This is pod Popular Podcast for the People, The Great Love Debate. It's
the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a great loved Hi
again, everyone's Brian Howie. Welcome to The Great Love Debate, the world's
number one dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I'm here at the very
fine studios of Pod Popular Podcasts for the People. I am, but the
one in Greenwich, Connecticut. Gloomy Day in Greenwich, Connecticut, So I
don't know. That's not exactly a chamber of commerce material Gloomy Day in Greenwich,
Connecticut. They don't put that in the ads. I want to talk
about something that we have not talked about in a couple of years on this
podcast. It's a fascinating subject to me. I have a lot of opinions
on it. I think I'm fairly well versed in it. But I had
to bring in a pro. I had to bring in a pro to break
it all down and answer some of the questions that I had. We're talking
about rom coms today, talk about romantic comedies. We're talking about the good
ones, the bad ones, Why it may or may not be a dying
breed, why it does not get necessarily the recognitions that they want, even
though rom coms are some of people's favorite movies. Ever, so I brought
in a two decades at least film critic, entertainment writer, keen, social
observer, and most importantly, the host of the Film Fury podcast. He
did a great job breaking down Oscar season what should have won? He was
about one hundred percent accurate on his predictions. The esteemed Alan Zeitlin, how
are you, OHI Brian grasive here? Thanks for having me. I think
I don't count Shakespeare in Love. I don't. I don't think it's a
romantic I don't think it's a comedy. I don't think I don't I don't
think anybody if you take that out and I'm gonna arbitrarily just take that out
equation, a romantic comedy has not I believe one and oz one best picture
since Annie Hall nearly fifty years ago. Is that right? Or am I
missing why it's true? There's some debate, Like there's some debate. Is
Silver Line Linings Playbook a romantic comedy? Is Jerry maguire romantic comedy? They
didn't win thom right. There's a film that I love, Eternal time in
the Spotless Mind that has little comedy, so I think, but they didn't
win though, right, I think you're they all win something almost famous is
I think a romantic comedy one screenplay, I think Silver Linings playbook, Jennifer
Lawrence. What. That's another thing. The Academy tends to honor the women,
the female plenty of supporting actresses, but not the film as a whole.
I think since Andy Hall, that is a long long time to go
with a lot of very very popular movies, you know, without giving it
the credit. I mean, comedies overall don't have a really did as good
as it get win something. I think Helen Hunt won for that. Again,
the female lead tends to win for Best Actress. Means like comedy is
hard for the romantic comedies off for the women, but the men rarely get
honored in the category and the film overall. Yeah, and you were saying,
is it a dying breed? I was checking in you have very few
great rom coms that were made in recent years. You have to go back
to the eighties where it was very high. In the nineties some but now
it's you know, it's kind of like there's some cheesiness in every rom comm
that you have to accept. But it's kind of now that it's considered that
it's maybe on life support. Yeah, there's some parody ish rom comms.
The Rebel Wilson won Amy Schumer one, but sort of like the glory days
when you had Meg Ryan, Sandra Bullock, Julia Roberts, a little bit
of Kate Hudson. In this fifteen year period of rom comms, I'm not
sure that next generation. Even Drew Barrymore had a whole bunch of them.
I don't think that next generation has come up. There was a rom com
this year that did fairly well with Sidney Sweeney. I think Sidney Sweeney is
regarded as too hot to be in a rom com because you don't want to
go to a romantic comedy with your boyfriend and have him like her better.
I learned another hard lesson. I went on a Datsy movie and person Michelle
said she wanted something heavy, So I went to see Manchester by the Sea
with Casey Afflett. Oh God, and there's death and there's a lot of
crying, so she was crying then. Needless to say, it did not
go well. At the end of the date. I later met the director
of the film with Matthew Broderick a few years later, and I told him
the story. He said, what are you stupid? You know movies or
that's not a date movie. So he's like, if you're going to a
date movie, pick something lighter, and like, I know, I really
messed up. I know. I knew I lost in a relationship one time
when I heard myself saying the words two tickets for must love dogs please,
I knew that I had lost my ability to have any say. I just
asked a fourteen year old who was just in your fourteen year old, young
lady, what's your favorite rom com And she said Titanic? And I said,
I don't think there's enough comedy in Titanic, and she named like three
things that she found funny. So what do we know? I would say,
I would say drowning is not the most hilarious thing I've seen, but
that generation looks at it like her pushing him off of the raft is hilarious.
So what a time are changing, my friend? I think another element
could be because and again, if you go back in the forties, fifties,
sixties, a lot of the Oscar winners. A lot of the best
pictures were romantic comedies. They were now though, because a lot of that
corner has been taken over by Hallmark and cable movies, and a lot of
all the beats are the same. They say that if the first thing that
AI is able to generate as a screenplay is romantic comedies, number two is
sports movies, underdog stories, all that. But they say that the AI
has the easiest time replicating a screenplay for a romantic comedy. So I think
that then it relies on the cast. It relies on finding that star to
carry it, and a lot of them, you know, haven't come out
of television the way you know, you would think it would have. That
had sort of the next generation of that, And I think that's part.
What was the name of the movie? You must have seen it with Sidney'sweeni
and the guy from Tom gunn Uh what's that now? Iman? The one?
I don't know. It did like one hundred It did like a hundred
million dollars this year, But I can't remember the name of it. Anything
but you or anything but you. Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah,
And I'm sure if I you know, you go see a romantic comedy.
You can guess the beats right away, right. So part of it
is they didn't want it to be too predictable. The other there's this resistance
from men that they don't want to see a quote unquote chick flick. That
that's you know, it's hard. Even when I went to see Barbie,
they were men that were embarrassed to go and they were laughing and they said,
oh, I don't want to be here. I said, relax and
enjoy. You don't have to say you don't want to be I think that
could be true, that you don't want to But some of you ask any
guy you brought up Jerry maguire, which is definitely a romantic comedy. Everybody
likes Jerry McGuire. Everybody likes almost famous, everybody likes the wedding singer.
Pretty much every every Adam Sandler movie is pretty much a romantic comedy. Fifty
First Dates is a popular one with Drew Barrymore where he asked to convince her
each day that she likes him absolutely. And Drew Barrymore had a nice run.
She was in Sandler movie, She was in Music and Rics with You
Grant and You Grant is a big rom com guy, but there was that
period, you know that Julia Roberts the problem with it. Here's one of
the problems that the quote unquote serious actress. They eventually feel like they graduate
out of romantic comedies. They got to go do their Aaron Brockovich, they
got to go do their Blindside, they got to go do their stuff to
get their award or whatever. So they're not going to stay in it very
long. I don't know why they don't circle back once they have that Sandra
Bullet kind of did. She's you know, kind of out of the movies
for a lot of it. Now Julie Roberts might be aging herself out of
the movies, which is part of it too. But there are people that
do one or two or three and then they move on and it kind of
kills the genre. I was looking at Vantity Affairs lists for their top ones.
One that didn't make my top five was how to Lose a Guy in
Ten Days. So I wanted to know, Brian, what percentage of your
male listeners would be willing if they liked a woman to go to a Celine
dion Kant instead of a Knicks playoff him. Please please, I know that
is a really good point. That's you know, that is a big rom
Colm. That's a very popular movie. So last time we did this is
about three years ago. I made the argument and I stand by it that
When Harry Met Sally is the number one rom com and if you google various
lists, most people tend to agree with that, and it holds up.
It holds up because you could believe the story. You could believe the obstacles.
It wasn't so much guy trying to get girl out of his league,
even though Mega Ryan was super cute. It's guy trying to figure out this
basket case and her trying to figure out why the man thought this way,
and they went through all the kind of thing and they eventually got together.
That holds up in any decade. Yeah, the knock on it is that
there's too much dialogue, but I really, God forbid. I originally had
it as my number two, but I had to push it. We'll see,
because it really I didn't think it would stand up as like the tenth
time I've seen it, and I didn't expect it to stand up in twenty
twenty four as it did so many years ago, and I was surprised that
it did. I mean, it still works, and it still it hits
all the things that it needs to. Meg Ryan had you Got Mail?
She had Sleepless in Seattle? Was she and Joe vol versus the Volcano?
Was that her? I think so? I think that's her too, Like
she had a run and then we don't see a whole lot of Meg Ryan
anymore. She did one that came back this year with David U. Covenaney,
but I think it was like a Netflix movie and nobody saw it.
But she had that something about her where she's certainly cute enough, she was
certainly likable enough, but there was a little bit of like basket case appeal
that makes her relatable and makes it be like the guy who's going on a
date to the movie, he's not gonna I broughtup Sidney Sweeney thing. You
might go to a fraternity house now and you might see a Sidney Sweeney poster
on the wall. No matter how lovely the ones I just named Sandra Bullock,
Julia up, You're never gonna see a poster of them on the wall.
I think that is a key element of appeal, that the woman is
going to bring her date to a movie and not think that the date's gonna
like the girl in the movie better. And then Jennifer Lawrence had no hard
feelings in the Summer, but it was more it was a little different because
it was a younger guy. And did she have I didn't see that.
I know the movie. Did she have a romantic lead in that movie?
Kind of, But it was more that she wanted to get money to pretend
to like him, and it wasn't because he was younger. It wasn't like
they're going to actually ever have a real romance. So it was more it
was kind of and but it was. She was good in it, but
it wasn't. I'm hoping there can be a resurgence in rom comic because I
like them, and yeah, I think everybody likes them. I think they're
good. Silver Lining's Playbook was really off the wall, and again she played
a troubled at best woman, so did he They got together. It was
funny, but it didn't do huge box office. Silver Lining in Lining's Playbook
is not part of the everyday vocabulary. People don't talk about it that much.
But it was great and it was honored, if not Best Picture doesn't
get the top slot. What was your one? So you said, Harry
met Sally is not your one. That would still be my number, but
we'll we'll go from five. So the number five would be the Princess Bride
Rob Reiner. Yeap, you had Carrie Ellis says humperd Ink and Robin Wright
as this princess. So of course you have one of the best lines ever
of Mandy Fittink and hello, my name is Anigo Montoy. You killed my
father prepared to die. So when you have a line like that, it's
great. You have Andre the Giant making jokes and I don't know how he
was able to do that. That was, of course grace. And you
say, what would have got If you had a choice between the Celine Dion
or beating up a giant, Andre the Giant, I would go with the
I probably would too. I couldn't beat up Andrea the Giant, but that
was very funny. And then of course you have the Wallace Shawn as Zini
tricking him. Is this class the poison? This class the poison? But
that was really very classic, very true. But what I found most interesting
is to show the wonder years that I liked Kevin Arnold is played by Fred
Savage. He has Columbo Peter Falk there with a book, convincing him at
the beginning, Hey, this is a story worth reading. He said,
Oh, is this a lot of kissing in this? Is this kind of
a girl? He said, No, there's pirates, there's violence, so
it's very meta. It's like convincing the male audience. You can like a
rom com and there can be violence too, and there can be cool stuff.
So that I thought was very well done. It was very pure and
everything. Everything was solid. There wasn't great, great acting that I'll knock
your shoes off, but it was funny and it had a sweet romance.
Of course, I hope most men don't have to say, as you wish
to everything the girl wants, but they don't. But that is a good
choice. When you bring up Princess Pride to the people who are familiar with
it, everybody's like, ah, yeah, I like that movie. Right
four, I would say Julia Roberts, I didn't love Pretty Woman as much
as others. I like Julia Roberts much better in My best Friend's Wedding because
in every movie we root for someone, and this is one of the rare
movies that we start rooting for her. But of course you figure, okay,
Julie Roberts, she's you know, all these people have a good friend
and they wait too long and they didn't pull the trigger. The trigger.
Who's gonna beat out Julia Roberts, Cameron Diaz at twenty or twenty one,
could Peter. We're rooting for Julia Roberts and we want her to steal the
guy away. Dermot mulrooney, Right, it's weird that Julia Robs is the
less attractive one at that time. That never happens, and it never happens
that she's doing something bad, and the viewer we shift and we're like,
wait a minute, she's not the goodie too, She's not the one they're
rooting for. Let's we want Cameron Diaz to win. So I think that's
against the cliche and against the norm. So that's something's very cool, and
that's something that I like, Yeah, and I would give it a number
before there. And of course that film shows a you know, a wedding
where I think in real life, I don't know if it's happened to you,
it happened to me that a friend of mine married a cool person.
I was happy for them, never a person I wanted to marry. But
if that did happen, I know they say that ends justify the means.
Would you think there could ever be a situation where if you're really to get
the person you love? In the film, there's a he writes for a
sports magazine and they she sent a fake email. Do you think it would
be okay to do something quote unquote and marl if it means you'll be able
to marry the person you loved? Yeah? No, Right, that's a
hole in the story that we have to gudes fairy tale. Right, But
you don't think it's good to do something totally off the walls. I mean,
I don't think it's good to do it totally off the wall. I
think I think you got to respect the day. There are people that would
throw their grandmothers down the stairs together the person they love. But I think
so too. There's plenty. There's plenty of movies where somebody shows up at
the church and says stop. There's plenty of those. Number three to me
is number one in terms of dating and a movie that's instructive that could give
you good things to take away. But in terms of movie, it's not
the best. Number three is still three hundred Days of Summer, which is
five hundred days of Summer. That's so funny you bring that up. That
is my second favorite. I brought it up on the last thing, and
so many people hadn't seen it. The thing about that movie not to give
away the end or anything like that. They even say, this is not
a love story. There's a story about the beginning. They tell you that
right up. That is a fantastic movie. It's very well crafted, it's
very well done. I think that's great. You bring that up five hundred
I should have said five hundred of Summer. But one of the reasons is
great is because it's very real. It's things that have happened. It's dialogue
I've heard and we all like to play Monday morning quarterback when a relationship doesn't
work out. I tell everyone, it's okay to play Monday morning quarterback.
Don't be Tuesday morning quarterback. Give it up by the next day, because
you're not gonna know if you could have done this, What if I said
this, What if I took her to this restaurant, what if I did
something different? And the truth is again without giving it away. You know,
a person could say they're not ready for this, they're ready for that.
But there's some hard truths that Zoe de Chanel The Summer says that she's
such a sweet character and it's so nice, but she gives it to him
straight at a certain point, and sometimes we do need to hear the real
things in life. We do need to hear the truth. And you could
and when you look back, you could see all the signs that people didn't
pick up all whatever she does give it to him straight, and there is
nothing, and she's delightful, and you could just see again see the movie
worrying and give it away. Could not get a higher recommendation out of me.
I think that movie's fantastic, right, Yeah, I would say five
hundred Day of the Summer. Definitely go see that number two. Some people
might disagree, but say anything with John Cusack. One of the things that
reminds me is that I'm forty five. When I in my early days of
dating, I had to pick up the phone, no cell phone, and
a father would answer the phone, and the father might say, who's this?
What do you want with my daughter? Why should I let you either.
So you had a first obstacle to overcome. Now you're just texting you're
there. There's no obstacles. People don't realize. So there's a scene where
he calls it. Ione Sky is the actress, and John Cusack is Lloyd
Dobbler, a kickboxer. He doesn't really have such a strong life going ahead,
but he has guts, and we talk about how do you get someone
to go out with the all different ways, pick up lines that don't work.
But she on the phone when he finally gets her, she's rejecting him,
and he uses humor and he says why not, and he's funny,
yeah, And she has to look in the yearbook. She doesn't even know
who he was. But because of humor, he still gets and he keeps
it going, keeps it light, and he gets her to go out,
and then anything can happen. You know, it's not always like the movies,
but if you keep it light and keep humoring it, keep determined.
I think that's a great lesson for everybody that Usac had a nice run.
He was in a movie called The Shere Thing that was a great one where
he traveled across the country speak Say Anything is another Cameron Crowe movie. Cameron
Crowe did say Anything. He did Jerry Maguire, he did almost Famous.
He came out of a world of journalism, which to me, you know,
almost Famous is famously based on his life story. A journalist, I
think is able to pick up on nuances of character and behavior and dialogue,
which I think did does lend itself to writing directing rom coms. And some
could argue that humor doesn't go so far, but I have in real life.
I can tell you I've seen guys use humor to impress people and get
dates, and a lot of people if they just give up at one no,
I think if you're persistent, but in respectful way, the way,
there's a way to do it in one conversation instead of just giving up.
I think some women want a guy to show that they're special and show you
know, I got a little metal and a little kickback, not just you
expect me to say yes immediately from just hello. That's okay. So your
number one is Harry Metzone. My number one is when Harry met Sally.
But I would say that the dialogue holds up. I think most people don't
talk to it I would also say I've been to many restaurants in my life.
I don't think in real life a woman would fake an orgasm in a
restaurant like Mike Rand does. But it was a great scene. Well,
I've had an orgasm of cats as Deli, so I'm not sure. The
brisket, Oh my god, it's it's orgasm worthy. This podcast, I
hope is orgasm worthy. We're gonna take a quick break. I'm here with
Alan zeitelnd. We're breaking down some rom coms. We've talked about the women.
I want to talk about the men in a minute. We got to
take a quick break to pay for things like romantic comedies and Pistrami at Kats's
Delhi. We will be back right after this, and we are back.
We talked about Sandler a little bit. Matthew McConaughey had a nice run at
it. It's hard to be that handsome and still be enough of a goofball.
I think, though, the one who had the best run, and
I think he can still do today is Hugh Grant. Hugh Grant had an
amazing run. I mentioned music and lyric which a lot other people hadn't seen
Nodding Hill, the one where he play about a boy. Is that another
Hugh Grant movie? What was the other one that is a nodding noding Hill,
Notting Hill. He had a nice he's he's charming. He has a
little bit of a stutter. He seems not It's tough when you get too
good looking a man, they have to have some flaw so the woman be
like, Okay, I could put up with that. I could deal with
that right now. With Matthew McConaughey, they have one where the flaw is
that he's too much of a player in some movies, or he has trouble
a lot of these movies. Sort of the beat of whether it's a Vince
Vaughan movie or it's Sandler or whatever is. They have a hard time growing
up, the failure to launch kind of thing, and a lot of women
can relate to that frustration. If I could just get them to do if
I could just get them to wear a pair of pants, everything might change
in our relationship. That is a big part of what has appeal, at
least for women romantic comedy as much as the fairy tale. They're always looking
for, how can I change reform fix this guy, and how will that
trickle down in my relationship? And maybe if the guy sitting next to me
while he sees this happen, see he did that and look at what happened.
Oh if the young actors now of who might be in some you know,
rom comes to the future. I think Timothy Shallon may might be in
the future after he plays Bob Dylan. Yeah, that is I you know,
I didn't even know he's playing Bob Dylan. That will go a long
way to uh. And don't be offended if I if I say this term,
I'm gonna say it. Butchers up Chala may a little bit. It
mans him up a little bit. He's a little too delicate, I guess
is the word. I think that's a big that's a huge part to take
on, to take on Bob Dylan and not just do it as like a
pure impression. You know. I think he can pull it off. He's
a fantastic actor. Good for him, you know. And one of the
things that I liked about when Harry met Sally is that it wasn't formulaic.
They didn't start out Usually it's just boy meets girl. There's an obstacle and
then they wind up together. You kind of did think you knew the ending,
but it was still in a different way. And then of course they
have the whole thing in New York City, which I love in New Years.
But to me, I didn't feel bad on New Year's if I didn't
kiss someone, wasn't real. So some people it's a huge deal. I've
seen people crying if they're alone in New Year's and they're not kissing someone.
So I don't know why. And by no means was Billy Crystal then or
what is Billy Crystal ever his career a leading man, he never really did
anything else like that, so to be they didn't, You know, they
put Meg Ryan in a lot of other movies. You clearly could believe that
his character Harry obviously would end up with her. But he didn't get a
whole series of romantic comedies. I didn't think he got another one. I
don't think any women had his poster on as well. That's why I don't
either. But Sam, I mean, he's obviously comedian, and I mean
Jack Black has had more romantic comedies than Billy Crystal did, who arguably did
the best one ever. He went on after that and probably did city slickers
and stuff like that, not romantic comedies. He was buried and loved his
wife, and that sort of the story of all that. I think,
as with the male actors, they either placed them in comedy or a drama,
and then they try to do a few in between, and it's not
like, yeah, Julie robertson, Meg Ryan. I guess Tom Hanks for
a while was the guy there A good point. Yeah, So Tom Hanks
had a long, long run starting probably with nothing in common go way way
back, splash. He was the non threatening good guy, non threatening good
guy, good looking enough. You could see funny, goofy sort of you
know the turf that eventually I think Vince Vaughan probably took over. You could
see that. But then Tom Hanks, you know, you win two Oscars
back to back, you're probably you're not necessarily going back to that. I
said that about Woody Allen, Like Woody Allen, if you go back to
the to the Bananas, take the money and run the sixties seventies with on,
he is as funny as everything. He hasn't made a really traditional funny
movie in forty years. I mean long Clum maybe like hann and her sisters.
You could probably see is a but it's been he really has gone.
And you know, for somebody who puts out a movie every year, which
he pretty much does still to this day, he hasn't gone back to do
that. And you kind of remember how funny what he Allen was as a
writer and to cast himself, which he always did alongside beautiful women, which
to give him credit, he did date a lot of them in real life.
You know, you think that right now in terms of the movie studios,
they just don't think it can really do well in the box office,
so they were reluctant or they don't have the actors that they think are the
right combo of the leads that will make it a smash. You know,
I don't know that is a good point. It is hard to hit that
bullseye and a lot of times, you know, Heaven Can Wait is a
rom com, right, that was a remake. He was at the height
at Warren Batty at that time was at the height of his powers and he
decided, I'm going to remake an all movie and I'm gonna make a rom
comm starring me. But like you kind of have to be willing to do
that. Like I think Bradley Cooper if he wanted to just say, like
I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna write, direct and be in a romantic
it's probably gonna be awesome. He can certainly get it funded, He could
certainly get it made and it would probably be great. You know, I
don't know if he is ever outside of silver Lining's Playbook, which had a
lot of drama in it. I'm not sure he did a chef movie.
Was that a romantic comedy? Not exactly, But it's interesting. You know,
Netflix has to all the boys I've loved before, so they're trying to
do something. They're good, but they're not on anything close to that,
and you have Julie Roberts, Cameron Diaz are aging out, and the male
actors are also aging out of that thing. But you're right, Bradley Cooper
should still do what he wants. I think we cheated Reese Witherspoon out of
a spot on the Pantheon of she was during that same time. So it's
amazing if you look at that run from Harry met Side was what like eighty
eight. Yeah, for about a twenty year period, there were seven actresses
who were top and probably had four or five each. That is a lot
of rom coms. Now we're like, maybe did cut Bake Cake beckon Sale
do one? I don't know. Yeah, it's a dying genre. I
think a little bit of is budget. They're not that expensive to do,
so they're like, well, let's just do it and stream it, or
let's you know, say all the Sandler movies now go right to Netflix.
A lot of the if you don't get the star, that script then goes
to Hallmark. You know, turn it turns into a Christmas movie where they
bang those things out. They have a movie a day on the Hallmark channel
and Christmas season. So it's kind of that you got to hit that sweet
spot, like what does a seventy million dollar budget get me in terms of
a rom com? Because they're risky because they don't translate. That is the
thing about comedies, which is why even if you look at Broadway shows,
plays don't do as well. Because musicals translate any language. You can come
watch somebody singing dance even if you don't speak a word of English. You
can't do that with plays. You can't always do that with romantic comedies or
any comedies. No, it's definitely true. It reminds me one other thing
from from a lot of romantic comedies. Will a guy on a date if
his woman is dishonored and you saw it in five hundred Days of Summer and
then some others, would you be willing to get punched and fight if it's
a first or second date or even longer to show your manhood? Is that?
Do you think it's the guy's obligation to show his man who in a
fight if it gets to that level where the woman is disrespected. Yeah.
No, that's a good point that whoever's writing this is putting themselves in the
in the role of the character that weren't willing to do that. Goodwill Hunting
isn't really a romantic comedy, but that damon wrote those kind of scenes where
they risk getting their ass kick for the for the love of a woman.
I don't think that's funny enough to really qualify as a romantic comedy, but
still it was in there. I think some of the beats though, the
you know, quirky best friend are crazy. You know that always comes up
in every sort of thing, or his slob roommate kind of thing. Jumping
in on him. These are things that we're familiar with, but in a
good way. People understood. They're not like, oh, this is this
typical character like this, it has just gone away. I think it is
lack of imagination in casting, and I think it's I don't know how to
market this, you know, but if you can do comedy as an actor,
and I it's the hardest thing to do. A lot of people can
play the villain, it's the fun thing. But if you can pull off
comedy, it opens a whole world. You know. Kristen Bell never quite
everybody likes her de lifel actress. She never quite moved over to sort of
leading lady romantic comedy status. Did you like there's something about Mary? It
was too much for you. I love there's something there's something about Mary,
but that you know, you had to you had to have Cameron, you
know, that was more of a quest for They don't really it's not like
will they won't lie for a long time. That's I almost put something about
Mary in the same category as Dumb and Dumber, where the chase of the
woman sort of existed to have a whole lot of other plot plot things and
jokes going on, but yeah, something about Mary's fantastic. It's more of
comedy than romantic, because we were saying, yeah, but it has a
lot of great funny times. I think in the rom com the calm part
of it always gets pushed the side and it's more of their own they do.
And we've brought this up on the podcast before a lot of guys,
you know a lot of you know people say, well, how could he
think he could get her? Why would that guy ask? A lot of
women are like, why would he ask me out? I'm not clearly out
of his league. Because we watch romantic comedies and we see it happen.
We see the beautiful girl go for happy Gilmore, we see Jack Black get
the girl. We see all these characters get the girl. And in real
life, so the man you drag him there, he's like, oh,
maybe I can get as crazy as in real life. I see people together
and I'm like, what does this person seeing this person? But it's their
life. I don't know. Maybe there's something that you can is not so
evident. What's the movie with a I brought Christen Belt, Jason Siegle,
and Milaicunis, what is that what's that movie? Oh yeah, sagle,
Uh it was. It's usually on the top. It's escaping. For the
second though, we get some help from the gallery in here. What is
that movie? I'm gonna stall while he googled, how can we forget?
That's not a good sign that I forget the name of the movie. I
also forgotten. But it is good. That is goods on vacation and yeah,
we're gonna say, I'm gonna this is gonna do. The audience is
screaming at us listening to this right now. Sorry about that. We'll come
back to me. Definitely could have been more if she wanted to. She
did a couple of Timberlake, those kind of things. Yeah, Timberlake I
think is too charming, smooth talents to slick. He's too slick to be
to be the rom com guy. You need to see a flaw in your
rom com guy. But one we are leaving out he's turned into a punchline
now is will Smith. Will Smith obviously had a long, long run as
being that just the right amount of goofy. He was in Hitch. He
was in hitch he could do a lot of things. Everybody liked him.
Hold on I'm stalling while I look up this me Lacunas Uh Jason movie.
It is called Forgetting Sarah Marshall. We've forgotten Sarah Marshall movie. That's a
great movie. It is. Russell Brand is great in that movie. If
you have enough characters and you bring them together, and you do that.
Two romantic comedies, and these are going to age people out if you have
not seen them. They came out I think the same year. They also
have the same beats to them, and they might be two of my if
I had to make a list of my twenty favorite movies. They are both
in my twenty favorite movies. Broadcast News and Working Girl they are. And
in both those movies you're taking guys who are not particularly seen as funny.
In Working Girl you're taking Harrison Ford at the peak of his Harrison fordness with
Melanie Griffith, And in Broadcast News you're taking William Hurt, who could not
have been a less humorous person. You had the Albert Brooks sidekick and everything,
but William Hurt had to play the beats in that character right. He
had to be a he had to play it straight to allow all the comedy
to happen to allow the craziness of Holly Hunter's character. Those movies came out
within a year and a half of each other. Melanie Griffith was nominated,
Ally Hunter was nominated. The movies were nominated, didn't win, but that
was part of that great era. I wonder if so is it a thing
that in twenty twenty four are people still going on dates and wanting to see
a romantic comedy in the theater. Maybe they think people aren't. That is
another part of it. So I don't think that the studios can gamble on
people going to the theater. Made they know they're going to go to the
theater because they need the imax, they need the comic book movies, they
need the superhero movies, they need the action movies, because you don't really
need that on the big screen. That's a good point. A lot of
these are ending up on Apple. They're ending up as or if you you
know you want to write this. A lot of the talented writing it wants
to have a series on HBO. But I think what's interesting that Adam Sandler
in fifty first Dates. For any relationship that works, you wonder we always
wonder what didn't go right, but we don't always wonder what did go right.
So in that film, he doesn't know what went right, so he
tries the next day and the next day kind of like ground out day,
to try to see, well, what did work, And sometimes we always
it's hard to know what did and sometimes we'll never know, and it just
sometimes it just clicks, and that's it. They you brought up. I
brought up the television thing. David E. Kelly, who went on and
made a bunch of movies still I think, married to Michelle Pfeiffer, so
props to him. He created Ally McBeal and Ally McBeal one not to get
into television one Best Drama and Best Comedy in two different years. I can't
even believe what a bullseye that is to pull off. And you forget how
groundbreaking that show was, to the point where Robert Downey probably owes his career
now to Ally McBeal, letting him, at at the peak of his bad
boy behavior, couldn't get insured on any movie. Nobody could do it.
They allowed him to play like a little romantic interest sidekick of Ally McBeal.
That sort of made him trustworthy in the Hollywood industry again. You know,
No, that is something because it's a way of you know, getting back.
We'll see if there are other actors that can do that. I wonder
if we'll see some now try to get into that. A lot of actors
that have never been comedy want to do that, and that's a vehicle to
try to get in. We might see some series or I think Netflix is
going to do a lot where it's just straight to streamer that you have trilogies
or books that are based on that. And they also want to go at
the ya crowd of you know, high school age because a lot of these
classics say anything, it's high school age, but the actors, of course
are older, and they're like, yeah, the actor's really twenty five,
but we're going to say it's high school kind of like Grease in that.
But I think we might see resurgence, but it may not be in movies
in the theater. It might be for streaming. You know. There's also
been this run of girl gang comedies, Bridesmaids, Perfect those series like that
where there is sort of this very side tangential romantic interest, but it's not
about that. It's about a bunch of girls who oddly don't need the guys
to be funny and have a good time. They always have to bring one
guy in at the end because somebody's studio is probably like, you need a
romantic interest or whatever. But a lot of that, a lot of the
comedy air has been taken in a good way by a lot of those films.
It's interesting. Someone said Swingers is the best bromance movie, but it's
not quite a romantic comedy because the female character that he likes only comes out
at the end. Same thing, Yeah, same thing. And I went
back and I watched that. That's funny, bring that up. I watched
that the scene when he tries to leave a message on the girl's answer,
which was again, doesn't date them. That wouldn't happen now. It doesn't
date the movie now because you're like, but you can listen to that,
like, oh my god, going down in flames. Now, that would
be incessant texting or whatever. It would hold up. But yeah, that's
a great movie. That's a bro movie too. But there always is a
hope, even at the romance, even Harley's Girl girl group comedies, that
somebody has either been hurt, they're trying to get over hurt or they're trying
to find hope again, and all that is related to romance. And then
I wonder, with my big fact Greek wedding and a lot of wedding movies,
it seems like there may be a little less wedding movies. Is that
maybe they think that, you know, it's a little too conservative to say
like you're not complete if you're not married, and maybe they're trying to say
like it so, which is sad, because weddings are great set pieces.
You know, you go back to the Godfather, great set pieces for characters,
conversation, action, all of it. As their funerals, you know,
Hugh Grant for weddings at a funeral, that's another one. Anything where
you bring a collection of characters, relatives, personalities, situations together that can
lead to chaos is always ripe for comedy, and sometimes out of that storm
comes romance. Have you ever been to a wedding where when they said,
if anyone has a problem speaking now when someone says something, I have been
to that. My cousin was at that point in his own wedding and he
passed out. He was hungover and dehydrated from the from the night before,
at his at his, at the at the rehearsal dinner, and it got
to that point as anybody, and he keeled over and so it didn't.
That marriage did not last. So that that did it. Yeah, the
traditional like waight stop. I have been to weddings where I knew somebody in
the wedding either had dated wanted to do. There was some kind of energy
going on, weird in the crowd. I've I've been around that. Yeah,
that's because I always well, I've been some crazy weddings, but I've
never been to one where there was a ruckus like that. But I just
wondered what would be like in real life to be that. But you're right,
it does play because there's all that stress and that expectation. And that's
why one of the greatest things about one Hundred Days of Summer, which I
recommend everyone see, is that in the end they have expectation and reality by
side. I know and you see that, and it's so jarring that that
happens in romance but also in our job, and we always have these expectations
and then some people can't have movies, they cannot process somewhere they can enjoy
them if they don't wrap up in a neat little bow. People, and
if you have not seen this movie, cover your ears. I bring up
La La Land a Lot, which is not a romantic comedy, although it
is very funny and it's certainly romantic and it's musical, doesn't wrap up in
a neat little package the way everybody wants. And that leaves a lot of
times the audience feeling empty that they needed to go exactly like this, or
I can enjoy it, that's lazy movie. Well. We give out cards
after and some people write, I want a happy ending, and there's something
I want happy ending. I don't want so and so to die, I
don't want this to happen. And they're influenced by the cards. They cannot
take any chances on something like this not happening to me. Continue, I'm
going to hand here. A lot of people only like a happy ending.
It bothers me if it just feels inauthentic, if it feels totally false,
like the ending is something how it could never be. Like someone hates someone
and they totally change and they forgive them for absolutely no reason, or there's
no connection and suddenly they have a connection and wraps up too easily for me,
when it's inauthentic, that's not a good way to end. So for
me, if the ending is all well, I don't care if it's happier.
And again, you don't know the level of risk that some of these
studios are willing to take is not that high when I'm sure a lot of
writers, directors produce just like and then we're gonna do this twist and whoever's
writing in the check for that movie or whoever is distributing with that, No,
we're not. We're not doing that. It needs to go like this,
this and this. These two characters need to fall in love and that's
it, happily ever after, or we can't put it out because there's a
percentage of the of the viewing audience that will, especially in a rotten Tomatoes
yelp world, they'll be like, No, way, that sucked. I
hated that it didn't give me the whole warm feeling that I need. No,
I think that's definitely true. But I think that some of the ones
I picked through these, of course, don't necessarily have appanding because I think,
for me, I think movies should entertain, but it's also good to
be educational. It's also good for someone to watch a movie and say,
you know, hey, maybe that could work for me, or that makes
sense. And I'm not the only one that's going through There's a lot of
people think they're failures and if they have a messed up relationship that didn't work
out, it's only happened to them and they feel bad about themselves, and
it could make them feel a little bit better to see, well, it
happens other people too, and maybe I could learn from it and it's not
the end of the world. Yeah. I like movies that are like this
is the most accurate in capturing real feelings of what goes on in a real
relationship. The angst, the worry, the pain, the stress, the
hope. All of those ingredients to me. But you know, I have
imagination and I can see that not everybody wants that. People are like,
you got two hours of my time, I got my popcorn, I got
my big soda, and you better make me cry and then make me smile.
So I think people should watch Swingers to know they never have to leave
any a woman. Yeah, I know there are lessons to be learned.
I agree with that there's lessons in behavior, but there's there's lessons in feelings.
How you process the movie that I that I that is the opposite of
this, the movie that that I hate in terms of it. It pretends
that it is it is dealing with real feelings, but I don't feel it
is. What is the the divorce movie with Vince Vaughan and where the breakup?
The breakup? Yeah, who's the word, Jenniferison Vince On. I
hate that movie. I don't think they would ever be together. I don't
think he's like, it's not fun none of None of it is funny to
me. None of it is like there were no redeeming funny. Yeah,
yeah, there are no redeeming qualities in their relationship. You would never want
them to be together or get back together. You know. I don't understand
the appeal to that movie. And I know some people like it because some
people like everything Vincewan does. To me, I liked it not because it's
just Vin Swan. I think it was a little bit gutsy. It was
dark. It was not a pleasing normal one. I think it was.
I think he's just a dick, you know. I think he's just like
there's no reading qualities for like video games so much just whatever. I just
thought he was nice to her. I think there was there was really an
underlying feeling of like hate and anger in there that that that I'm just like,
I don't want them. I don't want to see them together. I
don't hope. I do not. There's nothing here that leads me to believe
I hope these two work out. I understand that. I thought it was
a It was a different kind of movie that you see that says you know
you can you can be cordial, and that you can you can end things
and it doesn't have to be the end of the world. I think a
lot of people wanted different things and wanted like amazing high moments, but then
they get back. They like meet at the end, but they not at
the other the end, they just say hi and that's it. I thought
they were like meeting for coffee or somewhere. He's like, I'm thinking,
at the end of the movie, you know their friends and nothing's gonna happen.
I think that what I think that movie helped prevent suicides. I think
it was like, you can get divorced and it's not down to the world.
See, I get I thought that it comes back around. Sorry if
you haven't seen, it's been out long enough. No spoilers on the breakup
that we're supposed to believe, like, oh, they see each other again
and maybe this will work out now, I think, and then you know
it's not. I think my take was that it's not going to work out,
but that you know, it's not the end of the world, and
they'll see other people and don't you know, don't set the at ledge of
the roof, but some people do. I'm sure you know there are people
that are locked in one relationship and ends and they're totally desponded and they feel
they can't go. Well, I'm somebody who doesn't like in Castaway, how
quickly Helen Hunt's character moves on. Well, the volleyball was very sex That
was sexy volleyball. I know he moved on to the volleyball. I want
her to wait a little longer. He's only gone like a year. She's
already like remarried. Right, that's a little a little hasty. What's the
how long is it? What's the limit you think when someone could go for
the next relationship two months after death one year in full black. That's what
I would want, uh I. I would just feel bad for the next
guy because the girls is going to be like like, listen, the best
one's gone now I feel bad for I feel bad for my successor. But
I think it's got to be. It's got to be at least a year.
I think it also depends on the circumstance. But yeah, no,
I want a year in full black. Would you want to see Will Ferrell
do a comedy where he picks up girls at chanerals? He said he was
gonna do that in one of the films. This guy just says he's gonna
do that. See. Will Ferrell can't be the leading man in a rom
com could be a sidekick. Yeah, He's always got to be the sidekick,
Which is weird because could could Will Ferrell have played a similar character because
he does have the acting chops and he does the serious roles. Steve Carrell
has pulled it off. But again, you know, a forty year old
virgin. The girl at the end is a little bit of secondary. It's
a bromance. Will Ferrell has done a lot of romances. I don't consider
the Anchorman movies to be romances because they're they're so they're playing characters and their
ridiculous. Could Will Ferrell play a character similar to Harry met Sally now,
I think he probably could. I think that's the role picking up chicks at
funerals. It's not a bad movie, though, Yeah, that could be.
I want to see Will Ferrell do that. I think that could be
a hit. I think it could be a hit too. All right,
this is fun. We covered a lot of ground, We gave a lot
of I can't believe you came in here with five hundred days of summer.
I'm the only one who preaches that. People who last time I did this,
which was years ago, were like, nobody's seen this. Why he
keep talking about it? I love it. I tell everyone in gen Z
go see it. It's very instructive. Goo see it. Watch it.
It's tream it. It's very instructive and help. My favorite movie you know
movies enough to know this is I think it was Noah Bombback's first movie,
Kicking and Screaming. Have you ever seen that movie? That is one again?
That is a little bit romance, life after college or whatever. But
the way he handles the relationship that he wants to have with is it Olivia
Dabo one of those one of the care It's not even like the major subplot
of the movie is just like the Greatest movie for me. I love the
writing of that movie. I like the beats of that movie. I like
everything, not the Will Ferrell kicking and screaming. No Bomback kicking and screaming.
And he co wrote Barbie, I think the main lesson from any ram
coming anything is that people should learn in all their relationships at least take a
little accountability. It's not one hundred percent of the other person's fault. It's
at least maybe five percent your fault. At least. All right, tell
everybody where they can find you, and film fury, all right, film
free podcasts. You can check it out wherever you get your podcasts. And
my name is Alan Zeitlin. Check me out on line and hope you enjoy
it. Thank you. This was fun. I like doing this a little
lighter than some of the subjects we have recently gotten into around here. We
got a new batchel of listener letters coming up, not the next episode of
the episode after that, so coming down the pike, please shoot us an
email. Great love debatedmail dot com for me Alan or anything else you want
to talk about or to give feedback on, or tell us how much you
loved five hundred days of Summer. Please like, share, follow, and
review this podcast and film Fury. After all of this time ten years or
so, your reviews mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem because, as always
at the Great Love Debate, we never stopped making love. See you next
time the Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate. De Great Love
Debate. It's a Great Love Debate.