You're listening to k I am sixty on demand. Brett, Welcome to the
Jesus Christ Show. Hello Jesus, how are you? I am well,
Brett? How are you? I'm pretty good? Okay, good to hear,
and you're very chipper for this time of day. Well, I work
nice. Oh excellent. So you're coming, you're coming down, ending your
day? Coming down? Yeah? How can I help you? All?
Right? Well, I have a would you consider the God of the Bible
good? Well? Yes, well I'm kind of partial to that. I
assume you would have thought that I'd answer that it would be weird for this
show. Not Yeah. The question is when an atheist will point to something
in the Bible and say that that is a sign of God's immorality, that
is a sign of God being evil. Yes, then they will say that
you simply cannot judge God. But by saying that God is good, you
are also making a judgment absolutely absolutely, and that would be that would be
a fallacy. Um, if the Christian to put themselves in that kind of
argumentation, Um, it's it's it's not the proper way to look at it.
Then how can you tell that God is good? Okay? Well,
there's a couple of things going on here. First, when whenever you are
in a situation like this, defining your terms is important. So um,
defining what judgment is is important because there is a difference between judgment. You're
the same way, Brett, You're exactly the same way. If I came
up to you and I said I don't like the way you did X,
Y and Z, you'd say, oh, you know what, I don't
want you to judge me. But if I came up to you and said,
wow, that was really great that what you did, Brett, you
wouldn't go, I don't want you to judge me. So it's it's it's
important to understand what judgment means in that context. When scripture talks about uh,
well, scripture, when it talks about thou shalt not judge, lest
ye be judged, it's talking about um thinking that you're better than somebody,
or being condescending in a way that you aren't looking or taking an account of
things that you do in life. If you're merely looking outwardly constantly at what
everyone else does, it's not about justice. Of course, you're to judge.
Christians should judge. Everyone should judge I'm not saying the judgment is wrong.
I'm saying, if you're telling the atheists that they can not judge judge
God bad, then you can also not call him good. Yes, which
brings me to my second points. That was just about defining the term about
judgment what judgment is. Secondly, there's a qualifier that's missing in that statement
from the Christian which is why I have a problem with it, and that
is that there are certain things you can't judge God above God. Going back
to my definition about being outside of the judgment, So if you're constantly judging
others and you're not looking at yourself, there's a problem. No, I'm
saying with m let's let's take it. It's not a personal thing. That
we're looking at the greater theological or philosophical ramifications of that statement. So in
this case, somebody's saying you can't judge God is not actually actually correct.
That's that's not correct. You can't oversee judgment upon God. Man is not
high enough. You can't actually enforce that judge exactly. So really what you're
doing is you can make observations about God and you can see those things in
God, but you can't judge God's decisions. So that's what the statement needs.
It needs more qualifiers to understand what kind of judgment you're doing. You
can't sit in judgment of God. So for God did actually exist, yes,
then you could not. He would have all the powers, so you
could not actually say You could say that he was wrong all you wanted,
but it wouldn't matter exactly if it because God, by God by definition,
is a transcendent, So if it trans in that respect, I think,
well that's it. It's you know, a little anthropomorphic on your part if
you want to apply those human attributes and you want to say that seems this
way to you, but really you're still have to pull it down to a
human element. A mob boss is just a human who thinks he's better than
a human. God is better than human. So I'm holding power over you.
You cannot. They are just doing whatever they feel like. Yeah,
but there's no choice in the matter. No, but there's a righteousness to
it. A mob boss has their own wants. Well, because God is
justice. There's a difference. Now you're trying to parse the fact that there
are human beings that abuse that God is justice. I'm sorry, what makes
you think that God is justice. Well, the show is that Jesus Christ
show we'd come from the generic Judeo Christian precept. You got to give me
that one a little bit. You gotta give me that one. I mean,
the show, it pretty much lays it out in the in the name
there, it's right there for everyone to see. I'm going to come from.
I'm going to tell you that there are things not only in scripture,
but outside of scripture that point to the justice and the love of God.
As a matter of fact, Brett, you telling me that there are things
that are good or bad in this world comes from where? Why do you
judge what's good or bad? Why do you what do you say something's good
or something's bad in life? For you? Things which are harmful and things
that are beneficial. No, no, no, no, no, no
no no. That's that's hedonism. You don't believe that because they're who no,
no, no, not heathenism, sir, not hedonism. If I
slam my hand, this idea that we can only judge things wrong because there's
some kind of ultimate standard we're judging against is silly. Okay. If you
tell me my hand in a card door that hurts, okay, But I'm
not seeing some kind of ultimate standard of non hurt. Okay, so hurt.
So everything that hurts is bad depending on how depending on how it goes
is everything? Is everything that causes pain bad? Is everything that causes pleasure
good? No? Okay? So that's a that's a lousy standard. Wouldn't
you say? I did not say that, sir? Okay? So is
pleasure good? Pleasure can be good, It can can be good. So
when does pleasure become So when does pleasure become bad? When it becomes harmful
to you? And what is harm there? If you just sit there having
pleasure all day long? And what is harm if you just sit there with
just pleasure all day long and start to ignore things that you need, start
to ignore things that are more beneficial towards you? Says who says who?
Well? Says reality? Says reality? In what context? Says who?
What? Do you? You're You're using circular reasoning as you go back and
say, well, if it's pleasure but only pleasure sometimes, sir, if
you sit there shooting up on drugs all day long, you will feel pleasure,
but at the same time you're doing so you get damage. To your
body. What if you what if you shoot up? What if you shoot
up only partial during the day, so maybe six hours and you're still doing
damage to your body. That's sort of your decision. What kind of damage?
Now, if you cut open a person, does that cause damage to
them? Technically? Yes, it depends on what your what your point is,
That's That's what I'm saying, is that you keep adding a quality fire
to it. So there is no standard for what is good or bad.
You have to keep judging whether it's good or bad based on what you think
is good or bad, or pleasurable or harmful. There is no universal what
is pleasurable or harmful unless you're the one that's You kind of keep saying,
well, I deem this pleasurable, I deem this harmful. But who does
that? Society? We get together into some gotchas. So it's so it's
the society that decides what's good and bad. Societies generally do yes, okay.
Are there societies that do things that are bad? Yes? Okay,
then who judges that society the people in that society, No, because they're
the ones doing it bad. They didn't, you know, not see Germany
didn't self regulate. It does not okay, And that so that society,
that society did not self regulate, who regulated them into the greater society of
the world. I see. So as long as the world sees it as
okay, then it's okay. I cannot give you an ultimate stand. No
you can't. That's the point, Bread, That's what I want you to
say. You're obviously not stupid, so I want you to see that all
you do is push it upon another chain link, another chain link, because
this infinite regression of maybe this, maybe that, and maybe this, and
that's not how it works. Eventually you have to get to a place outside
of that society to make that judgment. Canon a standard measuring rod, because
you can't just say an inches and inches an inch. Somebody has to agree
on that, and it has to be outside of the inch. The measurement
tool can't be the ultimate measuring tool because it's temporal. It's not it's not
infinite, and that's what you're looking for, that's what you need. That
is what defines it. And we could have been here all day, Brett,
and you would have had to come up with one more reason. Whereas
the theist doesn't it stops a god, God alone, the transcendent lawgiver who
is always in the law. Wannie, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Good morning, Jesus. I have a question for you, Okay. I
rather thought called the appointment with you always, and it was talking about the
established and it's not that the established. The establish originally was established on the
new cycles, and that the reason that it was tenuous was because of commercial
enterprise, because of because of what commercial enterprise that the merchant wanted to establish
a certain day, like to say, oh gotcha, Okay, well,
no, that's that's falls. Now. Your phone's a little little muddy there.
So I'm gonna put you on whole because it's kind of hard to understand,
and I'm guessing that the listeners having a hard time understanding. So essentially
you're asking about the Sabbath and that the Sabbath was changed. No, the
Sabbath was established in Genesis chapter two, verse two, and it says by
the seventh day God completed his work with which his hands had done, and
he rested on the seventh day from all of his work which he had done.
There's the first sign of the Sabbath. Sabbath is the Hebrew word shabat
by the word for sabbath and the Greek word sabbaton. They both mean to
rest from labor. That's what it means. So that's where it comes from.
And you find it also in the Ten Commandments. You see it in
Exodus twenty eight through eleven. But a lot of people get the two confused
between the Sabbath, which is Saturday, and they get that confused with the
Christian day of rest after the Resurrection, which is Sunday. Okay, it's
referred to as the Lord's Day, So the Sabbath is still on Saturday.
The Lord's Day is on Sunday. The majority of Christians practice their faith and
rest and go to church and all of that on Sunday, the Lord's Day,
not Sabbath. Now we're there there changes in calendars and things like that
throughout the years, yes, but the Sabbath is still considered the last day
of the week. It's not a particular it's not a particular day per se.
It's the last day of the week. And that's you know, that's
important because people get caught up in in the Sabbath and start almost worshiping it
like as if the Sabbath is the thing to worship. But if you remember
when I was asked about the Sabbath in scripture, I said that Sabbath was
made for man, not man for the Sabbath. And also look up Colossians
chapter two, verse sixteen. Therefore, let no one act as your judge
in regard to the food or drink, or in respect to a festival or
a new moon or a Sabbath day. Meaning don't be judged by those that
say that you have to worship this way, or you have to worship on
that day, or any of those things. The important part of the Sabbath
is that you stop that there's one day that you stop, you rest,
you communion with God. You should be doing that throughout the week as well,
but have that specific time to set that apart, to do that and
make it important in your life, Lonnie, that's the key, That is
what's most important. Don't get lost in just the strict tradition of things,
because sometimes traditions start becoming idols. People start worshiping those traditions rather than the
Word of God. And really it's about you taking that time. You having
the time of rest, you having time with God and stopping from working.
That's the most important thing to have, that time away from work, that
downtime. Mens it Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Jesus hi hi.
Um. My question is in regard to the whole concepts of God. Okay,
um my pinks my Christian pastors, and so I've been raised with the
Christian religion my whole life. I don't necessarily agree with most applications to it.
I think a lot of the teachings that you've brought I agree with,
but when it comes to the institution of the church itself, I have a
lot of disagreements with their approach. Okay. The question that I have regarding
God is if God is of love and forgiveness and understanding and compassion, Ay,
why is that not reflected in the Christian religion? And by why would
there be such things as how or even sin for that matter? If if
God was you know, the ultimate of forgiveness and understanding. Okay, Well
you asked kind of four questions in there. So let's get to as minimum
as we can, and keep in mind that it's very difficult as you're a
PK and PK's pastors kids often have a difficult time because reconciling between seeing their
parents as humans and then the words that have to be taught as well.
If you imagine Vincent, the it's been said by a chief of police that
the judicial system of the United States is perfect save for one problem, and
that is that it has to be run by human being. That is exactly
the same problem with the church. You're dealing with perfection, but yet those
that are preaching or teaching it are imperfect. However, your concept or your
definition is what's at the root of your concern. It's how you define these
things is what you have a problem with. You have you love, forgiveness,
Hell, it's the way you define them that causes the problem, not
having them in themselves, because forgiveness is different than reconciliation. And love isn't
just ignoring the stupid things people do and giving them a hug, which is
what most people think when they think of love. They go, well,
love is just kind of ignoring all the bad stuff and just being nice to
them. That's not love at all. And so really your understanding of those
things plays a big part. Hell. For instance, Vincent, what what
kind of music do you hate that you just can't stand probably country Western.
Okay. You know what the funny thing is is that I asked this question
on occasion and that's one of the top two. So let's say in country
Western. You don't like country Western, so you don't want to listen to
it for a half hour, do you? You don't want to listen to
it for a full day? Do you right? You wouldn't want to be
forced to listen to it for a year, would you right? Okay,
So if I forced you to listen to country music for an eternity, that
would be hell because you don't want to it. You don't want it,
you want no part of it, and therefore why would you want to experience
it forever? Heaven? All heaven is and I say all because some people
like to whittle it down as if this is a negative. All heaven is
is communion and worship eternally with the Father. If you don't want to love
Him and serve him for seventy eighty ninety measly years on earth, God will
not force you to do that for eternity. So he allows you and send
you to allows you to make a choice here on earth to not be with
Him for eternity, and it's called hell to not be but eternity from God.
And the thing that people don't get wrapped their heads around, Vincent is
that you think you don't want God, and this isn't you, particularly the
Greater You think they don't want God. Yet they don't know that God even
works in their life even if they reject Him. On Earth, God is
still sustaining this planet, so they so they are getting all the benefits of
God even if they don't know it, or at least part of those benefits,
and in hell they won't have any of them. It's like the petulant
child going, you know what, I hate my parents. I just want
to move, and then realizing now they're on the streets, there's no roof
over their head, there's no one guiding them, there's no one giving them
love. And now they understand the power of it, but can't go back
because the decision is so respected by God that humans have the ability to make
that decision, that it is a final and eternal decision at the point of
death. So that's what hell is, is somebody truly experiencing for eternity the
eternal decision they made. That's it it's a respect factor. It's not an
unloving or an unjust God. It's a very loving and very just God who
says I respect you, I love you. Love can only exist by mutual
respect. Love can only exist if I give you a choice not to love,
because forced love is rape. Forcing somebody to give themselves to you,
to physically give themselves to you, to be a part of your life,
to be to give what you want of a situation is wrong and it's evil,
and God can't and won't do it. He allows humans to make the
conscious, educated choice to reject him for all of eternity. But it's like
rejecting water. When you're in a desert. You're going to know how much
you neat water. And all these people that you come across in life that
go, oh, I don't drink water because I hate the taste, Well,
your body needs it and it's not to you really understand that you're getting
water in Jews, or you're getting water even in Sodas. You're getting water
little bits here and there, that your body stays hydrated, that you're still
getting that water, just like you're still being sustained. Even if you're an
atheist on Earth but when you're in hell, it's like being in the desert
without water. There you realize the necessity of it, uh, in the
consequence of that decision in a more real way, And that's not lacking love
in any way, shape or form. Well, Jesus, I don't disagree
with you on any point, especially in terms of understanding that there's no way
around God's involvement on this earth and with every cent team being that inhabits this
um. But with God's design, like you said, also comes choice.
And what I what I have a hard time understanding is that choice. You
know, Um, it's very cut and dry when it comes to biblical principles.
You know, if you don't follow this, if you don't follow that,
you're going to go to hell. And I don't necessarily agree with that.
I think there are a lot of really really good people on this earth.
Wa wa wa wa? Whoa good? What does that mean? By
what? By what standard? Is somebody good? By your standard? How
could you even say that somebody's good vincent? By who? Is that a
cultural statement that the culture says that they're good or the populace says they're good?
Viewpoint? I think that intentions inherently can be good? But by what
standard, biblical standard? Thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not lie,
that shalt not commit adultery? By what standard do you say someone's good?
M Well, it couldn't be only biblical, although a lot of those biblical
principles are very sound. You know, Um, of course you shouldn't kill
people, and you shouldn't do you think society should decide what good, what's
good and what's bad? Not necessarily because society is soluble. Yes, So
where do you get the standard of good? Is that just the things that
you like? No, not necessarily, because it's not even taste. I
think that humans inherently and where does that inherent knowledge come from? Okay,
so why is it? This is what gets me vincent. You will sit
there reasonably, and I love that you're even bringing these things up and that
you're questioning it. That's a good thing. Some churches may not think that,
but I think that's a good thing. The problem lies in that you're
picking and choosing it that The question is not how come this is the only
way to be saved? The question is why is there any way to be
saved? Because it's undeserving. Your standard of good comes from God. Period.
There is not one society on the planet, not even a cannibalistic society.
There's not one society that believes it's okay to murder, not one.
There's not one society on this planet that believes it's okay to steal. Do
you know that even a thief doesn't believe it it's okay to steal. If
you try and steal from them, they'll tell you that they supersede that in
their own mind, that it's that it's okay for them for whatever reason.
I'm poor, or the world has handed me a bad you know, go
of it, or whatever it is. They rationalize it, but no one
believes it's okay. It is inherent. It's inherent in human beings. They
know that these things are wrong because God placed that in their heart, that
knowledge of good and evil and understanding the two, so that they could make
a choice. They choose to do evil. They choose to do things that
are wrong, like they choose to go to hell. If if you're in
a burning building, vincent and the fire department comes in and they cut a
hole that is in the shape of a square, are you gonna argue with
them that you rather go out a circle, that you don't think it's fair
that they make you go out of a square, and that you don't want
that kind of salvation. It's ridiculous. It's not a matter of people.
People get bent out of shape, Vincent because they don't want to give up
what they don't want to give up. They don't want to be accountable,
they don't want to be held accountable, and they don't want anything in their
life that is a half to so they continue to reject God. And there
are other religions out there, and there are counterfeits, and there are all
these things. But this is the Jesus Christ Show, so you kind of
knew what you're getting into as far as what side I'm going to land on.
But scripture says these things not to paint you into a corner, Vincent,
not to make you feel boxed in, but it gives you an out,
and people don't do that. Wow, I'd really like to go out
my window instead of a door. And how come houses and structural engineering and
architects design things with doors. I want a porthole in the top of the
house because it's not efficient and there's a point where you have to trust that
God created things because it is the best way to the best possible world,
which is heaven. But earth is not the best possible world, and that
the fact that there's any way to salvation is the miracle, not that it
just happens to be via my death. And now you get sides and teams
going, oh, well, I don't that's not what I believe, that's
not what I was raised with. It doesn't matter. It's about truth.
That's what should be at the center of it. Not a particular team,
not Christians versus this group. Not what is the truth? And when you're
led to that truth, then accept it or reject it and receive the blessings
or the consequences sal Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. I'm curious as to
how you can impute divinity or even reliability to a set of documents that were
cobbled together centuries after they were written. Never mind the fact that they were
written in some cases, in many cases decades after the events that they describe.
But I'm really troubled by the fact that they were put together. Talking
about the apocryp full books of the Bible that aren't accepted into the cannon.
It seems to me that it's a it's it's a hitting this kind of thing.
You know, you pick one, you don't pick another, and then
you and in the end say well, this is what the word of God
is. I don't buy it. No, I don't suppose you do.
And it's a it's a noble question. Indeed, what I will say,
Sal, is that you've asked more than one question. So I'll address as
much of it as I can, because they're all they're all important in their
own right, but they've kind of all deal with different answers. So I
will say this for the sake of time. If you look at any of
history, you've any work of antiquity, you've articulated the same thing. So
that would you'd have to discount any work of history, because you know,
even Homer's Iliad, I think there's four hundred copies, Caesar's Gaelic Wars,
you've got ten copies, all written after the fact. That's the way history
happens, Sal, It's written after the fact. So in the case,
so, scripture is not the anomaly, it's not the standout. As a
matter of fact, scripture if you're dealing with just the New Testament alone.
You have over twenty five thousand, not ten, not four hundred, twenty
five thousand whole and parts of manuscripts in there, and even building into their
entirety. You could actually reconstruct the New Testament save four about a handful of
John, the Book of John by the early church father's teachings. So it
doesn't stand up the same way as other works of antiquity. It stands out
and compared to other works of antiquity. To compare the two is silly.
When you look at history, All of history sal is written after the fact.
You could write something about JFK. You could write something about Martin Luther
King Jr. And it still holds water. There might even be more insights
that could be added to it. So I don't know that that appeal to
antiquity is the proper way to look at it. I think it actually ends
up being fallacious. Having said that, I think authorship can be seen in
many different ways, and for the sake of time all answer one that I'm
hoping that sticks with you, that is that you listen to the voice of
something. Bibliographical tests are often used to decide what scripture or what book is
written by whom. And that's not just in scripture, that's with any work
of antiquity. So in the case of scripture, you want to hear a
voice. And if you listen to scripture and the things it says, it's
not a book man would write. If he could. Man wouldn't write a
book of rules that he doesn't want to live by at all. He would
take out all the things dealing with premarital sex. He would take out all
the things dealing with the things that he doesn't want to do. Why would
he write the very book that he rebels against. It's not in the voice
of man, it's in the voice of God. K f I A M
six forty on demand