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Finally we got her on it talking
about potatoes, and I asked my crinklicut

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theory, not what your country can
do for you, what you can do

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for your country. Mister Garbatscheff,
tear down this wall, read my lips.

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I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again.

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I did not have sexual relations for
that woman. It's the Ricochet Podcast

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with Peter Robinson and Rob Long.
I'm James Lylacs. The day we talked

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to our old friend from the National
Review, Jack Fower, talking about Buckley

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to the other one. So let's
have ourselves a podcasting. You also say

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that you were invited by a friend, Verry Weisse, my friend Barry Weiss.

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So this friend works for Twitter or
what is her? She's a journalist.

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So you're in. This is a
threesome. Welcome everybody. This is

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the Ricochet Podcast, and this is
episode number six hundred and thirty three.

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And I don't know I'm emphasizing those
words as I do other than you know.

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Here we are, we're having fun, we're together. It's me,

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it's Peter, it's Rob and you
know it's Ricochet. And if you haven't

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been there, you gotta go there
ricochet dot com and find your place in

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the most stimulating and civil conversations on
the right side of the web. Gentlemen,

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good day, How are you sorry? I was gone last week,

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but not sorry at all. I
was luxuriating in the White Sands and oh

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knock it off. Okay, sorry, I went White Sands of Mexico though,

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yes, and you were not kidnapped, No I was. I was

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not down there for some resculations.
I was down there to enjoy myself and

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while my wife played at tennis.
It's our little indulgence of the year.

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Where where were you? A ground
partodium in the north of Cancoon. You

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got to bounce around for about an
hour, and the just awful roads to

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get there, and when you do, you're astonished that they built this place

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where they there's a two lane road
coming to it, and how did they

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get everything from there to here?
It's an enormous thing. You can't figure

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out the economics. You can't figure
out how much they make your white sands

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were on the Pacific or on the
Sea of Cortez, on the Atlantic party,

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Oh on the Atlantic? Okay,
sorry, so I'm happy and I'm

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back now in the snow and all
that and the rest of it the world

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turns on. We had this week
some interesting congressional hearings. I think.

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Usually I don't say that. Usually
it's just for somebody to get up and

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blather away and nothing ever happens,
and nobody ever gets called for their misinformation.

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But there were two of them on
Twitter. Is it the most important

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thing in the world. No,
but it's Jermaine the COVID hearings. I

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think that matters. Let me know
what you guys think. First of all,

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Twitter, Rob, I know,
loves Twitter, can't stay off it,

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and he was glued I'm sure to
every single second at Shellenberger and Matt

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Taibe were interrogated by some of the
and I shouldn't be at Hominem, but

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some of the dumbest box of rocks
I've seen exposed lating from a government position

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in a long time. That sounds
like a question to you, Rob,

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Yeah, I did. I'm sorry, was mute? You know? Uh?

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I Actually I have a hard time
getting too exercised over the Twitter thing,

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and whenever I say that, the
people to get really mad at me.

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But I just like I get it. I just feel like we I

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mean I feel the idea that Twitter, Um, I mean, look,

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it's bad, but they did,
and I'm glad we know, but they

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did. And I'm glad that people
who's immediate general, Who's the they in

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your statement, Um, the people
running Twitter at the time, not the

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government. Um. Well yeah,
I guess so, I just I just

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kind of feel like it's a it's
it is one more indication that I think

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it's fair. Um. That is, um, it seems seems to be

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exercising the left a lot. But
something that people in the Conservatives I've done

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all along, which is that the
the news that we are getting is often

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shaped by the priorities of the people
who are choosing what to put on the

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front page or page twenty nine,
um, or what to shadow ban and

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went not to. I mean,
thus it has always been. But this

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is a difference of the government.
This is a difference of the government talking

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to the people who do the disseminating
and say thou shalt not amplify this viewpoint.

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Well, I mean, I guess, I guess. My argument is

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this is that the government didn't coerce
them. These were these are these were

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Um, that's that's not so clear. I don't know like like I feel

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to me like these are these were
all already in the tank they're called.

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It's as if like the Biden deministration
doesn't have to coerce The New York Times

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to print its nonsense. They agree, nice little social network you got here,

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A shame if anything happened to it. That's right, that's right.

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Maybe maybe the people were leaning into
this, but at the same time,

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who knows what they might have done
in a more free flowing exchange of information

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when they don't takes over Twitter.
He discovered is that his predecessors have indeed

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been censoring all kinds of political points
of view and scientific points of view.

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Jay Botacharia, we now know by
Barry Weiss is the one who broke the

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story that Jay had been on some
blocklist that kept him from Okay, all

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that is true. Elon lets us
know by releasing files to Barry Weiss and

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Matt Taiebee and Michael Schllenberger. I
think there may have been one or two

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others, but those three for sure, and Matt Taiebe and Michael Schllenberger get

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called to testify before the new Committee
on It's being called the Committee on the

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weaponization of the government. I'm sure
it has a more a boring formal name,

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all right, And they are submitted
to hectoring and the most ignorant,

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demeaning kinds of questions you can possibly
imagine, or at least I couldn't have

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imagined it from the Democrats on the
committee, particularly Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who

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said, isn't it right that you
shouldn't accept spoon fed chair picked information if

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it's likely to be incomplete? In
other words, you, Matt Taiebe,

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and you, Michael Schellenberger, should
not have accepted this leak from Elon Musk.

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And they both just looked at her
and said, no, that's not

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the way you're no yes or no
yes, or it was unbelievable. And

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then this other I can't remember the
other one's name. The other there was

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another member of Congress who was trying
to make us look as though they were

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in it for the money, or
she said, and who's this Barry Weiss

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person? She'd never clearly never heard
of Barry Weiss. I looked at it.

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I was so astonished. I looked
it up. Debbie Wasserman Schultz received

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one hundred and twenty nine thousand votes
when she was reelected. I am pretty

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sure that that is that Barry gets
a bigger number of readers on her substack.

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Every single day we had more podcast
listeners. Yeah, substack. What

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is substack is what is looking at
like this? This this amusing little,

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trifling, meaningless detail that arose in
the so the life would So this is

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this is what's left on the beach
after the Democratic tied, after the years

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when they controlled the House. It's
over, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz hasn't adjusted.

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She doesn't know what a fool,
how hectoring, how demeaning the idea

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that any citizen, let alone too
very bright, extremely skilled journalists, should

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be subjected to bullying by some two
bit member. It's just anyway, I

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thought it was a it was delicious, but be it was kind of shocking

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that DeBie, the lack of self
knowledge, the feeling that she could go

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into these hearings knowing as little as
she did, and assuming, just assuming

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that the state that you ought to
abide by government censorship would would somehow elicit

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immediate obedience all that. It was
kind of shocking what they've been thinking all

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along, and now finally gets exposed. That was my take, James,

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Yeah, pretty much. I'm just
curious about the fact that a again,

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as we go before, they're idiocy. What is this Substeck? What is

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Twitter? What are all these things? Because they're they're utterly out of touch

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with the information dissemination mechanisms of today, and they don't feel the need to

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be in touch with them because they
are important, powerful people in the government,

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etc. And they the intellectual incuriosity
of them is extraordinary. The defense

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of the state to ferret out sources, which seems to be a break with

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what we assume to be a bipartisan
tradition about protecting sources. We tossed out

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the window immediately because we have to
get to the bottom of this, which

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is what exactly what did they think
was trying to be accomplished here? That

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there were this there was a band
of well funded, vociferous idiots who were

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determined to make America consume Horse,
d Wurmer and Bleach by some devious means

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in order to accomplish something. I
don't know none of that. I mean,

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what they think the other side was
trying to do is still a mystery

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to me. What we wanted at
the time was a full discussion of what

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was happening. And every time we
started to go in ways that we're not,

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you know, officially approved, all
of a sudden the guardrail snapped out

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of place and we were put back
on our in the proper lane. Now

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why was this done? One might
say that spending too much time and attention

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on the Wuhan Veriological Institute, spending
too much time looking at the way it

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gain a function. Research was offshore
from United States to other countries like well,

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I don't know, China. That
spending too much time looking at eco

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health, and too much time looking
at the where the money went where and

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who do you know? Finding the
fingerprints of doctor Faucine here and there was

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inconvenient and unnecessary because what we really
had to do was to look forward.

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And all that stuff doesn't matter.
Well, all that stuff mattered a lot,

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It mattered then, it mattered now. And the idea somehow that the

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left, the institutional left, would
throw up all of these barriers to a

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free inquiry to finding out these things
because of oh, I don't know,

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xenophobia, I don't know, because
the wrong people might say that it's China's

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fault and then go attack somebody in
New York on the subway. We were

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prevented from having the discussion we needed
to have then, which in the hopes

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that it would all blow over and
that we would continually move forward, there'd

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be an intellectual pandemic, amnesty,
and nobody would suffer any consequences. That's

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what they wanted to do at the
time. They wanted us to have as

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keep us from having discussion on all
manner of things, from the educational impact

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of the lockdowns to the economic I
mean all of it. We needed to

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have a robust discussion. We needed
to have a conversation first and foremost about

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the Great Barrington Declaration, not because
it's some sort of manifesto of wild eyed

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bomb throwing maniacs out there, but
because it's an alternative to doing what we

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did, which was wrong. So
the idea that now at this point they

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are this angry about somebody coming out
and saying this was done, it is

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stunning to me and tells you what
they will do without ear, without question,

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without hesitation, if something else comes
along and it's anywhere near in the

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ballpark of what COVID was. That's
the end I'm done for the day.

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Thank you very much. Have the
deal. There's one piece of this that

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I want. I'd like I want
to make sure that Rob saw Rob's busy,

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but I happen to know one of
the projects Rob is working on involves

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a long form treatment of what happened
during COVID. All right, So CDC

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Director Robert Redfield testified, and he
was asked if it was likely that American

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tax paper. You remember that they
covered up the notion. We weren't even

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allowed to ask whether the virus leaked
from a lab. Now it seems more

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likely than not that it did leak
from a lab. What was it doing

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in the lab? It was being
developed and gain of function research? Who

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was funding that? And doctor Redfield
was asked if it was we, the

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American taxpayers who funded it? And
Redfield said, quote, I think we

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did, not only from the NAH, but from the State Department and from

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the Department of Defense. Closed quote. The sitting director of CDC at the

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time of the outbreak is now on
record as saying that money from the American

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taxpayers was used by doctor Fauci and
others to create the virus. Right,

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it's staggering and they knew, or
they don't. They you can't know the

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future, but they anticipated and they
were concerned about what every every sentient adult

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knows, which is that these things
never work, like somebody's gonna walk out

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of the lab with the virus and
not know it. Right. They knew

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that. So they stopped doing it
here in the United States, which they

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used to, and they said,
well, where can we do it where?

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Nothing where you know, look a
big deal. So it happens where's

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the great player. That's exactly right. And that was, by the way,

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that but that is an attitude to
a human life that is shared um

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enthusiastically by the communist government in China. So but but the the in the

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age of blunder, which we're in
now, they thought, which is something

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that every person notes, that there
will that they could do this and it

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wouldn't escape the lab. And that
to me is what's the most sort of

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you know, shocking. There's a
I wrote a comment this last week.

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There was a guy on January eleventh, I think, I mean, they

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run this year contractor for the FAA, and they're going through all the horrible

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house of cards computer code that kind
of runs our aviation system, which everybody

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agrees is at least two decades out
of dates, two decades out of but

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it's it's worse than two decades out
of date. It's two decades out of

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date with a bunch of patches.
You know, it's like, it's horrible,

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right, So he's it's one guy, by the way, he's in

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a room with a bunch of other
people. One guy, by mistake,

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deletes some code for the norm something
somebody that the I forget what it's called.

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But it's the alert system that all
the bottles everybody uses, and every

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single flight is grounded for two hours
in America. Happened this year? Yes,

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yes, um had it happens nine
to eleven. Now, imagice being

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that guy. You know that feeling
like we've all we've all had that feeling,

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that moment where you think, oh
no, what just happened? Didn't

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happen? I left a bag with
my iPad and my computer and a bunch

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of things on the LA subway once
and because I was i'd take it for

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the first time, and I left
the train And just as I realized that

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i'd done, I turned and I
saw the doors closed and the train go

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away, and I had that feeling. It's not the same thing as grounding

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every plane, but someone's always going
to do something like that. And when

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they designed a virus, this is
actually what's amazing. They designed a virus

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that was perfectly, perfectly created so
that you could have it for a week

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and not know it and spread it. Um And so somebody had it for

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a week and didn't know it and
spread it probably in October maybe or some

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version of it, because guess what, you know, there's always some reason

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you have to run out to the
lab and you don't. You don't do

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the shower or change your own set. People just make these mistakes and um

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and the like. The compounding problem
we had was we had sort of a

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nervous breakdown, a panic attack among
the policymakers and the media, and then

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we had a terrified you know,
the guy in the fa a reaction from

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the people who knew exactly what had
happened and how it had happened, and

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you had this sort of horrible perfect
storm of people lying. And the irony

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00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:14,000
is is that that everybody in America
kind of knew the truth, maybe not

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the details of the truth. By
June, we knew that you know,

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we're all going to get it,
and some of us are going to get

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00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:23,080
it, and it's gonna be bad. But those people we kind of can

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anticipate, and some people are gonna
get it. It's gonna be fine.

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And all America, all people knew
the truth. That was what I think

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was the weirdest thing is that the
dry run of the Orwellian nightmare which we

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ran, I think in during COVID, it failed for the authorities. And

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so I'm I guess what I want
I'm saying about the Twitter. What I'm

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just to rephrase what I was saying
at the beginning of the Twitter lea.

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I am more interested in having a
thorough, vicious, merciless, relentless series

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of hearings and trials for people who
lied. I want to make it so

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painful the idea of lying to the
American public again, so painful to the

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people who did it that they never
do it again. The only way to

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restore trust in the system is for
everybody to admit how bad this system was.

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I agree, I agree, And
here's if I may. This is

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one reason I'm so pleased by what
Yes, I know we've got to get

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to a spot, but I want
to say this. This is one reason

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I am so pleased that Rob is
doing what he's doing. And before this

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podcast is over, he's going to
have to tease it to the extent of

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a sentence or two. The government
failed. People like Fauci told us whoppers,

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But the government always fails, and
they're always telling us whoppers. What

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00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:51,720
to my mind was distinctive about this
catastrophe was that the press covered up for

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00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:56,480
them. Yeah, and what you're
doing is one step, it's one something,

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00:17:56,759 --> 00:18:00,440
and because you do this stuff,
well, it'll be a big something

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00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,359
toward the recovery of the of the
duties of the press. It's it's it

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00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:07,519
is an after action report that'll tell
the truth, and it'll tell the truth

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00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:11,519
about the press as well. Right, the press covered up for them because

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00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:14,880
they love this new set of rules, and they loved working from home,

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and they loved ordering the door to
exactly right, exactly right. They enjoyed

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00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,960
being the people who are the best
in following the rules. But hey,

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00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,759
you know, folks, now you
know, of course it's done. I'm

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00:18:23,759 --> 00:18:26,680
sorry, is it? COVID isn't
over. According to the people on Reddit,

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00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,440
we're still in the pandemic phase.
Now the rest of us are out

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00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,000
and about in the world, which
means we're going to restaurants. However,

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the thing is is you can't always
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home. You don't have to stay at

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home anymore, but sometimes it's nice
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esthetically appealing the meal at home.
Well, that's where Factor comes in.

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dot com, of course, and
we do thank Factor for sponsoring this the

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Ricochet Podcast. And now we welcome
back to the podcast our old friend Jack

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00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:45,279
Follower, Senior director of Strategic Partnerships
for American Philanthropic Senior Fellow the Center for

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00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,079
Civil Society, and the co host
of the Victor Davis Hanson Show. He's

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00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,920
with us to talk about the great
James L. Buckley, who just yesterday

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00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:57,119
celebrated his one hundredth birthday. Welcome
Jack, James, my friend, I

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00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:00,480
thank you for having me. Can
I just say too things before we get

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00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:06,200
into it? One? No,
it has to be two. The first

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00:21:06,319 --> 00:21:10,319
is, you know, I don't
read ads like you just read on Factor

291
00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:15,079
and we have a toenail fungus cure
heads slash Victor Victor dot com. So

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00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:21,720
I'm envious of the kind of advertising
you have on this terrific podcast. You

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00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,839
know, I'm a Ricochet subscribe.
And the second thing is, of course

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00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:29,799
being with you, James and Rob
and Peter. Even though I'm looking out

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00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:33,880
the window, I'm seeing my neighbor
has a dumpster out there. I have

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00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:37,400
visions of National Review cruises in my
head. I can even smell pina coladas

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00:21:37,519 --> 00:21:41,119
somehow or other. So it's great
to be with you. It's good.

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00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:42,759
It's been a long time, so
we would like to talk about what you've

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00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:47,119
been doing and all the rest of
that stuff. But mister Buckley, Yeah,

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00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:48,920
let's say somebody said Buckley. I've
heard that name before. I was

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00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,880
talking with some Canadians in Mexico last
week and I mentioned Buckley, and three

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00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,480
out of the four of them all
knew who William F. Buckley wants.

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00:21:56,519 --> 00:21:57,920
But really, still, that's good. Yeah, it is good. So

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00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,920
the name persists. But tell us
about James L. Buckley. Well,

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00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:07,559
Jim was the older brother of Bill
and as Buckley's go well as and I

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00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:14,559
know Peter knows this because he's interviewed
Jim Buckley a few times on uncommon knowledge.

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00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,920
Jim was not a smoker, which
is why he's one hundred years old.

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00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:25,720
He's quiet man, healthy, very
dignified in many ways, very different

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00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:30,680
from Bill. Not that don't don't
play off the dignified as if Bill is

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00:22:30,759 --> 00:22:37,200
undignified. But Bill Buckley was an
impish man, a mixer, stirred it

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00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:41,720
up, he created a movement.
And Jim was a very quiet man.

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00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:45,680
He just wanted to be a He's
a Yale graduate, Yale Law School.

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00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:49,440
He just wanted to be a country
lawyer. But the fickle finger of fate

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00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:57,160
decided in the mid nineteen sixties that
Jim had much more in public service to

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00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,680
perform unbeen owns to him. And
I can tell that story quickly, James,

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00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,640
if you'd like to hear it,
we would, okay. Well,

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00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:11,200
you know, after the debacle of
the nineteen sixty four presidential election where Barry

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00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:17,160
Goldwater was just devastated, and there's
an important Buckley train of events that happens

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00:23:17,279 --> 00:23:21,640
quickly in nineteen sixty five. A
year later, Bill Buckley runs for mayor

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00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:25,880
of New York and of course he
does not win, but he does better.

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00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,799
He does better than might have been
expected, right, much much better.

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00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:33,079
Queens and Staten Island especially, there
were people who loved him Trump Territory,

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00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,720
you know, from the outer Barrows. He did remarkably well the following

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00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:41,480
year. Now there's a Conservative party
in New York, an official line.

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00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:45,680
A man named Paul Adams runs for
governor against Nelson Rockefeller, and I forget

326
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,240
who the hell the Democrat was,
but he pulls a significant amount of votes.

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00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:52,400
So the feeling is, Wow,
this party. There's some element here

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00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:59,640
that maybe we can either you know, outpoll the Republicans or really make the

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00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,799
Republicans more conservative. I think that
was the larger goal. Sixty eight election,

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00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:10,039
Jacob Javitt's Liberal Republican is up for
reelection and Jim Buckley, at Bill's

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00:24:10,079 --> 00:24:15,480
instigation, decides to throw his hat
in the ring. Already Bill's instigation,

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00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:19,799
though I think it's recurring. Well, Bill said, you know, I

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00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,440
did my duty. I ran for
mayor in sixty five. I think it

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00:24:23,559 --> 00:24:30,279
literally the phrase was it's your turn
to Jim, and Jim said, I

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00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,359
will run as long as I'm not
going to win. He understood that this

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00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:40,440
is to be a symbolic event,
and it was symbolic but powerful because when

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00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,240
the votes were counted, and this
is the nineteen sixty eight US Senate election,

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00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,519
Conservative Party coundidate Jim Buckley pulls over
a million votes, So people are

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00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:57,319
shocked by this outcome. Nineteen seventy
is another election coming up because Bobby Kennedy,

340
00:24:57,559 --> 00:25:03,400
new York Senator, is a assassinated. He's replaced by a Republican Charles

341
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,440
Goodell, who is the father of
the current NFL commissioner, by the way,

342
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,880
but he was sort of a conservative
ish congressman from from the Buffalo area.

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00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:18,160
So he's up. Now he's going
to run for that seat officially having

344
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,960
been appointed Dick Ottinger, who's a
liberal Republican liberal excuse me, Democrat congressman

345
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,559
as a Democrat nominee. So you
have two liberals because despite being quote unquote

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00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:33,200
conservative in the House, Goodell immediately
went left. So so the powers that

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00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:37,839
be thought, you know what,
now, Jim, a conservative could win

348
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:44,119
this race. A conservative could could
get a plurality of votes, right,

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00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,559
And that's exactly what happened. Jim
Buckley decided he was never going to run

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00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:52,759
again. One and done. I'm
not doing it again, except when when

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00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:55,160
it was put to him, well
you know you could win, they could

352
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,160
win, Yeah, I could,
you know what I think I can,

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00:25:57,279 --> 00:26:03,000
and so he ran. He was
such a Jim Buckley is the most dignified

354
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:10,200
and wonderful man Christian. His brother
jim brother Bill called him the sainted junior

355
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,240
Senator at well, that's after he
won. But he had such dignity which

356
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:18,240
was such a counterpoint to the chaos
in New York of nineteen seventy. And

357
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,440
Jim is not a glad handler.
You know, he will not confuse him

358
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,039
on the campaign trail would say Bill
Clinton or anybody. You know, He's

359
00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:30,200
not a backslapper. But he was
the man for the moment and the people.

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00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,799
There was a there was any I
commit a little bit. I could

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00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:38,200
add, just a little bit of
color because I was a kid in upstate

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00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,599
New York in nineteen seventy. I
think I was in ninth grade, as

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00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:47,680
I recall, and here's the situation
in New York State in nineteen seventy.

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00:26:48,599 --> 00:26:52,400
My father gets home and reads the
evening newspaper every day, and he's shaking

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00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,480
his head. And I can't tell
whether he's shaking his head at what the

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00:26:55,519 --> 00:26:59,440
Democrats have just done or what the
Republicans have just done. Because the state

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00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:04,640
was totally dominated by the Rockefellers and
the liberal Republicans. There was no room

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00:27:06,839 --> 00:27:10,920
an upstate we were conservative. There
was no room the Albany County who always

369
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,200
voted Democratic Buffalo, but upstate Binghamton, New York. We were conservative,

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00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:21,680
and there was no place for conservatives
to go. Jim Buckley's nineteen seventy campaign

371
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:27,039
Slogan was a senator for the rest
of us, and at upstate New York.

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00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:32,200
We knew just what he meant.
We knew just what he meant,

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00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:37,559
and he was this extremely He came
and campaigned. Actually know this was after

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00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:40,559
he was in the Senate. He
came and did a trip, he went

375
00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:45,440
to It was the only political figure
my parents showed any interest in. He

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00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:51,519
turned up at the Vestal Public Library
to answer questions and I remember thinking,

377
00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:53,839
I don't know a United States senator. This is a glorious figure. And

378
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,680
he showed up in a rumpled suit
and took off his jacket, and I

379
00:27:57,759 --> 00:28:03,079
remember. All I really remember is
how gracious and how quiet spoken he was.

380
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,200
People were constantly straining to hear what
he had to say. And also

381
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,680
that his shirt tail was out.
This proof proofs that An his wife was

382
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,960
not traveling with an issue. In
any event, that was the there was

383
00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:18,920
for if you were a conservative in
New York. There had been no place

384
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,640
to go since nineteen fifty six,
I believe is when Nelson Rockefeller was first

385
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:30,160
elected governor. So it was a
liberal Republican and then a liberal Democratic establishment.

386
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,200
There was nowhere to go, and
then this dignified, well spoken,

387
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:41,880
sweet charming man becomes our hero.
Yeah, Peter. The advertising line was,

388
00:28:42,039 --> 00:28:45,039
isn't it time we had a senator? That's it, that's it.

389
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,119
There was a question and answer all. Let's say. It was very powerful

390
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:55,519
ad campaign run by Clifton White and
I think Roger Ailes was also involved in

391
00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:59,079
the campaign way way back. So
well, Jim was you know, quickly.

392
00:28:59,079 --> 00:29:02,640
I mean he was elected. He
only served one term because he ran

393
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,720
his re election seventy six, which
is tough year for Republicans, of course,

394
00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:12,640
but Daniel Patrick moynihan was the Democrat
nominee. But then Jim went on

395
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:19,200
to serve in the Reagan administration as
an Undersecretary of State ambassador to the Mexico

396
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:25,359
City Conference. And after that he
was appointed, nominated, and confirmed as

397
00:29:25,359 --> 00:29:30,359
a US judge, where he is
by all accounts, on the US Court

398
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:33,319
of Appeals with the District of Columbia, which some people could call, you

399
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:41,000
know, the little Supreme Court.
He was regarded us with most distinction there

400
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:45,680
of all the judges sitting. So
I know people have heard this before,

401
00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:51,359
but in American history, they're only
forty five people who have ever served in

402
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,160
all three branches of government executive,
federal, legislative, and Jim Buckley is

403
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,759
one of them. And he's the
only one alive who's done that, and

404
00:29:57,839 --> 00:30:03,000
the only one in modern American history
who's done that. And his service to

405
00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:08,160
America has just been so profound and
a service to the conservative movement. Not

406
00:30:08,279 --> 00:30:12,839
only is somebody who galvanized the movement
politically with his election in nineteen seventy,

407
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:22,559
but as you stated, Peter,
the dignity of this man has so impressed

408
00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:25,880
so many people over the age.
So he was just not a one shot

409
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,880
one term got in by luck or
by you know, the stars aligned correctly

410
00:30:30,319 --> 00:30:33,559
a political event, which was true, you know, the stars did align.

411
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:40,319
But he really has had a profound
impact on conservatism. And finally,

412
00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:45,279
I will shut up that he hasn't
been so active. He's a hundred.

413
00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:48,680
He turned one hundred yesterday. But
you know, he was writing books until

414
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,200
the age of ninety, you know, early nineties. He was still giving

415
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,720
public speeches as of two years ago. So, by the way, we

416
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,079
should also at the conservative as he
was the sense of dignity and honor.

417
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,039
He was elected on the Conservative Party
ticket in New York, but when he

418
00:31:02,079 --> 00:31:04,839
got to the Senate, he caucused
with the Republicans, which is why he

419
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,480
is known as the first Republican member
of the Senate to call on Richard Nixon

420
00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:15,519
to resign. He did, um, he was he was at at odds

421
00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:21,480
with other conservat There wasn't you know
that overwhelming a conservative block of senators.

422
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,640
But you know, Barry Goldwater was
a colleague, and yeah, Jim was

423
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,160
the first person to do that,
did that at odds with some of the

424
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,920
others. But it took a lot
of a lot of nerve to do that.

425
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,279
By the way of them, there's
only one member of Congress who was

426
00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:41,440
still serving well, well Jim was
in office, and that is Charles Grassley,

427
00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:45,680
who was a member of the House
at the time. And Joe Biden.

428
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:51,480
Of Jim Buckley in the US Senate. Well, with Biden's age,

429
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,480
I'm glad. I'm guessing his telomeres
are about it. You know, one

430
00:31:55,759 --> 00:31:59,400
nice of what mister Buckleys would be. Well, you know, you're as

431
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,000
young as you feel, or are
you, or as old as you look?

432
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:06,079
Or well, you know what,
here's the thing, extending lifespan.

433
00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:09,359
That's great, I guess, but
what if you could extend your lifespan and

434
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,200
feel younger at the same time.
That's the grail, isn't it? Well,

435
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,119
According to a Harvard scientist and a
Nobel Prize winning breakthrough, it's absolutely

436
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:22,359
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437
00:32:22,359 --> 00:32:24,880
play a critical role in the aging
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438
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439
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440
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441
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442
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for sponsoring this for the Ruccochete podcast. Well, I have Rob, Rob,

450
00:33:17,559 --> 00:33:22,799
is there going to be the one
who sums this up? What do

451
00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:27,440
you tell you've written for National Review
for I don't know how long all of

452
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:30,559
us have read National Review. I
was fortunate enough to know, well,

453
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:34,799
I think all of us were fortunate
enough to know the Buckley's Jack better than

454
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:39,079
any of us. But I got
all right, anybody here, I sit

455
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:45,400
on the Stanford campus. These twenty, these extremely bright twenty two year olds

456
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,359
have no clue who the Buckleys were
or why they mattered. How would you?

457
00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:51,400
How would you say? How would
you? What statement would you make?

458
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,079
Rob? That would enable people to
understand why they matter to all four

459
00:33:54,119 --> 00:34:00,279
of us? You mean Jack?
You know what I mean? You mean?

460
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,640
Oh? No, I Rob,
I mean to Rob A question for

461
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:07,440
me, Peter, Yes it is
yes, Oh, I would say,

462
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,719
I mean, I mean, I
don't I mean I would say, for

463
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:15,119
Bill, I think the idea was
that he articulated when it seemed as if

464
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:22,159
Um in fact was true that the
culture and the political culture certainly, and

465
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:28,519
the um you know, the broader
culture of the unities of America had absolutely

466
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:32,519
done with the idea of sort of
individual liberty and capitalism by the by the

467
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:36,960
end of the World War two,
for for for some good reasons, of

468
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:42,159
bad reasons, right, I mean, so sudden sudden about face in what

469
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,280
it be expected from the government after
um the depression, sudden about face from

470
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:52,280
what we thought the government could accomplish. After it accomplished this amazing task in

471
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,679
the forties of smashing Hitler's Europe.
That was a massive federal program, if

472
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:59,320
you want to think of it that
way, that was incredibly effective. It

473
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,440
was also very pensive, and it
was also very wasteful, but it accomplished

474
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,480
the mission. And then you had
a bunch of people coming back home in

475
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,599
the fifties, it's the late fourties
and fifties who were expected the federal government

476
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:15,079
to do things like build highways and
stuff. And what needed to happen was

477
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:20,639
somebody had to rearticulate or adjust what
it meant to be a conservative, a

478
00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:23,280
conservative American and for Bill Buckley,
I think it meant in the fifties,

479
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:29,920
it meant that you couldn't you You
weren't going to be an old New England

480
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,880
bigot, right. So he kind
of you know, cleaned out the stables

481
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:39,119
of the conservative movement and he articulated
set of principles that was incredibly attractive to

482
00:35:39,159 --> 00:35:43,519
people. And he did a thing
that I think the Buckley sort of a

483
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,880
sort of a you know Buckley inc. What they really were. They sort

484
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,760
of comment in a big comment in
the sky, you know, and people

485
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,960
just kind of followed them, and
they inspired a whole bunch of other study

486
00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:59,320
set off a whole lot of sparks. That little whole lot of little fires

487
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,679
all over are, including one with
a you know, a union leader in

488
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:13,760
Los Angeles in the late fifties who
Ronald Reagan, who was inspired by a

489
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:21,199
thoughtful, fun articulate statement of a
conservative purpose that you could read National Review

490
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,519
and there was it was funny and
smart. It still is, but I

491
00:36:23,559 --> 00:36:28,639
think at the time it had it
didn't seem like you Despite his saying we

492
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:30,400
stand athwart history and you'll stop,
which was sort of a joke, he

493
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,719
was not, by any means a
Luddite. He was not trying to turn

494
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,599
the clock back. He was a
very modern guy. And I think that

495
00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:42,360
was what they did. They say
they took a what was in fact,

496
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,480
kind of an ossified old cobwebby American
theory of what conservatives and really meant in

497
00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:50,039
the twenties and thirties and forties,
and he said, no, no,

498
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:52,760
no, we have to be conservatives
with the twenty first century. I think

499
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,679
that's what they did. Buck looking
fair. But but but the problem isn't

500
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,480
it though? When you Rob is
saying you tell this to the twenty year

501
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,239
old to the twenty two year olds
on Peter's campus, it's a long time

502
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,079
ago. It's like when I was
in high school coming up and telling me

503
00:37:06,119 --> 00:37:09,079
all about Calvin Coolidge and what I
could learn from. Yes, that's right,

504
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,280
And so I mean, do we
not run the risk? Well,

505
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,480
of course we do. Just seeming
like to use Robs rays ossified in cobweb

506
00:37:17,559 --> 00:37:22,280
bound. When we're constantly reaching back
to touchstones that are gone, it means

507
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,519
something to us. But time moves
on, and kids today telling them to

508
00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:30,400
look to Reagan and Buckley, which
would be wise, it doesn't seem it

509
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:37,599
seems seed cast on stony ground.
Well, even if you're the most lefty

510
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:44,159
Reddit obsessed kid, you do know
there's a conservative movement and the curiosity of

511
00:37:44,159 --> 00:37:46,800
well, how did this thing come
to be? Because prior to National Review

512
00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:50,960
and a center right nation was still
a center right nation. It was more

513
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,440
of a center right nation in the
mid fifties, there was no no,

514
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,440
no thing that rallied it and that
was a National Review that was Bill Buckley.

515
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:01,960
If I was alive then and try
to create National Review, we would

516
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,880
not have a conservative movement because it's
by the virtue of the particular characters,

517
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:13,360
characteristics and dig and one of the
traits that Bill had rob you your thing

518
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,840
about you know, comic. They
were just inspired. Bill was an inspiring

519
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:24,039
person in his very larger than life
way, and Jim Buckley was inspiring in

520
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:29,960
his dignified way. So the two
of them as a fraternal tag team were

521
00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:36,039
essential to creating the political movement that, like it or not, exists today.

522
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:39,000
People who want to know how this
came to be should get to know

523
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,440
who Bill Buckley is, who Jim
Buckley is. Okay, so um,

524
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:50,280
give me a little uh kind of
like as much as you want to say,

525
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:55,840
what's the state of conservative media today. Oh, I mean it doesn't.

526
00:38:57,039 --> 00:39:00,199
It seems like more choices, right, it's louder and noise, and

527
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,400
there are more places to get more
choices and dumber, much dumber. But

528
00:39:02,519 --> 00:39:09,199
is that what do you think?
Well? I think it's It's hard for

529
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:15,159
me, particularly who walked through the
doors of National Review forty years ago,

530
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:21,800
to unwind these things, because at
one point National Review was the only game

531
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,320
in town, and Bill Buckley was
so happy that other entities came about,

532
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,920
even competitors. Take the Week you
know of late, the Weekly Standard,

533
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:35,280
of course, Rush Limbaugh. But
we're all just for you. I took

534
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,639
a little shot at the Weekly Standard
in an email to Bill when it was

535
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:43,159
something along the lines of well,
this new magazine won't be anything like National

536
00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:46,639
Review, and Bill wrote back a
very sharp reply, we should all be

537
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:52,599
delighted that now there's another one,
right well, and we should be delighted

538
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:58,760
that there is a plethora of means
of Remember, it's twenty four hours in

539
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,679
a day. I have to get
if I want my conservatism, I have

540
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:07,079
to get it somehow. I'm reading
the magazine, listening to podcasts, watching

541
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:10,599
Fox or Newsmax, whatever, So
there's plentiful out there. I guess when

542
00:40:10,639 --> 00:40:19,480
it becomes more plentiful the level of
having started as a journal of opinion and

543
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:24,360
high intellectual there's no way to go
on the intellectual level. But down that

544
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:32,000
doesn't mean it's bad. You know, Rush Limbaugh was not reading from work,

545
00:40:32,599 --> 00:40:37,039
Yeah, work, right, but
he was still meaningful and influential.

546
00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:42,000
So Bill loved him, by the
way, we love it so but that

547
00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:47,039
said, um, you know,
there's too much This not necessarily applies to

548
00:40:47,079 --> 00:40:51,320
conservative journal There's a lot of echo
chambering going on, and that's the thing

549
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,000
that turns me most. Yeah,
by the way, I just looked up

550
00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:00,519
Jack. I looked this up on
Amazon. If people want to experience Jim's

551
00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:05,440
prose, which again is not it's
him, it's not Bill. Bill's pros

552
00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:09,519
is spectacular, and there's so much
motion, and Jim's is beautiful, beautifully

553
00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:15,719
have the feeling of something really carefully
wrought craftsman life. There are two books

554
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:20,159
of essays, Freedom at Risk Reflections
on Politics, Liberty and the State,

555
00:41:20,199 --> 00:41:25,639
that was published in I had the
date here twenty twelve, twenty twelve,

556
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,440
and Saving Congress from Itself, Emancipating
the States, and Empowering Their People,

557
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:36,960
which was published in twenty thirteen,
I think twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen.

558
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,880
So I make that point that they're
available on Amazon, and also that James

559
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:49,159
Lane Buckley turned one hundred yesterday and
yet he's still more recently published than Rob

560
00:41:49,199 --> 00:41:57,199
Long or Peter Robinson, well or
me. I read some James James publishes

561
00:41:57,199 --> 00:42:00,079
all the time, but he's he's
not done a book, so that's well.

562
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:00,679
I mean, I've not done a
book. I've got seven of them.

563
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,280
I just got a royalty check from
the guys. Oh wait, autem

564
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,880
randomist track me down and said,
look, we can't find your agent anymore.

565
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:13,760
And I told yes, that's because
he was first a a crook and

566
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,840
then second b dead um. But
they had some royalties from a book that

567
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,000
I published in two thousand and one
and they wanted to ship off to me.

568
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,599
So that was great, you know, if I may, Writing for

569
00:42:22,679 --> 00:42:27,840
Jim Buckley was much more of a
struggle that his brother Jim. A Bill

570
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,199
would go upstairs during a dinner and
crank out a column in twenty minutes and

571
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,519
come back down for dessert. Jim. This is one of the reasons he

572
00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:39,000
was not reluctant to be on the
federal judge but it really did mean you

573
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:44,360
know, you're writing a traditional opinion. It's not it's not seven hundred and

574
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:50,079
fifty words. And writing came slowly
to him, but so that the judge

575
00:42:50,079 --> 00:42:55,280
ship really consumed him entirely because of
just the amount of work that went into

576
00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,199
it. But he was he was
extremely highly respected as a judge. Well,

577
00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:02,679
I'm glad that you came to tell
us about him, and I'm sure

578
00:43:02,679 --> 00:43:06,519
he's honored by the words that you
said. And yes, Peter, I

579
00:43:06,559 --> 00:43:08,159
was just gonna say, how is
he? Have you sent him an email?

580
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:12,599
Congratulations? I assume he was overwhelmed. But he's still emailing and chatting

581
00:43:12,639 --> 00:43:15,039
on the phone as I understand it. Yeah, he is. One of

582
00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:16,920
my former colleagues saw him a few
weeks ago, Jim. You know,

583
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,960
there was a hope that there would
be a celebration of course for a hundred,

584
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,440
but he's still with it. These
the marbles have not been lost,

585
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:29,960
but the mobility has taken a hit
of late. So, but he's there's

586
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,800
no dotage going on. Ritrim Buckley, Oh, she cannot say. For

587
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,679
some of us on this podcast,
really, we all not live so long

588
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:39,960
as to have our insufficiencies revealed for
all. But Jack, we wish may

589
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,719
you'll live a hundred years. And
you know we got to have you on

590
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,599
next time to talk about what you're
doing because your contribution to National Review in

591
00:43:45,639 --> 00:43:50,239
the movement is big and extraordinary and
long last ding. We love you for

592
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,599
it. Well, thanks for having
we'd love you for having you on the

593
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:54,800
show as well. We'll have you
back, ladies and gentlemen. Jack Flower,

594
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,679
Thanks see you later, Thanks job, thanks check. All right,

595
00:43:59,679 --> 00:44:01,639
guys, thank you very much.
What you could say is that these guys

596
00:44:01,679 --> 00:44:06,960
back in the fifties beat a Coolidge
or a Reagan or a Buckley, planted

597
00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:14,039
seeds they would later grow into stout
trunks. Well that's all the segue I'm

598
00:44:14,039 --> 00:44:16,039
gonna do, because Franklin, it's
a good one. Thought. Trunks,

599
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,800
stout trunks, limbs of girth.
Yeah. Maybe we were talking before about

600
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,079
how spring is coming, which it
is, which is why you should,

601
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:24,880
you know, look at what you're
gonna eat. You should also look at

602
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,800
what you're gonna do with your yard. I'm looking at my yard and thinking

603
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,639
this year I might actually get myself
an electric lawnmower. I know it sounds

604
00:44:32,639 --> 00:44:37,320
like one of those crazy, you
know, green future things, but I

605
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,599
just want to do the whole Eddie
albert Land spreading out so far and wide,

606
00:44:40,599 --> 00:44:45,559
feeling I'm owing your own lawn.
I do, and maybe, you

607
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:46,599
know, maybe I'll plant a tree
here and there. I got a lot

608
00:44:46,639 --> 00:44:50,719
of trees, but anybody who has
a lot of trees know that they die

609
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,960
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610
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know why people just don't plant fifty sixty

611
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625
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not pulling, vacuuming, scraping dirt
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626
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of weeks. Plus what I love
about this and I'm gonna use them again

627
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come the spring, is we got
some marbor vitae that are dying because they're

628
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dumb plants, but for some reason
we just keep putting them in again and

629
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again and again because they fill the
gap and the need and the rest.

630
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631
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632
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not you know, some generic big
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633
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640
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thank Fast Growing Trees. Responsing this
the Ricochet podcast, I got some housekeeping

641
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:57,159
here to come to do. Rob. I believe you have a brief note

642
00:46:57,639 --> 00:47:02,199
about human beings actually communing in a
shared space that is not cybernetic or virtual.

643
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:09,920
Caught him flat footed, there,
didn't I. We called this week

644
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:14,599
in radio, we called this dead
air, and we would abhor it podcast.

645
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,000
Some people seem perfectly willing to let
it go on as long as they

646
00:47:17,039 --> 00:47:22,000
wanted to. That was so embarrassing. I was talking and you were talking

647
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,280
over me, and I was like, why is he talking as he talking

648
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,280
over me? And I realized,
Okay, I had a cough, so

649
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,440
I have a I had a mute. Um, I do have a cough.

650
00:47:29,519 --> 00:47:32,679
So we do, in fact have
Ricochet meetup stats what you're talking about.

651
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,239
We have meetups and Ricochet where real
people get together and have fun and

652
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,079
there's something they're coming up. There's
the last call coming for the John Meet

653
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:42,960
John Gabriel and Phoenix. So if
you're in the Phoenix areas, sign up

654
00:47:43,039 --> 00:47:45,559
quickly. Um, you know,
get to meet the King of Stuff.

655
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:52,199
Um. They'll they meet March eleven, which is like Saturday. So if

656
00:47:52,199 --> 00:47:55,000
it's if you're one of the people
who listen to this podcast on Sunday,

657
00:47:57,519 --> 00:48:00,599
go to Ricochet and see how the
meet up was. People usue post pictures

658
00:48:00,599 --> 00:48:02,280
and stuff. A bunch of us
are going to be in New Orleans next

659
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:07,159
month for French Quarter Fest. We
including me and I hope to see you

660
00:48:07,199 --> 00:48:13,880
there. Flicker in Stillwater, Minnesota
is having a meetup that is happening in

661
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,679
April twenty second in Stillwater, Minnesota, Minnesota. That's about your neck the

662
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,320
woods. I hope to make it, unless, of course I'm in Barcelona

663
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,239
and I don't want to go through
that again. Okay, I was right

664
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:29,960
by the way about Barcelona and we
just heard that Winston Salem meetup. There's

665
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,000
a Winston Salem meet up in the
works from mid July, So if you're

666
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,519
in that area. If you're not
those areas or those dates don't work for

667
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:39,440
you, here's the solution. You
just join Ricochet posts that you want to

668
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,039
have a meetup somewhere closer to you
on a date that works for you,

669
00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:45,519
and I guarantee you people will show
up. People at Ricochet tend to show

670
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:51,400
up and have a good time.
So details are all. This stuff is

671
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,280
at Ricochet. So go to ricochet
com, slash events or find the module

672
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,800
and sidebar on the website. Join
Ricochet kind of a meetup, look forward

673
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,800
to seeing you meet up. So
are good like a Ricochet should. When

674
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,760
you mentioned Winston Salem, when I
was a kid and discovered that actually there

675
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:07,480
was a city called Winston Salem,
because I was just aware of it and

676
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:12,800
its cigarette incarnations because my sure,
so many of my family smoked Winston's my

677
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,280
uncle uh, and then one of
the aunts was puffing away at the Salem's

678
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,559
to discover that those are actually it
was one city. I was just absolutely

679
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:24,800
going away. What's next? Marlborough
Lark? Where do you live? I

680
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:31,159
live in Durrell, Kent. Yeah, Terryton. Yeah. I had an

681
00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:36,920
aunt that smoked Terryton too. And
you know, virtually all the cigarette brands

682
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,119
were distributed amongst my aunts and uncles, right down to the raleighs which had

683
00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:43,559
the coupons you could say, you
could, oh, yes, that's right,

684
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,679
when you had to wonder about a
cigarette whose quality was such that they

685
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:50,320
had to give you these coupon and
enticements that you would collect for you know,

686
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,320
things like golf, you know,
you know, uh, oxygen tanks

687
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,280
and the rest of it. But
they all had their own individual brands,

688
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,400
which I to this to this day
when I when I hear Winston Salem,

689
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:06,519
what pops into my head is my
uncle Myron and uh and my aunt?

690
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,719
Who was it? Was it?
V? I think vy smoke shows anyway.

691
00:50:10,119 --> 00:50:14,559
Um, that's another marker of adulthood
that kids don't grow up with.

692
00:50:14,639 --> 00:50:19,559
They don't know Bill buck Lean,
they don't know cigarette brands, highways kids

693
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,400
kids today. So what else have
we going on? Before we leave?

694
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:27,119
We could talk about anything in the
world. We could talk about what we

695
00:50:27,199 --> 00:50:29,119
happened to be, what we used
to do this, you know, we

696
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:31,039
used to say what we were,
what we were watching. The streaming thing

697
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:35,360
to give people an idea of something
else to watch. Because I have a

698
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,639
question, though, Can I ask
a question? We only briefly discussed it,

699
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:44,199
but I remember this is a legit
question. So, um, when

700
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:49,079
you went to Mexico, James,
Yes, did you feel at risk?

701
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,800
No? And here's why I asked, because I go to places where the

702
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,559
people say, oh, I would
never go there. I would. Were

703
00:50:55,599 --> 00:51:00,480
you safe in Jerusalem? Are you
safe in Egypt? Were you what about

704
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:02,519
May? And I think, yeah, I'm really safe and then but but

705
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,519
I do sometimes look at the news
and thinking I'm not going to Mexico.

706
00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:10,639
Yeah, well, you know on
the cup and the Cancoon subredit. Which

707
00:51:10,679 --> 00:51:14,119
is interesting that all these people who
are just coming in with their hands a

708
00:51:14,119 --> 00:51:15,840
flutter saying I heard about all this
cartel violence. Is it safe to go

709
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:20,519
to Cancoo? You know, that's
like saying there there's a whole bunch of

710
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:22,880
drug wars going on Washington State.
Is it safe for me to go to

711
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:28,239
Disneyland, disney World, disney World
in Florida? The answer is yes.

712
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,199
Now, is it is it possible
that somebody could come up alongside of our

713
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:37,159
van and wave the guy over and
releave of our property. Yes, could

714
00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:42,159
have in in Minneapolis too. Now
Mexico is a lot more lawless in that

715
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:46,119
respect. But I tend to think
that there's a an understanding that the cash

716
00:51:46,199 --> 00:51:52,039
cow that is this enterprise shall not
be shall not be gutted and shot.

717
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,599
So I don't I feel no.
Plus, I'm way up there, right,

718
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,639
But do you feel like I mean, I guess I'm asking is that

719
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:04,000
they're people? There were hearings or
people. I saw a lot of senators

720
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,159
and people making speeches on TV after
this. Do you feel like the American

721
00:52:07,199 --> 00:52:09,440
government? I mean, it seems
like that's the lever we should pull as

722
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:13,760
to say, you know, maybe
Americans should rethink going and spending their money

723
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,199
in Mexico's tourists doesn't seem terribly safe, or at least don't go there for

724
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:21,800
off brand plastic surgery. I suppose, because I would say, yeah,

725
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,079
they don't go down there for medicine
or to butt tuck or the rest of

726
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:30,400
it. But I mean, there
isn't there talk now about putting on the

727
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:37,480
table the American military option to deal
with with drugs and cartels. Bill Barr

728
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,000
published a piece in the Wall Street
Journal. Was it this week or late

729
00:52:40,119 --> 00:52:45,119
last week, I think it was
this week saying Bill Barr, former Attorney

730
00:52:45,119 --> 00:52:47,679
General the United States, saying that
we should that the United States military should

731
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:54,000
handle the cartels in Mexico, that
the drug deaths in this country and the

732
00:52:54,280 --> 00:53:00,239
undermining of Mexican society, that the
Mexican government and military cannot handle them on

733
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:07,760
our own. And Bill Barr essentially
called for the first invasion of Mexico by

734
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:13,039
the United States since the Pancho Villa
expedition of nineteen seventeen, when Blackjack Persian

735
00:53:13,199 --> 00:53:19,719
chased Pancho Villa all around Sonora,
and I thought, you know, I

736
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,159
couldn't find a flaw in his argument, but I still thought, oh,

737
00:53:22,159 --> 00:53:27,639
oh yeah, by the way,
is it the question is it safe?

738
00:53:28,119 --> 00:53:31,360
Somebody I know well was an executive
at a pretty big bank down in Mexico,

739
00:53:32,119 --> 00:53:38,079
and every executive from the level of
vice president and up was either kidnapped

740
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:45,239
or had a member of his family
kidnapped. Every single one. Routine and

741
00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:50,519
very dangerous because everyten the kidnappers have
to kill somebody to remind you that we're

742
00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:55,000
serious about wanting ransom. It's not
right. I go to an isolated Simuel

743
00:53:55,079 --> 00:54:00,960
Lackram of the experience that I in
no way confused in any sense with actual

744
00:54:01,039 --> 00:54:06,599
Mexico, and that includes the food. Right it is, it is what

745
00:54:06,639 --> 00:54:09,079
it is. It's this fantasy little
bubble in which you live, and that's

746
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:14,519
great. But we all know that
Rob Long believes that the problem is not

747
00:54:14,639 --> 00:54:17,400
consumption and demand in America but Mexican
production. That's why you, Rob are

748
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:22,800
in favor of a full throated military
response to the cartels. Right, No,

749
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:27,480
I'm not. I read that Bill
bar Pie said, I I know,

750
00:54:28,039 --> 00:54:30,880
I think that that's not our solution. Our solution is but you know,

751
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,440
let's I mean, I'm always low
hanging fruit. Do the easy stuff

752
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,079
first. First, control of border. Hit border control on. Second,

753
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:44,840
put economic pressure on Mexico to clean
itself up, in the sense of like

754
00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:51,280
telling Americans they shouldn't go to Mexico. They shouldn't. I really I would

755
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:52,519
do that Forore. I would invade. I would say, listen in the

756
00:54:52,519 --> 00:54:57,599
State Department issues at a while,
an alert for a lot of places.

757
00:54:57,599 --> 00:55:01,679
We're going too alert for the entire
nation of Mexico. Don't go until until

758
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,360
the streets are safe. And I
think that would get the attention of a

759
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:07,719
lot of people in Mexico would kind
of think like, well, yeah,

760
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,360
if you go here, you go
there, you go to that state or

761
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,559
that state of the other state,
you're gonna get in trouble. But yeah,

762
00:55:12,679 --> 00:55:14,880
basically you can get off your cruise
ship. Now, don't go into

763
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:19,199
cruise ships. I mean that I
would do that. I would do that

764
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:25,679
kind of pressure before I would start
sending American military into Mexican territory so that

765
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:30,320
they as in the same way that
the look, you start dropping bombs on

766
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,280
people and killing people, you're gonna
kill some innocent people and you're gonna kill

767
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,239
an innocent family, and that's going
to be on you know, the news.

768
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:42,480
That's not a good idea, certainly, not until you've exhausted all the

769
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,199
other possibilities, one of which I
think is to get control of the border,

770
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:51,400
Like you know, like why why
do it always the hard way?

771
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:52,960
That's it's hard enough to get control
of the border. But that seems like

772
00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:59,320
a job number one. Well,
I think we could do it though.

773
00:55:59,519 --> 00:56:01,320
Three days. We can march to
Mexico City, install our own governments.

774
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,639
A matter of fact, that's send
the troops with the dress parade uniforms.

775
00:56:04,679 --> 00:56:07,880
Oh wait a minute, hold on
I've heard that story before. We'll be

776
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:13,360
as liberators, we will be greeted
as liberators. Indeed, well you know

777
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:15,119
some of us, did. I
remember a couple of happy people, but

778
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:20,159
when we pulled down the statues of
Saddam. But then that's another story,

779
00:56:20,599 --> 00:56:22,039
something else that I wanted to point
out. I can't remember what it is

780
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:24,920
precisely. Oh right, Well,
when Peter, when you talk about the

781
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,719
kidnappings and the constant kidnaps and the
rest of it, yeah, I mean

782
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,639
that sort of seems only part of
the problem. The other is that the

783
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:37,960
new leadership in Mexico, from what
I understand, is rejiggering their sort of

784
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:45,199
election, overseeing committees and rules.
It makes it more difficult to challenge the

785
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,320
results, which just means it seems
to be drifting back to if it ever

786
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,599
got too far away from the permanent, the permanent revolutionary institutional party that they

787
00:56:53,599 --> 00:56:57,679
had before, and that the hope
that we had when they opened up and

788
00:56:57,679 --> 00:57:00,840
there was actually a you know,
a ye, that those days seem to

789
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:05,400
be gone. In Mexico's better days
are behind it rather than they had.

790
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,840
However, Ricochet's better days are always
ahead of it because we know that you

791
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:13,280
the listener, if you're not a
member already, will go and be compelled

792
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,679
to join. Not compelled in the
literal sense, but compelled by what you

793
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,800
find. Now. Mind you,
if you go there, you're not going

794
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,360
to find everything because the member feed
were a lot of the real good communities

795
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:28,599
and all the vivacious, interesting discussions
about all kinds of topics. That's where

796
00:57:28,639 --> 00:57:30,320
you know, that's the fun part. So go to Ricochet, give it

797
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,599
a look, give it a try. You don't like it, you can

798
00:57:32,679 --> 00:57:35,800
quit. You know, we're not
going to be one of those places that

799
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:37,559
locks you in the contracts and the
rest of it, are we guys,

800
00:57:37,719 --> 00:57:42,280
No, okay good. I would
also like to know that fast Growing Trees

801
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:46,000
and youth switch in Factor are all
products that will make your life easier and

802
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:50,519
or better. Support them for supporting
us. And I think about the five

803
00:57:50,559 --> 00:57:53,159
star review at Apple. I'm not
going to say it this week because if

804
00:57:53,159 --> 00:57:57,880
I did, I would have to
mention again that it takes only a couple

805
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,960
of seconds, and again it means
that people find the podcast easier, and

806
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,719
it means that Ricochet's thrives. I've
said that before. I'm not going to

807
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,119
say it again at all. What
I'm going to do is say it's been

808
00:58:07,159 --> 00:58:13,199
great and Rob Peter, we'll see
everybody at the comments at Ricochet four point

809
00:58:13,599 --> 00:58:21,360
next Week, Next Week, Boy
Week, Ricochet joined the conversation