1 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:21,239 What is crack Lack and fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am Damp Valley coming 2 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:26,320 at you with my certified van haabulous co host Grant Hughes, who's just so 3 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:31,320 unbelievably dedicated as am I that we have two live podcasts smack in the middle 4 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:34,840 of the workday because we know that's what the masses want and have time to 5 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,920 view. We're going to take a look back at the NBA trade deadline, 6 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,640 which was exactly one month ago today, Happy one month a versary to the 7 00:00:41,719 --> 00:00:45,640 NBA trade deadline. We're gonna go through the biggest moves, regrade them or 8 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:51,159 reanalyze them based off our initial thoughts. But first the question everyone is dying 9 00:00:51,759 --> 00:00:56,079 dying to know the answer to Grant, how the heck are you doing? 10 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,359 I'm doing well, thank you for asking. You know what else is? 11 00:01:00,399 --> 00:01:03,759 It's not just a month from the deadline, it's exactly a month until the 12 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,280 end of the regular season. So what what better you know? If you're 13 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,120 in the symmetry? What better time to look at these trades? Kind of 14 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,400 nice, that wouldn't be called the book end. Whatever that is right smack 15 00:01:14,439 --> 00:01:17,000 in the middle. That's good, that's perfect this is this is the right 16 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,159 time to do this. I think, does it feel like the time since 17 00:01:19,159 --> 00:01:23,680 the trade deadline has flown by or taken forever? We're both flown by because 18 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,920 the All Star break was in there too, So yeah, I mean we 19 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,000 talked, you know, a few weeks ago about how that break was nice. 20 00:01:32,079 --> 00:01:34,120 But the other the weird thing is like, I don't know how you 21 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:38,079 feel about this, but for a lot of these trades, uh, it 22 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,079 has felt like we're still kind of waiting to see, you know, what 23 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,840 the results are going to be. You know, we we just like the 24 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,959 Lakers for example, and now we'll talk about it like with Durant. So 25 00:01:48,959 --> 00:01:52,480 we haven't gotten a lot of looks at you know, oh this team, 26 00:01:52,519 --> 00:01:56,599 this revamps team, what are you know, how different is it now or 27 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,560 how much better or how much worse is it? So we have a lot 28 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,319 of like, I don't know, we still have a lot of a sample 29 00:02:02,359 --> 00:02:05,959 that we need to judge and in some cases we're not going to get it. 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,000 But that's that's another thing that makes like looking back at these trades interesting 31 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:12,000 is that we just for some of them, it's like, I don't know, 32 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,560 we still we still need to see way more to be sure. Yeah, 33 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,560 and we went through this for Bleacher Report too, So it's an exercise 34 00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:23,280 we have clearly thought a lot about at the moment. So so I guess 35 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,039 we should start with let's start with the Kevin Durant deal, which was so, 36 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,039 do you want to take us through? Since you led this one when 37 00:02:29,039 --> 00:02:30,680 we were regrading them, can you lead us through the Kevin Durant deal? 38 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,840 Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we need to go over the 39 00:02:34,879 --> 00:02:38,319 full trade, but I mean everybody remembers basically it's Durant and t J. 40 00:02:38,479 --> 00:02:42,639 Warren to the Suns for Michail Bridges, Cam Johnson. What is it? 41 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,840 One, two, three, four, unprotected? First, they can't have 42 00:02:46,199 --> 00:02:49,439 a whole bunch of firsts and some swaps. It's just like the most you 43 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:53,840 could possibly give up more or less. And now, as I was alluding 44 00:02:53,879 --> 00:02:58,840 to, Kevin Durant sprained his ankle and warmups on Wednesday night, and so 45 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,319 there's you know, reporting is still early, but I've seen grade two ankle 46 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,319 sprain. I've seen four to six weeks. I've seen maybe for the season. 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,400 He was in a boot last night. We know that. So I 48 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:15,039 don't know how you feel about that effect on the trade or how it should 49 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,360 change the way we evaluate it personally, I'm not really you know, And 50 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,479 this is gonna be inconsistent because there's gonna be another trade where an injury is 51 00:03:22,479 --> 00:03:24,599 going to affect my analysis of it, but not so much in this case, 52 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,400 because this was just always about the ceiling, and for me just to 53 00:03:28,439 --> 00:03:31,919 go to the Sun's grade first, it's just a flat a. Even even 54 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:36,520 if we've seen three games now of Durant, they were all awesome, like 55 00:03:36,599 --> 00:03:40,400 he just fit in perfectly, didn't take anything off the table. They were 56 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:45,479 all big wins. I'm trying to let me pull the stats up here. 57 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,560 So his shooting lines, you know, twenty three points out ten of fifteen, 58 00:03:47,599 --> 00:03:52,919 shooting twenty points on seven of ten, thirty seven on twelve of seventeen. 59 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,159 It's like a joke, right, and those are all three wins. 60 00:03:54,240 --> 00:04:00,520 And so whatever questions you had about and most people didn't, will will Kevin 61 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,960 Durant be difficult to integrate into a team. No, hell no, he 62 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:08,520 will not. He is the most scalable superstar basically ever. So it looked 63 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,120 great and all we care about is the ceiling because we at least I and 64 00:04:12,159 --> 00:04:15,680 I think you, to some degree thought that this trade makes the Suns, 65 00:04:15,719 --> 00:04:17,480 you know, on par with Denver or right there in the West. I 66 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:21,040 haven't changed my opinion on that the injury clouds it, but he's like, 67 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,120 you're not gonna say this was anything other than a home run. And then 68 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,439 the other side of it unless you have do you want before I get to 69 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,040 Bridges specifically in the nets, do you how does the injury affect, if 70 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:35,680 at all, your opinion on the Sun's side of it doesn't because the especially 71 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,480 because we don't know the severity of it just yet. And also even if 72 00:04:39,519 --> 00:04:42,959 he comes back not until the playoffs, he's just shown that he'll come back 73 00:04:42,959 --> 00:04:46,079 from injury and dominate anyway soon. If he missed the next like three weeks 74 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:47,319 or whatever it was, they're gonna be fine. I gave them an a 75 00:04:47,439 --> 00:04:50,439 minus the first time around, and I think after seeing it on the floor 76 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:56,839 and just Devin Booker too, just absolutely thriving during the kd era alongside Kiddy, 77 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,759 not just during the game that Katie didn't play on Wednesday night, that 78 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,120 made me feel even better about it. I gave him an a minus initially 79 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,600 because I'll just say and I talked about this because online podcasts they didn't win. 80 00:05:05,959 --> 00:05:09,079 You got Kevin Durant, so you want, but they didn't win any 81 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:14,399 aspect of the negotiation. It was they didn't broker picks swaps, and I 82 00:05:14,439 --> 00:05:16,639 get them. They were never getting out of it while keeping mcal Bridges like 83 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,360 they tried to sandwich DeAndre in there instead. It wasn't gonna work, So 84 00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:25,000 I understand that. But then at the end where Matt Ishbiel was just like, 85 00:05:25,079 --> 00:05:27,360 yeah, we'll give you Jay Crowder because you all of a sudden said 86 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,319 you weren't going to trade us Kevin Rant because of Jake Crowder. I get 87 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,920 that you were paying for the exclusivity of the window still, but you were 88 00:05:32,959 --> 00:05:38,000 a market of one and like just didn't win any aspects of the negotiations. 89 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,720 So there was a little bit of new owner syndrome there to me. I 90 00:05:40,759 --> 00:05:43,279 don't know if you felt the same way, But again, you can't lose 91 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,160 this trade. Eleven times out of ten, I would still make it. 92 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,120 It just would have been nice to see them like protect their flank a little 93 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,800 bit. Yeah, that's totally fair, I think, and I mean that 94 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:58,040 ties into the net side of it. Bridges just and like, look, 95 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,160 he's not so the one of the narratives with Bridges this season, and I'm 96 00:06:02,199 --> 00:06:05,000 not narrative in a negative way, like it's bullshit. But one of the 97 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,319 real storylines for him was he was expanding his game and that had to do 98 00:06:09,399 --> 00:06:12,240 with you know, Chris Paul was hurt, Devin Booker was hurt, Cam 99 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:15,199 Johnson was hurt. So he was sort of just like the only guy I 100 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,240 left, you know, of any you know, substantial star adjacent quality to 101 00:06:19,319 --> 00:06:21,959 do anything. And so he was running a couple more pick and rolls, 102 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,959 and he was getting a little more you know, into the self creation bag 103 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,560 on offense and just generally being on the ball more. Just a little bit 104 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,839 nothing crazy. I mean, we talked about it. And then he gets 105 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,920 to Brooklyn and suddenly it's it's like, oh my god, this guy is 106 00:06:34,959 --> 00:06:41,079 he a frontline you know, first option star. The numbers, so which's 107 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,759 just like a joke to look at these twenty six and a half points, 108 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:46,120 five point three boards, three point three assists, is shooting split fifty two 109 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,240 point six percent from the field, forty eight point one from deep, ninety 110 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,839 two two from the line, Like that's all gonna come down there's just no 111 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,639 one. No one sustains that level of offensive efficiency on that kind of volume. 112 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,199 But like what we thought was happening with Phoenix is really happening in Brooklyn. 113 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,920 Like his his usage rate was nineteen point two percent, it's twenty seven 114 00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:12,399 point three now sixty point two percent of his that we've kind of watched this 115 00:07:12,519 --> 00:07:15,399 or I did on the actual write up, but the gist is that like 116 00:07:15,399 --> 00:07:19,800 fifteen percent more of his field goals are unassisted now, so he's not just 117 00:07:19,879 --> 00:07:25,519 dependent on he's the three in D label like kind of done. I mean, 118 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,600 he is that he can be three maybe the best three in D player 119 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,959 in the league, but he's so much more than that. And I really 120 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:35,120 focus most of my analysis of this trade on him because I think, in 121 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,839 addition to all those picks and you know, Cam Johnson is not nothing and 122 00:07:40,519 --> 00:07:44,040 all that other stuff, just the fact that Bridges might be so much better 123 00:07:44,279 --> 00:07:47,480 than he showed himself to be in Phoenix. H this is an a for 124 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,199 the Nets. I went as all around on this just because everybody got what 125 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,040 they wanted, and I think the Nets maybe got more than they expected. 126 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,800 So just the Bridges evolution really just puts this over the top for Brooklyn. 127 00:08:00,839 --> 00:08:03,920 You don't want to trade one of the best players of all time, but 128 00:08:03,959 --> 00:08:07,920 if you have to, this is a great way to ease the sting of 129 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:13,240 that. And as you alluded to, like you know, there was nobody 130 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,120 else really to run up this offer. It was just kind of like he 131 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,279 wants Durant wants to go to Phoenix. That's just what it is. It's 132 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:24,879 not like the market was, you know, forcing Phoenix's He just got so 133 00:08:24,959 --> 00:08:28,959 much more than you should have been able to hear. Yeah, and just 134 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,920 I mean the progression from Michael Bridges to echo what you said, Yes, 135 00:08:31,959 --> 00:08:33,879 it was underway in Phoenix. But like this year, you know, the 136 00:08:33,879 --> 00:08:37,399 thing you had written about, like his two point unassisted, like the sheriff's 137 00:08:37,399 --> 00:08:41,080 baskets that are going on assist from two point range skyrocketed. Just overall, 138 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,559 looking at the progression from last year and even how stark it's been for Phoenix 139 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,960 to Brooklyn. Eighteen point one percent of his buckets last season went unassisted. 140 00:08:50,279 --> 00:08:52,879 Then with the Suns this year that was up to twenty eight point eight percent, 141 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,960 and now we're looking at about forty percent of all his field goals going 142 00:08:56,039 --> 00:09:00,759 unassisted. That's a huge jump, and so just like if if he maintains 143 00:09:00,799 --> 00:09:03,360 it, I don't know. I would bet against him being a one A 144 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,480 on a really good team too. But like, what were we ever talking 145 00:09:07,519 --> 00:09:11,919 about him? Is maybe during our hotter takes we said he could be the 146 00:09:11,919 --> 00:09:13,879 second best player in our championship team. But is he now maybe a one 147 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,039 B or is he a certifiable number two? And the fact that this is 148 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,320 just eminently on the table, now that's a big that's a big deal for 149 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,279 Brooklyn, especially because he's under contract. They don't have their own picks, 150 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:31,240 and so if they want to even see like if they want to keep their 151 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,000 optionality open, you have Bridges to be like, oh well we could keep 152 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:35,799 him or what would he command on the trademarket this summer if you turned around 153 00:09:35,799 --> 00:09:39,879 and flipped them again? Right, I mean you heard the like four first, 154 00:09:39,039 --> 00:09:43,600 Right, there's whispered that that's what they thought they could get for him 155 00:09:43,639 --> 00:09:46,759 shortly after they acquired him. I would love to know if we're talking like 156 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,000 it can't be four first, like they gave up to Phoenix. But like, 157 00:09:50,279 --> 00:09:56,320 I just think zooming out what's happening with Bridges is a really good because 158 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,879 because I didn't think. I think I kind of you know, downplayed always 159 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,919 doing more. He's capable of this because with Phoenix his efficiency was down, 160 00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:07,240 and you know, with as his volume and sort of responsibilities increased, I 161 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,600 kind of thought like, maybe he can be a little better. But I 162 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,919 never foresaw this. And it's a good reminder that every once in a while, 163 00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:16,000 you know, every player thinks they can do more. And not to 164 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,559 say that Bridges was kind of clamoring for more responsibilities, but every once in 165 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,879 a while you get this, which is, you know, and there's not 166 00:10:22,919 --> 00:10:26,159 a lot of them, like Jimmy Butler going from he's always a nice role 167 00:10:26,159 --> 00:10:28,840 player, it's always a good defenders. Oh he's a first option on a 168 00:10:28,879 --> 00:10:33,200 title threat for like the next eight years. You know, every once in 169 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,200 a while you get that kind of level up, and Bridges, I think, 170 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,799 is much closer to that than the guy you can sort of incrementally give 171 00:10:39,799 --> 00:10:43,080 more responsibilities too. So it's it's a good reminder that you can't just dismiss, 172 00:10:43,759 --> 00:10:48,720 you know, guys putting up more volume or doing different stuff because the 173 00:10:48,759 --> 00:10:50,759 circumstances called for it, like they did in Phoenix. Sometimes it's real. 174 00:10:52,039 --> 00:10:54,679 Yeah, And the thing I would just caution very quickly to wract this up 175 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:58,840 is mcal Bridge had been spectacular, but that's also on the bottom five of 176 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,200 office efficiencies. The Durant trade not on him. He hasn't even played. 177 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,879 He was he wasn't eligible for the first game that they played without Katie, 178 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,559 But like, still that would be something key mind is like, can he 179 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,600 be the driving force the number one on a you know, a top ten 180 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,720 offense. I don't. I don't know, but what he's showing now is 181 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,519 is incredible. We should probably hit the other side of this, which is 182 00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:20,960 the order we actually went in when we regraded it. So Kyrie Irving to 183 00:11:20,039 --> 00:11:24,600 Dallas just to rehash the package there. It was the Dallas Mavericks sent Spencer 184 00:11:24,639 --> 00:11:28,320 Dinwitty, Dorian Finnie Smith, a twenty twenty seven second, a twenty twenty 185 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:33,200 nine first unprotected, and then the twenty twenty nine first to the Dallas Mavericks 186 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,360 for Kyrie Irving and mark Yeth Morris, who I forgot to include in my 187 00:11:35,399 --> 00:11:39,000 initial write up when I when I said it, I just forgot that he 188 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,559 sort of existed. I did not grade this the first time around. I 189 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,000 graded all these trades except for the Kyrie one because it happened for the trade 190 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,879 deadline. I can tell you unequickically, based off the live show we did, 191 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,960 I probably would have given them a D minus or an F. I 192 00:11:52,039 --> 00:11:56,679 gave it a C the second time around, just because the same semblance of 193 00:11:56,759 --> 00:11:58,799 risk is there. And I don't know if you've already seen the video that 194 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:03,879 he posted that's floating around there, going off on how people watch him for 195 00:12:03,919 --> 00:12:07,559 three hours and thinks that they know him. And I find that video funny 196 00:12:07,879 --> 00:12:11,519 because it's further evidence of a disconnect from reality because he specifically mentions, you're 197 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,159 not considering the other twenty one hours of my life. It is literally the 198 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,360 other twenty one hours of the day that concerns everyone with you, no one, 199 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:22,320 everyone is at ease when they watch on the basketball court for those three 200 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,720 hours. That's when the opinion of yourself is at its highest. It's nay, 201 00:12:26,799 --> 00:12:30,840 dear, you're at your most radioactive off the basketball court. So please, 202 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:33,679 like I just talk about disconnective narcissism, is that a thing? Like 203 00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:37,399 he's just mind blowing. So this risk is there because he said all the 204 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:43,639 right things except for that post. But speaking of the media sentring the Mavericks. 205 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,200 He said all the right things. He hasn't wanted to talk about his 206 00:12:46,279 --> 00:12:50,519 future, and I think that's fine. That's that's his prerogative here. I 207 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:52,399 think that he will wind up resigning in Dallas, which is part of this 208 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,159 grade because you don't force you away out of Brooklyn unless you're concerned about a 209 00:12:56,159 --> 00:13:00,639 team having your bird rights, and the Dallas now has the bird rights. 210 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,039 They're pot committed because of what they gave up for him and sort of just 211 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,639 let him walk for nothing, or even trying to move him as part of 212 00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:07,679 a sign and trade, which well, what's the market for that gonna be? 213 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,200 Yeah, okay, the Lakers, but they've already traded one of their 214 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,679 picks and they can't to be have Lebron Anthy Davis and Kyrie evering on your 215 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:20,120 paperrow and be hard capped just feel super unrealistic. And so I'm caking in 216 00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:22,000 this. He's like, Okay, he'll probably be back. Do I feel 217 00:13:22,039 --> 00:13:24,799 good about that? I have no idea, but I will say when you 218 00:13:24,879 --> 00:13:31,519 watch the MAVs, you can see the outline of a really good team that's 219 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,360 just not finished yet. Because Kyrie and Luca, the MAVs are beating opponents 220 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,559 by almost ten points per one hundred possessions. With them on the court, 221 00:13:37,759 --> 00:13:41,320 surprise surprise, they can't get stops. Surprise surprise. Jason Kidd doesn't want 222 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,200 to play them with Christian Wood. Surprise surprise. They're overly reliant on Josh 223 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,120 Green and Reggie Bullock and now just returned from injury, Maxi Kleiba on the 224 00:13:48,159 --> 00:13:52,600 defensive end. Those are all when you look at what they need with the 225 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:58,279 trade assets they still have because they can trade up to two first round picks 226 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,519 this summer. Still you have the ability to go out and I think I 227 00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:05,039 get finishing touches, which in theory is what you need now. If you're 228 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:09,279 counting on Kyrie Irving to be healthy and engaged, you just need finishing touches 229 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,159 around him. In Luca, I'm still wildly uncomfortable with this trade because I 230 00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:16,600 personally, and these are the lens through which we grade, these trades, 231 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,120 would not have tethered any part of Luka Dontrich's competitive window to Kyrie Irving, 232 00:14:22,159 --> 00:14:30,480 who is just the anti semitism stuff, the being away from the nets at 233 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,440 different points, the way he's submarine, all these different locker rooms, just 234 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,519 the thing that he said, how he can become a perpetual distraction just like 235 00:14:37,559 --> 00:14:39,799 that. I don't the fact that the Maps felt they needed to make this 236 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,559 risk is an indictment on their situation, and I think that still holds. 237 00:14:43,639 --> 00:14:48,200 But again, I want to reiterate, even the games they've lost, like 238 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,759 most with Kyrie and Luka Donte's, theyve played some pretty high end opponents for 239 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:52,960 the most part, and they've all got They've had some bad losses too, 240 00:14:54,159 --> 00:14:56,720 but they've gone into crunch time. There's a high level outcome for this team 241 00:14:56,799 --> 00:15:01,240 and I'm just curious as to whether they'll be able to you get the finishing 242 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,240 touches around them. However, and the final thing here, and I'm just 243 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:09,159 echoing this is Kyrie going to stay? Are you fine being in the lucrative 244 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,720 and long term Kyrie irving business? That is still very much up for debate, 245 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,840 and people will get mad at to see if any Mavericks Nars will say 246 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,840 this see is passing. They're passing. It's passing. So I think the 247 00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:26,759 thing so this is one of the trades that I haven't really nothing that I've 248 00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:31,960 seen on the floor has changed my opinion of it, because as you said, 249 00:15:31,559 --> 00:15:35,440 with talking specifically about Kyrie, I didn't really have any questions about how 250 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,639 this would work or how it would look in the actual games like that's I 251 00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:43,919 didn't think, you know, we always kind of wring our hands about there's 252 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,200 only one ball, how are Kyrie and Luca are going to co exist? 253 00:15:46,879 --> 00:15:50,039 I didn't really ever see that as a you know, a realistic thing to 254 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,000 be concerned about. It's all the other stuff, it's the other twenty one 255 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,639 hours. As you said, I think maybe we should. We got to 256 00:15:56,679 --> 00:16:00,200 come up with some kind of like that needs to become a thing that we're 257 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,120 concerned about Kyrie Irving's twenty one hours. But but I just as you were 258 00:16:04,159 --> 00:16:07,759 talking about it, I agree that he is likely to stay. Now I 259 00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:11,559 think it's maybe feels more likely than it did it was, call it a 260 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,000 coin flip or whatever when the trade went down. Seems reasonably likely that he 261 00:16:15,039 --> 00:16:18,679 will resign, and I can't decide if I think that's better or worse than 262 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,200 him leaving, you know, a free agency. And that's always been the 263 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:27,679 concern for me is I can't figure out which possible outcome makes me feel better 264 00:16:27,799 --> 00:16:32,120 about the trade. And that's just because if he leaves, that's rough, 265 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,000 right, you gave up at first, he gave up you know, real 266 00:16:34,039 --> 00:16:41,200 players during Phinney Smith specifically that helped you and helped you get to a conference 267 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:47,200 finals. However you feel about that run last year, I think him losing 268 00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:49,440 him having given that up would be bad, and I think the fallout with 269 00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:53,639 Luca being frustrated, like so what was that all even for? Is big. 270 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,720 But if you you consign or attach or tether, like you said yourself 271 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,919 to Kyrie Irving on a multi year deal, you're just signing up for like 272 00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:07,319 god knows what, And unfortunately, if you had to guess what that ends 273 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,160 up being, it would look a lot like it did with Brooklyn, where 274 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,759 he's maybe not available, where he's acting in ways and saying things and doing 275 00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:18,799 things that just are not conducive to team success. They can be corrosive to 276 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:25,400 team chemistry, and eventually gets to the situation where he is looking to leave 277 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,000 again, and then you're just over a barrel for and knowing a feel bad 278 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,640 for you because this was so easy to see coming based on his track record, 279 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,559 Like, I don't know which outcome I prefer staying or leaving, so 280 00:17:34,759 --> 00:17:38,400 because it makes me so uncomfortable. I didn't grade this one, but I 281 00:17:38,519 --> 00:17:42,440 just, I just it has to be like a D or an F because 282 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,359 I think it's just from the outset. For me, the idea that Kyrie 283 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,759 Irving is going to solve your problems is a flawed, flawed premise. It 284 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,440 just I don't I don't know, I can't get there. So I understand 285 00:17:56,519 --> 00:17:59,960 that you know you need top end talent, but I just have never found 286 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:03,519 a way to feel good about Irving being on this team with the stakes of 287 00:18:03,839 --> 00:18:07,119 if this goes as bad as possible, Luka don Chich is the next superstar 288 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,640 to ask to be traded like that's not an unreasonable thing to suspect as possible. 289 00:18:12,079 --> 00:18:15,000 So that's that's a long way of saying, I just I can't be 290 00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:18,680 in the Kyrie ring business if I'm if I'm a team that has any real 291 00:18:18,759 --> 00:18:22,960 aspirations. How about the other side, it's a little cleaner. But what'd 292 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,960 you do for Brooklyn here? I gave them in a minus. I wondered 293 00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:30,920 if and Oh very quickly to answer Brent in the chat saying I have no 294 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,920 wishe with Kyler Ris because he will be your free agent? Kai I could 295 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,519 still end up with the Lakers. I agree it could happen, but it 296 00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:40,160 has to happen with him taking a pay cut, because as I mentioned before, 297 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,400 you can't possibly you can. I think, ever to the math, 298 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,839 like working under the hard, it would be Kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis, 299 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,319 Lebron Jamesons a bunch of minimums that's not bankable. We know all these guys 300 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,160 are gonna miss games at this point, so I'm not ruling out the Lakers, 301 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:57,160 but it would take some pretty substantive financial concessions on Kyrie's part, which 302 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,319 I just don't think that he's going to be willing to make. Even how 303 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,119 he left Brooklyn, because it seems like he wanted his bird rights to transfer. 304 00:19:03,759 --> 00:19:06,279 As you mentioned, the net side of things, I gave him an 305 00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:11,680 a minus here. I've wondered whether because Kevin Durant was moved shouldn't have changed 306 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,519 the calculus of what they targeted in at Kyrie Irving trade of getting more future 307 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:18,400 assets than they did, And I said, in theory, yes, But 308 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,079 then I sat back and I asked who was giving them more future assets? 309 00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:26,279 You got the equivalent at minimum of two first round picks in the twenty twenty 310 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,799 nine first and Dorian Finny Smith at minimum, and it adds up to more 311 00:19:29,839 --> 00:19:32,960 than first round equity because you have Din Witty, you have those two seconds. 312 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:37,079 And what other team was going to beat that offer? Maybe the Lakers. 313 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,079 But if you're the Lakers and you knew that you could get De'angelo Russell, 314 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,079 Malik Beasley, Jared Vanderbilt while getting rid of Russell Westbrook and only giving 315 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:51,640 up one first round pick, would you have preferred that to giving up two 316 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,680 first and two swaps and maybe Austin Reeves for Kyrie Irving. I think there's 317 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,200 even as much of Lebron wanted to play with Kyrie, there's a chance that 318 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,559 they would have preferred the depth while maintaining some of their trade assets moving forward. 319 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,640 But aside from them, that was it like there was no team that 320 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,720 was coming and beating this offer. And so I think the Nets did well 321 00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:12,079 in a situation that they absolutely contributed to by handing the franchise over to Kyrie 322 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,400 Irving, Kim and drant By not sort of taking a hard line stance sooner 323 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,319 By even when he was looking for other teams as part of a sign in 324 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:26,359 trade, like them letting him them giving him that ultimatum or allowing him to 325 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,000 have that search, and then the resolution being he's just coming back, but 326 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:32,160 we don't want to extend him. Still like they needed to have a more 327 00:20:32,279 --> 00:20:36,480 coherent opinion on the future of Kyrie Irving, and they failed to do that. 328 00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:40,039 So everything he did, there's also the stuff that they failed to do 329 00:20:40,079 --> 00:20:42,839 as well. But they still got great value here, and that Dallas Mavericks 330 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:48,319 pick is not only unprotected, but it postdates Luca's current contract by at least 331 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,559 two years. It's two years after his player option, so it's three years 332 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,960 that could be. That's almost maybe too far, because if Luca's gonna agitate 333 00:20:56,039 --> 00:20:57,240 to get out, it's going to be the at least, you know, 334 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,640 maybe the year before his deals up, and so giving the Mavericks time to 335 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,720 rebound. But to get that pick so far off into the distance of a 336 00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:08,920 team that even if Kyrie sticks around, he's gonna be getting up there in 337 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,240 age by that point, I think it was a solid bet to make again 338 00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:18,079 relative to a market that I honestly believe and we are yet to hear. 339 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,559 Differently, it was the Lakers and the Mavericks for Kyrie. I don't buy 340 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:26,960 I buy the Sun's interest tangentially like you, Devin Booker is so young a 341 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,440 twenty twenty nine Mavericks pick to me, even though they have Luca beats out 342 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,000 of Suns pick in twenty twenty nine at this point. So I think under 343 00:21:36,039 --> 00:21:38,799 the circumstances, and I also just feel like Phoenix was kind of just playing 344 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:44,119 Galaxy brain negotiation, where it's well, why would we give up all any 345 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,279 stuff for Kyrie Irving when we're gonna be in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes once he's 346 00:21:47,279 --> 00:21:49,880 traded. So I just I can't fully buy Phoenix's interest to that accent. 347 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,640 But I think this was a you know, Cam Johnson or not. Kevin 348 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,960 Spencer didn't what he is not hitting threes anymore, apparently only does that in 349 00:21:56,039 --> 00:22:00,079 Dallas. Jordan Finny Smith is sub twenty seven percent from three in brook and 350 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,039 it's my fact your dad and those guys should normalize. But I think it 351 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,839 was an a minus for Brooklyn. Yeah, I'm a big fan of the 352 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,640 I don't know if it's a conspiracy theory or it's just kind of like a 353 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:14,680 diabolical approach by Brooklyn, but like, let's send in this saboteur and get 354 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,000 that first round pick out in the future, because if if anyone can just 355 00:22:18,079 --> 00:22:22,200 completely destroy a franchise in the span of like several weeks, it's him. 356 00:22:22,279 --> 00:22:26,720 And so suddenly we're just we're just adding to the potential value of that future 357 00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:27,799 first we have, even if it's way down the line, but like, 358 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,960 there's there's a real possibility that Dallas is just like is totally undone by this, 359 00:22:33,079 --> 00:22:37,200 and then suddenly that twenty nine first round pick is like it's how we 360 00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:40,400 would have viewed some of those Lakers, those twenty seven and twenty nine Lakers 361 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,359 picks. Maybe even more so because everyone assumes the Lakers can go get free 362 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,880 agents in Dallas basically has never done that. So I mean it's right at 363 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,279 least right, it's a it's a fun angle. So I don't have a 364 00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:52,279 lot to add there. I think the Nets did great. You know, 365 00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:56,599 your B plus feel feels about right to me. I have the next one. 366 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:02,359 This is the James Wiseman to Detroit super trade, which, as you 367 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,920 noted in your initial write up, is really two separate ones, but it 368 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,160 involves the Hawks, Pistons, Warriors, and Blazers. I think it became 369 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,559 one. By the way, I'm not yeah, so I think it was 370 00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:15,799 reported to severyones, but I think it was folded into one just giant as 371 00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:19,319 mega deal. So that's how we're looking at it. And and essentially the 372 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,160 principles here are the Hawks are getting City Bay, the Pistons got James Wiseman, 373 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,119 the Warriors got Gary Payton the second and some second round picks, and 374 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,000 the Blazers got Kevin Knox and a whole bunch of second round picks. Five. 375 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:34,480 So the let's you know, get out of the get the small stuff 376 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,000 out of the way first. Sadiqu Bay has been pretty good for the Hawks. 377 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:40,359 They needed three point shooting. He's hit a ton of threes. He 378 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,519 hit more than half of his threes so far with the team. They've won 379 00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:45,960 his minutes, which is just like, yeah, if you have a guy 380 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,359 that's hitting half of his threes of decent volume, chances are you're gonna win 381 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,960 those minutes. If it's if he's not playing a ton, he's not that 382 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,880 good of a shooter. He's a career thirty six percent guy. I think 383 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,559 he can be better than that. I think he still has defense upside, 384 00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:03,160 So that's you know, considering what Atlanta gave up. Totally fine if he 385 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,519 if they end up paying him like DeAndre Hunter, which is apparently part of 386 00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:10,160 the reason Detroit wanted to move off of him, because he was going to 387 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:15,279 have pretty wild extension demands in the neighborhood of like ninety million. Not great, 388 00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:18,440 but it's not like he gave up a ton again, So that's a 389 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,079 bee for the Hawks for me, let's get to let's just do wise with 390 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,480 the Wiseman's side of it next. I think we disagree on this a little 391 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,720 bit earlier based on your initial grade. I gave Detroit a B plus and 392 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:33,640 it has nothing to do with Wiseman looking really good with the Pistons once now 393 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,119 that he's free of the Warriors and their two timelines and short short leashes and 394 00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:44,519 sort of failure to accept his mistakes, like he's just kind of the same 395 00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:48,720 guy, makes tons of mistakes, can't catch the basketball, will never high 396 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,640 point a rebound, has not yet, has yet to do it, And 397 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,480 all the time I've watched him slow to rotate somehow shrinks when he can test 398 00:24:56,519 --> 00:25:02,200 shots and is not a massive human that's super athletic. All of a sudden, 399 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,119 when he has to go up and contest in traffic, all these other 400 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,319 all these problems are still there. I still give Detroit to B plus because 401 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,960 Wiseman is just the type of bylow whatever you want to call him, lottery 402 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,119 ticket, you know, high risk, high ceiling, low floor type of 403 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,519 talent that you should just be in the business of trying to acquire if you 404 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,160 have the worst record in the league. And I guess me, feeling good 405 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:33,680 about the Pistons getting Wiseman requires that I don't care that about the positional overlap, 406 00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:37,960 because you know, Jalen durn Marvin Bagley, if you want to throw 407 00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:45,480 him in there, who just should You're so like, yeah, there's overlap. 408 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:51,799 But so the worst case scenario is that several of those guys become really 409 00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:55,039 good and you have to figure out what to do with playing time or trading 410 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:56,640 some of them. That seems like a great problem, and I think it's 411 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:02,720 a problem Detroit should hope it runs into because otherwise, you know, we're 412 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,160 not going to acquire this like lottery ticket guy, because we already have centers. 413 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,319 One of them is a teenager. We're pretty sure he's gonna be No, 414 00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:11,519 you can't know anything about Jalen during Yet you have to just stockpile high 415 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:17,279 upside guys the greatest extent possible. So that's my analysis the Wiseman trade. 416 00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:21,079 He might stuck forever, but he might be good, and Detroit should be 417 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,240 willing to take that risk. The Warriors I killed him. Do you have 418 00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:29,359 anything on those two teams? On Atlanta or Detroit before I power through the 419 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,960 other two, I would I'd be I'm rock solid with an Atlanta B plus. 420 00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:34,119 I mean, they gave up a lot of second rounders, but to 421 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,480 deck Bay, like you said, has been good. I don't know what 422 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:38,960 this implies about or they will want to pay him. I do think Detroit 423 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,200 sort of too early. I'm like, Okay, he wants DeAndre Hunter money, 424 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,400 but he's only extension eligible like this, he's not a restricted. He's 425 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,799 not even extension eligible, right, yeah, like the free agency next next 426 00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:52,799 summer. Yeah. So, I mean, to get out in front of 427 00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:56,000 that was fine, But just to decide not so. I liked it for 428 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,519 Atlanta overall, to just decide that you didn't want to be in the Sadique 429 00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:03,480 Bay business is Detroit right now? Though for another big That's what still gives 430 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,839 me pause. Wiseman. I just banked on him not playing well in Detroit, 431 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,640 especially given the confines of their offense. He's definitely been better than I've 432 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,039 expected, and from admittedly what little life set of him in Detroit so far. 433 00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:19,000 But like that being said, is just it's not just about okay, 434 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,960 and if Jalen Durn's hurt at the moment, like you can find minutes for 435 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:26,720 him. I get the upside play. I just don't understand what it says 436 00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:30,480 about the theory of Detroit's roster. And you had Troy Troy Weaver excuse me, 437 00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:34,079 talking about, well, Milwaukee plays two biggs and Cleveland plays two biggs 438 00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:40,359 and just you know, presumably Las Jackson pointed this out on the Detroit Badboys 439 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,400 podcast. You would like one of those two bigs to be able to play 440 00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:47,440 lockdown defense, which neither Wiseman nor Durn do right now, I think Durn's 441 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,519 potential, Yeah, there's definitely through the roof there when you look at his 442 00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:55,359 mobility. But I just I don't get it. And you know the fact 443 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,119 that Whiston's playing well or showing flashes, now, okay, great, Like 444 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,079 what's gonna happen when I mean, like just long term between him and Duran 445 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:03,720 there it feels like it's going to come to a head. And look, 446 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,039 you got to make a decision on him pretty soon because he's extension knowledgeable this 447 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,119 year. You shouldn't give him one. Although they gave Marvin Bagley a contract 448 00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:17,400 for three years all guaranteed. But aren't you k I can't tell you guys 449 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,079 fuck. I don't know if you mean we suck or if we fuck. 450 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,640 And that's a compliment. I'm gonna take it as a compliment. Yeah, 451 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:29,359 But I just I don't I get it from a talent perspective for Detroit, 452 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,240 I just don't love, as I said, what it necessarily infers about the 453 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:38,119 direction or lack of vision with how they want to flesh out this roster. 454 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:47,759 Is there is there a package that's so it's not necessarily what Detroit gave up. 455 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,039 It's not so much that they essentially gave up Bay to get Wiseman. 456 00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:55,000 It's just the idea for you that because I'm not saying like we could we 457 00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:57,720 could just disagree. I don't and who the fuck knows who's right? Like 458 00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:00,480 it's going to take three years figure that out. But like, is it 459 00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:04,839 just the fact that it's the positional thing, and it's like what what it 460 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,160 says about? Because to me, I would take Weaver's comments as like this 461 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,960 is just a substitute for what I want to say, which is we're pretty 462 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,799 bad and we're taking home run swings on guys that we might and it might 463 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:19,279 be a strikeout. Like that's because he can't say that. He can't say 464 00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:23,400 or that we're not confident that Durn's going to be great because we can't be. 465 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,400 But like that has to be how they feel. Is it just that 466 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,640 there's too many centers here and it's hard to envision these, you know, 467 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,680 any two pull any two of these working out like long term together? Is 468 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,359 that? Is that like the hang up? Yes? And then also just 469 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,759 like so you kept Bogdanovich, which if the offers sucked them all for it, 470 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,759 Like I don't think he hurts your development, but are you and he 471 00:29:44,839 --> 00:29:48,720 kept Alec Burks as well? Are you super committed to winning next year? 472 00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:52,119 And like that also worries me, But then it runs counter to what you 473 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,400 just did with the Wiseman trade, and so yes, we need to let 474 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,279 it play out. And the opportunity cost was not steep. I do think 475 00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:00,599 it was just a little or that they decided, hey, we're done being 476 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,720 in the sadiqu Bay business. They just thought he was never gonna be maybe 477 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,759 the quintessential three D wing and might have been better suited with the role that 478 00:30:07,759 --> 00:30:12,720 he's going to have an Atlanta. Okay, fine, but I thought that 479 00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,640 was an odd decision to make at the time. But my biggest concern is, 480 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,519 just as you outlaid, I don't understand like what the vision is for 481 00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:22,000 this roster. And if it's yeah, we suck, We're taking as many 482 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,240 swings as possible, you still have to kind of juggle those swings in tandem 483 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:27,880 with one another at some point, and so I'm more interested to see what 484 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,160 this kind of means for next season, especially when like okay, Kade will 485 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,839 be available at that point presumably, and then maybe it helps that Jay and 486 00:30:34,839 --> 00:30:41,160 Ivy will be another year deeper into his development. I just I don't necessarily 487 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:45,119 understand the Pistons. They just seem caught in this weird space, and for 488 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,119 a team that has some top end prospects on the roster, I would like 489 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,279 to feel better about their direction or have more clarification on it than I actually 490 00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:56,279 you But hey, look, maybe Wiseman and Durhan can end up playing together, 491 00:30:56,559 --> 00:31:03,039 or they're both just there and it's working, and Wiseman rehabilitates his value 492 00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:07,519 or establishes any value whatsoever over the long term, I would root for that. 493 00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:10,359 I don't want to see players fail. I just this was not the 494 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,240 team for me that I thought made sense as a as a longer term Wiseman 495 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,640 destination, I think too, just to argue against myself, like zooming all 496 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:25,680 the way out. It's kind of a wild move to consolidate your young talent 497 00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:30,559 at a position center that just doesn't really matter anymore or matters way less than 498 00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:33,079 it used to. Like, yeah, if you had like Brooklyn has a 499 00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:36,559 million wings or you know that kind of thing, just oh we got we 500 00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:40,279 got four centers that can basically only play center, and someone like Vagley sort 501 00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:44,079 of can't play center or power forward. So it's just like, this is 502 00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:48,960 not the place to have like a surplus of guys that you need to that 503 00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:52,359 you're going to one pay and two need to get on the floor, just 504 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,720 because the devaluation of the center just continues unless you're a superstar MVP candidate. 505 00:31:56,799 --> 00:32:02,200 So the Blazer side is kind of to me, it's men. You know, 506 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,960 we've basically given up Gary Payton the second for Kevin Knox and a bunch 507 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:12,200 of second rounders. And I cribbed this from you and your an initial evaluation, 508 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,759 which I thought was right, which is that you kind of if you 509 00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:17,839 just look at this on its own, that's just paying Peyton in free agency 510 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,359 and moving him for some seconds is kind of like, what was the point 511 00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:24,160 of all this even if he was hurt, which is another aspect to this 512 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,720 deal. But the Blazers added other guys that can kind of approximate what Peyton 513 00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:31,680 did, and one of them matist Table I think, as who shot it 514 00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:36,359 really well. Who knows if that's going to sustain. But if you're talking 515 00:32:36,359 --> 00:32:38,920 about which of which of these defense first guys would you rather have for the 516 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,519 next couple of years, or maybe Tyble still is ahead of Payton because of 517 00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:46,880 the age difference, because of the length, because of you know, the 518 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,920 possibility that Tyble's going to shoot it more, shoot it more accurately. Like 519 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,839 I don't know, Peyton took a while to become someone that you didn't just 520 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,519 totally ignore on the perimeter. I think he's, you know, and really 521 00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:02,119 the sample of him being a good enough shooter to avoid that treatment is pretty 522 00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:07,119 small still the year plus, So I mean I gave the Blazers a B 523 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:14,039 minus just because in totality, I don't really feel like they hurt themselves that 524 00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:16,279 much. And if Tywill is someone they end up keeping at a reasonable deal, 525 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,079 maybe cheaper than they were going to be on the hook for for Peyton, 526 00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:23,079 that's totally fine. The Warriors, I kind of killed them, and 527 00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:28,319 it's unfair because I didn't ding the Suns for Durant being hurt, and I 528 00:33:28,359 --> 00:33:31,440 am essentially or at least partially dinging the Warriors for Peyton being hurt. That's 529 00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:35,359 kind of a messy thing to talk about because we don't we don't know what 530 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,960 Portland knew, We don't know what the Warriors should have known. But ultimately 531 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,640 the Warriors admitted failure. They've drafted the wrong guy. They traded James Wiseman, 532 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,240 and they got back someone that cannot help them right now, and we 533 00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:51,799 don't know when Peyton will be able to help them. And the whole point 534 00:33:51,799 --> 00:33:55,480 of this was James Wiseman cannot help us. Gary Peyton has and we know 535 00:33:55,799 --> 00:34:00,720 can except he's hurt. And so it was just you've given up this this 536 00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:05,559 asset that you held on too for too long, and you traded it for 537 00:34:05,599 --> 00:34:08,679 something that is basically a zero. You're going to save a little bit of 538 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,440 money, but you know, that's just the Warriors spend so much that I 539 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,840 don't know how much, you know, tens of millions of luxury tax savings 540 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:22,280 really matters. If Peyton gets healthy and contributes to the Warriors finally figuring it 541 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,400 out this season, I guess my evaluation would change. And I think, 542 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,880 certainly he does seem like someone that will be valuable next year and the year 543 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,760 after. But it's just such a rough it's a rough. Look you you 544 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,599 waited too long, you gave up Wiseman, and you're just not You're not 545 00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:42,760 better. You're certainly not better in terms of your you know, five year 546 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,039 ceiling. I don't know if there was a scenario or Wiseman was going to 547 00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:50,280 be on the team that long, even into a second contract, but it's 548 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,119 just it hasn't. The one thing the Warriors needed was short term help and 549 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:57,199 they don't have it. So I mean it's I gave him a D plus, 550 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,519 even if like incomplete might be a fair grade if you didn't want to, 551 00:35:00,639 --> 00:35:05,440 you know, just pass judgment right away. I gave me seeing I'd 552 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:13,400 probably stick with it. You can't criticize them for trading Wiseman for the return 553 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,599 that they did at this time, but you can absolutely criticize them for bag 554 00:35:15,639 --> 00:35:20,400 holding on Wiseman, which they were pearl clutching, which they did. And 555 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,400 I think that's the hardest thing to reconcile and then to not understand fully what 556 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,199 you were getting. And Gary Payton a second with his injury, like there's 557 00:35:28,199 --> 00:35:30,679 a lack of I think due diligence on their part. I just can't believe 558 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:37,039 that the Blazers withheld information to point like where they're hiding confidential health reports there 559 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,360 so and like the Warriors also kind of knew that Gary Payton was dealing with 560 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,000 injuries last year, albeit I think it was a separate one. He's dealing 561 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,559 with a wrist injury right or elbow during the playoffs, whatever it was. 562 00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:52,440 So I just it's not a great look for them, but you could lean 563 00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:54,960 more towards incomplete. I think a straight sea is fine because the value relative 564 00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:00,000 to where Wiseman was, it's acceptable. It never should have got to this 565 00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:04,320 low before you actually moved him. There was more sheen on him a year 566 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,760 a year and a half ago, when you kind of understood that, Okay, 567 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,920 this is not going to work out, and so for them to just 568 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,280 be you know, they won the title last year, so how much does 569 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,920 this really matter? But what would they be in a much better position this 570 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,320 year next year? And they moved Washman Tuner absolutely, and I think it's 571 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,199 fair to dig them for that. I wonder, like, because it's you 572 00:36:22,199 --> 00:36:25,559 know, right, I don't think the Blazers did anything, you know, 573 00:36:27,559 --> 00:36:31,679 really suspect, but like all the Warriors and presumably players front office, they 574 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,000 like I imagine they're still in contact with Peyton like he was on the team 575 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,119 all last year, because do you think there was a phone call where like 576 00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:42,840 Bob Meyers is talking to Peyton's agent or you know, Steph Curry's talking to 577 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,239 Peyton. They're like are you good? Like? And Payton wants to be 578 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,199 on the Warrior so bad that he's like one hundred percent, I'll be ready 579 00:36:49,199 --> 00:36:52,039 to go day one. Get me over there. Like there's just a lot 580 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:57,320 of the disconnect is weird given the relationship between the parties involved. So you 581 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,159 know, I don't know. I don't know how how that factors and the 582 00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:01,960 other thing that kind of if you're a Warriors fan, I think maybe you 583 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:07,400 might be a little annoyed by is you could have just resigned Peyton, you 584 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,119 know, and then you can trade Wiseman for something else. You probably don't 585 00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:13,440 have de Vincenzo, who's been really good for them, who they're just gonna 586 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,760 lose in free agency this year this summer anyway. But but it just require 587 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:22,360 him for Moses Moody at nice you're a trade deadline er. That's perfect, 588 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,639 that's exactly what's gonna happen. But you just the idea that you could have 589 00:37:24,679 --> 00:37:29,519 had. You could have had Peyton if you wanted to, and just chose 590 00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:30,440 not to. And now, oh yeah, we change our minds, like 591 00:37:30,519 --> 00:37:34,599 we're gonna we're gonna give up our number two overall pick for him. Kind 592 00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,599 of a kind of a tough, tough turn of events. I do think 593 00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:40,239 our impressions have the potential to really brighten up. If Gary Payton in the 594 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,000 second which doesn't seem like he will be, but if he's healthy playing in 595 00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:46,519 the postseason, because he becomes he's like everything they need. He's smaller, 596 00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:51,000 but like he defends like a bigger wing. Yep. And they need defense. 597 00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:52,599 I mean they just their defense, especially on the road, has been 598 00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:55,480 I mean it's one of the worst defenses in the league. And and just 599 00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:01,440 you can't your defense might not be great. But if Gary Payton the second 600 00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:05,599 is on the floor, it's gonna be disruptive and like at least and he's 601 00:38:05,599 --> 00:38:07,960 gonna play really hard and he's not gonna take plays off or screw up or 602 00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:12,000 it's like just get him out there and he might, like you said, 603 00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:15,679 he might really just address the most pressing need for this team. But who 604 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:20,360 knows, right, we don't know when he's gonna play. This was very 605 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,679 instructive. Do you want to take us out of here? Yeah, although 606 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,400 like so ultimately I don't think our opinions have changed a whole lot on any 607 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,239 of these, and that has mostly to do with the sample and the fact 608 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:31,639 that a lot of these were designed than you were not saying that at the 609 00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:36,159 top of the podcast. Yeah, you guys would just go read Dan's live 610 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,880 grades from a month ago, and you're pretty much gonna get the justices. 611 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,760 Okay, everybody thinks for listening, anybody that had comments and questions. We 612 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,320 appreciate it. If you are not already, please follow us on our socials 613 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,920 at Hardwood Knocks on Twitter and TikTok at Hardwood on Shore Knocks on Instagram. 614 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:57,519 Subscribe on YouTube, make sure you tell your friends and enemies great review, 615 00:38:57,559 --> 00:39:01,559 subscribe everyplace else, and as all is undiscussed, yet again, both players 616 00:39:01,559 --> 00:39:06,480 that we love to shout out. Shouts to Frank Milikina and apologies to Jared Allen