewan rough Riders, and good on him if he
does. I was whatever the misfield or whatever away from a Gary Stern would
have been live on our show for you. I had it, and his
word would have been their great come. I think I could. I think
I could get Cody on Saturday before. I think we could get Cody on
if he if this works out, but otherwise fever dream Chack. Kelly's already
followed me on Twitter, So I think that ship has sailed. But Jamie,
I appreciate it. Yeah, we'll see you soon. Making time here
at night and everything else that means a lot, Yeah, no problem.
Read I was appreciate it. Can't wait to see in Hamilton. Well,
I appreciate it. Making time today. I'm outside my neighbor. I'm exporting
wedding video edits right now. My neighbor's cutting tiles. So hopefully this works
out. We have gored back here, you know, Crown good, I
Nation everything else. How are you, sir? I'm good. It looks
like the weather in your neck of the woods is a heck of a lot
better than the weather in mind, so well, we're similar times and similar
all that going on there. We got West Coast represent this week. Yes,
absolutely, I'm in the soggy version of the West Coast, so Northwest
Coast, well, I appreciate BC Lions here today. I want to get
your thoughts on that. We're talking CFL week twenty everything else, Uh,
you know, bird's eye view. What do you make of the season thus
far? I know, didn't we saw you in one of the games?
Was it last year or it all kind of blurs together here? But what
have you made of CFL twenty twenty three. I mean, I think it's
been a good year. I'm pretty biased out here on the West Coast,
you know, like the the the storyline going into the season was how are
the Lions gonna respond to the loss of Nathan Rourke and was Vernon Adams gonna
be able to steal the steer the ship? And I think that that's been
answered with the resounding yes. Adams is squarely in the middle of the MP
conversation. I think I think he's probably a little bit of an underdog behind
Claro's, but he's in that conversation, which tells you, how about how
the year's gone. So you know, from a biased perspective out here on
the West Coast, it's been a phenomenal season and what I think has been
interesting. You know, Winnipeg and Toronto have been kind of the top of
the heap in both conferences for the last couple of years. But some of
the other like traditional powerhouses like Calary for example, is sketching and Cline just
make the playoffs right now? You know, Saskatchewan's right on that bar as
well. Uh, the phenomenal turnaround of the Evonton Elks once they finally started
playing trade Ford Like, There's been some really great storylines carrying on throughout the
year that I think have certainly drawn my interest even more so than they would
in a normal year, because I think there's been a lot of intriguing and
a lot of excitement. What I don't get and I agree with you,
Vernon has been phenomenal. That was kind of my biggest question mark going into
this year. So if he's been good except for that Toronto game, right,
you know, everyone kind of lays a you know, even Jalen Hurts
lay the egg here last weekend, you know for the Eagles. But what
is the Lions issue then, I mean, I was there for the Winnipeg
game. They've dropped some of these very winnable games against Hambleton, Like what
did you what is their issue right now? If it's not Vernon. I
mean, I think there's a there's a couple of things with regards to the
Winnipeg games, like I don't want to give them a pass, but you
know that that Winnipeg game ends with them like losing out on a couple of
pretty key crucial breaks. You know, Vernon Adams probably has that critical first
down with two minutes left in that game that would have a lot of them
to basically ice it, and that they don't get that call. And we
don't really need to spend a lot of time getting into the merits of that,
but that that ends up really being a backbreaker for them. Uh.
And then the previous two games against Winnipeg as well, like and and don't
forget too that the Lions had, you know, had Donnie I think was
Rhyme's. Had Donnie Grimes had the audacity and the and the wherewithal to hit
the ground right at the end of regulation, then Lions almost certainly win that
given the season that Sean White has had. Now, I don't blame him
for that, but again it circumstantially. They caught a couple of pretty bad
breaks in that fourth quarter along the way to blowing that big lead against Winnipeg
and then the previous two games Winnipeg in Winnipeg. Don't forget, we're not
just in Winnipeg, but the Lions, and both of them are on the
back end of a short week, coming off of a Sunday game and a
Saturday game, with the second one Winnipeg coming off of a bye. Like
these odds were very much stacked against them in that so they've run into some
misfortune with Winnipeg in particular this year in terms of their shortcomings, their issues.
Their ability to run the football effectively has been an issue all season long.
They've been a very one dimensional offense. You know, they lose their
left guard early in the season to what's probably a career threatening injury unfortunately,
or health condition, I guess I should say, And you know, so
they've been working with backups on the offensive line pretty much the entire season,
so they do have that as maybe a bit of an excuse working for them.
But what has been interesting watching the team is. I feel like I
have seen some explosion out of the running game, but they just haven't been
able to do so consistently. Like I like Smoke Azelle, I liked Sean
Shivers when he was in earlier in the season, and I and you know,
they've they've been rotating a couple other names in there as well, and
you've seen flashes, but they just have not been able to do it consistently,
and when it has been needed the most, like in the second half
of that Winnipeg game, where they needed to try and run the clock the
salt the game away, they just weren't effectively able to do that. I
just don't get if you're if you're the BC Lions and you know all roads
go through Winnipeg here regardless, and you know home field advantage otherwise like you're
gonna play Winnipeg, I just that wouldn't be you know, we obviously we
don't hang on the butler and you know, Myzelle, like I said,
how like you said, has been good, but this if you know that
that's your hurdle. I guess I'm just surprised that there wasn't more emphasis because
you know, Vernon slinging that, like, you know, the air game
is not the problem right now. Yeah, I mean, I do think
that salary constraints dictated a few of those decisions, right I think Butler is
a pretty obvious salary constraint decision. You know that you brought in Adams last
your part ways through the year, and you kind of had him on the
cheap, and then all of a sudden you now had to pay him like
you're starting quarterback going into this season. You know that inflates that value significantly.
And they've got a couple of other big ticket guys as well. You
know, if you're going to have, like, let's face it, they've
got probably the most talented receiving core in the entire league. But if you're
going to have that intact with established guys across the board, you know,
those guys all come at a pretty good ticket. So I think salary constraints
have been a part of it. And in terms of bigger issues with the
team as well, Like I have been pretty openly critical of Rick Campbell's game
management, his personnel management is outstanding. He's one of the best players coaches
in the entire league. I would say but I have been very critical of
his game management, his use of challenges, his management of clocks and timeout,
and some of his decisions to kick field goals. I do think that
at the margins that has hurt this team at times as well, and so
I'm hopeful it doesn't come back to bite them in when things matter the most.
I don't want to look too far ahead here because obviously we're still optimistic
for the season. BC hosting next year, right, great cup. I
feel like we're in a window right now. Are we in the middle of
a window? Is a window close? Like, where do you view the
BC right now? Well, I think they're squarely in the middle of the
window, and that that's in large part because of Vernon Adams. Now,
Adams has his shortcomings, but he's a guy who's who's in the prime of
his career. If and now you're insulated from if Nathan Mark sticks in the
NFL, it never comes back, and that that is a real change in
fortunes from at the outside of the season where it was. Man Hopefully the
Adams can be a decent stop gap. But you know, we don't know
how we're going to react to losing. You know, the best quarterback that's
been in this league in a decade. You know, it's tough to tough
to bounce back from that, and so you know, you put that into
perspective. I think the Lions have done a phenomenal job of not just bouncing
back from that, but thriving despite that. This team, it isn't the
same as Nathan Murk's team last year, but it doesn't look that different from
nathan Orks team last year. And that's that's full credit to that, you
know, the players on the field and the staff involved. I do still
like the Lions answers, especially given those circumstantial things I talked about when playing
Winnipeg. But the reality of the matter is that, barring something completely miraculous
working in the Lion's favor the last couple weeks here, you put yourself in
a position where you're gonna have to win that game in Winnipeg to get through
the Great Cup. That's I mean to say, that's never easies and understatement,
that's a really, really toll task to ask. And it's Winnipeg.
They've cut their teeth. They're not just a good talented team. They know
how to win in this league, and so you know, the odds are
against them to get through to the Great Cup. But that being said,
you have as explosive an offense as they have, and you can win any
game, you know, and Ryan Phillips has shown the ability to at least
keep the lid on even the best offenses in this league, if not shut
them down entirely, and so it very well could all come together for them.
It's remarkable. Yeah, Vernon, I don't want to kind of pooh
pooh what he's done in the last couple of years where it certainly feels like
a comeback kind of you know, you could give a comeback player reward right
now. I do Vernon has any fear that I had going into the season.
And believe me, like I you know, I love Vernon as a
person and you know from local here in Northwest guy. But talk about just
a way to kind of change the narrative on that you were talking about him
being the underdog in the MP race. If the Toronto game doesn't happen,
is he more up there? I mean, what what do you think it
is? Is it dis because Claros and the Bombers are that much more dominant.
I mean, I think the head to heads work against him fairly or
otherwise, right, and and he in going up against zac Galleros, he's
zero to three. And to be honest, I think for a lot of
people that conversation begins and ends there the Toronto. The adding in the numbers
of that Toronto implosion probably don't help as well, especially given that you can
now make the argument that you know, in the games against the two best
teams in the league, or at least the two other best teams in the
league, he's he's really struggled and he's really made hay against the lesser lights
of this league. And so you could make that case if you were making
that against him, and I suspect that's probably what's going to sway a lot
of voters at this point in terms of the you know, we talked the
window for BC here in terms of being the championship team Winnipeg. Are you
viewing them near the end of that or you know, we've had people on
the show for weeks and Okay, the defense is getting the old or not
as dominant this year. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think
the one guy that really gives you hope for the future and some pause in
that take, is Brady olivera olvera still in his mid twenties. You know,
he's got a lot of good years ahead of him. You know,
it's not fair to anybody to set the bar at Andrew Harris, but if
he has anything resembling in Andrew Harris' career, you got a lot of years
of elite production potentially left in him. And certainly, if you set that
old thirty year old mark that running backs often get, well, you still
got a handful of years before you hit that, So that gives you some
hope for the future. You know, quarterback long Jevity is as good as
ever. I think Klaris has a lot of years left in him. I
do think they'll have to reload on the defense eventually, Lea. But you
know, I look at some of the key guys on that defense, Adam
bak Hill, for example. One of the one of the things that's been
the thing with Big Hill since he's been in the league is that he is
as notorious of a diligent guy that takes care of his body in every sense
of the word as anybody in the league. And so if anybody's gonna be
set up to have longevity at a position like like linebacker. It's a guy
like Adam bake Hill who just who lives to take care of his body,
you know, and to take best care of himself. So I'm no,
I'm not by any means rushing to bury the Winnipeg Boo Bombers yet. I
but you're right there are They are a little bit older, and I think,
you know, the changing of the guard is going to be inevitable eventually.
And frankly, the run of success they've had in the Western Conference has
been pretty unprecedented for them, uh in the last handful of years. So
it hasn't translated into a into a rash of Great Cup victories like they may
have expected. But within the Western Conference they've been as dominant as anybody we've
seen in a long time in this league. So that I think that Air
the Lions are very close to challenging them now. I think that era is
slowly coming to an end, but they are far from dead yet. It's
just frustrated not to do you know too much your BC Winnipeg, But you
know, you look and I think we stack up pretty well across the board,
except, like you said, kind of that key running back and you
know, my Zell not really you know, being fine, and that's maybe
not even like relying too much on that when we need to. It's just
it is frustrating because you feel like you could doing that kind of the apples
apples comparison right now for sure, and watching the games between the two of
them might find really fun because there's there's two real different personalities on offense.
Right on offense, Winnipeg just wants to bludgeon you. They just they just
want to keep chipping away you constantly, you know, keep keep throwing punches
and just bit by bit wear you down, which is what you kind of
saw in that last game between the two of them. BC, on the
flip side, is much more of an explosive offense that's gonna that's looking for
those explosion plays that are going to just rock you to your core, and
they are very capable of doing that. And so I find that to be
a really fun class of styles watching the two teams compete. Ultimately, I
think the difference between the two of them comes down to whether the pass rushes
are effective on either side. You know, the Lions matchw Betts has had
obviously an incredible season but the Lion's pass rush has been a little hit and
miss, you know, and even catching the break with Patty Neufeld being out
for the last game against Winnipeg, the Lions when it mattered most, you
know, they created a turnover in the second half, huge one, but
when it came down to it in the fourth quarter, they weren't able to
get Koalaro's off his spot and off of his reads when they needed to most.
And so that I think is going to be one of the keys for
the Lions coming down the stretch and against these elite opponents. Is I'm not
worried about their secondary. I'm worried about whether their front Steven can consistently harass
the opposition and get them out of their game plan. Is there a world
where Calgary beats BC here on Friday? I think I got the email to
do with the blackout, blackout game. We talk about this game all the
Yeah, I think there's a world where Calgary beats BC, but I don't
expect them to. But there's definitely a world where Calary beats PC. Like,
let's all forget Calgary is fighting for their lives here and while BC theoretically
still has a chance at first place. There's like, I have a really
hard time seeing Winnipeg with a chance to lock down first PA first place lose
to a an eliminated Edmonton L's team. Now, stranger things have definitely happened,
but you know that that doesn't feel like a likely scenario. So I
don't know the Lions are going to go into this with that that that real
one hundred and ten percent type edge, whereas Calgary is, and that's kind
of an intangible quality that can level the playing field, despite the fact that
I am not super impressed with Calgary's roster as currently stands. So yeah,
I think the Lions are the more talented team. You know, it's it's
the last game of the season for them. They want to finish out strong,
all that kind of good stuff. But the other thing that looms here
too is it's the potential for a rematch in the Western semi as well,
right, And so there's also that added element of the Lions maybe potentially being
a little bit cagy and playing some things a little closer to the vest,
knowing that you know, the downside is pretty minimal for them in losing this
game, and they and they may potentially have to have this team again when
it matters most. So that element is also a play, which I know
a lot people aren't thinking that way, but with the Lions having a buy
next week like that, that's how they're thinking. So it's I think that's
an interesting dynamic to it. Too. Bigger disappointment this year at Calgary or
a Saskatchewan, I would say Saskatchewan. I personally did not necessarily have that
high of an expectation for Calgary. I know that they'd made the decision that
Jake Jake Mayor was their guy and they were moving on from bo Levi.
But Mayor, like Mayor, showed competence last year, but he didn't really
show more than that. And if you looked at the surrounding cast of characters,
I didn't necessarily, as I kind of alluded to before, I didn't
necessarily see what I thought was an exceptionally talented roster around him. I don't
think it's one of the stronger rosters in the league if we're being honest.
Saskatchewan, on the other hand, you can you can give them the quarterback
injury thing, and that I think is a fair a fair uh excuse to
give them, but you know it's Saskatchewan. Expectations are always high in Saskatchewan.
Uh, They've gone through a pretty significant for them at least drought at
this point in time in terms of having sustained success. You know, this
is not the Saskatchewan rough Riders of our father's era that went decades without winning
Great Cups and that was just the reality of it. You know, the
modern rough Riders have an expectation to be competing for Great Cups every single year
and so for them not to I mean realistically not to come anywhere near that.
You know that this is a below five hundred team. You know that's
that's not a Great Cup contender. And if they back into the playoffs,
great for them. But you know that the Sea of Green is not pleased
with not having even a single playoff game to go cheer for. So I
would say that they're the bigger disappointment all in all in terms of Edmonton here
taking on whether we have right weather peg, A lot of momentum here kind
of coming out and we've joked on here and there. You start trade forward
here maybe week four and we're in the completely different But I are you excited
for the Elks moving forward optimistic, what adjective would you use? Well,
the big elephant in the room for me is Chris Jones. He's making a
ton of money. I don't think you can get rid of him logistically,
but I don't know that he's shown the ability. He's a great in game
schemer, I don't know that he's shown the ability to He's kind of the
opposite of Rick Campbell in a lot of ways. Right. This guy can
draw the heck out of a defense. He's a good schemer that way,
a great game planner, but the way that he manages personnel is not effective.
It's just not he has thrown in the past. He's thrown big money
at guys that are over the hill, that have made minimal impact. He
has stuck with guys that anybody with working pair of eyes can see or not
getting the job done for far too long. I think there's a legitimate argument
that his decision at quarterback is the singular reason that they're not in the playoff
team this year. So I think that's the leoming question for them. Trade
Ford, I'm fully bored the trade Ford bandwagon. You see a creator like
that, so long as he stays healthy. I think that that's a really
exciting player in this league and a guy that can get things done. Like
he gives me. He kind of gives me Damon Allen vibes in the way
that he plays. I wouldn't say he has the arm strength that Damon Allen
did his peak, but that's the kind of vibe that I get from him.
And I mean, as as Edmonton fans know well as anybody Damon and
Allen was an incredibly successful player in this league. So having that piece in
place gives you reason for optimism for sure. For sure, for sure,
But I question whether Chris Jones is going to be able to put it all
together because so far, as a head coach he hasn't. As a coordinator
he has, as a head coach he has not. And and so that's
where I wonder about things, because his tenure as a head coach, whether
in Saskatchewan or here in Edmonton, has been marred by questionable personnel decisions,
has been marred by at times controversy. It hasn't been great, and I
just don't know if he's the guy to get that job done. It's curious,
like, do you give him credit for finally coming around on Trey Ford
or do we hold that against him that took him half the season? Like
where does that line moving forward? A little? Both? A little both,
right, Like I do give him credit and and you know we need
to, I think understand his context, which is that you know, he's
a guy from Tennessee and you know his his background. His context is he
is an American guy through and through. And there are some you know,
some biases pup to past when that's your background, right, you know,
you see a guy like Cornelius, Well, Cornelius went to Oklahoma State,
and if you're Chris Jones, you're looking at that being like, okay,
well, I know Oklahoma State. Goods cool, they play some really good
ball. This kid must play some really good ball. It defies logic to
look at two players and then look at the other player and go, okay,
well I got a small kid that went to Waterloo which I couldn't even
point out on a map of Waterloos and and start him over Taylor Cornelius who
went to Oklahoma State. Right like that, So I do give him a
little bit of credit for eventually coming around on that. But that being said,
what were you looking at during training camp and in practice and during the
first what was it seven games? I think that Cornelius started something like that,
is like, how did it take you seven games to look at this
and go this isn't working? And at some point in time too, when
you're owing whatever own eight of the gate, like, that's what it took
you to finally make a change, holy smokes man, Like you waited until
you were already out of the playoffs to make the change. And it felt
like for a good month that the only thing keeping Corneyliss in the job was
your stubbornness and insisting that you got it right initially. And so there's two
sides to the coin with that, because I don't want to not give him
any credit, but at the same time, I don't want to go and
praise him and say, oh, well he gave a Canadian quarterback a chance.
That's awesome. Well let's be a little bit more critical about the context
around that as well, because I think we need to be fair. We
also need to be fair that way in terms of just talking to East here
real quick before we get out, who do you have you know? For
the semis al Letts have been a little bit more of a roller coaster.
Hamilton coming on strong here, What do you make? I like the ceiling
for Hamilton better than Montreal, But what I've seen when you see those East
on East matchups, Montreal has has kind of owned aside from Toronto, has
owned the rest of the East. Like it's been a pretty clear cut second
best team in that vision. And you know, Cody Fajardo, as long
as he can avoid throwing interceptions, which has been a pretty big question around
him this year, But as long as he can avoid throwing interceptions, you
know, Montreal has spent most of those games kind of in command of it.
Hamilton's been kind of an enigma this year. Like I expected them to
be better and pretty squarely in the thick of that race. Maybe not quite
with the Argonauts, but but you know, comfortably right in behind them,
and it just hasn't quite worked out that way. You know, ver Londo
Steinauer, once one of the rising stars of this league, that stars dimmed
pretty significantly at this point in time. They The quarterback question is is interesting,
like it appears that they're trying to go with the two quarterback system right
now. It's split time. I don't know how effective that's going to be.
It has worked in some cases before, but it's pretty rare where two
quarterback systems work effectively for a team. It's usually an indication that you don't
love either quarterback. And given that you just went out and acquired believe I
Mitchell this offseason to settle that question, that's not really where you want to
be. But I was really impressed with the way they hung it against BC.
You know, they lost, they lost on a last second field goal
in that game, but I thought for most of the second half of that
game they were the better team of the two. So you know, that's
that's them playing legitimate playoff caliber football, and if they can keep that up
then maybe they can make a go of it. It'll be an interesting matchup.
And in Montreal, I would say too, like their venue isn't necessarily
the most hostile environment to go into him winning the league either. Yeah,
yeah, so I I think it's a winnable game for the road team.
But I also like what Montreal has done this year when they've been challenged within
their conference. They've looked pretty in control of those games throughout. I like
what they're doing on defense. I really like Austin Mack and I think that
if they you know, going going with the right mindset, that they should
be good. But Hamilton's really come on, like you said, and so
I think there's a lot more question marks around the tire Cap'. But you
know, I talked about roster talent before. I do think through and through
the tire Cats probably are the more talented roster if they can piece it all
together. Last question here for me. You know, Ottawa disappointing, obviously
injury stuff, disappointing last year, obviously injury stuff like disappointment, what do
you make going forward? Here? We write this season off, like,
what do you do from here? Because it's been a long time before they've
seen any success. I mean, I think you, I think you write
this season off. But I do think that you take your critical review of
Bob Diyce and his staff and decide whether he's the guy moving forward. I
didn't love he sounds like he's a very well respected guy and and uh,
you know, a good tach, good players coach and that kind of stuff.
And but I I just given the way the previous era in Ottawa went,
I was a little surprised that they hired from within. There's also been
some rumblings that the level of financial investment in this roster has not really been
up to par with the rest of the league as well, and that's something
that I think OSEEG and the ownership group is going to have to take a
hard look in the mirror and review because I wonder if and this is purely
me spitball, I don't have insider information here, but I do wonder if
there's maybe a little bit of complacency selling in from OSEEG and that in the
Red Blacks era, they've managed to carve out a pretty darn good thing in
Ottawa. That venue is excellent, the fan base is really supportive. They
have a great atmosphere pretty much all the time, and they've tested it with
not putting great teams on the field last couple of years and it's held up
reasonably well. But I don't know how much further they can push it.
I think they really need to buckle down and get things figured out. I
think they thought that they were doing that by bringing in a guy like Jeremiah
Masoli to kind of carry the load, but that didn't work out. I
don't know if he'll be able to come back and help them out next year
either, So they kind of have to get back to the drawing board.
But the thing that's very clear with Ottawa is that, you know, once
Masoli was out, it was kind of exposed that this roster's without him probably
the worst in the league, and they really need to address that. And
that's not that doesn't have to cost you a lot of money, but you
have to invest in things like effective scouting and the amateur draft and stuff like
that and get more squeezed more out of that stone. If you're going to
make it, go of it. They're certainly capable of doing so, but
I I don't know if that level of desperation seems to be there to the
extent that it would be in other markets after consecutive seasons like the like the
Red Blocks have had blast a couple of years, and so I wonder how
quickly that'll change. Well, I appreciate that. I like that good insights
there, because you know, I get kind of different opinions on that because
it's like, oh, Sean Berg and you know, so it's good to
hear that. I appreciate it taking time here in the middle of work and
everything else. And that really makes I appreciate it, and that we'll hope
that the Lions here or whatever ends up with that they can they can go
in here a little. I kind of felt like that was the end of
the season here a couple of weeks ago, but we'll see a fingers crossed
Yeah, we'll see that that was That was a tough one to lose.
But hey, they bounce back and a tough road game last week. You
know they're still fighting. I am very confident they'll end up in Winnipeg for
that Western Final. I'm not super confident they'll get through that, but I'm
gonna tune in to see so Gord, thanks again, appreciate it, of
course you take care man, really appreciate all of our guests for coming on
today. Paul Reese is always making himself available with all the other work he
does, tracking all these alternative football leagues, running our sports Central, and
his family everything else means a lot. And then, like I said,
Jamie and I taking time after work looking forward to seeing him up in Hamilton
here for the Great Cup in just a few weeks. And then Gord Randall
is always making time a crown Ger that ooundation all of that, Jim Ullan
and our friends, Mike Cogan everyone over there. Super appreciate Gord with that
and working on getting our location solidified for our great Cup show. Can you
believe TSN that we were at the George Hamilton two years ago across the street
from the convention Center, almost like the perfect location to do a live show.
Call them up TSN right, the entire venue, the entire weekend,
So hopefully that means we'll have friends nearby we can bring them on the program
as well. But getting all that figured out for our CFL breakup show here
coming up on November eighteenth, just about a month away. Like I said,
like and subscribe. Hope you guys enjoy should be news coming here soon.
Lots of stuff happening, swirling hearing, lots of rumors with his XFL
usfl UFL United football stuff, So make sure you're subscribed. Like I said,
stay tuned and we'll see you next time. Have a good weekend. Thanks,