What is crack Lack and fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am Damp Valley coming
at you with my certified van haabulous co host Grant Hughes, who's just so
unbelievably dedicated as am I that we have two live podcasts smack in the middle
of the workday because we know that's what the masses want and have time to
view. We're going to take a look back at the NBA trade deadline,
which was exactly one month ago today, Happy one month a versary to the
NBA trade deadline. We're gonna go through the biggest moves, regrade them or
reanalyze them based off our initial thoughts. But first the question everyone is dying
dying to know the answer to Grant, how the heck are you doing?
I'm doing well, thank you for asking. You know what else is?
It's not just a month from the deadline, it's exactly a month until the
end of the regular season. So what what better you know? If you're
in the symmetry? What better time to look at these trades? Kind of
nice, that wouldn't be called the book end. Whatever that is right smack
in the middle. That's good, that's perfect this is this is the right
time to do this. I think, does it feel like the time since
the trade deadline has flown by or taken forever? We're both flown by because
the All Star break was in there too, So yeah, I mean we
talked, you know, a few weeks ago about how that break was nice.
But the other the weird thing is like, I don't know how you
feel about this, but for a lot of these trades, uh, it
has felt like we're still kind of waiting to see, you know, what
the results are going to be. You know, we we just like the
Lakers for example, and now we'll talk about it like with Durant. So
we haven't gotten a lot of looks at you know, oh this team,
this revamps team, what are you know, how different is it now or
how much better or how much worse is it? So we have a lot
of like, I don't know, we still have a lot of a sample
that we need to judge and in some cases we're not going to get it.
But that's that's another thing that makes like looking back at these trades interesting
is that we just for some of them, it's like, I don't know,
we still we still need to see way more to be sure. Yeah,
and we went through this for Bleacher Report too, So it's an exercise
we have clearly thought a lot about at the moment. So so I guess
we should start with let's start with the Kevin Durant deal, which was so,
do you want to take us through? Since you led this one when
we were regrading them, can you lead us through the Kevin Durant deal?
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we need to go over the
full trade, but I mean everybody remembers basically it's Durant and t J.
Warren to the Suns for Michail Bridges, Cam Johnson. What is it?
One, two, three, four, unprotected? First, they can't have
a whole bunch of firsts and some swaps. It's just like the most you
could possibly give up more or less. And now, as I was alluding
to, Kevin Durant sprained his ankle and warmups on Wednesday night, and so
there's you know, reporting is still early, but I've seen grade two ankle
sprain. I've seen four to six weeks. I've seen maybe for the season.
He was in a boot last night. We know that. So I
don't know how you feel about that effect on the trade or how it should
change the way we evaluate it personally, I'm not really you know, And
this is gonna be inconsistent because there's gonna be another trade where an injury is
going to affect my analysis of it, but not so much in this case,
because this was just always about the ceiling, and for me just to
go to the Sun's grade first, it's just a flat a. Even even
if we've seen three games now of Durant, they were all awesome, like
he just fit in perfectly, didn't take anything off the table. They were
all big wins. I'm trying to let me pull the stats up here.
So his shooting lines, you know, twenty three points out ten of fifteen,
shooting twenty points on seven of ten, thirty seven on twelve of seventeen.
It's like a joke, right, and those are all three wins.
And so whatever questions you had about and most people didn't, will will Kevin
Durant be difficult to integrate into a team. No, hell no, he
will not. He is the most scalable superstar basically ever. So it looked
great and all we care about is the ceiling because we at least I and
I think you, to some degree thought that this trade makes the Suns,
you know, on par with Denver or right there in the West. I
haven't changed my opinion on that the injury clouds it, but he's like,
you're not gonna say this was anything other than a home run. And then
the other side of it unless you have do you want before I get to
Bridges specifically in the nets, do you how does the injury affect, if
at all, your opinion on the Sun's side of it doesn't because the especially
because we don't know the severity of it just yet. And also even if
he comes back not until the playoffs, he's just shown that he'll come back
from injury and dominate anyway soon. If he missed the next like three weeks
or whatever it was, they're gonna be fine. I gave them an a
minus the first time around, and I think after seeing it on the floor
and just Devin Booker too, just absolutely thriving during the kd era alongside Kiddy,
not just during the game that Katie didn't play on Wednesday night, that
made me feel even better about it. I gave him an a minus initially
because I'll just say and I talked about this because online podcasts they didn't win.
You got Kevin Durant, so you want, but they didn't win any
aspect of the negotiation. It was they didn't broker picks swaps, and I
get them. They were never getting out of it while keeping mcal Bridges like
they tried to sandwich DeAndre in there instead. It wasn't gonna work, So
I understand that. But then at the end where Matt Ishbiel was just like,
yeah, we'll give you Jay Crowder because you all of a sudden said
you weren't going to trade us Kevin Rant because of Jake Crowder. I get
that you were paying for the exclusivity of the window still, but you were
a market of one and like just didn't win any aspects of the negotiations.
So there was a little bit of new owner syndrome there to me. I
don't know if you felt the same way, But again, you can't lose
this trade. Eleven times out of ten, I would still make it.
It just would have been nice to see them like protect their flank a little
bit. Yeah, that's totally fair, I think, and I mean that
ties into the net side of it. Bridges just and like, look,
he's not so the one of the narratives with Bridges this season, and I'm
not narrative in a negative way, like it's bullshit. But one of the
real storylines for him was he was expanding his game and that had to do
with you know, Chris Paul was hurt, Devin Booker was hurt, Cam
Johnson was hurt. So he was sort of just like the only guy I
left, you know, of any you know, substantial star adjacent quality to
do anything. And so he was running a couple more pick and rolls,
and he was getting a little more you know, into the self creation bag
on offense and just generally being on the ball more. Just a little bit
nothing crazy. I mean, we talked about it. And then he gets
to Brooklyn and suddenly it's it's like, oh my god, this guy is
he a frontline you know, first option star. The numbers, so which's
just like a joke to look at these twenty six and a half points,
five point three boards, three point three assists, is shooting split fifty two
point six percent from the field, forty eight point one from deep, ninety
two two from the line, Like that's all gonna come down there's just no
one. No one sustains that level of offensive efficiency on that kind of volume.
But like what we thought was happening with Phoenix is really happening in Brooklyn.
Like his his usage rate was nineteen point two percent, it's twenty seven
point three now sixty point two percent of his that we've kind of watched this
or I did on the actual write up, but the gist is that like
fifteen percent more of his field goals are unassisted now, so he's not just
dependent on he's the three in D label like kind of done. I mean,
he is that he can be three maybe the best three in D player
in the league, but he's so much more than that. And I really
focus most of my analysis of this trade on him because I think, in
addition to all those picks and you know, Cam Johnson is not nothing and
all that other stuff, just the fact that Bridges might be so much better
than he showed himself to be in Phoenix. H this is an a for
the Nets. I went as all around on this just because everybody got what
they wanted, and I think the Nets maybe got more than they expected.
So just the Bridges evolution really just puts this over the top for Brooklyn.
You don't want to trade one of the best players of all time, but
if you have to, this is a great way to ease the sting of
that. And as you alluded to, like you know, there was nobody
else really to run up this offer. It was just kind of like he
wants Durant wants to go to Phoenix. That's just what it is. It's
not like the market was, you know, forcing Phoenix's He just got so
much more than you should have been able to hear. Yeah, and just
I mean the progression from Michael Bridges to echo what you said, Yes,
it was underway in Phoenix. But like this year, you know, the
thing you had written about, like his two point unassisted, like the sheriff's
baskets that are going on assist from two point range skyrocketed. Just overall,
looking at the progression from last year and even how stark it's been for Phoenix
to Brooklyn. Eighteen point one percent of his buckets last season went unassisted.
Then with the Suns this year that was up to twenty eight point eight percent,
and now we're looking at about forty percent of all his field goals going
unassisted. That's a huge jump, and so just like if if he maintains
it, I don't know. I would bet against him being a one A
on a really good team too. But like, what were we ever talking
about him? Is maybe during our hotter takes we said he could be the
second best player in our championship team. But is he now maybe a one
B or is he a certifiable number two? And the fact that this is
just eminently on the table, now that's a big that's a big deal for
Brooklyn, especially because he's under contract. They don't have their own picks,
and so if they want to even see like if they want to keep their
optionality open, you have Bridges to be like, oh well we could keep
him or what would he command on the trademarket this summer if you turned around
and flipped them again? Right, I mean you heard the like four first,
Right, there's whispered that that's what they thought they could get for him
shortly after they acquired him. I would love to know if we're talking like
it can't be four first, like they gave up to Phoenix. But like,
I just think zooming out what's happening with Bridges is a really good because
because I didn't think. I think I kind of you know, downplayed always
doing more. He's capable of this because with Phoenix his efficiency was down,
and you know, with as his volume and sort of responsibilities increased, I
kind of thought like, maybe he can be a little better. But I
never foresaw this. And it's a good reminder that every once in a while,
you know, every player thinks they can do more. And not to
say that Bridges was kind of clamoring for more responsibilities, but every once in
a while you get this, which is, you know, and there's not
a lot of them, like Jimmy Butler going from he's always a nice role
player, it's always a good defenders. Oh he's a first option on a
title threat for like the next eight years. You know, every once in
a while you get that kind of level up, and Bridges, I think,
is much closer to that than the guy you can sort of incrementally give
more responsibilities too. So it's it's a good reminder that you can't just dismiss,
you know, guys putting up more volume or doing different stuff because the
circumstances called for it, like they did in Phoenix. Sometimes it's real.
Yeah, And the thing I would just caution very quickly to wract this up
is mcal Bridge had been spectacular, but that's also on the bottom five of
office efficiencies. The Durant trade not on him. He hasn't even played.
He was he wasn't eligible for the first game that they played without Katie,
But like, still that would be something key mind is like, can he
be the driving force the number one on a you know, a top ten
offense. I don't. I don't know, but what he's showing now is
is incredible. We should probably hit the other side of this, which is
the order we actually went in when we regraded it. So Kyrie Irving to
Dallas just to rehash the package there. It was the Dallas Mavericks sent Spencer
Dinwitty, Dorian Finnie Smith, a twenty twenty seven second, a twenty twenty
nine first unprotected, and then the twenty twenty nine first to the Dallas Mavericks
for Kyrie Irving and mark Yeth Morris, who I forgot to include in my
initial write up when I when I said it, I just forgot that he
sort of existed. I did not grade this the first time around. I
graded all these trades except for the Kyrie one because it happened for the trade
deadline. I can tell you unequickically, based off the live show we did,
I probably would have given them a D minus or an F. I
gave it a C the second time around, just because the same semblance of
risk is there. And I don't know if you've already seen the video that
he posted that's floating around there, going off on how people watch him for
three hours and thinks that they know him. And I find that video funny
because it's further evidence of a disconnect from reality because he specifically mentions, you're
not considering the other twenty one hours of my life. It is literally the
other twenty one hours of the day that concerns everyone with you, no one,
everyone is at ease when they watch on the basketball court for those three
hours. That's when the opinion of yourself is at its highest. It's nay,
dear, you're at your most radioactive off the basketball court. So please,
like I just talk about disconnective narcissism, is that a thing? Like
he's just mind blowing. So this risk is there because he said all the
right things except for that post. But speaking of the media sentring the Mavericks.
He said all the right things. He hasn't wanted to talk about his
future, and I think that's fine. That's that's his prerogative here. I
think that he will wind up resigning in Dallas, which is part of this
grade because you don't force you away out of Brooklyn unless you're concerned about a
team having your bird rights, and the Dallas now has the bird rights.
They're pot committed because of what they gave up for him and sort of just
let him walk for nothing, or even trying to move him as part of
a sign and trade, which well, what's the market for that gonna be?
Yeah, okay, the Lakers, but they've already traded one of their
picks and they can't to be have Lebron Anthy Davis and Kyrie evering on your
paperrow and be hard capped just feel super unrealistic. And so I'm caking in
this. He's like, Okay, he'll probably be back. Do I feel
good about that? I have no idea, but I will say when you
watch the MAVs, you can see the outline of a really good team that's
just not finished yet. Because Kyrie and Luca, the MAVs are beating opponents
by almost ten points per one hundred possessions. With them on the court,
surprise surprise, they can't get stops. Surprise surprise. Jason Kidd doesn't want
to play them with Christian Wood. Surprise surprise. They're overly reliant on Josh
Green and Reggie Bullock and now just returned from injury, Maxi Kleiba on the
defensive end. Those are all when you look at what they need with the
trade assets they still have because they can trade up to two first round picks
this summer. Still you have the ability to go out and I think I
get finishing touches, which in theory is what you need now. If you're
counting on Kyrie Irving to be healthy and engaged, you just need finishing touches
around him. In Luca, I'm still wildly uncomfortable with this trade because I
personally, and these are the lens through which we grade, these trades,
would not have tethered any part of Luka Dontrich's competitive window to Kyrie Irving,
who is just the anti semitism stuff, the being away from the nets at
different points, the way he's submarine, all these different locker rooms, just
the thing that he said, how he can become a perpetual distraction just like
that. I don't the fact that the Maps felt they needed to make this
risk is an indictment on their situation, and I think that still holds.
But again, I want to reiterate, even the games they've lost, like
most with Kyrie and Luka Donte's, theyve played some pretty high end opponents for
the most part, and they've all got They've had some bad losses too,
but they've gone into crunch time. There's a high level outcome for this team
and I'm just curious as to whether they'll be able to you get the finishing
touches around them. However, and the final thing here, and I'm just
echoing this is Kyrie going to stay? Are you fine being in the lucrative
and long term Kyrie irving business? That is still very much up for debate,
and people will get mad at to see if any Mavericks Nars will say
this see is passing. They're passing. It's passing. So I think the
thing so this is one of the trades that I haven't really nothing that I've
seen on the floor has changed my opinion of it, because as you said,
with talking specifically about Kyrie, I didn't really have any questions about how
this would work or how it would look in the actual games like that's I
didn't think, you know, we always kind of wring our hands about there's
only one ball, how are Kyrie and Luca are going to co exist?
I didn't really ever see that as a you know, a realistic thing to
be concerned about. It's all the other stuff, it's the other twenty one
hours. As you said, I think maybe we should. We got to
come up with some kind of like that needs to become a thing that we're
concerned about Kyrie Irving's twenty one hours. But but I just as you were
talking about it, I agree that he is likely to stay. Now I
think it's maybe feels more likely than it did it was, call it a
coin flip or whatever when the trade went down. Seems reasonably likely that he
will resign, and I can't decide if I think that's better or worse than
him leaving, you know, a free agency. And that's always been the
concern for me is I can't figure out which possible outcome makes me feel better
about the trade. And that's just because if he leaves, that's rough,
right, you gave up at first, he gave up you know, real
players during Phinney Smith specifically that helped you and helped you get to a conference
finals. However you feel about that run last year, I think him losing
him having given that up would be bad, and I think the fallout with
Luca being frustrated, like so what was that all even for? Is big.
But if you you consign or attach or tether, like you said yourself
to Kyrie Irving on a multi year deal, you're just signing up for like
god knows what, And unfortunately, if you had to guess what that ends
up being, it would look a lot like it did with Brooklyn, where
he's maybe not available, where he's acting in ways and saying things and doing
things that just are not conducive to team success. They can be corrosive to
team chemistry, and eventually gets to the situation where he is looking to leave
again, and then you're just over a barrel for and knowing a feel bad
for you because this was so easy to see coming based on his track record,
Like, I don't know which outcome I prefer staying or leaving, so
because it makes me so uncomfortable. I didn't grade this one, but I
just, I just it has to be like a D or an F because
I think it's just from the outset. For me, the idea that Kyrie
Irving is going to solve your problems is a flawed, flawed premise. It
just I don't I don't know, I can't get there. So I understand
that you know you need top end talent, but I just have never found
a way to feel good about Irving being on this team with the stakes of
if this goes as bad as possible, Luka don Chich is the next superstar
to ask to be traded like that's not an unreasonable thing to suspect as possible.
So that's that's a long way of saying, I just I can't be
in the Kyrie ring business if I'm if I'm a team that has any real
aspirations. How about the other side, it's a little cleaner. But what'd
you do for Brooklyn here? I gave them in a minus. I wondered
if and Oh very quickly to answer Brent in the chat saying I have no
wishe with Kyler Ris because he will be your free agent? Kai I could
still end up with the Lakers. I agree it could happen, but it
has to happen with him taking a pay cut, because as I mentioned before,
you can't possibly you can. I think, ever to the math,
like working under the hard, it would be Kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis,
Lebron Jamesons a bunch of minimums that's not bankable. We know all these guys
are gonna miss games at this point, so I'm not ruling out the Lakers,
but it would take some pretty substantive financial concessions on Kyrie's part, which
I just don't think that he's going to be willing to make. Even how
he left Brooklyn, because it seems like he wanted his bird rights to transfer.
As you mentioned, the net side of things, I gave him an
a minus here. I've wondered whether because Kevin Durant was moved shouldn't have changed
the calculus of what they targeted in at Kyrie Irving trade of getting more future
assets than they did, And I said, in theory, yes, But
then I sat back and I asked who was giving them more future assets?
You got the equivalent at minimum of two first round picks in the twenty twenty
nine first and Dorian Finny Smith at minimum, and it adds up to more
than first round equity because you have Din Witty, you have those two seconds.
And what other team was going to beat that offer? Maybe the Lakers.
But if you're the Lakers and you knew that you could get De'angelo Russell,
Malik Beasley, Jared Vanderbilt while getting rid of Russell Westbrook and only giving
up one first round pick, would you have preferred that to giving up two
first and two swaps and maybe Austin Reeves for Kyrie Irving. I think there's
even as much of Lebron wanted to play with Kyrie, there's a chance that
they would have preferred the depth while maintaining some of their trade assets moving forward.
But aside from them, that was it like there was no team that
was coming and beating this offer. And so I think the Nets did well
in a situation that they absolutely contributed to by handing the franchise over to Kyrie
Irving, Kim and drant By not sort of taking a hard line stance sooner
By even when he was looking for other teams as part of a sign in
trade, like them letting him them giving him that ultimatum or allowing him to
have that search, and then the resolution being he's just coming back, but
we don't want to extend him. Still like they needed to have a more
coherent opinion on the future of Kyrie Irving, and they failed to do that.
So everything he did, there's also the stuff that they failed to do
as well. But they still got great value here, and that Dallas Mavericks
pick is not only unprotected, but it postdates Luca's current contract by at least
two years. It's two years after his player option, so it's three years
that could be. That's almost maybe too far, because if Luca's gonna agitate
to get out, it's going to be the at least, you know,
maybe the year before his deals up, and so giving the Mavericks time to
rebound. But to get that pick so far off into the distance of a
team that even if Kyrie sticks around, he's gonna be getting up there in
age by that point, I think it was a solid bet to make again
relative to a market that I honestly believe and we are yet to hear.
Differently, it was the Lakers and the Mavericks for Kyrie. I don't buy
I buy the Sun's interest tangentially like you, Devin Booker is so young a
twenty twenty nine Mavericks pick to me, even though they have Luca beats out
of Suns pick in twenty twenty nine at this point. So I think under
the circumstances, and I also just feel like Phoenix was kind of just playing
Galaxy brain negotiation, where it's well, why would we give up all any
stuff for Kyrie Irving when we're gonna be in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes once he's
traded. So I just I can't fully buy Phoenix's interest to that accent.
But I think this was a you know, Cam Johnson or not. Kevin
Spencer didn't what he is not hitting threes anymore, apparently only does that in
Dallas. Jordan Finny Smith is sub twenty seven percent from three in brook and
it's my fact your dad and those guys should normalize. But I think it
was an a minus for Brooklyn. Yeah, I'm a big fan of the
I don't know if it's a conspiracy theory or it's just kind of like a
diabolical approach by Brooklyn, but like, let's send in this saboteur and get
that first round pick out in the future, because if if anyone can just
completely destroy a franchise in the span of like several weeks, it's him.
And so suddenly we're just we're just adding to the potential value of that future
first we have, even if it's way down the line, but like,
there's there's a real possibility that Dallas is just like is totally undone by this,
and then suddenly that twenty nine first round pick is like it's how we
would have viewed some of those Lakers, those twenty seven and twenty nine Lakers
picks. Maybe even more so because everyone assumes the Lakers can go get free
agents in Dallas basically has never done that. So I mean it's right at
least right, it's a it's a fun angle. So I don't have a
lot to add there. I think the Nets did great. You know,
your B plus feel feels about right to me. I have the next one.
This is the James Wiseman to Detroit super trade, which, as you
noted in your initial write up, is really two separate ones, but it
involves the Hawks, Pistons, Warriors, and Blazers. I think it became
one. By the way, I'm not yeah, so I think it was
reported to severyones, but I think it was folded into one just giant as
mega deal. So that's how we're looking at it. And and essentially the
principles here are the Hawks are getting City Bay, the Pistons got James Wiseman,
the Warriors got Gary Payton the second and some second round picks, and
the Blazers got Kevin Knox and a whole bunch of second round picks. Five.
So the let's you know, get out of the get the small stuff
out of the way first. Sadiqu Bay has been pretty good for the Hawks.
They needed three point shooting. He's hit a ton of threes. He
hit more than half of his threes so far with the team. They've won
his minutes, which is just like, yeah, if you have a guy
that's hitting half of his threes of decent volume, chances are you're gonna win
those minutes. If it's if he's not playing a ton, he's not that
good of a shooter. He's a career thirty six percent guy. I think
he can be better than that. I think he still has defense upside,
So that's you know, considering what Atlanta gave up. Totally fine if he
if they end up paying him like DeAndre Hunter, which is apparently part of
the reason Detroit wanted to move off of him, because he was going to
have pretty wild extension demands in the neighborhood of like ninety million. Not great,
but it's not like he gave up a ton again, So that's a
bee for the Hawks for me, let's get to let's just do wise with
the Wiseman's side of it next. I think we disagree on this a little
bit earlier based on your initial grade. I gave Detroit a B plus and
it has nothing to do with Wiseman looking really good with the Pistons once now
that he's free of the Warriors and their two timelines and short short leashes and
sort of failure to accept his mistakes, like he's just kind of the same
guy, makes tons of mistakes, can't catch the basketball, will never high
point a rebound, has not yet, has yet to do it, And
all the time I've watched him slow to rotate somehow shrinks when he can test
shots and is not a massive human that's super athletic. All of a sudden,
when he has to go up and contest in traffic, all these other
all these problems are still there. I still give Detroit to B plus because
Wiseman is just the type of bylow whatever you want to call him, lottery
ticket, you know, high risk, high ceiling, low floor type of
talent that you should just be in the business of trying to acquire if you
have the worst record in the league. And I guess me, feeling good
about the Pistons getting Wiseman requires that I don't care that about the positional overlap,
because you know, Jalen durn Marvin Bagley, if you want to throw
him in there, who just should You're so like, yeah, there's overlap.
But so the worst case scenario is that several of those guys become really
good and you have to figure out what to do with playing time or trading
some of them. That seems like a great problem, and I think it's
a problem Detroit should hope it runs into because otherwise, you know, we're
not going to acquire this like lottery ticket guy, because we already have centers.
One of them is a teenager. We're pretty sure he's gonna be No,
you can't know anything about Jalen during Yet you have to just stockpile high
upside guys the greatest extent possible. So that's my analysis the Wiseman trade.
He might stuck forever, but he might be good, and Detroit should be
willing to take that risk. The Warriors I killed him. Do you have
anything on those two teams? On Atlanta or Detroit before I power through the
other two, I would I'd be I'm rock solid with an Atlanta B plus.
I mean, they gave up a lot of second rounders, but to
deck Bay, like you said, has been good. I don't know what
this implies about or they will want to pay him. I do think Detroit
sort of too early. I'm like, Okay, he wants DeAndre Hunter money,
but he's only extension eligible like this, he's not a restricted. He's
not even extension eligible, right, yeah, like the free agency next next
summer. Yeah. So, I mean, to get out in front of
that was fine, But just to decide not so. I liked it for
Atlanta overall, to just decide that you didn't want to be in the Sadique
Bay business is Detroit right now? Though for another big That's what still gives
me pause. Wiseman. I just banked on him not playing well in Detroit,
especially given the confines of their offense. He's definitely been better than I've
expected, and from admittedly what little life set of him in Detroit so far.
But like that being said, is just it's not just about okay,
and if Jalen Durn's hurt at the moment, like you can find minutes for
him. I get the upside play. I just don't understand what it says
about the theory of Detroit's roster. And you had Troy Troy Weaver excuse me,
talking about, well, Milwaukee plays two biggs and Cleveland plays two biggs
and just you know, presumably Las Jackson pointed this out on the Detroit Badboys
podcast. You would like one of those two bigs to be able to play
lockdown defense, which neither Wiseman nor Durn do right now, I think Durn's
potential, Yeah, there's definitely through the roof there when you look at his
mobility. But I just I don't get it. And you know the fact
that Whiston's playing well or showing flashes, now, okay, great, Like
what's gonna happen when I mean, like just long term between him and Duran
there it feels like it's going to come to a head. And look,
you got to make a decision on him pretty soon because he's extension knowledgeable this
year. You shouldn't give him one. Although they gave Marvin Bagley a contract
for three years all guaranteed. But aren't you k I can't tell you guys
fuck. I don't know if you mean we suck or if we fuck.
And that's a compliment. I'm gonna take it as a compliment. Yeah,
But I just I don't I get it from a talent perspective for Detroit,
I just don't love, as I said, what it necessarily infers about the
direction or lack of vision with how they want to flesh out this roster.
Is there is there a package that's so it's not necessarily what Detroit gave up.
It's not so much that they essentially gave up Bay to get Wiseman.
It's just the idea for you that because I'm not saying like we could we
could just disagree. I don't and who the fuck knows who's right? Like
it's going to take three years figure that out. But like, is it
just the fact that it's the positional thing, and it's like what what it
says about? Because to me, I would take Weaver's comments as like this
is just a substitute for what I want to say, which is we're pretty
bad and we're taking home run swings on guys that we might and it might
be a strikeout. Like that's because he can't say that. He can't say
or that we're not confident that Durn's going to be great because we can't be.
But like that has to be how they feel. Is it just that
there's too many centers here and it's hard to envision these, you know,
any two pull any two of these working out like long term together? Is
that? Is that like the hang up? Yes? And then also just
like so you kept Bogdanovich, which if the offers sucked them all for it,
Like I don't think he hurts your development, but are you and he
kept Alec Burks as well? Are you super committed to winning next year?
And like that also worries me, But then it runs counter to what you
just did with the Wiseman trade, and so yes, we need to let
it play out. And the opportunity cost was not steep. I do think
it was just a little or that they decided, hey, we're done being
in the sadiqu Bay business. They just thought he was never gonna be maybe
the quintessential three D wing and might have been better suited with the role that
he's going to have an Atlanta. Okay, fine, but I thought that
was an odd decision to make at the time. But my biggest concern is,
just as you outlaid, I don't understand like what the vision is for
this roster. And if it's yeah, we suck, We're taking as many
swings as possible, you still have to kind of juggle those swings in tandem
with one another at some point, and so I'm more interested to see what
this kind of means for next season, especially when like okay, Kade will
be available at that point presumably, and then maybe it helps that Jay and
Ivy will be another year deeper into his development. I just I don't necessarily
understand the Pistons. They just seem caught in this weird space, and for
a team that has some top end prospects on the roster, I would like
to feel better about their direction or have more clarification on it than I actually
you But hey, look, maybe Wiseman and Durhan can end up playing together,
or they're both just there and it's working, and Wiseman rehabilitates his value
or establishes any value whatsoever over the long term, I would root for that.
I don't want to see players fail. I just this was not the
team for me that I thought made sense as a as a longer term Wiseman
destination, I think too, just to argue against myself, like zooming all
the way out. It's kind of a wild move to consolidate your young talent
at a position center that just doesn't really matter anymore or matters way less than
it used to. Like, yeah, if you had like Brooklyn has a
million wings or you know that kind of thing, just oh we got we
got four centers that can basically only play center, and someone like Vagley sort
of can't play center or power forward. So it's just like, this is
not the place to have like a surplus of guys that you need to that
you're going to one pay and two need to get on the floor, just
because the devaluation of the center just continues unless you're a superstar MVP candidate.
So the Blazer side is kind of to me, it's men. You know,
we've basically given up Gary Payton the second for Kevin Knox and a bunch
of second rounders. And I cribbed this from you and your an initial evaluation,
which I thought was right, which is that you kind of if you
just look at this on its own, that's just paying Peyton in free agency
and moving him for some seconds is kind of like, what was the point
of all this even if he was hurt, which is another aspect to this
deal. But the Blazers added other guys that can kind of approximate what Peyton
did, and one of them matist Table I think, as who shot it
really well. Who knows if that's going to sustain. But if you're talking
about which of which of these defense first guys would you rather have for the
next couple of years, or maybe Tyble still is ahead of Payton because of
the age difference, because of the length, because of you know, the
possibility that Tyble's going to shoot it more, shoot it more accurately. Like
I don't know, Peyton took a while to become someone that you didn't just
totally ignore on the perimeter. I think he's, you know, and really
the sample of him being a good enough shooter to avoid that treatment is pretty
small still the year plus, So I mean I gave the Blazers a B
minus just because in totality, I don't really feel like they hurt themselves that
much. And if Tywill is someone they end up keeping at a reasonable deal,
maybe cheaper than they were going to be on the hook for for Peyton,
that's totally fine. The Warriors, I kind of killed them, and
it's unfair because I didn't ding the Suns for Durant being hurt, and I
am essentially or at least partially dinging the Warriors for Peyton being hurt. That's
kind of a messy thing to talk about because we don't we don't know what
Portland knew, We don't know what the Warriors should have known. But ultimately
the Warriors admitted failure. They've drafted the wrong guy. They traded James Wiseman,
and they got back someone that cannot help them right now, and we
don't know when Peyton will be able to help them. And the whole point
of this was James Wiseman cannot help us. Gary Peyton has and we know
can except he's hurt. And so it was just you've given up this this
asset that you held on too for too long, and you traded it for
something that is basically a zero. You're going to save a little bit of
money, but you know, that's just the Warriors spend so much that I
don't know how much, you know, tens of millions of luxury tax savings
really matters. If Peyton gets healthy and contributes to the Warriors finally figuring it
out this season, I guess my evaluation would change. And I think,
certainly he does seem like someone that will be valuable next year and the year
after. But it's just such a rough it's a rough. Look you you
waited too long, you gave up Wiseman, and you're just not You're not
better. You're certainly not better in terms of your you know, five year
ceiling. I don't know if there was a scenario or Wiseman was going to
be on the team that long, even into a second contract, but it's
just it hasn't. The one thing the Warriors needed was short term help and
they don't have it. So I mean it's I gave him a D plus,
even if like incomplete might be a fair grade if you didn't want to,
you know, just pass judgment right away. I gave me seeing I'd
probably stick with it. You can't criticize them for trading Wiseman for the return
that they did at this time, but you can absolutely criticize them for bag
holding on Wiseman, which they were pearl clutching, which they did. And
I think that's the hardest thing to reconcile and then to not understand fully what
you were getting. And Gary Payton a second with his injury, like there's
a lack of I think due diligence on their part. I just can't believe
that the Blazers withheld information to point like where they're hiding confidential health reports there
so and like the Warriors also kind of knew that Gary Payton was dealing with
injuries last year, albeit I think it was a separate one. He's dealing
with a wrist injury right or elbow during the playoffs, whatever it was.
So I just it's not a great look for them, but you could lean
more towards incomplete. I think a straight sea is fine because the value relative
to where Wiseman was, it's acceptable. It never should have got to this
low before you actually moved him. There was more sheen on him a year
a year and a half ago, when you kind of understood that, Okay,
this is not going to work out, and so for them to just
be you know, they won the title last year, so how much does
this really matter? But what would they be in a much better position this
year next year? And they moved Washman Tuner absolutely, and I think it's
fair to dig them for that. I wonder, like, because it's you
know, right, I don't think the Blazers did anything, you know,
really suspect, but like all the Warriors and presumably players front office, they
like I imagine they're still in contact with Peyton like he was on the team
all last year, because do you think there was a phone call where like
Bob Meyers is talking to Peyton's agent or you know, Steph Curry's talking to
Peyton. They're like are you good? Like? And Payton wants to be
on the Warrior so bad that he's like one hundred percent, I'll be ready
to go day one. Get me over there. Like there's just a lot
of the disconnect is weird given the relationship between the parties involved. So you
know, I don't know. I don't know how how that factors and the
other thing that kind of if you're a Warriors fan, I think maybe you
might be a little annoyed by is you could have just resigned Peyton, you
know, and then you can trade Wiseman for something else. You probably don't
have de Vincenzo, who's been really good for them, who they're just gonna
lose in free agency this year this summer anyway. But but it just require
him for Moses Moody at nice you're a trade deadline er. That's perfect,
that's exactly what's gonna happen. But you just the idea that you could have
had. You could have had Peyton if you wanted to, and just chose
not to. And now, oh yeah, we change our minds, like
we're gonna we're gonna give up our number two overall pick for him. Kind
of a kind of a tough, tough turn of events. I do think
our impressions have the potential to really brighten up. If Gary Payton in the
second which doesn't seem like he will be, but if he's healthy playing in
the postseason, because he becomes he's like everything they need. He's smaller,
but like he defends like a bigger wing. Yep. And they need defense.
I mean they just their defense, especially on the road, has been
I mean it's one of the worst defenses in the league. And and just
you can't your defense might not be great. But if Gary Payton the second
is on the floor, it's gonna be disruptive and like at least and he's
gonna play really hard and he's not gonna take plays off or screw up or
it's like just get him out there and he might, like you said,
he might really just address the most pressing need for this team. But who
knows, right, we don't know when he's gonna play. This was very
instructive. Do you want to take us out of here? Yeah, although
like so ultimately I don't think our opinions have changed a whole lot on any
of these, and that has mostly to do with the sample and the fact
that a lot of these were designed than you were not saying that at the
top of the podcast. Yeah, you guys would just go read Dan's live
grades from a month ago, and you're pretty much gonna get the justices.
Okay, everybody thinks for listening, anybody that had comments and questions. We
appreciate it. If you are not already, please follow us on our socials
at Hardwood Knocks on Twitter and TikTok at Hardwood on Shore Knocks on Instagram.
Subscribe on YouTube, make sure you tell your friends and enemies great review,
subscribe everyplace else, and as all is undiscussed, yet again, both players
that we love to shout out. Shouts to Frank Milikina and apologies to Jared Allen